You know, I did notice the dialogue often sounded surprisingly crappy when I watched the D+ version of A New Hope. I couldn’t believe that an official 4K copy would sound like that when plenty of other sources/versions (both official and unofficial) sound so much better. It’s like they couldn’t find the proper recordings and just used somebody’s cassette tape they recorded off a tv broadcast as a kid for some of the dialogue!
Yeah I’ve had the sabers on display before but with my most recent rearrangement I put them aside and haven’t figured out what to do with them yet. I like some of the custom vertical wall mounts out there, but we’re currently looking to move so I’m not really wanting to waste my time mounting something to the wall only to have to take it down and patch it in a couple months.
Those are all fair points, but I would challenge the claim of color accuracy. I’d say the colors of both are very good (and there are multiple color-timing options to choose from with 4K77 already). Personally I prefer the colors on 4K77 for a couple reasons. One, the original release was timed to match how the print actually looks. And two, while DeEd’s colors are good, they still occasionally suffer from the horrible color timing of the official BD’s creeping through in minor ways.
But really the difference in colors is so minor as to almost not even be worth arguing over. At least to me.
Eh, I’d still argue in favor of 4K77 over despecialized. Even Harmy himself has gone on record as saying he’d recommend it over his current work. It has several things going for it. First and most importantly, it’s a faithful scan of original 1977 sources and not a fan made reconstruction. Secondly it’s available in higher resolution (despecialized is 720p whereas 4K77 can be had in 1080p or 4K).
While I don’t think the natural film grain will be an issue for your kids (it wasn’t for mine), there are several different DNR versions of 4K77 that reduce and smooth out the graininess to varying degrees to suit your preference.
Well, you’ve made it this far so kudos to you!
I’d say get yourself some of the better fan restorations/preservations and show him the original cuts. I showed my kids (ages 5 and 3) the original cuts of the original trilogy in this way earlier this year and it was a great experience all around.
I’d personally go for 4K77 for Star Wars, harmy’s despecialized 2.0 for The Empire Strikes Back, and 4K83 for Return of the Jedi. I’m sorry I’m not much help in regards to obtaining these versions but I’m sure some of the helpful people on this board will jump in and help point you in the right direction.
Oh man, I need this in my life! (Check out the interior!!)
This ESB themed one is pretty awesome too!
Well said, ZkinandBonez. That is exactly how I see the Vader scene at the end of R1! And to say vader stands around and never moves quickly completely ignores his lightsaber duels in the OT.
Also, I disagree with the idea that his use of the Force in R1 is somehow excessive, “wasteful” (whatever that means), or out of character. He uses the Force as well as other tactics for intimidation multiple times throughout the OT (choking the various officers, jumping out at Luke from nowhere before driving him out on the catwalk in cloud city, pummeling Luke with stuff before knocking him out the window, etc., etc.). His display of wizardry and use of the lightsaber in the hallway is clearly meant to scare the bejeebies out of his enemies and it works. He’s routinely demonstrated to be a masterful tactician and this is just a natural extension of that. He’s alone in close quarters combat with an entire squad of enemy soldiers. Of course he’s gonna do everything he can to scare, disorganize, and overwhelm them any way he can.
Apologies to anyone for derailing this thread. I just really enjoy this debate.
In this day and age of extreme “with us or against us” attitudes, I truly appreciate and respect playing the agree to disagree card, so I’m not trying to be antagonizing or keep an argument going just for the sake of arguing.
I just genuinely don’t get this argument against R1’s depiction of Vader. You say he waved his arms around too much, but he was routinely using hand gestures when he used the force in the OT. He didn’t always use hand gestures, and I agree that that was very intimidating indeed. But to say he’s too animated in R1 ignores many of his scenes in the OT. I mean, what about him dancing around like, you know, a fencer when he’s dueling Obi-wan. Or his aggressive pummeling of Luke as he drives Luke backwards onto the catwalk in Cloud City? Vader is imposing and powerful and intimidating, absolutely. But he’s also a man of action who routinely ventures out to the front lines leading his men by example rather than sitting back and directing from on high.
He leads the fighter attack on the rebels in the Death Star trench, he actively storms Echo Base with his snow troopers, he travels to Endor to “deal with them myself” (even if that resulted in just taking Luke back to the Emperor), etc.
I have no problem believing that he would join his troops in storming the Rebel command ship at Scariff and, given the severity and time critical-ness of the situation, split up in an effort to intercept the plans at all costs. When he found the hallway full of rebels, he did what he routinely does in the OT and goes into action.
