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ZkinandBonez

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5-May-2015
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18-Mar-2024
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Post
#913368
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Lord Haseo said:

ZkinandBonez said:
That really would undermine the OT in my opinion.

I don’t care. The OT will always be the OT; future films are going to up the anti in some departments so it seems like an excuse to not do grandiose things regardless of how good they are just because the OT was pretty simplistic in nature. If you can do more/better then why shouldn’t you? Should Stephen Curry not try to become the greatest offensive Basketball player of all time because it would “undermine” Kobe or Jordan? Of course not.

Also I don’t see how him waiting for Palpatine’s demise is a cowardly move, I’d call it tactical and patient.

He didn’t need to wage war with The Empire. He could have just killed Palpatine and assumed control over The Empire. He was at least an expert in the Dark Side at the time so I couldn’t see why he would take the easy way out. If Snoke were Plagueis you’d understand why he’s be more tactful after Palpatine’s assassination attempt.

I do think a new threat with it’s own new backstory would work better than to bring back some name that was given in passing four movies ago

Plagueis pretty much is a new threat. And if Snoke is Plagueis obviously his philosophies have evolved seeing as how he would have abandoned the Rule of Two so his end game could be completely different from what it was when Palpatine attempted to kill him. Furthermore, Snoke being a new character could backfire in so many ways if his back story isn’t written right. It’s the safer and better option (for the Saga at large) to just make him Plagueis.

The only thing I genuinely disagree with here is calling Plageuis the “safer option.”
Many OT fans would be pissed, and as I said earlier, I think you overestimate just how many people would recognize the name. Of course as has been previously suggested, he could be Plageuis, or a Plageuis-type character, without it necessarily emphasizing the ROTS connection. I just don’t see it happening.

(Also, from a EU perspective, wouldn’t it be kind of weird if Plageuis was the one who abandoned the whole Sith-thing and replaced it with the Knights of Ren, while Palpatine/Sidious stuck to the “Darth”'s and the rule of two, etc. considering how he was the rebellious one? It’s been a long time since I read any PT EU, but didn’t Palpatine have Vader kill Sith the same way he did Jedi? He didn’t seem like the kind of guy who was willing to share his power with other sith. He really did seem more like a Dark Jedi with his own ways and agenda.)

Post
#913365
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Dek Rollins said:

ZkinandBonez said:

That’s why I like this forum, people here treat them as works of fiction.

You sure? I’m not convinced.

Well conversations here tend to be related to the making of the films, the quality of them as films, etc, and not too much about the canon or the EU.

Also I wasn’t trying to make some grand claim or anything. Just my general impression.

Post
#913364
Topic
What kind of camera did they use for this ANH scene?
Time

I found this photo via David Prowse’s twitter and I can’t figure out what kind of camera it is. In all the BTS photos I’ve seen from ANH they’ve used Panavision camera, however his looks more like an old technicolour camera. Anyone familiar with what this is?


It looks like one of these old cameras, but I don’t see why ANH would need a three-strip technicolor camera.

Post
#913361
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Lord Haseo said:

ZkinandBonez said:

I should probably have phrased that better. My point was just that they tend to treat the canon almost as they would history. Many fans (not referring to anyone on particular) tend to insist that SW follow a degree of continuity that would makes sense had it been real, but which would only be convoluted in a fictional narrative.
E.g. the whole Snoke is Plageuis thing would be a poor narrative choice

I respectfully disagree. Having the plan of who we regard as the greatest Sith Lord in galactic history to be part of a much larger scheme would give the entire Saga more gravitas. Not only that Plagueis’ midichlorian manipulation (they could call manipulation of the Living Force if they wanted to distance themselves from the PT) could make Plagueis/Snoke the most malignant villain we’ve seen in the Saga.

It’s better than having him be some random guy who just waited for Palpatine to fall in order to rise to power. Would make him look like a bitch. Now if Snoke is some other pres established character I wouldn’t mind that all too much.

Ireally don’t see how making Snoke the ultimate bad-guy in the SW galaxy would be a good narrative choice. That really would undermine the OT in my opinion. Also I don’t see how him waiting for Palpatine’s demise is a cowardly move, I’d call it tactical and patient. Of course he could well end up like that, but depending on how Johnson writes the character, it could potentially be really interesting.
Also when I said that it was a poor narrative choice, I didn’t mean in relation to the lore (heck that was the one thing I was complaining about). I was thinking more in terms of character development. And even Palpatine back in the OT wasn’t really that important, other than his relation to the Luke/Vader conflict. I do think a new threat, with it’s own new backstory would work better than to bring back some name that was given in passing four movies ago. Snoke really only needs to make the character development of Kylo and Rey more interesting. So, sure, him being Plageuis could work if it was made secondary, I just don’t see the point or plausibility of it.

