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canofhumdingers

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Post
#1340968
Topic
<strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> — Official Review and Opinions Thread
Time

Finally watched this a second time tonight and was able to form a more thorough opinion. Overall I like it well enough. It’s got some major flaws but I found more of its runtime enjoyable than not.

I do have a few issues though. The worst is that Finn’s “I need to tell you something, Rey” bit never pays off. I don’t care that he never actually gets to tell Rey. I care that they intentionally build this up over the course of the film and then never lead to ANY kind of payoff.

The other thing that bothered me, of all things, was that Kylo took a standard imperial TIE fighter, the kind they explicitly point out that has no hyperdrive in ANH, across the whole galaxy to Exogol. It’s particularly irksome because there are many other tiny details in the movie that show the filmmakers were really paying attention to little details (such as the way Kylo points just like Han). It’s a small detail but feels like a blatantly obvious oversight.

Everything else works well enough and several of the things I questioned on the first viewing actually have enough detail/thought put in that they worked for me this time (the storming the star destroyer on horse back, lando’s call for help to the galaxy, ben’s redemption). It’s definitely not the story I would have come up with and I think there are other possible stories that could have been much better. But for what it is, I’m able to accept it and enjoy it.

Jedit:
I caught one detail I liked that I missed in the theater. When threepio is saying how he can’t translate the Sith language he’s cut off as he’s mentioning something about it being an old (or new?) republic law that droids programming restrict them from translating Sith language. It’s a little detail that makes that whole subplot work better IMO and I kinda wish they made that line a little more obvious.

Post
#1339686
Topic
<strong>Return Of The Jedi</strong> - a General <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

Couldn’t have said it better Ray and Starkiller. The movie is about redemption and not stooping to the level of your enemies. And it delivers an elegant illustration of the Jedi ideology in the way Luke defeats the emperor. Just because the movie doesn’t hold our hand and spell out things doesn’t mean that all the pieces aren’t there for my interpretation to clearly be the intent. Luke was clearly intent to turn Vader in order to defeat the emperor. That was his plan, he stuck to it and used the nonviolent Jedi ideology to bring his father back and win the day. The movie may be uneven and weaker than its two predecessors, but I’ve always thought it completely stuck the landing in the most satisfying way.

Post
#1339363
Topic
<strong>Return Of The Jedi</strong> - a General <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

SilverWook said:

canofhumdingers said:

StarkillerAG said:

Shopping Maul said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Shopping Maul said:

imperialscum said:

Shopping Maul said:

I’ve said this before but a simple dialogue tweak would fix this. If Luke had said to Leia “I have to turn myself in, I’m endangering the mission. The Sith can feel my presence and know that we’re here. I’ll allow myself to be captured - Vader will take me to the Emperor himself and I will make sure he’s on the Death Star when the attack is launched”.

That would just make Luke a “captain obvious” to those in the audience who cannot make 1+1=2 on their own. On the other hand, it would ruin things in-universe. Luke probably knew and accepted that it was a suicide mission and that he would most likely die if the Death Star was blown off (whether or not Vader was redeemed). Why the hell would he tell such a thing to Leia and make her upset before such a crucial mission she was about to undertake? The way he handled it was very wise; he did not lie but he did not tell her that he is going off on a suicide mission either.

I’m not sure telling her that the guy who tortured her and stood by while her homeworld was obliterated was a) her father and b) strangely worthy of a crack at ‘the good side’, was much better than Luke taking on a heavy mission.

I must be the audience who can’t add 1+1. Luke’s only stated mission is the redemption of Vader. While insane violence is occurring outside, Luke’s primary focus is not losing his cool and avoiding a confrontation with Vader. When he finally kicks Vader’s butt - rather than follow through by doing anything proactive in terms of the war - Luke throws his weapon aside and declares himself a Jedi. People are being incinerated by a super-laser by order of the man standing before him and Luke chooses to disarm himself and declare his own enlightenment. How is any of this remotely helpful to the thousands of sentient beings suffering at the hands of the Imperial juggernaut? What in all this makes anyone think that Jedi Knights are a good idea, especially in a war situation?

Indeed you are the audience member that can’t add 1+1. I’m pretty sure Leia knew that Tarkin and The Emperor had more to do with what happened to her and her homeworld than Vader did (acting within their orders, not questioning them due to extensive brainwashing/basically being their slave). Remember how Vader criticized the Death Star at the meeting? If he was calling the shots, Tarkin and The Emperor wouldn’t have their plaything.

