I don't think there's any problem with the shaft being there. It's a shaft down to the reactor core if I remember rightly. It's exactly the kind of thing I can imagine Palpatine doing - wanting to be able to look down at the awesome power of his creation. Of course, as Luke says, his overconfidence is his weakness, and it ends up being his undoing.
Damn...missed my chance.
(that won't stop me donating again, before anyone snaps :P)
haha!
Also, if it wasn't for Obi Wan describing Luke's father as "the best star pilot in the galaxy, a cunning warrior, a good friend" in A New Hope, I'd go so far as to say that all that would need doing to preserve the impact in ESB would be to remove all reference to the name Skywalker in the PT as well as the twins being born/rehomed as this would remove any connection between Anakin and Luke.
As it stands, it's obvious who Obi Wan is talking about, even though he was anything but "a good friend".
Bingowings said:Perhaps the motion of a TIE-fighter could cover the wipe (nothing says OT to me more than a TIE) :
I really like this idea. Coupled with the imperial march chiming in at the right moment, this would give me goosebumps!
Bingowings said:My idea was to have Grievous do the falling down thing so popular with Star Wars characters (he has already done the hand cut off thing).
Which would possibly mean making a model with the new head and filming it tumbling to an uncertain end.
If all direct references to Anakin being Vader until the end, were removed it would leave a question mark over which one is Vader.
You could even redub his lines so Grievous says something about learning from every fight he has had with Obi-Wan so he is a pupil of his 'from a certain point of view'.
Grievous has spent a lot of time hunting down and destroying Jedi.
Haven't figured out how Obi-Wan can get away with the betraying and murdering line yet though.
I think the line "who was a pupil of mine before he turned to evil" is the most problematic thing to try to account for. If this line didn't exist, we could just assume that Obi Wan is protecting Luke from both the fact that his father turned to the darkside and covering up for having brutally killed him himself.
This is why I've previously proposed a more radical edit of not having Hayden Christensen (or Jake Lloyd) be Anakin at all. That way, we initially assume that Hayden became Vader, and survived his ordeal on Mustafar, and then went on to hunt down the remaining Jedi - one of which would have been Luke's dad. (which accounts for the betrayed and murdered your father line)
Until, that is, it's revealed in ESB that he is in fact Luke's father, and "Hayden", we can assume, died from his injuries (YAY!)
As for actually seeing Anakin in the prequels. Adywan has demonstrated what can be done with the emperor's hologram in ESB:R. We could have Anakin communicating with Obi Wan, or others via hologram, and some wizardry like on the ESB:R Emperor hologram could bring a young Sebastian Shaw to life. Get someone with a similar voice and accent as ROTJ Sebastian Shaw (not that critical seeing as he's got no lungs by that point), and hey presto! Some dialogue between them could also account for the "was once a pupil of mine" line too. Obi Wan, now equal with "Hayden", had begun training a new Apprentice before the events of Episode 3. We could even, at one point, after Hayden "dies", have Sebastian Shaw-Anakin get attacked by an anonymous figure, have the hologram cut out, leading us to think Hayden survived (which would be reinforced by the end montage where we see armoured vader overseeing the death star's construction), and that Shaw-Anakin is now dead, but leaving enough ambiguity so that we can make sense of it come the revelation in ESB. Phew! I'm confusing myself now.
Not sure what scenes or dialogue we have to work with for that, however. One could have the Sebastian Shaw impersonator doing most of the talking if our ObiWan lines are limited. Anyone interested in doing a mockup of a hologram of a young Sebastian Shaw, just to see what it would look like?
Not pretending this isn't a very radical and difficult (probably impossible) edit to pull off, but it's the absolute only way I can think of to account for the prequels ruining the impact of Empire. This would then cease to be Anakin's story, but Obi Wan's in the PT, who then passes the torch to Luke in the OT to carry on the hero's journey.
EDIT: Here's an example of a young Sebastian Shaw as a Jedi. Sorry I couldn't find a bigger size.
Post edited. Had missed Ady's post stating that those 2 things would be the only things changed. Sorry.
Have just seen, after a long absence, what Ady said about maybe going back to tinker with ANH:R. So much for what he said about NEVER going back to it again :)
Only thing I'm confused about, didn't he lose his project? Does this mean he'd have to go through the whole entire process again? Ouch. I'm assuming using his dvd as a source for further changes would result in a loss of quality.
My wishlist:
I personally don't mind the torture droid needle either way. Colour me unconcerned about that.
