cap

none said:

preserv.co.cc

FE.o under went a recent reorganization.  The site has split so that Fan Edits remained but anything which was a straight preservation went over to the above site.

 

Thanks.

Interestingly, that site has links to two versions, an SL version and a DL version.  The SL version is 2.96 GB, and the DL version is 3.72 GB.  A SL disc can hold 4.7 GB, so I’m a little confused.  Should I download the DL version and burn it to a SL disc, or is there a reason they’re labeled this way?

Where can I find this?

Fanedit.org and Fanedit.info have nothing on it.  Interestingly, Google’s cache has a copy of a fanedit.org page (http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:TwAGaR2ZOvgJ:fanedit.org/429/+%22star+wars%22+%22flash+of+spoofs%22 ), but there’s nothing there anymore.

cap said:

That’s all for now.  More another day.

OK, it’s another day.

About the previous post: on further reflection, that “flashback to TESB” idea was pretty lame.  I still would like to get rid of Ben’s “hidden from your father” dialog, but replacing it with a flashback is not the way to do it.

Now on to new material.

 

• Continuing on the “too slow” theme discussed in my earlier post wrt the Sarlacc pit:
  
  When Leia falls off her speeder, the Imperial stormtrooper looks back.  Then when he looks forward again he realizes he’s on a collision course with a tree stump, spends a full second screaming but makes no attempt to alter course or bail out, then collides.
  
  It’s as if Lucas needs to be absolutely certain the viewer has enough time before the collision to register the fact that the trooper is now on a collision course.  I don’t know whether it’s because ROTJ was made with very young children in mind, because ROTJ was made with severely retarded very young children in mind, or because ROTJ was made with George Lucas in mind, but it was clearly made with the mindset that the viewer would not be able to follow the action if it happened at a more natural pace.
  
  The trooper should face forward and then immediately collide.  No time to scream.  Or if there is time to scream, it should be a quarter of a second at most.
  
   
• Similarly, when Wicket strikes a trooper and the trooper looks down, goes “What the…?” and then just kind of freezes for a moment.  I guess it’s to make sure the viewer has enough time to register the fact that the trooper has been surprised and distracted.  Like the viewer would be lost if Leia reacted immediately when the trooper looked away.
  
  For that matter, the trooper shouldn’t be surprised, because he has already taken a shot at Leia and Wicket.  Unless he wasn’t looking where he was shooting, he already knows the Ewok is there.  Would it be possible to reedit the sequence so that Wicket hides before the shot is fired?  Or even to eliminate that pointless blaster shot altogether?
  
  BTW, if it were still possible to make changes to ANH:R, I’d get rid of the “Only Imperial stormtroopers are so precise” line.  Imperial stormtroopers can’t shoot for shit.
  
  
  
•  

• VADER: A small Rebel force has penetrated the shield and landed on Endor.
  
  EMPEROR: Yes, I know,
  
  VADER: My son is with them.
  
  EMPEROR: Are you sure?
  
  VADER: I have felt him, my master.
  
  EMPEROR: Strange that I have not.  I wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear, Lord Vader.
  
  VADER:  They are clear, my master.
  
  EMPEROR: Then you must go to the centurion moon and wait for him.
  
  VADER: He will come to me?
  
  EMPEROR: I have foreseen it.  His compassion for you will be his undoing.  He will come to you and then you will bring him before me.
  
  VADER: As you wish.

  
  I don’t see why the Emperor would point out his own failure to sense Luke.  It would be better to skip from “I have felt him, my master” to “Then you must go…”
  
  For that matter, consider removing the explicit references to what the Emperor does foresee wrt Luke.  We don’t need a running play-by-play telling us that the Emperor does foresee this, and does not foresee that.  Tighten up the dialog a little like so:
  

  VADER: A small Rebel force has penetrated the shield and landed on Endor.
  
  EMPEROR: Yes, I know,
  
  VADER: My son is with them.
  
  EMPEROR: Are you sure?
  
  VADER: I have felt him, my master.
  
  EMPEROR: Then you must go to the centurion moon and wait for him.  His compassion for you will be his undoing.  He will come to you and then you will bring him before me.
  
  VADER: As you wish.

  
  One can imagine the thinking that led to the wordier version.  “We can’t just have the Emperor say, ‘He will come to you.’  The viewer will be confused.  He won’t understand how the Emperor could possibly know that.  We’d better tell him that the Emperor has foreseen it.”  Lucas apparently has a very low opinion of anybody who watches his movies.
  