Lord Haseo said:

ZkinandBonez said:

not to mention very confusing to casual viewers.

Most casual viewers should know Plagueis from Palpatine’s teaching in ROTS.

I honestly don’t believe that. Many fans would obviously, but remember that not everyone who watch the SW movies are “fans”. Most people I know would not have had a clue who Plageuis is if it suddenly appeared in the next film(s). Disney’s trying to appeal to more than just the fans here, and Idoubt that Rian Johnson, Abrams, Kasdan, etc. really have any interest in bringing back PT character when they can make their own.

Post
#913356
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

I should probably have phrased that better. My point was just that they tend to treat the canon almost as they would history. Many fans (not referring to anyone on particular) tend to insist that SW follow a degree of continuity that would makes sense had it been real, but which would only be convoluted in a fictional narrative.
E.g. the whole Snoke is Plageuis thing. Sure it could make sense lore-wise, but it would be a poor narrative choice, not to mention very confusing to casual viewers.

EDIT:
Fixed it;

ZkinandBonez said:

I just find these speculations so fascinating. A lot if fans really do seem to forget that these are movies, and behave as if they were real historical events. I understand the need for lore continuity, but they seem to overlook how convoluted these plots would be if the writers had followed their logic.

Post
#913349
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

MalàStrana said:

ZkinandBonez said:
Do people honestly think that Rian Johnson is going to use an EU character as a plot point in the new main trilogy movies?

Well, as I said I don’t think he will, and I don’t think it would even be necessary if Rey was blood-related to Kenobi to show this in the movie (it would be explained in a comic book), I was just trying to use the official canon to see if this idea could find some kind of an explaination somewhere. To my view, Rey is not a Kenobi, and I hope she’s not a Skywalker either (even if she’s probably going to be related to Luke or Leia… or Snoke ?).

Oh I wasn’t pointing the finger at you, I was referring to fans in general who seem to be live this.

I just find these speculations so fascinating. A lot if fans really do seem to forget that these are movies, and behave as if they were real historical events. I understand the need for lore continuity, but they seem to overlook how convoluted these plots would be if the writers had followed their logic.
That’s why I like this forum, people here treat them as works of fiction.

Post
#912972
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

That’s kind of weird considering how, according to Kasdan, Lucas once told him that using the Force was something that anyone could train themselves to do.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/star-wars-prequels-return-of-the-jedi_n_3313793.html

Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it.

Kasdan: Not just the Jedi?

Lucas: It’s just the Jedi who take the time to do it.

Marquand: They use it as a technique.

Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate.

Post
#912941
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

Dek Rollins said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Right, so it’s kind of a telepathic focusing lens.
I guess that might have been an inspiration for the Force. Although it has more of a PT feel to it (e.g. Midichlorians being needed to tap into the Force).

Dune was a bigger influence for the Force, and, as I spoke of earlier, was the reason they changed it in the Lynch film to being a device they use rather than a “force”-like thing.

So there’s no weirding modules in the books?
As a Lynch fan I’ve not seen or read anything Dune related other than his film adaptation.
The Dune books are however on the top of my reading list.

Post
#912911
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

eiyosus said:

ZkinandBonez said:Although it has more of a PT feel to it (e.g. Midichlorians being needed to tap into the Force).

To be fair, midichlorians were something Lucas had in mind back when he wrote Star Wars (according to the guidelines he gave Marvel Comics to follow).

Oh? Where did you read this? I’ve read quite a lot of the Marvel comics and I haven’t come across anything to suggest something similar to Midichlorians.

Post
#912888
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

joefavs said:

I haven’t read the books (yet), but “Lensman” seems to refer to in-universe technology rather than anything in the real world. From the Wikipedia summary of the second Lensman book (which is rather confusingly titled First Lensman):

“. . . He is guided by one of his trusted subordinates to Arisia, a previously unapproachable planet, where he is greeted by a benevolent and telepathic Arisian who presents him with a “Lens”. The Lens is a device that can only be made by the Arisians and that can be worn only by the person that it is exclusively attuned to. It gives its wearer the ability to communicate telepathically with any being or animal with a mind, as well as other powers. The Lens underlies all the remaining stories in the series. Samms is charged with locating all “Lens worthy” individuals and directing them to Arisia to have their own Lens bestowed upon them.”

Right, so it’s kind of a telepathic focusing lens.
I guess that might have been an inspiration for the Force. Although it has more of a PT feel to it (e.g. Midichlorians being needed to tap into the Force).

Post
#912867
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

I already have a copy of the first Dune novel (*technically a tie in to the Lynch film, but that shouldn’t matter) so I’ll probably start there, I own most of the John Carter novels an have already read the first two, and I’m also a big Kurosawa fan already and I have seen pretty much 90% of his films.
I’ll keep VCI in mind when looking for Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers (although I’ll stick to YouTube at the moment), and I’ll do some more research on Lensman and Eric John Stark (both of whom I’d never heard of before).
Thanks for the help.

