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auraloffalwaffle

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23-Jun-2006
Last activity
6-May-2011
Posts
766

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Post
#255791
Topic
Anyone see ER last week (11-02-06)? RE: Padme's death
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/255791/action/topic#255791
Time
Originally posted by: CO
I am a guy, but after seeing how Lucas ruined Padmes character arc in ROTS I have to say, "You can tell a man wrote that plot point." Originally posted by: Darth Sheba
LOL! Too right! GL seems to have a great deal of trouble with female characters as a whole. He starts off strong, then they fade into the background as they go along.
I agree completely! I think Leia is less well served by ROTJ than the other movies of the OOT, but the character of Padme never becomes an independent character. This is part of the more general aspect of the PT that its focus is much more narrow than the OOT. It's Lil' Orphan Annie's story and everyone else is there just for their relationship to him. They're all background to his story. Padme is just there to be a love interest for Annie. She never really becomes anything more than that. At least Leia, in ANH and ESB, gives you the impression that she is an independent person of great importance to the Rebellion. She is an equal presence to Luke and Han. I love the way ESB, IMHO the best scripted of all the SW films, gives equal time to all three main characters and none of them are there just to fill a need in the story of one of them.
Post
#254662
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254662/action/topic#254662
Time
Originally posted by: Commander Courage
The way I see it, if we're doing away with the concept of "Darth" being a Sith title, it shouldn't be a personalized Sith title, either ... this is one area where I think a direct parallel isn't necessary. I dunno, I still like the idea of the Sith taking new names when they become a Sith Lord. On the other hand, maybe taking the title of 'Lord' is change enough? I'll keep thinking...Originally posted by: JamesEightBitStar
Even "Obi-Wan Kenobi" is a bit more traditional ... I've never really liked this trend towards "nonsense" names that the EU showed.
I dunno about "Obi-Wan Kenobi" and "Han Solo" sounding natural - I wonder if that's because they have become familiar names, rather than sounding natural to start with. As for the nonsense names of the EU, I think I object to it most when the name is intentionally or, even worse, unintentionally funny. Jar Jar Binks is pretty bad but, I have to say, I think Mace Windu is one of the worst. Sounds like some kind of cleaning product for windows. As for Count Dooku and General Grievous, I think those are some of the laziest villain names in cinema!

I think some new names are inevitable and making them sound "otherworldly" can be a positive thing, particularly for non-human characters. The idea of "Jai-Yun Skywalker" stems from thinking along far eastern lines, to maintain the similarity of the Jedi to far eastern traditions.

I'm actually starting to think of an overall concept for the saga of identity. Changing one's name is only part of that. Add to that the cloning issues, issues of parenthood and kinship and issues of right and wrong and you've got a lot of good stuff to get your teeth into!
Post
#254537
Topic
Calling all HALLOWEEN fans...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254537/action/topic#254537
Time
I didn't watch any horror movies on Hallowe'en. I just had to confess that to someone. I feel dirty...

As far as no decent horror movies being made, I'm afraid that, once again, there seems to be a preoccupation with only considering Hollywood fare. What about Ring? The Eye? There are some really great horror movies coming from the far east at the moment. I go to an international horror film festival every year in April and there's always plenty of new stuff to watch. It's not all top notch, but to say that there's been no good horror movies since The Sixth Sense is totally unfair.

EDIT: Hey! Post #500!
Post
#254523
Topic
Jedi as ninja
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254523/action/topic#254523
Time
Why do you consistently suggest that I'm talking about spelling everything out? Do you really have such a low opinion of my intelligence or are you deliberately trying to undermine my arguments by suggesting my stupidity to others?

I agree with Wesyeed, that the Sith Order would probably have more in common with Ninja than the Jedi but, since they represent the two sides of the same coin, there is no reason why they might not both develop skills in this area.
Post
#254513
Topic
Jedi as ninja
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254513/action/topic#254513
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
The fact that Yoda talks about how a Jedi should only use the Force for knowledge and defense -never- attack is indicative that their acting as Generals leading "pre-emptive" attacks on the Separatist as a perversion of the ways of the Jedi.
This is my point, though. The PT doesn't convey that in itself. If the saga is to be watched 1-6, then I think that's a problem.
Post
#254484
Topic
Jedi as ninja
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254484/action/topic#254484
Time
I'm referring not just to what is said but also what is implied. Ben tells us more than just a role in the Old Republic. He tells us that they were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic for over a thousand generations. He talks about how the Empire, through Darth Vader, brought down this ancient order to the point that it has been virtually eradicated. This little scene tells us a hell of a lot about who the Jedi were and what happened to them.