  BTW, the background starfield seems to be moving much too quickly.  What’s the rotational period of the Death Star, ten minutes?
  
   
• “Hurry up, will ya?  I haven’t got all day.”  *groan*
  
   
• Leia remembering her birth mother.  I’ve seen many attempts to explain away this continuity error; none of them are convincing.  Can we just skip this dialog and start the conversation with “Luke, tell me, what’s troubling you?”
  
   
• “Could you tell Luke, is that who you could tell?”  This pathetically insecure guy is not Han Solo.  You can almost see Harrison Ford thinking, “George, you can type this shit...”  Also, Carrie Fisher’s acting during this exchange is really, really terrible.  This may be my least favorite moment in the entire saga.  I hate to say “cut the whole scene,” but... cut the whole scene.
  
   
• “I see you have constructed a new lightsaber.”  That’s Ric’s line!!!
  
   
• “It is too late for me, son.”  I think this line actually undercuts the tension of the moment, and the scene would work better if we just skipped it:
  

  LUKE: I feel the conflict within you.  Let go of your hate.
  
  VADER: [gestures to guards] The Emperor will show you the true nature of the Force.  He is your master now.

  
  
   
• “An entire legion of my best troops awaits them.”  Random thought:  If those are the Emperor’s best troops, an entire legion of his worst troops must be a truly hilarious sight to behold.
  
   
• “You Rebel scum.”  Random thought: that campy line was probably the highlight of that actor’s career.
  
   
• Random thought: Imperial stormtrooper armor does not protect the wearer against blaster fire, thrown rocks, clubs wielded by teddy bears, or wooden arrows.  What, exactly, is it for?  Decoration?
  
   
• “Freeze!  Don’t move!”  I’m not going to bother listing examples of spectacular incompetence by the stormtroopers in this battle, but this one particular moment is really awful.  First of all, what are these troopers trying to do?  Take prisoners?  In the middle of this battle?  And because they can’t see Leia’s hands, they assume she must be unarmed?  What, when the Emperor ran out of Jango Fett clones he started using Greedo clones?  And how does Leia manage to take out both of them while only firing one shot?
  
   
• When Vader is searching for Luke and says, “If you will not turn to the dark side, then perhaps she will,” Luke screams “NO!!!” before attacking Vader.  If Luke is seriously trying to kill Vader, it doesn’t seem like a great idea to scream and alert him to exactly when and where the attack is coming from.  Either get rid of the scream, or edit it so that the scream is simultaneous with the start of engagement and doesn’t serve as a warning.
  
  I can picture Lucas thinking, “I’d better have Luke scream here, because if I don’t, the kind of imbecile who would watch my movie won’t understand that Luke is angry.  And I’d better give the viewer a couple of seconds to register the fact that Luke is angry before dueling actually commences, because he’ll be totally confused otherwise.”  It’s hard to believe that Lucas had that low an opinion of people who watch his movies, but there’s no other explanation for some of the creative decisions made in this film.  (Some of this may have been Marquand’s doing, too.  I dunno.)
  
   
• “Lock onto the strongest power source.  It should be the power generator.”  Is there any way we could get Ric to say that line?
  
   
• “Concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer.”  It takes two shots to take out the deflector and one out out-of-control fighter colliding with the bridge.  If that’s all it takes, it should have been done a long time ago.
  
   
• “All right.  I understand.  Fine.  When he comes back, I won’t get in the way.”  There’s Insecure Han again.  Ford must have hated this.
  
   
• Any way we could restore the original dialog?
  

  LEIA:  You know how I told you I was adopted and never knew anything about my birth parents?  I just found out last night that Luke is my twin brother.
  
  HAN:  Brother?  Wow.  That’s amazing.  Do you know who your parents were?
  
  LEIA:  Uh...  Let’s talk about that some other time.
  
  HAN:  What?  What aren’t you telling me?
  
  LEIA:  Nothing.  Don’t worry about it.
  
  HAN:  Shit.  I knew it.  I knocked up my nanny when I was nine, didn’t I?  She told me she was on the pill, but nooooo.........

• Celebrations all across the galaxy.  Just because Death Star II was destroyed and the Emperor presumed killed doesn’t mean the Empire vanished in an instant and you can celebrate the Emperor’s death on Coruscant without getting shot.
  
   
• I have to admit, I actually like Yub Nub and wouldn’t mind having it put back in.
  