I have a hard time understanding these complaints about R1. I thought Jyn was a bit bland for the lead the first time I watched it, but I’ve come to like her more the more times I’ve watched it. Otherwise I think all the characters were great and I agree that I enjoyed finding out who they were and where they came from through their interactions with each other. We don’t need to know everything there is to know about each of their life stories for this film. The film gives us exactly the info we need to understand their motivations and choices as they relate to the plot of THIS story.
I think (despite the turmoil or whatever behind the scenes) the filmmakers did a masterful job finding that right balance of giving us enough about them without bogging the film down with a bunch of back story exposition.
As for Cassian, I’ve always found him to be a compelling character. Like someone else mentioned, a rebel who’s willing to cross the line for the greater good is something we’ve not really seen much of and he feels like a real person instead of an archetype. And the pairing of him with K-2SO is wonderful. They have a great dynamic between them and I can’t wait to see more of it!
Oh, and Vader was perfect in R1. Everything he did and said felt perfectly in keeping with what we saw in the OT. Was it really “just his presence” that made him intimidating in the OT? Not the fact that he choked people with his mind, single handedly shot down a big chunk of the rebels’ fighter pilots, caught laser blasts with his hand, used the force to pummel Luke with stuff he was ripping out of the walls, and so on. But yeah, Vader is only cool and intimidating when he just stands around breathing at you. I swear some people just don’t want to have fun anymore!
I finally had a chance to catch up on the final two episodes last night after a busy but fun “Good old fashioned family Christmas”, to quote Clark Griswald.
Dang! That was an amazing season finale! The last two episodes really delivered. This show is everything that new Star Wars content should be. As much as I’ve enjoyed the sequel trilogy, Star Wars just isn’t quite Star Wars without the Empire and classic OT designs for troops and vehicles, etc.
Felt sorry for Ugnolte but I was glad to see the show isn’t afraid to put its characters in real danger. And who doesn’t love IG-11’s role and sacrifice? That droid was flipping incredible!
It’s gonna be a long wait until fall for season 2!
Christmas season has been super busy but I managed to finish my full saga watch-thru culminating in seeing TROS last night. Quick rapid fire thoughts on the final films:
TFA - I like this movie quite well. It’s not perfect but it overcomes it’s faults with an exciting (if familiar) story, good characters, and all the trappings I want from a Star Wars film. I like Rey as the protagonist. I enjoy the idea of a stormtrooper with a conscience who defects. Even though I used to think she was underutilized, I like how Captain Phasma is a total coward. Harrison Ford NAILS his performance. And Kylo Ren is a fascinating villain.
TLJ - This film is and has always been very uneven to me. Some very high high-points but also some very low lows. I enjoy finn’s confrontation with phasma but I do wish they had kept the deleted scene where he confronts her about her cowardice and traitorous behavior in TFA. I’m not a fan of Luke’s motivation for going into hiding (murdering his nephew feels too out-of-character. I think they could’ve easily had him confront Ben in a different but still devastating way.) but I don’t mind him being in exile. I think the best part of the movie is Luke’s lessons to Rey about the force and the Jedi. In fact, this film has the best single explanation of what the force is that we’ve ever gotten. I also enjoyed how it tied into the prequels and the Jedi getting it all wrong. Love that portion of the movie! I also love Luke’s confrontation with Kylo Ren. I thought it was a fitting and powerful end to Luke’s story.
TROS - without spoiling anything, I thought it was… weird. Kinda like the prequels I felt that the overall story was fine and maybe even good, but the execution felt so not like a Star Wars movie. I dunno. I need to see it again.
Return of the Jedi - well, while the new color grade is vastly superior to the previous DVD and BD versions, this is the first one where I feel the complaints about saturation are valid. Most of the film still looks great, but there are some scenes on Tatooine and in the Endor forest that do indeed look too washed out imo. It’s not terrible, but it was noticeable. But still, best looking “official” version since the SE prints were being screened in theaters back in the spring of ‘97.
Again, the changes are unnecessary and distracting at best and downright ridiculous and out of place at worst. I still take the side of those who argue including Hayden as the ghost both makes no sense from Luke’s perspective (who is that guy?) but, more importantly, completely fails to grasp and acknowledge Anakin’s redemption. He shouldn’t revert to his pre-dark side self. He’s redeemed! Born again! Inspite of his checkered past. The unmasked old man IS the new light side Anakin. Ignoring that lessens and perhaps even invalidates his redemption arc.