Also, for the “Luke could save so many lives thing,” what’s to say that killing The Emperor will stop the battle? The Star Destroyers, Death Star personnel, and Endor ground troops will still act under their initial orders to fight. Whatever Luke does, many will die in the fight. What he will do really doesn’t impact the battle outside and that’s fine.

Again, I maintain that you’re engaging in bad-faith criticism that really misses the point of the movie and the series, so I respectfully disagree with you.

You seem to be forgetting - as does this movie - who Darth Vader is. This is a guy whose first act in ANH was to lift a man up by his neck and crush his larynx. Vader wasn’t some misunderstood kindly old man. He was a brute and a killer. Sure, he may have questioned the value of the Death Star, but he was by means just an unwilling spectator. Look at the way he murdered everyone who disagreed with him in TESB, or had Han screaming in genuine agony on a torture rack purely to get Luke’s attention.

I know, that’s the entire point. The message of the movie is that anyone can change, even the most feared person in the galaxy. His previous atrocities only reinforce how shocking it is that he was able to return from darkness. It’s very much a hopeful conclusion, not the messed up thing you’re painting it as.

So if you were in Luke’s situation you wouldn’t try to get the Emperor in a headlock and order him to call off the battle? I know I would. So would Han or Chewie or Wedge or Leia or just about anyone who isn’t hung up on space-Buddhism.

Once again, that’s the whole point. The Jedi aren’t like other people in the galaxy, they’re more selfless and nonviolent. Any normal person would just kill Palpatine, but Luke held out hope in Vader until the end, and it paid off. This reinforces Yoda’s teachings in ESB: “A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.” It would be against the spirit of the OT for Luke to just kill Palpatine.

It’s not about what Luke could have done so much as what he should have intended. Again I return to my Ewok party scenario. Let’s say Wedge asks “hey Luke, what happened up there man?”. Luke says “well, I was in the throne room with Vader and the Emperor when Palpatine started blowing our ships up”. Wedge would be like “damn, so you kicked his ass right? 'cos I would’ve kicked his ass man!”. Luke would have to admit “uh, well no, 'cos as a Jedi I’m not really allowed to get angry. I mean I did lose my temper and bring Vader to his knees at one point…”. So Wedge would be like “oh cool, so then you stopped the bad guys right?”. Luke - “uh, not exactly 'cos Vader’s my dad and again, violence is just not in keeping with where I need to be spiritually, so I threw my lightsaber away.” Wedge looks dumbfounded. “But” Luke says “on the plus side this does make me a Jedi so…every cloud…”

Yeah, Luke having to explain all this to his friends would be awkward. But I think they would understand that Luke’s philosophy requires him to be nonviolent whenever possible, and they would take comfort in the fact that Vader and Palpatine are dead, no matter how they died. I certainly don’t think he would be branded a war criminal for it.

Yes, all of this (except like having to explain to his friends being awkward, as I explained in my post earlier).

I also forgot another point I meant to make regarding Luke throwing his lightsaber away. As I mentioned, it’s a way of him checking himself for being tempted to go down the dark path as well as an emotional Hail Mary to appeal to Vader. And it’s an extreme chance to take in his situation, but taking extreme chances is a major trait of the Jedi, OT, PT, and on. Just a few examples: Luke turning off his targeting computer, obi-wan and Yoda trusting Luke to defeat the empire, Luke’s force projection on Crait, Ohio-wan agreeing to train Anakin, etc etc. The Jedi take chances a LOT.

Ohio-Wan??

Autocorrect. darn iphone

Post
#1339340
Topic
<strong>Return Of The Jedi</strong> - a General <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

StarkillerAG said:

Shopping Maul said:

BedeHistory731 said:

Shopping Maul said:

imperialscum said:

Shopping Maul said:

I’ve said this before but a simple dialogue tweak would fix this. If Luke had said to Leia “I have to turn myself in, I’m endangering the mission. The Sith can feel my presence and know that we’re here. I’ll allow myself to be captured - Vader will take me to the Emperor himself and I will make sure he’s on the Death Star when the attack is launched”.

That would just make Luke a “captain obvious” to those in the audience who cannot make 1+1=2 on their own. On the other hand, it would ruin things in-universe. Luke probably knew and accepted that it was a suicide mission and that he would most likely die if the Death Star was blown off (whether or not Vader was redeemed). Why the hell would he tell such a thing to Leia and make her upset before such a crucial mission she was about to undertake? The way he handled it was very wise; he did not lie but he did not tell her that he is going off on a suicide mission either.