   
• Hayden Christensen.  ’Nuff said.

• One final thought:  We know from the EU that the Emperor was using the Force to support the Imperial Fleet in the battle raging outside the Death Star, and his death changed the outcome of that battle.  That’s an appealing idea.  I don’t like the notion that the role of the Chosen One was to kill the Emperor who otherwise would have... died a few minutes later when the Death Star blew up.  Is there any way to hint at this idea in the movie?

doubleofive said:

That's the best argument I've heard for keeping Shaw in the ending scene, cap. Lucas' explanation that Anakin truly died when he became Darth Vader and therefore his ghost would look like Hayden is a stretch, and if its a matter of choice of what to appear as, why wouldn't Obi-wan and Yoda choose to look younger (thank goodness Lucas doesn't think like that)?

Since its technically a hallucination of Luke's or he chooses to see them as he knows them, Shaw as Anakin makes sense. He's never seen a picture of his father, how could he imagine what he looks like (and don't tell me, "The Force!")?

Thanks, 005, but I think I did not fully convey the abstraction I was trying to describe.

The way I see it, Luke is sensing the presence of Ben, Yoda, and Anakin with the Force, not with his eyes, so it doesn’t matter whether he knows what Anakin looked like as a young man.  The question is, in this moment of celebration after the destruction of Death Star II, when Luke “sees” Ben, Yoda, and Anakin, which Anakin does he see?

If Luke sees a hot-headed young man who was jerked around by the Jedi Council and the Chancellor of the Republic, then we should see Hayden Christensen.

If Luke sees a loving father who didn’t realize he was still capable of love until it overwhelmed him and he turned on his master, sacrificed his own life, and brought down the Galactic Empire to save his son, then we should see Sebastian Shaw.

oh_riginal said:

Assuming that Yoda and Obi Wan are dressed in the same clothes they had on when they died, then logically, shouldn't Vader appear the same?

 

DuTwan said:

DarkJedi3P0 said:

\

 

this would be my greatest suggestion to the ending. (obviously use ghost on Anakin Robes)

U gave me an idea, maybe it mite appear on the illustrated ROTJ list nudge nudge wink wink haha.

Original:

 

Edited with Prequel Robes:

 Hope you guys like would be great to hear your thoughts on Prequel robes on good ol' Seb

You know who’s missing from this scene?

Palpatine.  He was born again on the way down.

Bingowings said:

It would be nice if we could get him to fall backwards rather than forwards so he can continue to throw lightning at Vader on the way down:

Hell yeah!  That would be awesome.

qxx said:

I personally think the whole "Everyone gather for a photo" ending (including Obi and Yoda), is a little more than campy and a very weak ending.

I truly think ROTJ should end with Vader's pyre; either a closeup of Luke's face or the behind-the-back distance shot. Cut to credits.

It's odd, the images of ROTJ's ending (hugs, ewoks, songs and ghosts) are so embedded in my brain as 'natural' but when I think about how campy and lame it is for such an epic series to conclude, I can't help but to hope an alternative ending scene is chosen.

I say we see a mysterious cloaked figure, hear the Emperor’s evil laugh, then cut to a title card that says “THE END”, and after a couple of seconds changes to “THE END?”  

qxx said:

Let's meet in the middle, Fett in palace: Good. Fett on barge: Bad.

Fett on barge is definitely bad.  It’s not only his undignified demise that’s the problem; he’s a bumbler throughout the entire fight.

Fett in palace is not good.  At best, it’s neutral, because it’s not plagued by the same problems as his appearance at the Sarlacc pit.  Do you think his presence in the palace adds anything to the film?  If not, it’s a pointless dilution of the character and a distraction from what really matters.  Not a horrible thing, but not a good thing either.  Plus, including him in the palace might lead to the viewer expecting him in the later action sequence and wondering when he’s going to show up.  There’s no need for him; if he can be excised, do it.

Fourthed.  ROTJ doesn’t need Fett.  He’s a freelance bounty hunter, not a Jabba employee.  There’s no reason for him to hang around Jabba’s palace unless he thinks there’s a fugitive hiding there.  ROTJ doesn’t give him anything interesting to do (unless you like the burp joke), and he wouldn’t be missed at all if he could be completely excised.

BarBar Jinkx said:

Are you kidding thats one of his best lines in the entire trilogy it is just dripping with sarcasm

No, I’m not kidding, but I don’t expect everyone to agree with me.

