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canofhumdingers

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7-May-2005
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7-Sep-2024
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Post
#338284
Topic
When did the prequels officially suck?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/338284/action/topic#338284
Time

Hmm... I guess officially I'd have to say during the Coruscant speeder chase sequence in AOTC.  It was the first time in my life I was downright BORED while watching an action scene in a Star Wars movie.  I remember watching it in disbelief, looking at my watch thinking "What's wrong here?  This is Star Wars, I shouldn't be so bored!"  Then the love scenes & asteroid chase sealed the verdict.

Though prior to that, repeat viewings of TPM had given rise to stronger & stronger worries that this was going to blow.

Post
#332596
Topic
Star Wars Galaxy
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/332596/action/topic#332596
Time

A friend of mine gave me an old issue of Star Wars Galaxy and a Star Wars Technical Journal (one of a series of 6 or so "magazines" with blueprints & technical specs for various star wars stuff.  mine is on imperial technology including ships, blasters, etc.) for christmas last year.  I know exactly how you feel.  I really got a kick out of seeing the old Jawa Trader ads in the middle section of Galaxy.  I remember scouring those ads as a kid circling everything i wanted my mom to order from it for my birthday or christmas or whatever was coming next were i thought i might get a present.  Ah.... the good old days.

 

On a similar note, at the "Star Wars: Where Science Meets Imagination" exhibit that recently traveled through St. Paul, i bought a second printing issue of the original Star Wars movie theater program.  Talk about a time machine.  It was like going straight back to '77, even though i wasn't born yet.  so much fun & so much cooler than what you get at theaters now (usually nothing!).

Post
#322471
Topic
Saga Book Boxset - The 6 episodes in one box !!!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/322471/action/topic#322471
Time

based on the pictures it looks to just be stills/frames from the films.  I'd be willing to bet that that's all it is & that the stills from the OT are from the 2004 versions.  I like how they're marketing it as "George's personal choices" of pictures.  Yeah right!  there's no way he sat down & personally picked out every frame presented in those books.

Post
#319752
Topic
An interview with Spielberg and Lucas, from a few weeks ago.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/319752/action/topic#319752
Time
STEVEN SPIELBERG: Here's the difference. The [background] matte paintings that you saw, let's say, in Raiders of the Lost Ark, when the carload of Nazis went off the cliff? Or the Pan Am clipper sitting in that obviously painted dockside waterfront? Our digital paintings now look like we were there on location. We have just as many matte-painting shots in this movie as we had in the other movies. The difference is, you won't even be able to tell that there's a brushstroke. For a while, I wanted to make them look bad, so they looked exactly like they did in the other movies.


I found this particularly interesting, what with the recent HD cable broadcasts..... I just fear that they're already well under way on the Indiana Jones SEs.....UGH



Oh, & i agree that the anticipation didn't affect the reaction to the prequels THAT much. Maybe a little, but the majority of the negativity was because they were just BAD movies. They had crappy acting, unbelievable dialogue, and a director who didn't give the actors ANY direction (seriously, watch the making of's). George just doesn't get it anymore. Technology is just a means to an end. It's the story & the CHARACTERS that are the heart of the movie. A heart that was totally lacking in the prequels.
Post
#319343
Topic
Indiana Jones IV
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/319343/action/topic#319343
Time
Sorry to double post, but i just thought of the perfect example of where difficulty with practical effects forced the filmmakers to rethink things & made the film better for it. The Wampa!!!!

had they had cgi, they could've made the sequence exactly the way they had wanted originally. But sometimes less is more (as george summarily proved with the special edition)
Post
#319342
Topic
Indiana Jones IV
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/319342/action/topic#319342
Time
You guys seem to think that the movie would've been so much better if they had just used old fashion models instead of CGI. Uh, the story would be the same. If that were the only difference then I think it would simply look like crap. Just because someone uses models instead of CGI doesn't automatically make the movie look any better. It makes the movie cost more, but that's about it. As long as the story is good, it doesn't matter how much or how little CGI there is. Conversely, if the story sucks, no amount of models will suddenly make it great.


You're right, the quality of effects has little if any impact on the quality of the story. That's not what i hate about cgi. I think the "lucas fingerprints" thread over in the general star wars discussion has done a good job listing the reasons i prefer models, puppets, & real on set/location stunts over cgi & green screen.

& i think over reliance on cgi CAN have at least a small impact on the quality of the narrative. in my opinion, it allows the filmmakers to be lazy by having TOO much freedom. they can pretty much get exactly what they imagine everytime, whereas practical effects & stunts force them to face physical challenges in the real world that they have to overcome. Facing challenges forces us to think creatively & grow as people. This, in turn, makes better art.