I’m not sure telling her that the guy who tortured her and stood by while her homeworld was obliterated was a) her father and b) strangely worthy of a crack at ‘the good side’, was much better than Luke taking on a heavy mission.

I must be the audience who can’t add 1+1. Luke’s only stated mission is the redemption of Vader. While insane violence is occurring outside, Luke’s primary focus is not losing his cool and avoiding a confrontation with Vader. When he finally kicks Vader’s butt - rather than follow through by doing anything proactive in terms of the war - Luke throws his weapon aside and declares himself a Jedi. People are being incinerated by a super-laser by order of the man standing before him and Luke chooses to disarm himself and declare his own enlightenment. How is any of this remotely helpful to the thousands of sentient beings suffering at the hands of the Imperial juggernaut? What in all this makes anyone think that Jedi Knights are a good idea, especially in a war situation?

Indeed you are the audience member that can’t add 1+1. I’m pretty sure Leia knew that Tarkin and The Emperor had more to do with what happened to her and her homeworld than Vader did (acting within their orders, not questioning them due to extensive brainwashing/basically being their slave). Remember how Vader criticized the Death Star at the meeting? If he was calling the shots, Tarkin and The Emperor wouldn’t have their plaything.

Also, for the “Luke could save so many lives thing,” what’s to say that killing The Emperor will stop the battle? The Star Destroyers, Death Star personnel, and Endor ground troops will still act under their initial orders to fight. Whatever Luke does, many will die in the fight. What he will do really doesn’t impact the battle outside and that’s fine.

Again, I maintain that you’re engaging in bad-faith criticism that really misses the point of the movie and the series, so I respectfully disagree with you.

You seem to be forgetting - as does this movie - who Darth Vader is. This is a guy whose first act in ANH was to lift a man up by his neck and crush his larynx. Vader wasn’t some misunderstood kindly old man. He was a brute and a killer. Sure, he may have questioned the value of the Death Star, but he was by means just an unwilling spectator. Look at the way he murdered everyone who disagreed with him in TESB, or had Han screaming in genuine agony on a torture rack purely to get Luke’s attention.

I know, that’s the entire point. The message of the movie is that anyone can change, even the most feared person in the galaxy. His previous atrocities only reinforce how shocking it is that he was able to return from darkness. It’s very much a hopeful conclusion, not the messed up thing you’re painting it as.

So if you were in Luke’s situation you wouldn’t try to get the Emperor in a headlock and order him to call off the battle? I know I would. So would Han or Chewie or Wedge or Leia or just about anyone who isn’t hung up on space-Buddhism.

Once again, that’s the whole point. The Jedi aren’t like other people in the galaxy, they’re more selfless and nonviolent. Any normal person would just kill Palpatine, but Luke held out hope in Vader until the end, and it paid off. This reinforces Yoda’s teachings in ESB: “A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.” It would be against the spirit of the OT for Luke to just kill Palpatine.

It’s not about what Luke could have done so much as what he should have intended. Again I return to my Ewok party scenario. Let’s say Wedge asks “hey Luke, what happened up there man?”. Luke says “well, I was in the throne room with Vader and the Emperor when Palpatine started blowing our ships up”. Wedge would be like “damn, so you kicked his ass right? 'cos I would’ve kicked his ass man!”. Luke would have to admit “uh, well no, 'cos as a Jedi I’m not really allowed to get angry. I mean I did lose my temper and bring Vader to his knees at one point…”. So Wedge would be like “oh cool, so then you stopped the bad guys right?”. Luke - “uh, not exactly 'cos Vader’s my dad and again, violence is just not in keeping with where I need to be spiritually, so I threw my lightsaber away.” Wedge looks dumbfounded. “But” Luke says “on the plus side this does make me a Jedi so…every cloud…”

Yeah, Luke having to explain all this to his friends would be awkward. But I think they would understand that Luke’s philosophy requires him to be nonviolent whenever possible, and they would take comfort in the fact that Vader and Palpatine are dead, no matter how they died. I certainly don’t think he would be branded a war criminal for it.

Yes, all of this (except like having to explain to his friends being awkward, as I explained in my post earlier).

I also forgot another point I meant to make regarding Luke throwing his lightsaber away. As I mentioned, it’s a way of him checking himself for being tempted to go down the dark path as well as an emotional Hail Mary to appeal to Vader. And it’s an extreme chance to take in his situation, but taking extreme chances is a major trait of the Jedi, OT, PT, and on. Just a few examples: Luke turning off his targeting computer, obi-wan and Yoda trusting Luke to defeat the empire, Luke’s force projection on Crait, Ohio-wan agreeing to train Anakin, etc etc. The Jedi take chances a LOT.