So, in the PT we never got to see Jedi actually acting as diplomats, which, to be honest, seems a bit weird for Jedi Knights to be doing anyway. In my opinion, there was never anything in the PT that would support the conclusion that their becoming generals in the Clone Wars was any kind of perversion. It just happens without anyone or anything suggesting that it may not be such a good idea. The "Jedi Council" turned out to be a bunch of random Jedi sitting about not doing or saying very much of any interest. The link between the Jedi and the Republic is not made clear. It is implied but it still seems a bit ad hoc. The glimpses of "Jedi politics" from Ben and Mannequin are pretty unedifying, demonstrating Mannequin's ignorance and Ben's apparent inability to teach him anything.

My point is that, in a few simple lines, delivered with depth and insight by a great actor, we learn a great deal about the Jedi Order. In three whole films, I don't think the PT managed to convey nearly so much as that one scene in ANH about the antiquity and importance of the Jedi Order in the Old Republic.
Post
#254370
Topic
Jedi as ninja
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254370/action/topic#254370
Time
See, my point is that I don't think the PT provides enough context to conclude that. I would suggest that you're basing that reading of the PT on more than just the films themselves. I don't think our understanding of the Jedi Order is deepened by the PT and I don't think it provides anything against which to judge that the Jedi got it wrong. The fact that you are defeated doesn't always mean that you acted wrongly.

Deepening our understanding of the Jedi Order, and the Sith Order come to that, in ways such as JamesEightBitStar is suggesting, would have given us more with which to compare the actual decisions and actions of the characters. I'm not talking about having my hand held, as you so generously suggested. I'm talking about an expression of the antiquity of the Jedi and Sith Orders and the beliefs and traditions they represent. The short scene in Ben's hut on Tatooine expresses more about the Jedi order than the whole PT, in my opinion.
Post
#254313
Topic
Jedi as ninja
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254313/action/topic#254313
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
... there is so much room for interpretation that hearing other points of view can become almost addicting.
I'm with you there!

I still think the PT would benefit from more exploration of the Jedi Order and I definitely think that more Jedi than just Yoda should have been worried about getting involved with a war. Also, Yoda included, the Jedi seemed very keen to use their lightsabres. Surely, in an order devoted to peace and justice, we would see at least some of them resist using force until absolutely necessary and, even then, using Force manipulations to deal with their opposers, rather than cutting them up with their lightsabres? Particularly Yoda, as many have observed before. Surely he, of all the Jedi, would use the Force to defend himself? He wouldn't even need a lightsabre, surely?
Post
#254306
Topic
Jedi as ninja
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254306/action/topic#254306
Time
I would have liked to have seen more about the Jedi in the PT. I think some expression of these traditions and attitudes would have been worth having. I was also surprised by how little resistance to the idea of using violence there was among the Jedi. Only Master Yoda seemed at all worried about where things were going. I feel that there was very little context provided from which one could judge the Jedi's decisions and actions as being indicative of a loss of their values or of their complacency.
Post
#254303
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254303/action/topic#254303
Time
Exactly. As mentioned on another thread (I can't remember which one!), this tradition of taking a new name when you achieve a new rank or status exists in the far east but friends and family continue to call each other by their birth names. I think it's the most satisfying explanation for why Ben hasn't been called Obi-Wan since before Luke was born.

JamesEightBitStar, would you prefer to have all SW characters named with familiar western names, rather than made-up stuff like 'Obi-Wan' and 'Han' and so on?

I like the idea of Anakin taking a Jedi name of some kind and then have Luke take the same name when he becomes a Jedi. It fits with Luke's attitude towards the image of his father and the main driving force behind his decision to become a Jedi in the first place.

So, we have one vote for Jai-Yun Skywalker and no votes for Kol Vader.

