alexp120

Anakin94 said:

With AudaCity i can only adjust in 0,001% steps and this is not accurate enough.

How ‘not accurate’ are we talking about?

When you are using Audactiy and lining-up the two files—a reel from the DTS audio file and 1997-reference audio file—how ‘out-of-sync’ is the DTS audio file away from the 1997 reference audio file?

Bear in mind that one film-frame is displayed at approximately 42 milliseconds when projected at either 24fps or 23.976fps. So, if both audio files start at the same time but the DTS audio drifts out-of-sync by more or less than 42 milliseconds by the end of one reel, then you have a problem where you will notice the audio being out-of-sync with the frames. So your goal is to use Audactiy to adjust the duration of the DTS audio to be as close to the reference audio as possible—well below 42 milliseconds. For example, if the closest that Audacity can get to encoding the duation of the DTS audio to match the duration of the reference-audio is 20 milliseconds behind the reference-audio, then I would slide the encoded DTS audio so that it starts 10 milliseconds after the start of the reference audio and ends at 10 milliseconds before the reference audio. And you would be doing that for each audio reel. When you are watching the film with your edited audio-track, your brain won’t notice the 10 millisecond out-of-sync error.

Anakin94 said:

Hey,
i wanted to sync the german cinema DTS audiofiles for the ROTJ Special Edition.
The video is from the Gkar release.
I cutted the 7 audio reels good as i can.
But i have 4 problems.

1. The framerate.
   The DTS files doesn’t seem to be 23,976 or 24,00 fps.
   It’s more like between 23,998 and 23,999 fps.
   Why is this happen, is that a known issue?
   And also every reel seem to be a bit different.

2. Did i have to stretch the audio with pitch correction, so that the pitch be same as before stretching?

If it were me, I would go with the easiest and match the duration of the DTS audio files to 23.976fps. I would use the audio from the 2011 Blu Ray cut as a guide to sync up the speed of the DTS audio, because

alexp120 said:
Both the 1997 and the 2011 Blu Ray cuts are of the same length for the first 2 hours, 5 minutes and 55 seconds. It is when you reach the Victory Celebration that the cuts go out-of-sync with each other as the 2011 cut adds 5.626 seconds during that sequence–it would be in the Naboo footage where a gungan says, “Me’s a free!”.

Then, check the frame rate of the Gkar version—you can use the free app, MediaInfo. If it is at 23.976fps, then all you have to do is mux the audio and video together and you should be good–again, presuming that the Gkar version is 1997 frame-complete.

As for pitch correction, there will be a change in pitch when you alter the speed of audio, but the difference in how the audio sounds between 23.999fps and 23.976fps is not really very noticeable.

While waiting for the authentic German sound-mix of Special Edition 1997 to turn-up, here is an alternative you can use from the existing 2011 Blu Ray mix.

Both the 1997 and the 2011 Blu Ray cuts are of the same length for the first 2 hours, 5 minutes and 55 seconds. It is when you reach the Victory Celebration that the cuts go out-of-sync with each other as the 2011 cut adds 5.626 seconds during that sequence–it would be in the Naboo footage where a gungan says, “Me’s a free!”.

All you would have to do is trim-out those 5+ seconds, apend the two parts together, and boom!–instant 1997 length–provided that the G’ker version is frame-complete.

Although not a feature-length video, there is the project, 'Star Wars: Leftovers"-- a 43-minute video featuring a collection of deleted scenes, arranged in film order, from ANH. One of the audio tracks has production-sound without the music score, so perhaps you can compose a suite-score for that video.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-Leftovers-A-Collection-of-Raw-Footage-and-Deleted-Scenes-Released/id/82752

Discussions of feature-length audio screening recordings from the first two films can be found in the following links:

70mm screenings
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/1977-70mm-soundtrack-recording/id/5690/page/1
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/1977-70mm-Soundtrack-Recording/id/5685
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Question-on-the-1977-70mm-Soundtrack-Recording/id/9781
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/ESB-70mm-Soundtrack-1980-in-theatre-recording/id/12501/page/1

Discussion of another audio recording of a SW (ANH) screening, called ‘Scofield,’ can be found here:
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Scofield-version-SW-theater-recording-1977-Released/id/14077
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Is-this-amateur-audio-recording-of-any-use/topic/14000/

PolloTropical said:

I can’t get the 5.1 mix to work on Star Wars 77, any advice?

I think you better give us waaaaay more details. How are you playing this?

The picture’s running time is 2 hours and 19 minutes which is a combination of two acts—act one includes Overture and Intermission, and the 2nd act includes entr’acte. It is very likely that the station airing the film—TCM—may use the remaining 19 minutes to air promotions of their other programs and some other clips.

jimbotron235 said:
It has nothing to do with frame rate. Besides, I de-interlaced and converted the DVD video to 23.976 before building the edit.