Post
#1339317
Topic
<strong>Return Of The Jedi</strong> - a General <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

ray_afraid said:

Broom Kid said:

Luke is the Jedi that is returning.

From where?

Not “from”, “to”. As in “returning the Jedi to the galaxy.”

I agree that the original intent of the title is about Luke returning the Jedi to the GFFA. However, I still prefer your interpretation of it being about Anakin’s return. The cool thing (and what makes it a great title) is it can be both simultaneously! It has many interpretations that are equally valid.

Post
#1339315
Topic
<strong>Return Of The Jedi</strong> - a General <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

Chalk me up as another respectful disagree-er, Mr. Maul. I feel like you’re intentionally twisting things to make your interpretation work.

Luke was warned multiple times to be wary of the emperor and his power. I think the movie makes it pretty obvious he goes in there knowing his only chance of beating the emperor is by turning Vader back so they can work together (just as Vader argued in ESB, but with both of them on the light side rather than the dark). His focus is on turning Vader because that’s both important to him personally AND crucial to his plan. And he takes the huge gamble at the end by throwing his weapon away. It’s his Hail Mary pass to get Vader to turn, and it works. Which also serves multiple purposes.

He had just lost his temper and beaten his father in anger, and stepped very close to the edge of turning dark himself. Throwing away his weapon was also him checking himself in that moment and stepping back from the edge.

As for his plan to help the rebellion, I see no major fault. He’s kind of the ace in the hole in a sense. If they blow up the DS2, then he’s made a noble self sacrifice. If they don’t, then he may still be able to cut off the head of the snake, so to speak, which would be a huge blow to the Empire even if it’s not a total defeat.

But as others have pointed out, there’s no way Luke would’ve succeeded or even survived a straight up face-to-face fight with Palps. And as I mentioned, Luke knew that. This was a game of chess, not dodgeball. It was far more a mental fight than physical. And Luke distracting the emperor from the battle outside and successfully appealing to the conflict within Vader was the master play. And he succeeded.

He wouldn’t tell wedge “I hid under the stairs and threw my weapon away”. He’d tell him about the intense cerebral fight he was in to outsmart the emperor and the emotional roller coaster he went thru to get his father (one of the most evil people in the galaxy at that point) to repent from his evil ways, rejoin the light, and defeat the evil before them. If he told wedge anything at all, b/c as others have stated, Luke had no reason to need to justify his actions to anyone by that point.

Post
#1336504
Topic
Star Wars Episode IX (was) to be directed by Colin Trevorrow - DUEL OF THE FATES RIP
Time

I’m reading the script (about 20 pages in) and, yeah, so far I think this would’ve been better than what we got. Granted, I have a somewhat fuzzy memory of Rise of Skywalker since I’ve only seen it once back in December. While I didn’t hate it, it didn’t really do much for me either. This seems like a better ending imo. Keeping palpating (lol, autocorrect. Palpatine.) dead is a big plus already.

Post
#1336284
Topic
Changes to the Disney+ 2019 SE of the Original Trilogy
Time

Yeah, I just wish there was enough of a voice from the consumer base that these companies would actually stop doing this kind of thing, or at least give the consumer the choice of which version they’d prefer to watch.

I thought this article was noteworthy because, while it touches on the Star Wars issue, it was written with a much broader scope (and more important issue) of digitally revising history and the dangers it presents.

Post
#1336251
Topic
Changes to the Disney+ 2019 SE of the Original Trilogy
Time

An interesting article about Disney altering and censoring films for its Disney+ streaming service. Maclunkey gets a mention but it’s more about a Tom hanks film that they’ve cgi’ed out a butt. The cool thing about the article, though, is they actually comprehend and articulate the danger this trend presents to history. This kind of writing needs more support and broader attention in the public eye!

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/14/21220576/splash-tom-hanks-disney-plus-butt-cgi-hair-streaming-physical-digital

Post
#1336131
Topic
<em>Star Wars: The Clone Wars</em> To Return With New Episodes
Time

NFBisms said:

EDIT: oh right, RotS is what’s bad

^This guy got it!

As for my personal opinion, Rogue One and The Mandalorian are both just fantastic, TFA is pretty good but flawed, Solo is better than it had any right to be and I’d say is like one of the better Star Wars comics brought to life, and TLJ is uneven with some very high highs and some very low lows but still enjoyable overall (the ending saves it for me). And they are ALL better than RotS!

