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ZkinandBonez

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Post
#882740
Topic
Why is the Unknown Region so close to the Deep Core? (Continued discussion)
Time

I think everyone is taking my Viking analogy far to serious. My point was simply that if you already know what’s in one direction, why waste time and money on the unknown in the other direction. Going beyond my earth-analogy, space is considerably larger, so the stakes are much more higher than they have ever been to any of us in real life, so again, why bother to go into the great unknown, when the other half of the galaxy is a large web of trade-routes and filled with allies.
Exploring the Unknown Regions would simply be a pointless and unnecessarily risky endeavor when you got all you need elsewhere. Even looking at the map you can sort-of see how the expansion took place from it’s starting point at the core. It builds outwards to meet up with smaller pockets of inhabited planets, and the further out you get to less explored areas there are in between the clusters.

Also, if as joefavs suggested, the Rakatans aren’t exactly friendly, then the Republics ability to expand in that direction is greatly hampered. Like I mentioned earlier, I really doubt that the Republic just flew off into empty space and happened to bump into Kashyyyk, or Nar Shadda, they probably learned of them from someone. It probably started with the nearest planets; Anaxes, Brentaal, Tython, etc. and from whoever lived there they might have learned of other nearby planet. And after thousands of years of this kind of hopping from planet to another based on each planets knowledge of their nearby neighbours, the eventually reached Hutt Space on the far “eastern” side of the galaxy, and so forth.
However, if there never was any planets on the “western” side to start this kind of chain reaction, then that part of the galaxy would remain unexplored. And from what I’ve gathered from the Rakatans wookieepedia article, they’re not to friendly, so they definitively wouldn’t be of any help.
Also keep in mind that this chain reaction of exploring the “eastern” half of the galaxy took over 25 000 years, which kind of makes sense if you consider the scales we’re dealing with here.

However, I will admit that my assumption about them not knowing what to look for is somewhat wrong. But even if they can find the coordinates of several planets in the Unknown Regions I still question the wisdom of just going there for no other reason than exploration. And of course someone clearly have tried their luck and explored, hence there a planets on the map like; Ilum, Csilla, Rakata Prime, Lwhekk, etc. But as evidenced by Rakata Prime, the Republic may have simply deemed it to dangerous to expand in that direction.

Post
#882712
Topic
Why is the Unknown Region so close to the Deep Core? (Continued discussion)
Time

Reposted from the TFA thread.

EDIT:
POTENTIAL SPOILERS since this whole thing started with the galaxy map for the new Disney canon.

ZkinandBonez said:

imperialscum said:

ZkinandBonez said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

ZkinandBonez said:

joefavs said:

And here’s something really interesting. Empire Magazine gives us our first canonical map of the galaxy:
Alt text

Tobar said:

UGH, they kept the Unknown Regions as a giant blot that reaches right next to the Galactic Core. So DUMB.

I’ve always maintained that the Unknown Regions should have been one of the spiral arms of the galaxy. At least that would have made some sense.

Hasn’t it always been like that in SW canon though?

It’s still stupid.

It takes Yoda – what? – a couple hours to take a trip from Coruscant to Moraband, but no one from Coruscant’s ever sent explorers into the Unknown Regions, which is significantly closer to Coruscant than Moraband is?

Personally, I feel that when the powers-that-be decided to reintroduce the Unknown Regions, either the Unknown and Known Regions of the galaxy should have swapped places (making the Republic/Empire/etc. a smaller corner of a larger, unexplored galaxy) or the Unknown Regions should have been made to completely surround the Known Regions, like a ring.

It is a bit odd, but then again we had Vikings in real life travelling as far as to the Midlle East (possibly even China), yet hardly anyone ever thought about travelling across the Atlantic ocean. Once you’ve established trade-routes in one direction, you usually have very few reasons to travel in the other direction. It’s just a waste of time and money.

Also is there any canon-for how long these journeys really take? For all we know a trip from Coruscant to Moraband might take days, if not weeks. And even if it doesn’t take that long, it does help to have light-speed when you know exactly what planet you’re aiming for. Space is mostly just emptiness, and exploring the Unknown Regions regardless of how close the borders are would still just be a very slow sub-light-speed scan of mostly empty space. When the other half of the galaxy is explored, why waste your time and money on the other?

Having said that, however, I would have preferred it to be a little bit further away from the core. But it also does kind of make sense, so I’m not going to waste any effort getting annoyed at it.
I would however be very interested to hear why they specifically decided to design the SW-galaxy like that. I still find it an oddly specific thing to add to the canon.

The thing is that unknown regions as they were/are on the map were probably intended to be a state from the old republic era (KOTOR), i.e. 4000 years before OT. Your example about Vikings would make sense for that period. But to assume they remained unexplored for 4000 years is just stupid.