Finally, cgi has also led to the advent of "digital editing" (is that what it's called?) where filmmakers can literally splice two seperate takes together to get the performance they desire. I remember seeing this on some "making of" for one of the prequels. Lucas maybe liked take 2 for Anakin, but liked take 6 for Obi-wan. Instead of trying to coax each actor into giving the desired results together in one take by giving them good direction & feedback, Lucas was able to just splice those two takes together in editing. IMO, this just KILLS any chance of getting good chemistry between the actors. It's not something I think Speilberg would or has used, but it is something cgi has brought about & it's a concept I utterly detest.

And i admit i'm a bit biased against cgi because i feel it's killing many of the arts i love. traditional matte painting, model building, & the many other things that cgi is slowly replacing are all things that i love & appreciate for the craftsmanship & skill required of the artists. not that cgi doesn't take skill to do well, it just doesn't appeal to me as an art form the way these older techniques do.

Post
#319325
Topic
Crystall Skull has GL's fingerprints all over it
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/319325/action/topic#319325
Time
I'm right there with you CO. Even if i prefer models & puppets, cg CAN do amazing things. It's just so often over used & becomes the "easy way out" for filmmakers. Regardless of how hard it might be for the artist, it's the easy thing to do for the filmmaker. Case in point: the monkeys in KOTCS. They so could have done that scene with real monkeys. but it would've been challenging & time consuming so they took the easy way out & went digital. & it was crap.

I think a major problem with cgi is that the animators & filmmakers have TOO much control. It's those "happy accidents" that can really make something work and those just don't happen anymore with CGI.
Post
#319242
Topic
Indiana Jones IV
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/319242/action/topic#319242
Time
I normally don't do the "reply to replies" thing (too much work getting all the quotes done properly), but I just had to respond to a few of these.


lordjedi said:

Apparently we both saw different movies. The hotrod race was their to introduce the Russians (or did that just completely go over your head?) as well as show the time period (am I the only one that figured out immediately that it was 1950's Nevada, somewhere outside Vegas?). Good God people. Yeah, it was a bit of a nod to American Graffiti courtesy of Lucas, but then again, so were a bunch of other scenes.

It didn't go over my head, i just didn't like it. Someone else mentioned the "in mission" opening sequences to all the Jones films as inspired by the Bond films & i get that. But this one DIDN'T have Jones in it! It felt like it didn't belong.

& I still don't like the gophers. Comic relief or not, they just made me roll my eyes.


And I guess it wasn't possible that those guys tightened their gun straps? Give me a break. It was very obviously pulling on everything and there's no reason to believe that they didn't simply tighten the straps beforehand.

But it wasn't pulling on everything. & i don't recall their straps being very tight. It was just a detail that stuck out & bugged me.


Maybe because it was cheaper to have an animator do them in the computer than it would be to get permits for wild animals and deal with PETA. I know that if I had the choice between those two things, I'd go with the computer too.

And i wouldn't go with the computer. this really comes down to personal taste & i strongly dislike using CGI for things that could very well be done in real life b/c i think it's lazy.


Wait, your problem with the sword fight is that it was blue screen? HAHAHAHAHA! How about the fact that a kid with some sword fighting experience was actually standing up to a woman that seemed to be an expert with a sword? My biggest gripe is that that sword fight would've ended in about two seconds. Have you ever seen real competitive sword fighters go at it? Even those fights last mere seconds and they've been doing it for years. To have this "greaser" stand up to her for that long was just a joke. But again, I can deal with it for the purposes of a movie. It seems to me that Spielberg wanted someone to fight a swordsman at some point in one of his movies and not run away. This was that fight.

While i know you probably didn't mean it, i actually found this rather insulting. I fenced for four years in college learning all three olympic weapons (foil, epee, & sabre). I've taken kendo (japanese fencing derived from samurai fighting techniques) for two years & still actively train with both the Minneapolis Kendo club & the Memphis Kendo club (when i'm in town down there). I know exactly how long a real sword fight would last. Sword fights in movies are almost never realistic b/c they wouldn't be very exciting to the general populace who has no idea that a real fight would last about 2 seconds once the opponents made a move. I can accept that & enjoy a good swashbuckling fight. The part of the scene that bugged me was not the sword fight, but the splits between moving vehicles while getting thumped in the nads. it wasn't an exciting sword fight, it was a childish circus act. It's possible to make a great movie that appeals to people of all ages without being childish & that's what i was hoping for. Unfortunately, it didn't happen, imo.


I think a lot of you are simply ripping this movie apart because Lucas was involved.