Other than that it’s still a solid conclusion to the trilogy. Drags a bit in the middle but the third act is pretty powerful.
And I’m still enjoying taking a step back and viewing the series from a sort of “galactic history lesson” perspective. Very cool seeing how it all fits together.
Resolution is not the only component that determines picture quality. If you’re looking for the best looking version of the original theatrical cut of ESB, Despecialized 2.0 is currently it, imo.
DNR stands for Digital Noise Reduction. It’s a means to clean up and smooth out a noisy image (think about a worn out VHS, all that fuzziness is called video noise). When applied to heavily it can cause lots of problems. In the case of the Dreamastered versions it erases many fast moving things like laser bolts and smears or distorts others such as people running.
Alright so are you guys excited for 4K80? But until it comes out, what’s the best way to watch The Empire Strikes Back?
Personally I still prefer ESB Despecialized Edition 2.0 but I also like the ESB Grindhouse 35mm scan from TeamNagative1. Personally, I’m not a fan of the “Dreamastered” Grindhouse because it has way too many digital artifacts and far too much DNR (to the point it erases lots of things like laser bolts). But the Dreamastered colors are a notable improvement over the regular grindhouse. I just wish he’d have done the color correction without any DNR. But I find the DeSpecialized Edition to currently be the best compromise between picture quality, color timing, and so on for general viewing. And yeah, absolutely can’t wait for 4K80!
^that, in my opinion, is the most dangerous attitude of all. “Just change back the most offensive parts” is every bit as revisionist as any special edition so far, but far more insidious and dangerous to history because it appeases the ire of many which reduces demand and interest in the actual original cuts even more. It’s an extremely slippery slope.
The Empire Strikes Back - Unnecessary changes were unnecessary.
Once again the new color timing and 4K master (even at 1080p) looked flipping amazing. I cannot stress enough how pleased I am that people watching the SE now have a decent looking version of it!
It’s still one of my favorite movies ever made (probably THE favorite) so enough said about that.
It’s been interesting watching Vader with the mindset of the PT and how he turned to the dark side to gain power and control to bring order to the galaxy but has completely failed at it. Gave a little extra weight to his plea to Luke.
This may be the least offensive of the SE’s but it is still offensive. Some of the new cloud city stuff is kinda cool, but then a lot of it is very sloppily done. Case in point, in leia’s apartment on cloud city the shadows from the roof window very clearly indicate the center circle is NOT a window, yet we see a cloud car fly through it! That’s bugged me since 1997!
The worst offenses are the extra wampa scenes and the Vader going to his star destroyer additions. The wampa scenes are gratuitous and completely erode the dread we feel from the fear of the unknown. The Vader stuff totally destroys the tension built by the marvelous editing of the escape from Bespin. Like TOTALLY ruins it! It kinda pissed me off honestly.
But, the duel in cloud city (my favorite scene in all of cinema) looks GREAT and the lightsabers finally look like they’re supposed to, so there’s that.
the worst SW ever
Well said ZkinandBonez. While we might have minor differences in opinion here and there, I think you did a great job generally summing up my thoughts on the show so far. Episode 2 is also my favorite. I totally love that episode and may be unfairly judging every episode since (even though I love episode 3 and 4 too).
And I don’t dislike any episode, I just found the most recent two to be weaker when compared to some of the material that came before. I did find the twileks to be rather cringe-inducing clichéd ‘90’s cyberpunk (if that’s the right word?) stereotypes and I think they brought the whole episode down a notch.
The latest episode once again suffered from either some poor casting choices, weak direction, or maybe a bit of both. It was a decent story and had some pretty good bits and pieces, it also had some major issues and the whole just didn’t gel properly for me. I think the last two episodes have been the weakest so far and I hope the final two episodes swing back to the greatness of the first four.
Star Wars (A New Hope) - man, I haven’t seen the episode IV subtitle since the 2006 GOUT discs came out. The main title recedes ridiculously fast, it almost made me laugh!
Even at lowly 1080p the new Disney+ version looks really nice. A MASSIVE improvement over the clips I’ve seen from the dvd or BD versions.
As I said, I’ve not watched any of the SEs since the days of VHS, and I’ve never watched any SE iteration beyond the 1997 cuts. For the most part, I dislike the changes and find them obtrusive and distracting. I will admit I actually like the Biggs scene in the hangar and the new fix to Obi-wans lightsaber. Everything else sucks.
