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ZkinandBonez

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5-May-2015
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18-Mar-2024
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Post
#912006
Topic
Pre-MaQuarrie "illustrations" for Star Wars (NASA, Flash Gordon, Frazetta, etc.)
Time

I realize that this is a somewhat bizarre thing to ask about, but it is technically SW related and I don’t really know of anywhere else to ask about this sort of thing.

So I just started reading J. W. Rinzler’s ‘The Making of Star Wars’, mostly with the intent of learning as much as I could about the early script drafts (I’ve been strangely obsessed with these lately) and I came across something interesting.
When describing Lucas’ creative process in writing the first two of drafts Rinzler mentions several pictures being attached to the scripts. Keep in mind that this is before Lucas had hired McQuarrie or any of the other artists to illustrate his ideas, so these images were not made for Star Wars.
The thing that’s bothering me is that Rinzler has decided to not show any of these photos in the book, and instead merely opted to describe them. (I guess this might be due to some copyright issues, but the book has several Flash Gordon pictures, old movie posters, etc.)

Here’s his descriptions of the photos;

-In reference to the story treatment, in May 1973
“To give United Artists an idea of what kind of visuals he had in mind, Lucas had attached ten images to the treatment:
four NASA photos (astronauts in space, sattelites, spaceships with peculiarly shaped wings); a photo of US army amphibious tanks; and five fantasy illustrations, consisting of a skull-faced , muscular man holding a dead woman, pietà-like; a sci-fantasy hero, crouching and holding a blaster; a swarm of warriors fighting a giant furry creature; another sci-fi hero standing next to a futuristic vehicle; and a goggle-faced alien staring out at the viewer.”

-In reference to the rough draft, May 1974
“Lucas’s bound copy of this draft has a mock-up cover with Flash Gordon-like characters blasting each other;
one is on a jet hover-pad, while the other protects a girl.
Interspersed in the pages are occasional illustrations pulled from comic books:
Han Solo resembles a swamp creature, while 'Captain Starkiller* (Annikin) is clearly a Buck Rogers type.”
(This “swamp creature” is probably a reference to The Swamp Thing comic series which was first published in 1972. It’s also worth noting that the Dark Horse comics adaptation of the rough draft has an alien Han Solo that looks almost identical to the Swamp Thing.)

-In reference to the second draft, January 28 1975
“A copy in the Lucasfilm Archives features a red cover with a Frank Frazetta-like illustration of a man holding a sword with an adoring, voluptuous woman wrapped around his leg.”
(I’m guessing this was the inspiration for the Jung/Hildebrant posters.)
EDIT: I actually found this one (image posted below).

Does anyone know if any of these pictures have ever been published in relation to Star Wars?
Maybe there’s some other BTS books that choose to include these pictures.

(I highly doubt that it would be possible to find these pictures simply based on these descriptions.)

EDIT:
Second draft (January 28, 1975) cover.

Post
#910622
Topic
Star Wars: The Costume Thread
Time

ATMachine said:

Oh! I almost forgot to answer where I got the pictures of John Mollo’s costume designs for Ben Kenobi from.

Mollo’s drawings of Ben of him in Tatooine farmer garb are from The Making of SW and the 1979 The Art of Star Wars (which also provided the McQuarrie drawings of Ben in Jedi robes). I think I found the Mollo picture of Ben’s Jedi gear while searching on the Internet, though.

Right, thanks. There’s a lot of books I’m going to have to get a hold of now, googling it will only yield so many results (and rarely in high res.).

EDIT: I just googled The Art of Star Wars and it seems pretty expensive. Is there any difference between the 1979 first edition and the later versions with “A New Hope” added to the title?

Post
#910455
Topic
What is so wrong about gay romance being in Star Wars?
Time

Jonno said:

No reason at all why modern episodes shouldn’t adopt a more enlightened interpretation, unless the bigot dollar is one that Disney are especially anxious about.

I think that’s pretty much the only reason why it most likely won’t happen.

There’s a lot of money that they could potentially loose from trying something like this, heck it could even get the film banned in some countries. Of course Disney would be filthy rich either way, but these are business people after all.

Post
#910437
Topic
Star Wars: The Costume Thread
Time

ATMachine said:

Here’s a picture of John Mollo’s costume sketch for Obi-Wan’s Tatooine farmer outfit:

Have some alt text.

As you can see, it’s basically a variant on Luke’s outfit, along with a utility vest with lots of pockets.

Contrast this with Mollo’s design for Ben Kenobi’s Jedi robes. At this stage, the robes were to be fairly elaborate, with a silver tassel hanging from the end of the hood on his cloak – befitting the idea that Ben had kept his “Jedi uniform” stored away for a long time.

And even more alt text.

Presumably the extra costume for Obi-wan was a casualty of the budget cuts that impacted the production around the time the fourth draft was written at the start of 1976. And if that hadn’t happened, SW Internet forums wouldn’t have so many debates about why Ben is supposedly wearing “Tatooine farmer robes.”