I can see why you might say that about my post, but it's really not the case. I went into this movie with fairly low expectations, but i still had high hopes. Like when i walked into the theater for each prequel, i WANTED to like this movie so much! I WANTED it to be as much fun as the others. But then it wasn't & that left me disappointed, just as i feared i would be but hoped i wouldn't.

the thing is, with some minor edits & tweaks & someone ballsy enough to tell them to stop using so much CGI, i think it could've been a really good IJ adventure. Not great like Raiders, but as good as any of the sequels. That just makes it even more disappointing to me.

i really don't hate lucas(he DID make some of the greatest films ever), it's just that all the things that really killed this movie for me just feel so much like his influence. The gophers? the car race opening? the tarzan swinging? the ridiculous amounts of unconvincing cgi? tell me you don't see Lucas in every one of those
Post
#319149
Topic
18% of LD owners cite Star Wars as a main reason for keeping obsolete format
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/319149/action/topic#319149
Time
while Star Wars isn't really the reason i'm hanging on to my laserdisc player (i watch the GOUT much more than the DC box i have), it is the reason i ever got a player to begin with. The 2004 dvd release "inspired" me to seek out the best quality version of the OOT i could find, which happened to be LD. Thus, i got the Definitive Collection & a player off ebay at that time.
Post
#318995
Topic
Indiana Jones IV
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/318995/action/topic#318995
Time
sean wookie said:

So I shouldn't [have] had a great time, laugh, and enjoy myself?


Not at all, if you liked it that's fine & i'm glad you did. Heck, i laughed & enjoyed myself during the parts of it i liked. But that's absolutely NO reason to lower your standards.

I think it's insulting to the audience to expect or especially ASK them to lower their standards in order to find entertainment in a piece. either you'll meet their standards & they'll praise you; or you won't, and they'll criticize you (constructively i hope) which will push you to improve & grow as an artist.
Post
#318964
Topic
Indiana Jones IV
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/318964/action/topic#318964
Time
sean wookie said:

Lower your standards guys it's just a movie


Um, howabout not? Why should i have to lower my standards & accept subpar material? This attitude is what allows crap to proliferate. If i keep my standards high, maybe i won't enjoy as many things out there, but maybe, just maybe, having high standards helps push people to greatness. It may not happen all the time, but i think it's worth it for the rare occasion when it does.

I mean, would you tell an engineer, when he's having difficulty designing a new airplane because it's challenging, "eh, just lower your standards, it only carries 15 people". Or, if comparing engineers to filmmakers is too far of a stretch, what about, say, Michelangelo painting the Sistine Chapel. Do you know what he had to go through to paint that ceiling? What would we have today if someone told him, "hey, it's just a ceiling, just lower your standards."? Man i hate that attitude & it seems so common these days.
Post
#318741
Topic
Indiana Jones IV
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/318741/action/topic#318741
Time
i thought it was pretty disappointing. It had a few decent moments & was much better than the prequels in terms of acting, but there were just too many things that had no place in an IJ movie to me. Honestly, most of the things i hated were quite obviously Lucas's influence (as that other thread points out...)

I think that had he been banned from touching this thing once the basic storyline (which i actually didn't have a problem with) it actually would have been a pretty good movie.

Spoilers ahead....





The things that really ruined it for me were things like the stupid hot rod race at the beginning... what was that? it served no purpose but to look cool. ok, that happens sometimes in adventure films, but usually the "looking cool" sequences at least involve key characters or have SOME sort of relation to the story at large. This HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING ELSE IN THE MOVIE. It was just there b/c Lucas likes hotrod racing.

The gophers.... Oh my gosh, what the heck?!? Once again, totally pointless & out of place in the context of the movie itself, & definately in the context of the series.

The way the gunpowder traveled in a perfectly level to the floor path that winded around the crates. This was just bizarre. The exact same thing could have been done in a much more beleiveable manner to the same (well, better) effect.

The very inconsistent magnetic attraction of said crate. It pulls some guys' guns, but not the guns on the backs of the guys carrying the crate??? This, again was not a bad idea, just executed poorly & sloppily.

THE MONKEY SWINGING MUTT! UGH!! that was pure Lucas garbage at its worst.

The monkeys themselves. Why did they need to be CGI? THEY DIDN'T. That little bit actually could have been ok if they used like monkeys for as much of the sequence as PETA would allow. & even the mutt swinging from the trees might've been ok if it were done with real stunt work, action set peices, etc like the stunts coreographed for the first three films.

Same goes for the sword fight. It was lame, but it didn't have to be. It could have been pretty cool & exciting if it wasn't blatantly blue screen CGI. Seriously, would the whole drug underneath the truck & crawling all over it, running from the boulder, fighting on the tank, fighting on the rope bridge, sequences have been half as exciting if they were'nt ACTUALLY happening, but filmed in a nice safe sound stage green screen & cgi'ed together?? NO. So why couldn't we get that kind of stuff in this one??