I don’t agree that it’s one of Han’s best lines.  He has a lot of lines that are funnier or cooler.

I don’t think Han pointing out the irony makes the irony any funnier.  It can speak for itself.  Greedo says “I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time” and then gets blasted.  With the “I bet you have” line, it kind of feels like the director was afraid you’d miss the humorous irony if it weren’t mentioned out loud.

Most importantly, I don’t believe Han would say that line.  This isn’t some silly game.  He’s sitting across the table from a killer who is pointing a blaster at him and may shoot at any moment.  According to GL, Greedo waited for Han to say “Yes, I bet you have” and then shot (and missed from point blank), but Han can’t count on that.  He’s going to take Greedo out, not waste time on that pointless crack.  I see two ways the scene could reasonably play out:

GREEDO: I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time.

[BLAM!]

[GREEDO falls over, dead.]

GREEDO: I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time.

HAN: Yes, I bet you——

[BLAM!]

[HAN falls over, dead.]

BarBar Jinkx said:

 

Ady if you are still orking on your updated version of ANH:R is there any chance you could flip the scene where red leaders Starboard engine gets hit for the second time?

 

If there’s going to be a revision of ANH:R, and assuming it’s not going to be a “purist” edition, I’d like to make a suggestion about the Greedo scene.

Skip “Yes, I bet you have.”  Just have Greedo saying “I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time,” then BLAM!  I think the scene works better that way.  Give it a try.

I’ve decided to rewatch ROTJ (2004 DVD) and note some of the things that jump out at me.  Mostly I’m just going to list things that bother me.  I’m not going to try to come up with a specific fix for each of them.  Some of them are definitely unfixable.

I doubt there will be a whole lot of original or insightful content in this, but what the heck, I want to participate in the process, so I’m going to post my thoughts, and hope people will read them.

•  THREEPIO: Lando Calrissian and poor Chewbacca never returned from this awful place.

  1) It’s unnecessary exposition.  (Sometime between TESB and ROTJ, GL apparently fell in love with unnecessary exposition.)

2) It’s not even accurate exposition, as Chewbacca hasn’t been there yet.

3) This is Threepio we’re talking about, a droid who had to have his memory wiped because he couldn’t be trusted to keep his mouth shut.  I’m not sure it makes sense to let him know about Lando and Chewie’s infiltration plans before sending him into Jabba’s palace.  (The counterargument is that if you don’t tell him, and he sees Lando, he might be stupid enough to blow Lando’s cover by greeting him and asking what he’s doing there.)

My inclination is to omit this line. 


• The power droid being tortured with hot irons on its feet, and screaming in pain.  I don’t know whether this is supposed to be frightening, funny, or both, but it’s neither.
   
• Jedi Rocks with lots of CG aliens.  I prefer the Lapti Nek version of this scene.
   
• Oola in the Rancor pit.  I’m not sure why this bugs me.  Maybe it’s just because I’m more used to the other version.  I don’t think this clip adds anything to the film.  If anything, the Rancor pit is scarier if we just see her drop in and hear her scream, and don’t know what’s down there.  GL has enough restraint not to show us the actual Rancor at this point, but he does show us part of the pit, and I think it works better without that.
   
• The burping frog.  This film is rife with failed attempts at humor.  Here’s one.
  
  
• Luke using the force choke.  That’s kind of a Dark Side power, isn’t it?  I would expect a Jedi to use a less violent method of dealing with the guards.
  
  
• Luke, while in the Rancor pit, grabbing the bars of a “window” and shaking around as if trying to pull the bars out of the way and exit.  This just looks silly, and an intense scene like this is a bad time for unintended laughs.
  
  

• LUKE: That’s the last mistake you’ll ever make.

  I don’t like this line.  What is Luke trying to accomplish by saying this?  Villains like to say things like this to revel in the misfortune they are about to inflict on their victims, but Jedi don’t.  Luke doesn’t appear to have any delusions that saying something like this is going to make Jabba realize the mistake he’s making and change his mind, so he just comes across as Snidely Whiplash gloating over what he’s going to do.  (I don’t have the same problem with, “Jabba, this is your last chance: free us or die.”  It’s right to give him one more chance.  But that’s not what’s happening with the “last mistake” line.)
  
  
• On the way to the Sarlacc pit: something doesn’t look right about the shadows cast on the dunes by the barge and skiffs.  There are also a lot of obvious bluescreen effects.  (And Luke pronouncing “Lando” and “Landau,” but I guess that’s no worse than General Dodanna pronouncing “Leia” as “Lee-a.”)
  