That is pretty cool, and makes a lot of sense, but I have to say; Ben’s first appearance might not have been quite so “mysterious” if he’d just been dressed as Luke. I know he’s technically still just wearing some simple robes, but the hood definitely adds to the moment (e.g. the musical cue as Ben removes his hood and looks at Artoo).
It’s at least nice to see how Lucas could make something good out of compromises back in his pre-fame/CG days.

Also, where did you get these pictures?


Also, here’s another early Leia costume design with a Flash Gordon-esque feel to it;


Any idea what draft of the script this is from?
(As well as where I might find it in a higher resolution.)

Post
#910112
Topic
What is so wrong about gay romance being in Star Wars?
Time

SilverWook said:

There are EU characters that might be interpreted as being gay. Senator Greyshade and Master Comm in the old Marvel comics might be considered a couple.

Wouldn’t that technically be an inter-species relationship?
Also Greyshade clearly had a thing for Leia, so at least he’s bisexual, or whatever term you’d use for a man who likes women and robots who seemingly identify as male. I think I’m over-thinking this.


Anyway, I’m perfectly fine with Finn and Poe being gay, I just don’t see it happening. It’s not a chance I see Disney taking with something as profitable as Star Wars.

Post
#910105
Topic
Star Wars: The Costume Thread
Time

Like I mentioned earlier the radio drama shows us what happened after the door shuts behind them. It may not involve any old fashioned physical torture, but like Han in ESB it does cause her great pain. The interrogation also has a brainwashing quality to it.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/content_link/54GWwsFAL1eqWpKtp6UaSM4T9wgD6UbAXhjQekXlPmbbcW2mDgnw7Pb4nqEJfayn/file

Post
#910075
Topic
Star Wars: The Costume Thread
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

I remember the first time I watched SW as kid. Even then, I thought Leia’s interrogation was too mild; a floating black orb comes in and that’s it? She doesn’t get so much as a hair knocked out of place?

I don’t know if I would have wanted to see Leia half-naked with bruises all over her face, but some effort should have went into the final film to show that Leia’s Imperial captivity wasn’t just Tarkin and Vader throwing big evil villain speeches at her.

Well, the radio drama from 1981 (which did count as Lucas-canon) did have this; https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/content_link/54GWwsFAL1eqWpKtp6UaSM4T9wgD6UbAXhjQekXlPmbbcW2mDgnw7Pb4nqEJfayn/file

Post
#909931
Topic
Star Wars: The Costume Thread
Time

In which version of the script was all of this mentioned?
A bloodied, bruised and bare-breasted Leia is quite a departure from the child-friendly SW we now know. But from what I’ve gathered, the film was meant to be a lot more adult even up to the point when they were getting ready to start filming. Having glanced through the first 10 pages of Mayhew’s 1976 script I’ve noticed a slightly more “brutal” description of the fighting on-board the Tantive IV.

Also is this thread meant to be about SW costumes in general, or early ideas for costumes?

Anyway, here’s an early design of Leia I think looks quite cool;

It has a very Flash Gordon-esque feel to it.

Post
#909809
Topic
Just How Many ANH Drafts Are There? (Help needed in finding and organizing all the different versions.)
Time

ATMachine said:

Mayhew’s pics are actually of the shooting script. Luke’s surname was changed during the shooting process (happily before any footage had been filmed with the old name). The opening crawl was likewise rewritten in post.

So is that why Mayhew’s script says “saga 1” instead of “episode 1”?
According to Wookieepedia the third draft had “saga” and the fourth draft had “episode”, so what version is the shooting script based on?

Tack said:

The complete versions are easy to follow for the most part, bar the titles. We do have for the most part all of the major ones (including the IMO bizarre first draft). In regards to the older versions, many of them are simply half-baked story ideas or world-building things.

There was an actual Journal of the Whills at one point; a three page first-person account of a very different story (which I think could have made for a very interesting take on the prequels). From there, it was mostly scattered notes until the treatment (which is actually on that site linked earlier, and interesting because Lucas actually states this takes place in the thirty-third century, instead of long long ago).

You can find a bunch about Journal of the Whills from this thread;

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Journal-of-the-Whills-A-Reconstruction-of-the-1973-Plot/id/46553

Do you have some idea of have many of his “half-baked” older version I could potentially find online?
His early notes are actually what fascinates me the most here (the more separate from the finished product the better).

Post
#909806
Topic
Just How Many ANH Drafts Are There? (Help needed in finding and organizing all the different versions.)
Time

TV’s Frink said:

I’m curious why you are doing this? Genuine question.

Simply because as a SW fan and wannabe filmmaker I find the development process of ANH very interesting. I think it’s really fascinating to read early versions of something that has since become such a huge piece of pop-culture.
However googling it kind of confused me because I couldn’t match up the info with Mayhew’s recently posted script so I figured I’d ask for help here. As for the whole “organizing” thing, I like collecting these kinds of things, and right now I need something to do with my spare time. And I might end up making something out of all of this at some point, but right now I just want to read all the different versions for fun/educational purposes.