The only exception is Rise of Skywalker but that’s only because I haven’t had a chance to see it again since my one time at the theater in order to form a more solid opinion of it, good or bad. I really wanted to see it again but I was so busy over the holidays I never got to. And haven’t had a chance since it came out on video.

Post
#1335711
Topic
<strong>The Empire Strikes Back</strong> - a General <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

I’ve seen links but haven’t watched any yet. I see he did one for the imperial TIE shuttle thing from ESB. Does he give credit to the people on theRPF.com? There was a thread years ago where a guy was researching that ship and figured out it was likely a TIE bomber with the wings flipped around.

Post
#1334470
Topic
Small details that took you <em><strong>FOREVER</strong></em> to notice in the <em>Star Wars</em> films
Time

Broom Kid said:

ATMachine said:

Genuine question: does the FOV of the shot indicate that Yavin IV would be visible from the Death Star? An observer watching from a third point in space (like the camera here) might be able to look on either side of the Yavin gas giant to see both objects, but they might not be able able to see each other nonetheless.

This is probably correct, especially considering how objects in space (especially in Star Wars) can be hard to judge w/r/t/ distance.

Looking at the tweet that .gif came from, apparently someone made the case in the responses, too

https://twitter.com/Nexahs/status/1247571888462848002

Eh. I don’t know. For me the most questionable thing in the shot is how the gas giant behind the X-Wings looks like it’s made of play-doh.

But if you really pay attention, you can deduce that the Death Star does, indeed have a clear line-of-sight shot in that… shot. Yes the camera pans around and whatnot, but look specifically at the relation of Yavin, the ships, and the Death Star to one another. Thanks the the way the camera does move, we can see that the ships appear to be traveling in a straight line, that Yavin is directly behind them, and that the Death Star is directly in front of them. Connect the dots and you have a straight line from Death Star to rebel base with no pesky gas giant to block the laserblast…

Post
#1333551
Topic
Rogue One * <em>Spoilers</em> * Thread
Time

Yeah. While I really like the idea of the rebellion being small and struggling and only really gaining wider support after their victory at Yavin, nothing in Rogue One is too hard to rationalize into the OT.

The Profundity and Admiral Raddus are the only Mon Cal bits we see in the rebellion at that point. While less romantic, it’s not hard to imagine (and perhaps more “realistic”) to think he leads a small band of Rebel sympathizers/supporters that are highly controversial on his home planet and his movement only gains wider Mon Cal support after Yavin. Heck, it’s obvious in the film that the Rebellion’s relationship with many planets/systems/cultures is very strained and tenuous. If I remember, don’t a number of the groups from the big debate scene where they’re deciding whether or not to raid Scariff storm off to go back to their homes rather than risk being more deeply involved in what’s about to happen?

That’s the impression I came away with, anyway: That the Rebellion was losing what little support it had as the debate over the Death Star drug on and then when Jyn and her crew go rogue (ha!) and head to Scariff without full support, its only the really die hards that either join the fight or stay at Yavin to see how it goes. The wafflers all tucked tail and ran.

Post
#1331926
Topic
The <strong>random Pics &amp; GIFs</strong> thread for the Original Trilogy
Time

There are numerous head on or tail on shots of the Falcon in the OT. Most are very fleeting as the camera, ship, or both are moving. One notable longer shot is the Falcon entering the Death Star hangar bay. It lasts several seconds and is dead on the nose just like the Ohrai poster (although the stylized version of the Falcon in the poster looks a bit more “Close Encounters of the Third Kind” which makes it feel a bit more exotic and UFO-ish imo)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHFhp594RlU&app=desktop&persist_app=1

Post
#1331857
Topic
X-Wing or Y-Wing, which ship would you prefer?
Time

I agree! My personal favorite was X-wing Alliance. I can absolutely see arguments for X-wing or TIE Fighter being the better game, but the story mode combined with the better (at the time) graphics and capped off with the excellently simulated Battle of Endor (complete with diving through the Death Star II in the Falcon!!) really clinched it as my personal fave. GREAT game series and a true shame we haven’t gotten a modern sequel or remake of some sort!

As for the original topic, it’s a tough choice. The X-wing is obviously the sexier choice. But the Y-wing is almost like a flying tank that’s so ugly it’s beautiful. The wanna-be fighter pilot in me makes me ultimately pick the X-wing but I’d absolutely wouldn’t be above taking a Y-wing for a spin from time to time!