  
• The CG Sarlacc: I prefer the 1983 Sarlaac.  The original Sarlacc looks like a force of nature, while the SE Sarlacc looks like a (relatively speaking) more ordinary animal.  The original is more frightening, IMO.
  
  
• Lando nodding at Luke before Luke is dropped into the pit.  Could Lando possibly be any more obvious?
  
  
• A lot of things in the ensuing action sequence happen much too slowly.
  
  The first is Luke standing and waiting a few seconds for the lightsaber to drop into his hand.  During this time, nobody reacts.  It would be nice if it could be reedited so that he grabs the lightsaber the moment he lands on the skiff.  Or even before he lands on the skiff.
  
  Boba Fett wraps up Luke in a cable, then just stands there and waits for a stray laser bolt to shake the skiff, and loses his balance rather easily.
  
  “Boba Fett?  Boba Fett?  Where?”  “AAAAAIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!”  «burp»  Yet another failed attempt at humor, and an inappropriate end for Boba Fett.  This too is plagued by the “too slow” problem.  Boba Fett raises his weapon very, very slowly, then just waits.  This movement is unnaturally slow for anybody, and way beyond ridiculous for one of the galaxy’s best bounty hunters.  The only reason he moves so slowly is to give Han enough time for his “hilarious” bobafettbobafettwhere routine.
  
  Force Kick!
  
  Nobody seems to notice or care that Leia is strangling Jabba.
  
  Han, Chewie, and Lando are stationary and wide out in the open for a long time and nobody picks them off.  I realize that Luke is demanding a lot of attention, but with all the bad guys and all the area they cover, nobody could spare a half a second to get rid of these three?  Somebody inexplicably (really, really, really bad aim?) takes a few shots at the opposite end of the skiff instead of shooting our three heroes.
  
  It bugs me that Lando’s entire role in the rescue consists of falling into the pit so that Han and Chewie can spend the next couple of minutes rescuing him.
  
  

• LUKE: That’s right, Artoo, we’re going to the Dagobah system.

  Does Luke really need to tell Artoo what Artoo just said?  I’d cut out the “That’s right, Artoo” part, so it just looks like Artoo is asking where they’re going, and Luke answers, “We’re going to the Dagobah system.”
  
  
• Random note: Darth Vader is a lot taller in the OT than in his introduction in ROTS.  Of course, this is something that should be corrected in ROTS, not in the OT.
  
  

• EMPEROR: Everything is proceeded as I have foreseen.  Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

  That laugh really annoys me.  And it’s too early to telegraph the fact that the rebels are walking into a trap orchestrated by the Emperor.
  
  

• LUKE:  Yoda spoke of another.
  
  BEN:  The other he spoke of is your twin sister.
  
  LUKE:  But I have no sister.
  
  BEN:  To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born.  The Emperor knew, as I did, if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him.  That is the reason why your sister remains safely anonymous.
  
  LUKE:  Leia!  Leia’s my sister.BEN:  Your insight serves you well.

  I’ve posted about this before.  I don’t like the idea that Luke was hidden from Vader by placing him with the Larses.  Yes, that was GL’s intent, but I don’t like it.  Leia may have been hidden, but not Luke.  So I’d like to remove the reference to hiding Luke.  Maybe something like this:

  LUKE:  Yoda spoke of another.
  
  BEN:  The other he spoke of is your twin sister.
  
  LUKE:  But I have no sister.
  
  [BEN sits silently.  LUKE has a flashback to the end of TESB, when he used the Force to call out to Leia and she heard him.]
  
  LUKE:  Leia!  Leia’s my sister.
  
  BEN:  Your insight serves you well.

  
  
  
• General Solo.  When Han left Hoth, he was a Captain.  He has spent the bulk of his time since then encased in carbonite.  Somehow, while encased in carbonite, he skipped right over Major and Colonel and became a General.
  
  
• General Calrissian.  Even more ridiculous.  On Cloud City, he made a deal with the Empire and betrayed his friends in the Rebellion.  When the Empire broke the deal and it became clear that he would be really screwed if he stayed, he rescued Leia and Chewie, who were the only ones who could give him a safe place to go.  Now this weasel is a General in the Rebellion.  Ugh.  It’s like the Star Trek thing where everybody becomes an Admiral when they get old enough.
  