The AC3 track (and LD for that matter) can’t be added untouched. The director’s cut video has dozens of shots that are 1-2 frames shorter as compared to the theatrical cut. This results in numerous instances where the video and DVD/LD audio go out of sync. I can fix this here and there by inserting duplicate frames where appropriate but for shots where a judder would be noticeable, I have to trim the audio by the appropriate amount of time, and then export the edited audio track.

I meant, use the AC-3 track from the 1997 DVD release which was the theatrical cut, instead of the 2002 ‘director’s cut’ DVD.

@jimbotron235:

Why bother transcoding the AC-3 track at all? Keep the AC-3 track untouched and mux it to the final edit of your project.

The fps (frames per second) from the DVD—29.97fps—and the fps from the Blu Ray—23.976fps—are one in the same—both audio tracks will have the same duration.

If you didn’t change the speed of the AC-3 audio when you imported it to Premiere, then by all means, keep the audio you have in Premiere as a guide when you are editing–so long as your final edit is at the fps of 23.976.

When you export the video with that audio, mux the DVD’s AC-3 track to your edit. Compare the speed of both AAC and AC-3 tracks and see for yourself if they are sync’d properly.

Sremrofsnart said:

I genuinely hope that the ESB Tape still exists, such recordings are movie history!!!

Not from ‘Protocol Droid’, but there is a feature-length audio recording of the limited-edition screening from ESB that was taken during the 1st four weeks of the film’s release. The audio features alternate lines and sound-FX.

You can read the details, here.
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Hopefully-the-last-70mm-vs-35mm-ESB-audio-differences-thread/id/14128/page/1

You can download the individual audio files of that screening from the uploader’s blog:
http://wideanglecloseup.com/starwarsaudio.html

Here’s a fan-made video-sample of that recording.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmbl8tLOfFE

Sremrofsnart said:
The Scofield Audio Recording is an priceless Jewel in my Collection and i already tried to sync it up with the Treadwell Cam Video source, its so cool to hear the laughter and mumbling of the Audience. One thing i wonder is if “ProtocolDroid” ever released the Scofield Audio Recording of Empire Strikes Back? I’m curious bc he said that his mother also did an recording there.

I don’t think ‘Protocol Droid’ released that recording. He had been absent from this forum for almost a decade and as of this past summer, he had returned. According to his profile, he checked-in to this forum, yesterday.

Sremrofsnart said:

none said:

Tape Recording of Star Wars In The Theater From 1977 With My Mother by William Forsche

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxBafn2t5v4

Hi, I’m a big fan of movies recorded in theaters where you can still hear the audience sounds and was wondering if anyone here has information on whether a complete recording of the video linked above might exist? Has anyone been able to contact the uploader?

It would mean a lot to me if you could somehow find out or someone here had/has contact with the person.

I need the audio for a project of mine.

There are other feature-length, audio In-theater recordings of these Star Wars films-ANH and ESB.
You can check out these threads for details.

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/1977-70mm-soundtrack-recording/id/5690/page/1
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/1977-70mm-Soundtrack-Recording/id/5685
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Question-on-the-1977-70mm-Soundtrack-Recording/id/9781

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/ESB-70mm-Soundtrack-1980-in-theatre-recording/id/12501/page/1
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Hopefully-the-last-70mm-vs-35mm-ESB-audio-differences-thread/id/14128/page/1
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/70-mm-print-of-the-Empire-Strikes-Back-Differences/id/2321/page/1
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Is-this-amateur-audio-recording-of-any-use/id/14000
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Scofield-version-SW-theater-recording/id/14077/page/1

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Closest-to-1977-release/id/5530/page/2

http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/454292#TopicPost454292

Hi, tomalakis,
Just wondering how that project of yours came out.

Fang Zei said:

Wall-E is getting a Criterion 4k release in November, the first time in years they’ve put out a Disney movie.

I can’t picture Disney licensing out the home video rights of their huge franchise to another home video distributor.

If we can’t find a print of the film that would prove that this alternate edit of the said sequence had existed, then perhaps we can look at the ‘spotting’ notes of music editor, the late Kenneth Wannberg.

Right after a composer is hired to a film, he and the director get together to view the film—from start to finish—and find areas in it where music is needed. This period is known as a spotting session. The music editor is also present during that session as he must take notes on which group of footage needs music.

After the meeting, the music editor takes his notes from that meeting and prepares a typewritten list of action for each music-cue that the director wants. Each action has a time-stamp on the left side. This paperwork is called the spotting notes. It would look like this:

Since Kenneth Wannberg was involved in ‘Star Wars’ for composer John Williams, Wannberg would prepare such a typewritten list for the composer. If this alternate edit for the said sequence existed, then, certainly, one of the shot’s description in Wannberg’s spotting notes would read like this.