Of all things, the change I actually dislike the most is the changes to the battle of Yavin. I’m a huge fan of models and miniatures, both in film effects and as a hobby in real life. Seeing all the beautiful artistry replaced with crummy 90’s cgi was just painful.
But despite the hindrance of being the SE, it’s still such a great film. It’s been very fun watching this from an “in-universe” historical perspective seeing the old republic fall, the rise of the empire, and all the little details in the films about such things. I think Solo and Rogue One do a fantastic job bridging the gap between the PT and the OT.
It’s also been fun seeing how the little details in the PT and those two Disney films line up with the backstory given through the dialogue of ANH.
It has also put something into perspective that’s always been there but didn’t really register before. The empire has been in control for about two decades, give or take. Which is long enough to feel like “forever” to many people but it’s still relatively new in terms of massive empires and there’s lots of little details pointing out how they don’t have complete and total control yet and they are still struggling to get it.
I dunno, it’s just been interesting watching the galaxy go from long peace to this huge civil war to a totalitarian dictatorship and how even under the empire the turmoil is still bitter and ongoing. Anakin never achieved his goal of ending the conflict, which I think will give even more impact to his plea for Luke to join him and rule the galaxy as father and son when I watch ESB in a few days…
Sifo Dyas said:
I didn’t know about this Yojimbo film, but I guess for a good reason.
If you reuse something you should make it better, as all of those pictures you mentioned here did.
What makes you think that’s true? If you’ve never, by your own admission, even heard of them? Because I assure you it is not.
Oof I’m glad you got to this before I did. Yojimbo is a SPECTACULAR film and very much the better of the two.
Jedit: oh geez, I just realized he’s also implying Magnificent Seven is an improvement over Seven Samurai…! Egad!
Return of the jedit:
I should’ve read his whole post before commenting! If you didn’t realize that Magnificent Seven was a blatant remake of Seven Samurai, then you had never seen Seven Samurai. Same goes for Yojimbo/Fistful of Dollars.
Your argument is preposterous. I stand by my statement that it doesn’t matter if it’s been done before, all that matters is how well THIS version does it.
Meh, I like the ensemble cast as is. I agree Chirrut and K2 are my favorites, but I thoroughly enjoy Baze and his brotherhood with Chirrut (plus the little dynamic of the still deeply faithful and the guy who lost his religion still being such tightly knit friends). I also really like Cassian (can’t wait for that D+ show!) and Jyn has grown on me a lot. I’ve had the opposite reaction to whoever said their rating has dropped; I love this movie more each time I watch it.
Well, I don’t have a 4K set, but I watched ANH last night in 1080p and it looked fantastic. The color timing looked extremely similar to 4K77, which is a very good thing, imo. And yeah, like others have said, many of the screenshots posted showing the colors being really washed out do NOT represent how it looked when I watched it. It was very nice looking and a real breath of fresh air compared to every other release from the past 14 years.
JEDIT: just checked on my iPad and ANH looks just as good. I did have to remember to turn my screen brightness back up. Normally I turn the brightness down to about 50% or less, but when watching videos (any videos, not just Disney+) I have to turn it up to 80%-100% for the contrast to be reasonable.
Rogue One - now we’re really getting to the good stuff. I love this movie to death! It’s not perfect, the ending gets a bit too convoluted for its own good. But I don’t care. This movie is mid 90’s EU come to life in the best possible way!
Speaking of the ending, I do think it could’ve been reworked a little to be less convoluted. There are two main issues.
First, the whole bit about “they’ve closed the shield and we’re trapped. But we can transmit the data. But we have to open the shield to do that, which would let us escape anyway…” I think this could’ve been easily handled by just saying “they’ve closed the shield, we’re trapped and have no way to get the plans out. They have to break the shield. We can transmit the plans to make sure they get out and then try to figure out a way off this planet.”
The second issue is the whole “master switch” business. They could’ve simplified this by having pretty much all the same events transpire, but with the goal simply being to run the cord from Bhodi’s ship to an imperial comm outpost so he can broadcast his message to the rebel fleet. No convoluted master switch business to muddy up the proceedings.
But it only took me watching the film a dozen times to come up with those ideas, so I don’t hold it against the filmmakers too much.
Otherwise I love this movie and everything about it. I rank it behind only Star Wars and ESB among the theatrical films.