Straight cut instead of a fade in Mos Eisley. I have nothing at all against using fades in general, but it just sticks out like a sore thumb for me because it's the only fade still in the film as far as I can tell (as well as in the upcoming revisteds I'm assuming). All the other original fades have been replaced with straight cuts or wipes. Restoring just one of them to a fade seems a bit inconsistent to me. Not a big deal though.
Tweak the Snivvian's mesh warp animations. I think because it's been animated far more extensively than the other Cantina aliens (which were mostly just blinks and frowns) it's ended up less convincing (to me anyway).
I LOVE the music in Obi Wan's death. Only thing that needs to be done (maybe Ady tried this first time around. i don't know) is to soften the *plink* sound as it speeds back up. It's just slightly jarring.
Also - If this does happen. Please please PLEASE give it the full treatment. DVD-9 in both PAL and NTSC. It would be a real shame if your final, definitive version was lacking in that department. Go big or go home :)
EDIT: I seem to have overlooked Ady's follow up post, stating that only 2 changes tops would be made. Sorry.
Been away from these boards for a while due to problems with my computer.
Going back to the topic of lightsaber colours (don't shoot me) I think the only Jedi in the PT that should possibly have Green is Qui Gon. He was always portrayed as a Maverick who is at odds with the council, and it just seems like the kind of thing he'd do.
Dooku's should be blue. The mere fact that he's fighting his own shows he's renegade. We don't need a new colour to show that.
The ANH:R version of Obi Wan/Vader dueling, at least to me, brought the duel a little closer to the PT. The shot of Vader blocking Obi Wan's saber in a close-up shot of Vader's head reminded me heavily of a similar shot in TPM when a close-up shot of Maul showed him blocking both Obi Wan's and Qui Gon's sabers. But the original version of the duel wasn't very good anyhow, since the choreography wasn't very well done, so the edit improves upon it a lot. The ESB duel doesn't need re-editing other than special effects (think: glowing burns added in to where the saber hits metal, etc.)
ROTJ has a decent duel, but I never really liked the duel after Luke screams "NEVER!" because it looks like Luke is barely even touching Vader's saber half the time, as he swings wildly like someone who has never been in a duel before, even though he fought Vader in the previous movie! The music in those moments is what truly saves the duel from looking terrible. Just watch it without music and it looks silly. The bad thing is, not much can be done to fix that.
Slightly off topic, but if Ady felt inclined to, I'm sure he can fix the problems you're referring to. If he can make the cup line up with the alien's mouth in cantina in ANH:R, then perhaps he can make the sabers more convincingly make contact. He managed to work wonders on the Vader/Obi Wan fight. Perhaps we have a similar overhaul in store for ROTJ :)
These pictures are amazing. Really makes the cg look tangible now!
Also, I'd be very interested in a color corrected version of Clones. Would save me doing it myself :P
I think it's certainly doable to preserve the revelation in ESB. The PT just needs to be cut to shreds to get rid of all the needless explanations. As well as to make Anakin more coherent with the good man he's made out to be by Obi Wan in the OT.
The changes I think need to be made:
Omit the name Skywalker
Cut Anakin's whininess/slimyness and generally being an asshole. Existing edits have already proved this is possible.
Make his turn more gradual and make it a seduction rather than a calculated decision. The way it is now is just awful.
No Vader in armour. The last we see of Anakin is being defeated on Mustafar.
Never have Padme tell Anakin about the baby. Never have the babies named and never see where they end up.
Hmmmm, but then again, Obi Wan talking about Luke's father in the hut does strongly hint that it's the guy from the prequels. Gah!
SilverKey said:
It's an interesting idea, brash_stryker, but I think you'll hit a couple of snags when you go that route. The PT is pretty much Anakin's story. Your idea would require it to be Obi-Wan's story, but Obi-Wan's part is way too small for that in TPM. Also, Obi-Wan is way too young in TPM to have had an apprentice before he finds Anakin.
And if Hayden isn't Anakin, what would his arc be then? It wouldn't be too good for Obi-Wan's character if he has had not just one but two apprentices who turned to the Dark Side. And if you are going to make Hayden turn to the Dark Side in your edit, how are you going to do that? Because from the OT we kinda know that Anakin was seduced by Palpatine. If we see Hayden's character seduced by Palpatine in your edit, this is then supposed to have happened twice (to the Anakin we don't see, and to Hayden's character).
Once again, it's an interesting idea, but in my opinion, it's quite problematic. But I do think it would keep the punch in the ESB reveal, and might even make it bigger.
Scratch the Hayden isn't Anakin idea. My idea now is that he's still Anakin, but never referred to as Skywalker :) Because the name Anakin isn't mentioned until ROTJ this would be no problem in preserving the mystery.
adywan said:The only thing i would change in ANH:R is the torture droid needle. it really didn't turn out the way i wanted it to. Apart from that i'm happy with what i was able to do
I actually really liked the torture droid needle. I disagree with other people's comments about it looking like a "mini lightsaber". It just looks like it's electrically charged to me. I think it works well.