The wedding. Not terrible, just doesn't really fit the Jones character very well imo.

The crystal skull's power was never explained in a way that we really understood why anybody wanted it so bad. a small bit of dialogue could've easily fixed this & made the adventure resonate a little more.

I was a little disappointed that Marion & Indy's relationship felt flat & a bit forced. Not on the level of Anakin & Padme (thank goodness!!), but they just didn't have that great chemistry from Raiders. I wasn't surprised, as it's been a long time, but i was a little disappointed none the less.

The nuclear explosion fridge survival was just too over the top. I might have bought it if the fridge didn't go flying hundreds of feet through the air. Indy is escapist adventure & he survives things no man really should, but that one was a bit extreme even for him.

The death of Spalko. Felt very anticlimactic & uninspired. The commander guy's ant death was WAY cooler. Spalko was the big baddie & she should have had a gruesome, shocking death that we didn't see coming. Not the bland Raiders imitation we got.

CGI CGI CGI!!!!! ARRRGGHHH !!!! I remember Speilberg saying they were going to use lots of big action sets, on location shooting, stunt work, etc like the old films & that would have been GREAT. I don't hate CGI, i just hate its overuse & this was a major example of over use. It's also a perfect example for those of us who believe that CGI DOES make filmakers lazy & uncreative. Instead of doing the hard way of building big action sets, coordination dangerous stunts on location, & actually having to creativley solve the problems of bringing things that couldn't actually happen into realization on a live set, they just take the easy way out & use green screen & cgi. BLEH!!

All that being said, there were parts i liked. Harrison did a decent job over all. Not his strongest perfarmance by any means, but good enough.

To my surprise, i didn't hate Mutt. He made for a decent sidekick. Although, i absolutely do NOT want to see the series continue with him.

the cemetary exploration sequence was pretty awesome.

the parts of the jungle chase that weren't a blatant over the top cgi crapfest were pretty fun. the waterfall part wasn't bad either, though i think three times was a bit much. I guess they just had to out do TOD...

THE ANTS!! THAT was cool. got a little too cgi-ish in a couple of parts but over all they were great. The guy getting taken into the ant hill as they eat his face off was classic gruesome indy death scene.

The chase through the campus. Felt about on par with some of the chases in TLC. I enjoyed it.

The way Indy & Mutt initially get away from the KGB in the diner. Indy getting mutt to start a fight between the greasers & the jocks made me laugh. Classic Indy using his wits to get out of something on the fly.

The Akator sequences up until it turns into a CGI cartoon towards the end.

Over all, i thin there was a good film in there somewhere. Unfortunately, i think George's influence really killed it for me. Had they kept him away from it once the story was laid out & then had a gutsier editor who would stand his ground & cut out the crap like the gophers, it could have been pretty fun. As it is, the bad just outweighed the good too heavily for me to be able to really like it. Jones will stay just a trilogy for me....
Post
#318178
Topic
State of the Trilogy/ annual SW depression
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/318178/action/topic#318178
Time
well, i'm watching it on SciFi HD right now & it's definately new (as zombie's screenshot shows) Man this pisses me off!!! Why can't they leave the @#!%#@ ALONE!!! That shot was just fine! there's NO NEED to do this kind of crap! I have a very bad feeling about the eventual bluray release..... Just like Star Wars, once they start changing things, where will it end? I was ok with the erasure of the reflection in the snake pit & the boulder track on the 2003 dvd set, but now i see i was sorely mistaken in being complacent about those minor tweeks....

Somehow, i fear Indy will wind up more like Star Wars than E.T., Close Encounters, or Blade Runner.....
Post
#318090
Topic
Oh yeah!!! Lucas...clueless as ever.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/318090/action/topic#318090
Time
not to be a nitpick, but the majority of the effects in Independance Day were practical models & pyrotechnics, including the white house. that was a BIG model that they really blew up (actually , they built two just in case the first one malfunctioned)

what made it look cgi was that the "wall of fire" was basically a composite of an actual fireball & actual models of buildings/cars/etc. that were shot seperately & composited together. It was actually pretty creative the way they shot that, as to get the fire to look like a wall moving up the street, the mounted the camera directly overhead facing straight down & set pyrotechnics off below it so as the fireball travelled up in real life, it travelled "horizontally" across the ground from the camera's point of view.

anyways, i'm in agreement with most here that cgi isn't all bad, it's just way overdone & often done poorly. & I DO much prefer practical effects whenever possible, but i'm also a diehard Godzilla & harryhausen fan, so....