I forgot to ask about the Asimov books that ATMachine brought up earlier. I looked up the Foundation series, and I’m quite frankly more confused now than I was before I looked it up. Apparently a lot of books are in the Foundation-universe, but most of them don’t relate to the main trilogy. So I’m guessing that the trilogy is where I should start?
Since I’m using SW as an excuse to get into these book, I’ll ignore anything made past 1977 for now at least.


Z6PO said:

The origins of Star Wars : http://kitbashed.com

Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for.
I actually read an article on kitbashed.com a few days ago, but it was about kitbashing for SW so I just assumed that it was a model-making webpage. In retrospect however, I guess kitbashing is actually a pretty good description for what Lucas did when he wrote SW.

joefavs said:

ATMachine said:

EE “Doc” Smith’s Lensman space-opera

I’ve been wracking my brain trying to remember what these books are called for a couple days now. Many thanks.

So what exactly is a “Lensman”?

(It kind of surprised me when I first read it, because for me as a Norwegian I can’t help but think about the Scandiavian “lensmann” which is essentially a rural area police officer.)

Post
#912857
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

Yeah, you’re right Chewbaka, I probably should have made anew thread for this.

I already have a copy of the first Dune novel (*technically a tie in to the Lynch film, but that shouldn’t matter) so I’ll probably start there, I own most of the John Carter novels an have already read the first two, and I’m also a big Kurosawa fan already and I have seen pretty much 90% of his films.
I’ll keep VCI in mind when looking for Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers (although I’ll stick to YouTube at the moment), and I’ll do some more research on Lensman and Eric John Stark (both of whom I’d never heard of before).
Thanks for the help.

Post
#912778
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

SilverWook said:

There seem to be a lot of public domain versions of the Flash serials floating around. The DVD’s released by Image in 2000 are what I have and are pretty decent although unrestored. AFAIK, it’s the only release that has the blessing of King Features Syndicate, and is probably a port of the 1996 Laserdisc sets.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flash-Gordon-Space-Soldiers-Trip-To-Mars-Conquers-the-Universe-DVD-3-disc-set-/252280071115

I bought the big box of Flash, but you can find the individual serials on Ebay. There are shorter “movie edits” I’ve never seen that have also been released, but probably chop out a lot and you lose the cliffhanger effect of the originals.

Not sure if Buck Rogers is in the same boat, as there are fewer editions of it around. This is what I have, about the same in quality as Flash.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buck-Rogers-with-Larry-Crabbe-12-Episodes-DVD-Estate-Listing-/222006409259
Buck initially wasn’t quite as popular as Flash, so Universal only made one serial.

I don’t know if we’re ever going to see an HD release unless somebody pours some money into restoring them. A few Republic Pictures serials have made it to Blu Ray, so anything is possible.

Well, I don’t really too much money to spare on stuff like this at the moment, so I was hoping to find as many of these as I can at the library. I know that they have a DVD set of Flash Gordon Conquers the Universe, so I’ll borrow that the next time I’m in town. However, from what I’ve read it’s the last serial that they produced, so does that mean that I’ll miss a lot of plot, or isn’t that a problem with these old series? I don’t really know how connected these “seasons” are in terms of overall story-arcs.

Either way, I’ll google that first set you linked to to see if I can find it cheaper somewhere else.

Living in Norway can have it’s drawbacks when I’m looking for stuff like this. I’d imagine it’s already somewhat obscure and forgotten in the US, and in Scandinavia where Flash Gordon never existed outside of comics and the 80’s movie, there really isn’t a big market for these kind of imported DVDs, and shipping costs ca be very expensive.
(I guess YouTube might be a decent option though since these are in the public domain?)

Post
#912750
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

ATMachine said:

The titular country of “The Airlords of Han” was actually Han China – being used in the racist Yellow Peril sense, since the villains in Buck Rogers (both the novellas and the early comics) were the soldiers of a Chinese Empire that had managed to conquer America in a sneak attack.

I don’t deny that this is a possible inspiration for Han Solo’s first name. However, it seems to me more likely that the character of Han Pritcher from Isaac Asimov’s Foundation series was more important in this regard.

Pritcher and his partner, Bail Channis (!), are detectives working for the empire of “the Mule,” a dictator who conquered the titular Foundation settlement. Their objective is to find the elusive “Second Foundation,” a group of telepaths seeking to overturn the Mule’s empire and restore the rightful government of the Foundation.

The two operatives eventually succeed in capturing a member of the Second Foundation; unfortunately for the Mule, this doesn’t work out quite as he’d expected.