Yay! Recognition! :P
I think coupled with some edits that seperate Anakin from Vader (and no Vader in freaking armour) this could be a double whammy of revelations in ESB.
Wait......does Obi Wan even say the name Anakin in ANH? I just skipped through the hut scene and didn't notice it mentioned.
I think I may be onto something :)
All that would need doing to the prequels that way is remove the name skywalker and remove the twins being named and delivered to Alderaan and Tatooine.
This could work!
As someone has already mentioned, the only way this could be fixed is by doing a radical edit of ANH (which I'm against as this would mean making the OT fit with the PT) or somehow giving Obi Wan another apprentice in the prequels - impossible.
Going back to my radical idea before (which was pretty much shot down by most people) the way to fix both in one fell swoop would be to not have Anakin appear in the prequels at all. Hayden is named something else. Let's just call him Puke Whinetalker. That way, in ANH, we think he is referring to Hayden's character when he says "a pupil of mine until he turned to evil" but then it turns out it's not that guy at all, and he was just saying it to spare Luke's feelings.
If Obi Wan never referred to Luke's father as "Anakin" in the hut scene in ANH, things would be a lot simpler. All that would need to be done is omit the name Skywalker from the prequels entirely. That way, we still have a hunch that Vader is Hayden, but no idea that he is Luke's father.
You could wish "I'd done that." for an eternity though, something will always come up. You always add on stuff later anyway. I think I had better leave this forum for a while (to vbangle's and some others delights), perhaps even a year, it's making me nuts. It will be done when it's done doesn't fly, we've only got so many years to live. That's why I sometimes hate the criticism some filmakers get, they actually have deadlines not indefinite time periods. Call me whatever you want, impatient, bratty, prick, whatever variant insulting synonym you can think of. I'm trying not to be a prick but it's hard to hit a moving target. It's line seeing the finish line up a head with joy, then someone moves it out further again, and again, and again.
So much for a Christmas 09 release, or even release for ESB's 30th Ann. next year. If it's going to take forever we should at least get more trailers, those who don't want to be spoiled don't have to watch them, no one is forcing them. I am willing to donate more if we can get some of that stuff. Willing to donate quite a bit more actually. I want to support this project being that ANH:R is the only version of ANH I watch now. It's beyond terrific.
You seem to have a problem with Ady taking time to perfect the project, yet at the same time, you praise ANH:R as "beyond terrific". Haven't you considered that Ady probably adopted this "done when it's done" attitude with ANH:R too? If he'd rushed it as you seem to want him to do with ESB:R, then it might not have been as great as it is.
I don't think Ady owes us any trailers either. Bit of a contradiction you saying that we should get them, as this would be time better spent working on the actual edit.
oh_riginal said:The argument of the rationale of long hair, at least to me, can also apply to him having hair at all! He died bald... why is he not bald??
Just a thought.
Beat me to it.
Also the fact he's wearing robes he never wore even as a Jedi.
I think the longer hair could work if done right. Adds some much needed continuity, short of superimposing a young Sebastian Shaw's face over Hayden's mug in the prequels.
Really impressive. If i hadn't already cut that scene, I'd be considering doing the same :)
DuTwan said:
Hey guys, since ppl hated the hayden insert into ROTJ i thought what could i do to try and bring hayden to sebastian shaw. So after a couple of quick ideas i thought this is the most simple. I have made the hair slightly longer but not as long as hayden's. So half way between old anakin and new. Added scar the the left eye too, not too noticable but not distracting either lol. Hope u guys enjoy!
Cant help but see the Doc Brown when i look at sebastian shaw lmao. No! Marty! Gotta go to light speedlight but we need a current of 10 gigawatts!!!
I think this is a VERY good idea. It immediately makes him more recognisable as the guy in the prequels, rather than a whole different person.
Also, WHAT THE HELL IS A GIGAWATT?! :P
Unless you can make unmasked vader look like Hayden, I see no point in including a ghost hayden even if it morphs.
I'd be fairly happy with Hayden appearing as a ghost if it matched up with unmasked Vader (except for his child molester grin)
Serji-X Arrogantus said:brash_stryker said:I'm guessing you're not at liberty to give us a peek :p
I could, but then I'd have to take you to Anchorhead and have your memory erased :) So a bit of a waste of time showing you it !!
Fair enough :)
I've said before I'd rather be surprised and watch it without many spoilers anyway. It's going to be like watching it for the first time again :D
Wow....