  
• When Admiral Ackbar addresses the assembly, the movement of his mouth does not sync well with his words.
  
  

• LEIA: Wonder who they found to pull that off?

  She can’t think of anybody?  Like there aren’t a lot of brave, capable officers in the Rebellion?
  
  

• HAN:  My team’s ready.  I don’t have a command crew for the shuttle.
  
  CHEWIE: «growl»
  
  HAN: It’s gonna be rough, pal.  I didn’t want to speak for you.
  
  CHEWIE: «growl»
  
  HAN: That’s one.

  Han didn’t talk to Chewie about this before the meeting?
  
  

• HAN: I just got a funny feeling, like I’m not gonna see her again.

  False foreshadowing. 

That’s all for now.  More another day.

fishmanlee said:

rcb said:

fishmanlee said:

well the everybody in star wars isnt very smart if they cant figure out anakin and padme are married....

 

 obi-wan did, n i think yoda had a hunch.

 

 i mean like alot of the senate people or something

i mean there sleeping in the same room/bed! "oh senatoor i gotta protect youu!"

and its not like there isnt paparazzi in a galaxy far far away..

For that matter, it should be common knowledge, or at least widely suspected, that Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker.

cap said:

Darth Venal said:

Well, aren't you missing the fact that Vader didn't even know he had a son, and so wouldn't be looking for him?

Vader was extremely strong with the Force.  That provides a great deal of insight and intuition.  He felt that Padmé was alive when he left her.  There were obvious motives to lie to him.  Yet he never suspected he had been lied to?

He was obsessed with the survival of his family.  (At least, he was obsessed with the survival of his mother and Padmé.  It’s reasonable to assume he would have the same attitude about his child.)  He had the entire resources of the Galactic Empire at his disposal.  Yet he was so 100% certain that he had been told the truth about his child not surviving that he never bothered to make even the most cursory investigation and have somebody check out the Lars household?

Explaining away the error by assuming that Vader was a COMPLETE FLICKING MORON is not very satisfying.

In fairness, Venal, I agree that your explanation is the official Lucas canon explanation.  Vader’s baffled “How is that possible?” line that GL added to the 2004 DVD confirms that, as does Padmé’s corpse appearing pregnant during the funeral procession in ROTS. “Greedo fires first” is also official Lucas canon.  That doesn’t mean it’s intelligent or believable or shouldn’t be changed in a fan edit.

Darth Venal said:

Well, aren't you missing the fact that Vader didn't even know he had a son, and so wouldn't be looking for him?

Vader was extremely strong with the Force.  That provides a great deal of insight and intuition.  He felt that Padmé was alive when he left her.  There were obvious motives to lie to him.  Yet he never suspected he had been lied to?

He was obsessed with the survival of his family.  (At least, he was obsessed with the survival of his mother and Padmé.  It’s reasonable to assume he would have the same attitude about his child.)  He had the entire resources of the Galactic Empire at his disposal.  Yet he was so 100% certain that he had been told the truth about his child not surviving that he never bothered to make even the most cursory investigation and have somebody check out the Lars household?

Explaining away the error by assuming that Vader was a COMPLETE FLICKING MORON is not very satisfying.

Backstroke said:

It was obviously meant as a compliment to Adywan. I am fully aware that much of this has been a combined effort of the entire forum but I do believe it takes a special breed of man to pull something like this through and from the looks of it Adywan is one of these men.

I agree with that 100%.

When I state that I think Adywan should work for Lucasfilm its basically saying that "I wish that Mr. Lucas would listen to the voice of the fans" and I firmly believe that Adywan as produced a significantly different edit than I have ever seen before. That in itself is something that I personally think that George Lucas could use. A no-man, someone who rethinks the whole project.

 

With that said I hope that I have explained my meaning.  

OK, I understand you now.  Sometimes I interpret things more literally than they were intended.  (Yep, Aspie.)

Darth Venal said:

Well what continuity issues with regards to the PT are you referring to in Jedi?

The most notable one is probably Leia remembering her birth mother.  I’ve seen it suggested by some apologists that Leia didn’t know she was adopted, so she misunderstood the question and responded with an irrelevant description of Bail Organa’s wife, who happened to have some traits in common with Leia’s birth mother.  This explanation moves it from the category of “continuity error” to “pointless waste of time,” and I don’t think that’s an improvement.  In my mind this remains a continuity error.  I haven’t given much thought to how it could best be corrected.