Post
#909619
Topic
Just How Many ANH Drafts Are There? (Help needed in finding and organizing all the different versions.)
Time

Now I’m aware that this is probably very old news to many of you, but I’m having some difficulties in organizing all the different drafts of ANH. I got intrigued by this now that Peter Mayhew started tweeting photos of his script from 1976. From what I’ve gathered, this version, which is called “The Adventures of Luke Starkiller as taken from the ‘Journal of the Whills’ (saga 1) Star Wars” is the third draft. However according to Wookieepedia the “saga 1” was from the second draft, and the third one was called “episode 1.” I’ve read the Dark Horse Comics adaptation of the “original draft”, but from what I’ve read on the forums there are older, unfinished versions.

So could someone help me clear up just how many versions of the script there has been, including the unfinished versions?
(I’d also appreciate any links to complete scripts as I’d love to read these old versions.)

EDIT: Any links to high-res storyboards would be greatly appreciated as well. I’d especially like to have these in better resolution; https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20535561/SW ANH storyboards.jpg

Post
#909363
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Platitude said:

adywan said:

The official announcement that Episode 7 has started filming, including a teaser video and cast list.

http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-viii-now-filming?cmp=smc|368071958&linkId=21276840

And NO Harrison Ford. I don’t know why people still thought he was coming back just because Kennedy said that all the cast would be back when TFA came out. Of course she wasn’t going to say “they’re all coming back except for Harrison”. That would have given the game away about his death.

Two other interesting omissions in the announcement are Peter Mayhew and John Williams

“PETER MAYHEW CONFIRMED FOR STAR WARS: EPISODE VIII.”
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2016/02/peter-mayhew-confirmed-for-star-wars-episode-viii-the-actor-teases-big-announcement-coming-soon.html
(Also Mayhew is apparently tweeting pictures of his original ANH script from 1976.)

Post
#908891
Topic
Star Wars Books. Good Recommendations?
Time

I can’t really recommend any of the new Disney-canon books since I’ve haven’t read any of them, but The Han Solo Adventures are some pretty fun and neutral SW books that should fit into the new canon without any problems. They are essentially about Han Solo’s “adventures” with Chewbacca prior to the events of the movies.
There’s also The Lando Calrissian Adventures books in the same style, I haven’t actually ready any of them, but they seem to be in the same over-all style, pre-movie Lando stories; depicting his adventures as captain of the Millennium Falcon before he lost it to Han.

Shadows of the Empire (which tells the story of what happened to Luke and the rest of the ‘gang’ between The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi) is also a book that shouldn’t contradict the new movies in any way. However, I’m not too sure if I’d recommend that to someone as young as 8. There’s nothing shocking in it, but the story might be a bit too complex, and one of the villains can definitely be a bit of a creep some times (I haven’t read it in a while so I can’t remember how specific the book gets. It’s probably not much though being a SW book). However, I’d definitely recommend that it to anyone that’s roughly 11-12 or older.

Post
#908393
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

BobaJett said:

ZkinandBonez said:

I actually preferred the look of the OT as a kid, but then again I had a mother who showed me a lot of old films so there was never a contemporary “norm” for me, just a bunch of movies that looked different.

Exactly my point!! I know all of us would be pleasantly surprised and happy, but I wonder if the very thing we hope for would be received well by the casual fan.

I think it will go both ways. Retro is kind of trendy right now, and SW has a lot of nostalgia and retro-ness to take advantage of. However I feel like the upcoming Rogue One will look very modern, and although that probably won’t sit to right with us, I think most people will really like it. I actually don’t think most people really notice these kinds of things, at least not consciously. I’ve always been very conscious of it, but like I said I watched a lot of old films growing up. Most people tend to latch on to whatever’s new and trendy, and luckily for us Star-Wars-retro is trendy right now. But I think people would have had bad reactions if they made the new films were genuinely old-looking, and most people wouldn’t bat an eye if they fully modernized them. Most people didn’t with the PT and they probably won’t with the anthology films either.
This is why I always tell people to show old films to their kids from the beginning.

Post
#908311
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

adywan said:

the Luke/ rey shots seem to have been filmed with digital cameras, so they are more likely nothing more than behind the scenes footage shot while shooting episode 7

Really? I’d say they have quite a filmic look to them (unlike the shots of Johnson). They could be outtakes from TFA, or ep. VIII might start exactly where TFA left off. The compositions also seem pretty weird for BTS footage. At least the one with Rey looks very cinematic.

Post
#908299
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

I really like this shot, he looks so happy to be there.

That camera also makes me really happy. It’s hardly news by now that ep. VIII will be shot on film, but seeing that camera still makes me happy (and kinda jealous).

Also, these are different shots from the ones we saw in TFA right?
I can’t remember the specifics. Did they go back to Skelling Island, or was Johnson there with Abrams to shoot some scenes for his own movie?