Commander, don't you think it would be worthwhile to see similar traditions observed in the Sith Order as in the Jedi Order? I think it is an interesting aspect to bring out in the story that there are many things that link the Jedi and Sith, representing, as they do, two sides of the same coin. I take it that we both agree that all Sith taking the name 'Darth Such-and-such' is a lazy one? I thought that was very crap in Luca$h's PT. If 'Darth' is Vader's Sith name, it adds edge to Ben's use of it and not his birth name during their final duel in ANH, don't you think?
Post
#254166
Topic
Jedi as ninja
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254166/action/topic#254166
Time
Thanks for the link, Go-Mer-Tonic. I found it very interesting reading. I was especially interested in the mention of the so-called 'Form Zero', which represents the Jedi's actions when not using a lightsabre and their decision whether or not to use their weapon. It made me think of the episode in the first series of the Clone Wars cartoon with Mace Windu fighting droids after losing his lightsabre. I do feel that there was never enough of 'Form Zero' in the PT.

Now, as interesting as all of the info is, I can honestly say that it was all new to me. My point is that, despite having seen the PT, none of this was communicated to me. I am not a reader of EU novels, comics or games. I've seen the first series of Clone Wars and that's really it. None of this extensive groundwork, whether set out by Luca$h or EU authors or both, made it to the screen in any meaningful way for me. Simply watching the PT did not provide me with any real insight into the Jedi Order.
Post
#254152
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254152/action/topic#254152
Time
Well, if the aim is to provide a backstory for ANH, don't you think Owen being a Jedi would jar with the way Ben speaks about him?

Also, I see where you're going with the Willow reference. Would Luke's mother be sneaking him out just before she's executed, then?

I was thinking about Jedi names the other day. I like the idea of apprentices taking a new name when they become Jedi Knights, meaning that Ben Kenobi took the Jedi name Obi-Wan when he became a Jedi Knight. When he went into hiding he stopped using his Jedi name.

This lead to the thought that, if I proceed with my idea that Anakin Skywalker becomes a Jedi Knight before he is murdered by Darth Vader, then Anakin would take a Jedi name. I also think that 'Darth' would be Vader's Sith name and therefore would have had a different first name up until he became a Sith Lord. I do not like the idea of all Sith taking 'Darth' as their first name.

I came up with Anakin taking the name Jai-Yun Skywalker and Ben's apprentice being called Kol Vader.

I further like the idea of Luke taking Jai-Yun as his Jedi name, in memory of his father(?).

Any thoughts? Anybody think those name ideas are crap?
Post
#253939
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253939/action/topic#253939
Time
These are very interesting ideas! As I've posted earlier, I like the idea of the Clone Wars being caused by the distrust and confusion created by clones infiltrating society and being used as spies and assassins. These ideas are so much more interesting than what Luca$h provided, I think!

The idea of the original and clone Anakins siring a child each by two different women is an interesting spin to put on things! You could follow that train of thought to say that Luke might be the only person who senses his sibling. Ben and everyone else could be oblivious to the existence of another child. The mother could go to the other side of the galaxy before the child is born and then they stay hidden until Luke tracks them down. But what would happen to Luke's mother for him to end up with no memory of her and living with Owen and Beru?
Post
#253165
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253165/action/topic#253165
Time
James, I like the way you think! Mostly because it's also the way I think. And the Commander. We've both agreed that keeping Vader and Anakin as separate characters is the way to go. Can I suggest casting an eye over all the posts in this thread? You'll see the ideas posted by various members, including me and the Commander. You might get a few more ideas, there's some crackin' posts in here!
Post
#253023
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253023/action/topic#253023
Time
Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Also, about collaboration, I would be interested in playing a part in your re-write, auraloffalwaffle, if only as a "creative consultant." I think our ideas on the saga mesh well and as I've said I've already tried this once before. So if you need someone for in-depth discussion and feedback, I'd be willing to fill that role.
To tell the truth, that's largely how I've been approaching this thread. I regard it as an opportunity for us all to act as creative consultants on each other's projects. I certainly value the feedback I've been getting here very highly.
Post
#252950
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252950/action/topic#252950
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
So if anything, Midichlorians upholds what you would like the Force concept to be, whereas without them, you had to be related to someone strong in the Force. That's not the case. As I have stated, the information we have from SW '77 and ESB '80 suggests that who you're related to has nothing to do with your abilities. You aquire Force-sensitivity and the ability to manipulate the Force through training alone. The hereditary aspects were brought in by ROTJ and the idea of midichlorians are a direct result of that.Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
As far as how Palpy avoided the Midi Test, he is a Sith Lord in hiding. Sith wouldn't be taking their babies in for Republic testing, because that would give them away as Force sensitives.
He wasn't a Sith Lord in hiding when he was born. Are you suggesting that one or both of his parents were Sith?