Another continuity error in my opinion is when Ben says that Luke was hidden from Vader.  This may have raised an eyebrow in ’83.  (If they’re trying to hide him, why keep the same last name?)  But when the PT came out, we learned that Uncle Owen was Anakin’s stepbrother, and apparently living in the same place that Anakin knew.  With that information, the idea that Luke was placed there to hide him from Vader becomes particularly hard to believe.  (My own ideas of how to handle the hows and wherefores of Luke’s upbringing are here.  I haven’t given much thought to how ROTJ can be altered to be consistent with those ideas, and don’t know whether the wider world of SW fandom would even like those ideas.)

ROTJ has much bigger problems than these continuity errors, but I still thought them worth mentioning.

I imagine this has been discussed before, but I haven’t read this first 143 pages of this thread.  Sorry.

It seems to me that Revisiting ROTJ (or the prequels) is fundamentally a very different problem than Revisiting ANH or TESB.

ANH and TESB are pretty solid from a creative point of view.  Of the few really bad creative decisions that were made in those two episodes (Greedo firing first, etc.), most were introduced in the SEs, and can be corrected by making the film more faithful to the original versions.

ROTJ is a different kettle of fish.  There were a lot of bad creative decisions when the film was first made in 1982-83.  Compounding these problems are continuity problems introduced by the prequels.  Correcting these issues poses a very different kind of challenge than Adywan has faced with ANH and TESB; in many cases, I don’t know whether it would even be possible to correct them.

So my question: how is Adywan planning to approach ROTJ?  Is he going to take a similar approach to ANH and TESB, in which most of his work consists of correcting technical errors, improving special effects, and reversing bad decisions introduced in the SEs?  Or will he take an aggressive approach to address PT continuity issues and bad creative decisions in the original film?

I could list a bunch of plot and dialog issues that bother me, and in some cases suggest ways to improve them, but I don’t know whether Adywan’s looking for that kind of input.

Backstroke said:

I just saw this release and I am stunned! Goes without saying but why ain't Adywan employed as  a lucasfilm creative consultant?

Pardon the snarkiness, but I think there's a fundamental philosophical incompatibility.

Adywan accepted creative suggestions from dozens if not hundreds of Star Wars fans from all around the globe.  He may have done 95% of the technical work by himself, and he may have been the final word on all creative decisions, but he allowed the whole universe of Star Wars fandom to participate in the creative process.

George Lucas, quite frankly, seems to have nothing but contempt for the fans.  He is jaw-droppingly arrogant, and is certain he knows better than you do what you like.  In his mind, if 95% of Star Wars fans think they hate Greedo firing first and Han stepping on Jabba’s tail, then those 95% of fans are simply wrong; the truth is that they love the creative choices that Lucas made and simply lack the self awareness to realize how much they love it. I don’t think he would be interested in a creative consultant whose idea of creativity is giving the fans what they want.

A related question is whether Lucasfilm should hire Adywan for his technical skills, but if you’re going to ask that question, then I have to ask Adywan: would you want to work for somebody like George Lucas?

I’m curious about the early scenes with Biggs and Luke on Tatooine.  Why weren’t they included in Revisted?  Was it decided that they add nothing to the story, was the footage too badly degraded to be salvageable, or was it just too radical a change from the original?

I hate this line.  I think the original dialog makes so much more sense.  Especially when you consider the question often asked, “Why would they put Luke with the Larses if they were trying to hide him from Vader?”  They weren’t.

This is how I like to figure it:

When Sidious told Vader that Vader had killed Padmé, it wasn’t part of a plan to keep him in the dark (no pun intended) about the existence of his offspring.  It was just to cause him the greatest emotional pain possible, which completed his journey to the Dark Side.

The Queen of Naboo dying during childbirth is a difficult story to keep off the cover of the supermarket tabloids.  (I choose to ignore the ridiculous bit about making her corpse look like she’s still pregnant when buried.  What, like they know Sidious lied to Vader, and they decide to conspire with Sidious to maintain the deception?  If Adywan ever takes on ROTS, maybe he can fix that.)  The next time Vader is in the checkout line he realizes that he has been lied to.  (He’s doesn’t go, “OMG, I can’t believe my master lied to me!”  He knows that’s how Sith Lords work.)  So he knows he has a kid out there somewhere, and decides to find out what happened to that child.