“Grapping hook misses beam and falls”

The 2011 cuts are not exactly the same as the 1997 cuts, lengthwise

• For the '11 cut of ESB, the dialogue between Vader and the Emperor has been extended from the '97 cut, which used the '80 dialogue.
• For the '11 cut of ROTJ, the first 2 hours, 5 minutes, and 55 seconds are sync’d with the '97 cut until it reaches the Victory Celebration. From there, an extra 5.626 seconds is added.
• The least change is ANH. The '97 cut runs 792ms longer than the '11 cut–an extra 459ms in the black frames between the fade-out of Luke and the droids entering the garage on Tatooine and the fade-in of 3PO being lowered into the oil bath, and an extra 334ms in the Han/Greedo shootout (if you can call it that).
  EDIT: The 2004 cut of ANH shares the same frame-count length as the 1997 cut. However, the 2004 cuts of ESB and ROTJ do not for the said reasons.

So, work would have to be done to sync the 2011 cut with the 1997 cuts.

timdiggerm said:

alexp120 said:

Or provide a wave file of a M & E (Music and Effects) audio track, so that members can prepare foreign language audio-mixes to your edits.

It could at least be a lossless compressed format (FLAC) to save on online storage size

But this is impossible, as it would first require that Ady has an M&E track of the movie which…no one does outside Lucasfilm?

Since the lengths of Ady’s SW fan-edits are different from the final-theatrical lengths of the films, custom audio-mixes would have been created to conform with the lengths of Ady edits. There are audio-files of the unique sound-effects from the SW franchise that have been collected and stored by the fans and other fans have used these audio files to make custom edits of their favorite SW films. This was the case for these Ady SW fan-edits.

So preparing a Music and Effects audio file–with the English dialogue removed–from these custom audio mixes is possible. It’s just a matter of Ady wanting to do one and share them.

Or provide a wave file of a M & E (Music and Effects) audio track, so that members can prepare foreign language audio-mixes to your edits.

adywan said:
I ahve the ability now to encode a DTS-MA audio file, but the size is just under 5gb. That really eats into available space to fit on a BD-25.

Thank you for providing a lossless audio mix to your fan-edits.

darkzip said:
V2’s upscaling begins!

edit: Son of a Nerf Herder. Windows decided to update during my overnight run. Oh well, I’m going to see if reencoding the already upscaled version to the correct fps fixes the stutter before I try rerunning topaz

I would just start over from the PAL source–that is, if you’ve managed to get one. If there’s a delay in delivering the final product, so be it. We would just have to be patient and wait. We want the final product to be good.

So, thank you for doing it.

To: Bobson Dugnutt

I feel that you should release the deleted-scenes only, as you did for ‘Star Wars: Leftovers’, without doing an extended edit.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-Leftovers-A-Collection-of-Raw-Footage-and-Deleted-Scenes-Released/id/82752

I’m sure that you have a lot of other projects that you want to do, so let someone else use the collection of deleted scenes to produce their own polished fan-edit of ESB.

SOLD OUT!
https://www.academymuseum.org/en/programs/star-wars-017f31fd-10cf-e26f-6c54-ed20a5ac0d79?fbclid=IwAR3kJbDcVz7sj5Ir0XFOurhXtSGncJ59FfeJ0I-4x-2EZruDNvK_njkbMm0

When I was sync’ing those vintage audio recordings of the Star Wars In-theatre screenings to the film’s theatrical versions at 23.976fps, I discovered that the speed on these audio recordings would fluctuate—portions would be faster and other would be slower. I had to make copies of these recordings at different speeds and pick parts from these copies to fit the final length. I came up with an edit of the audio-screenings that were serviceable, even though the audio wasn’t sync’d right-down to the millisecond.

nobodybutjarjar42 said:

the 2011,2013,2015,2019 blu-ray releases have the 2011 isolated score

also doesnt the 2020 blu-ray releases have the same audio just upmixed

Where are you finding that these official Blu Ray releases have the isolated scores on them? My official 2011 Blu Ray discs do not have them, and I would like to know where to get them.

In the meantime…
@That guy with no name
this may not mean much for you, but here is a brief rehearsal video for one of the SW:ANH ‘film-with-live-orchestra’ concerts where there’s no film audio. At the 36-second mark is a performance of the tracked-music for CGI-enhanced ‘stormtropper-search-party-on-Tatooine’ scene.

https://www.facebook.com/QCSymphony/posts/10157051840560170?cft[0]=AZWrT_QlI3_v93HSWx_GYoLEOmG7CBFUA0QOAHbLAdWlFwx38enAQ8Zrh_a13UqMSxCK6xJcipqyYQFKWywceR5xNkiRpjMVA5rPwR1Rw535kgOdkjOl0klt4vVrUIP-TsNXkUa5vyrLESjNlNJRndBUUxfZlIIVwjLCCZD-d4q6Zg&tn=-UC%2CP-R

Why don’t you audition this recording of the Fox-Fanfare made by the National Philharmonic Orchestra/Charles Gerhardt, conductor for their album of ‘ESB’ released by Varese Sarabande.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz5iu_rI6M0

That is, if a 2-channel audio-mix is what you are going for.