Also, another inspiration for Han Solo’s name (both first and last) was probably Hansel from the Hansel and Gretel fairy tale. In this case, the surname “Solo” suggests that, unlike his gingerbread-gorging namesake, Han the space-pirate doesn’t have a sister.

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. (I also remember Rinzler in The Making of Star Wars book mentioning that Lucas read Asimov as inspiration for SW). Of course that doesn’t mean that Lucas wasn’t aware of the Buck Rogers story though.
I’m not too sure about the Hansel and Gretel one though, seems like an odd fit, especially since the Asimov one fits so well.

ATMachine said:

ZkinandBonez said:

SilverWook said:

George also used Buck Rogers footage in THX 1138, so you might be on to something. 😃

Right, I forgot about that.

I’d be kind if funny if Han was based on a Buck Rogers book considering how in the first draft they meet him in a spaceport called Gordon.

Bear in mind that the “Han Solo” of the 1974 rough draft was really more akin to Chewbacca: a tall, monstrous alien who nonetheless is a faithful friend and ally of the human heroes. Albeit instead of being a tall furry Bigfoot-like creature, alien-Han was a green and scaly swamp monster, in the vein of the Creature from the Black Lagoon.

I know, he was according to Rinzler “illustrated” (there was an image attached to the script) with a picture from a comic book of a “swamp creature”. The Dark Horse Comics adaptation of the rough draft made him look practically identical the the Swamp Thing, which debuted in 1972, and I’m sure they might have had access to the Lucasfilm Archives as well.

As a side-note;
Since you know a lot about this subject matterr, what books would you recommend to get a better understanding of Lucas’ inspiration for SW. I intend to have a look at some of the old Flash Gordon serials, if I can get a hold of them, but I’m not quite sure what books he read as inspiration.
(I see on wikipeedia that only a few of the Foundation books were written prior to SW, and that the same goes for the first two Dune novels. Would that be a good place to start?)

Post
#912694
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

(This wasn’t really worth it’s own thread so I figured this would be the best place to mention it.)

I was reading up on Buck Rogers on wikipeedia I noticed that the second story published in the 1920’s was called “The Airlord of Han.” So could this be the inspiration for Han Solo’s name? Lucas was a fan of Buck Rogers and even used pictures of the character in his first draft to illustrate what he wanted Annikin Stariller to look like. Han being a pilot, and a tad nobler in the first drafts, may also have been inspired by “airlords.”

Maybe this has been discussed before, but this is the first time I have heard any suggestion to where “Han” comes from.

Post
#912140
Topic
Pre-MaQuarrie &quot;illustrations&quot; for Star Wars (NASA, Flash Gordon, Frazetta, etc.)
Time

Tobar said:

ZkinandBonez said:

(EDIT: are these actual SW concept art by Cantwell?)

Yes.

Right.
Well that at least gives me some insight to the visuals of the first draft, but these NASA spaceships with the weird wings still remain a mystery.

EDIT:
I actually found one of the images described in the book on the webpage with the interviews that you linked to. Although you sent me the link several hours ago, I decided to look at it again and scroll down past the videos to see if there was something else interesting written, and after having scrolled past a whole lot of photos, there it was, Lucas’ red Frazetta-like cover for first draft.
It’s quite rare apparently, even the guy who interview Cantwell seemed surprised, and wrote that he couldn’t even find it elsewhere on the internet via a Google Image Search. And who actually made it is still a mystery.
(I’ve added the cover art to the first post btw)

Post
#912025
Topic
Pre-MaQuarrie &quot;illustrations&quot; for Star Wars (NASA, Flash Gordon, Frazetta, etc.)
Time

Tobar said:

Let us not forget the great unsung hero, Colin Cantwell. He was there at the beginning and helped inspire the look and feel of Star Wars. He pioneered the technique of kitbashing and was hired by George to design prototypes of the ships while he was still working on the first drafts.

The likely reason Rinzler didn’t include these in the book is that they’re not in the Lucasfilm archive. Cantwell still owns all of his original work for the film.

Here’s a great video interview series with Colin Cantwell about his work and history with the industry.

The Star Wars portion starts in Part 3. Lots of amazing stuff that you’ll find nowhere else, including artwork.

Yeah, I can definetely see how these might have been some of the pictures Rinzler was talking about
http://kitbashed.com/blog/colin-cantwells-concept-art

(EDIT: are these actual SW concept art by Cantwell?)


The “sci-fi hero standing next to a futuristic vehicle” could be a reference to a Buck Roger’s photo. In of one the videos you linked to Cantwell mentions how this vehicle (picture below) was based on a Buck Roger’s image Lucas showed him.

Kitbashed.com also suggests that this Flash Gordon comic from 1971 (image below) was an inspiration for Luke’s speeder. Although it doesn’t match the description of the attached images that Rinzler mentions, this could definitely have been an inspiration at some later point in the production.