The child is not difficult to find.  It’s a boy, and his name is Luke.  The Larses are taking care of him, and Obi-wan is also nearby, looking out for him.  He’s in good hands, may the Force be with him. Vader decides to leave him where he is.  He may hate Obi-wan, but he wants the best for his son, and realizes that Obi-wan also cares about Luke, so he lets Obi-wan be so that he can watch over Luke.  The last thing he wants is for his son to follow in his footsteps and become a Sith Lord, driven completely by rage and hate.  It’s not a fun way to live.  He’d rather Luke have a good, normal life, far away from the world of Sith Lords and Jedi.  He may even meet with Obi-wan to make sure they’re on the same page about that, and they are.  That’s why Obi-wan lives a stone’s throw from Luke for twenty years and never mentions a word about the Force or lightsabers to him until he needs help on his mission to Alderaan.

Vader does not know, nor have any reason to suspect, that Luke has a twin.

Sidious doesn’t interfere.  Luke will not be brought up to know the Force, and that’s good enough.  Sidious and Vader are a team, and killing your teammate’s son for no good reason is not good for teamwork.

Twenty years later, Vader is chasing an X-wing across the Death Star, and recognizes, “The Force is strong with this one.” Then, boom.

The next time Vader is in the checkout line, he sees a cover story about Luke Skywalker, the Rebel who fired the shot that destroyed the Death Star.  He thinks, “Oh, crap.  This is not good.  Not good at all.  We can’t have him out there becoming a Jedi and fighting against Sid and me.  I’d better go get him.  I’ll get him and turn him to the Dark Side.  At least, I hope I can turn him, because if he won’t turn, I’ll have to kill him, and that would really suck.”  So he sends out probes all over the galaxy looking for Luke, and discovers him on Hoth.

Not long after, he gets a call from his master.

“Hey, V-Man.  I was just at the grocery store, and you’ll never guess who’s all over the tabloid covers!”

“Yeah, I know.  Luke.”

“We can’t let him become a Jedi.”

“No shit, Sherlock.  Don’t worry, I’m on it.  I don’t have him yet, but I will soon.  Then we’ll turn him to the Dark Side.”

“You realize, of course, that if he doesn’t turn, we’ll have to kill him.”

“Yes, I realize that.  *Sigh.*  We still on for Poker on Tuesday?”

“You bet.  (Get it?)  See you then.  May the Force be with you.”

Jawa Jam said:

3) I agree that Han, who at the time was not quite sold on being in the Rebellion, just didn't want his ship tampered with.

What tampering?  The suggestion was to get off the Falcon and hire another ship.

Gaffer Tape said:

It probably would have required them to get too close to the moon to keep from being detected.  The whole plan was based on the element of surprise.  As soon as the Imperials realized that their shield generator had suddenly been blown up... BAM, the entire Rebel fleet shows up at their unprotected doorstep.

How much time would it take?  The entire Rebel fleet suddenly shows up at the Death Star’s doorstep, for 15 seconds they throw everything they’ve got at the site of the shield generator, then they turn their attention to the Death Star.  It would be a hell of a lot faster than a ground assault.

If, for some reason I can’t imagine, you’re committed to a ground attack, you don’t need an entire assault force equipped with plastic explosives.  One martyr (or, for that matter, a droid) equipped with one really BIG bomb would do the trick.  We don’t have to be talking Chicxulub here.  Winslow Arizona would do the trick.  Surely the Alliance has that level of technology.

Come to think of it, a single space cruiser flying at relativistic speed into the planet would pack a hell of a lot more bang than the Chicxulub impactor.  It would pulverize the planet on impact.  Why did they need the Death Star for the power to destroy a planet?  If they had the technology to move a large vessel at lightspeed, they already had the technology to destroy a planet.

SilverWook said:

Of course, none of this explains away making an even bigger design flaw than the original. Exhaust ports big enough to fly into! ;)

They didn’t see that as a design flaw because those exhaust ports were protected by a shield they believed to be invulnerable.

As long as we’re on the “Why didn’t they...” theme, I don’t see why the Rebels decided to let everything depend on a ground assault force defeating the (assumed, for no good reason, to be small) Imperial force protecting the shield generator and placing explosives.  The Alliance may not have had the power to destroy a planet, but they certainly had enough firepower to blast a sizable crater in one.  Why not take out the shield generator by nuking the entire site from orbit?  (In the words of Ellen Ripley, “It’s the only way to be sure.”)  Is there any reason given why this wouldn’t work?