I’m not saying it’s brilliant, I’m just saying that the galaxy is pretty friggin’ big and exploring a big chunk of mostly empty space might not be a big priority once you’ve already mapped most of the other half of the galaxy. I’m guessing that the mapping of the “eastern” part of the galaxy was achieved through the races that the people from the core-world met along the way. F.ex. you find one planet that’s inhabited, and you learn about 10 more planets from them. Exploring those 10 you discover 5 more, and from one of their civilizations you discover 10 more, etc, etc. And before you know it you established trade routes, political ties, and explored a large part of the galaxy. The “western” half on the other hand may never have had that first meeting which eventually lead to what is an almost exponential growth in knowledge/expansion. Without that first meeting you are essentially just faced with what is 99,99% empty space and no real starting point for exploration. So even with lightspeed technology it’s far from impossible to spend the next 4000 years not knowing what lies in the “western”-half of the galaxy even if it is right next to you.

(And as for the whole Viking-analogy goes. During a roughly 3-4000 year period of seafaring capabilities there was only one known expedition over the Atlantic ocean. They eventually figured it wasn’t worth their time since everything they needed as far as trade went was east of them anyway, so they simply decided to leave America alone, and for another 1000-ish years it was assumed to have just been some small-ish, uninteresting island somewhere west of Greenland.
Also space is a hell-of-a-lot larger than any areas we’ve ever had to explore on our own planet. At least we can make a full journey around the planet if we get lost. If you explore space however, you could be travelling through nothingness for an eternity.
)

ZkinandBonez said:

imperialscum said:

Sorry but your analogy is not very convincing. It is completely out of scale. Vikings might have ventured briefly to America but that doesn’t mean they explored/settled any significant portion of it, let alone half of the world (which is required to meet our Star Wars example). They effectively explored and used a very small portion of the world. On the other hand, our Star Wars example dictates that half of the galaxy was completely explored (and used) while the other half was unknown. If you have the capability to discover/colonise half of the world then the other half will naturally follow very soon, as in the case of 16th-17th century European discoveries and colonisation.

“our Star Wars example dictates that half of the galaxy was completely explored”
When was that established? I’m pretty sure there are still unexplored planets, and solar systems even within the “explored” half of the galaxy. There’s even some pretty large empty spots on the map even within the “eastern” half.

Also my Viking-analogy wasn’t meant to perfectly fit with the SW universe-lore, I was just pointing out that even on our small planet something as gigantic as the American continent wen’t undiscovered for a very, very long time. And since space exploration, even with lightspeed, would still be an extremely time-consuming and arduous task, taking thousands of years just to discover a fraction of it. And in SW lore the Republic is about 25 000 years old, meaning that all that is on the map (the old one) has been mapped out in roughly that same period of time. And I doubt that they simply flew around in empty space and happened to come across all the planets that are on the map. Keep in mind that lightspeed only works if you know exactly where you are going. This means that in order to find a planet you need to travel in sub-light speed, and of course that can take an infinite amount of time unless you’re really lucky. Also like I suggested in my previous post, they probably discovered most planets through other civilizations over the course of those 25 000 years. Each civilization having explored their own sector at sub-light speed, sharing their star-maps with others that they come across, and quickly you’ll have a decent amount of planets to travel to. However, even then you’ll need thousands of years to map an area as large as the one on the map above.
The main reason it never takes any of the SW characters any time to travel across the galaxy is because they already know the coordinates. Warping into the unknown region would be dangerous and pointless as there’s a tiny fraction of a chance that they would hit anything at all. And for that sake they could actually literally “hit” something. Without anyone to guide their way over the course of thousands of years it’s essentially just pointless, mostly-empty space until someone makes contact or some crazy, lucky explorer comes across something (and on the maps there’s at least 5 or so planets that they seem to have found that way).

Post
#882697
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

imperialscum said:

ZkinandBonez said:

I’m not saying it’s brilliant, I’m just saying that the galaxy is pretty friggin’ big and exploring a big chunk of mostly empty space might not be a big priority once you’ve already mapped most of the other half of the galaxy. I’m guessing that the mapping of the “eastern” part of the galaxy was achieved through the races that the people from the core-world met along the way. F.ex. you find one planet that’s inhabited, and you learn about 10 more planets from them. Exploring those 10 you discover 5 more, and from one of their civilizations you discover 10 more, etc, etc. And before you know it you established trade routes, political ties, and explored a large part of the galaxy. The “western” half on the other hand may never have had that first meeting which eventually lead to what is an almost exponential growth in knowledge/expansion. Without that first meeting you are essentially just faced with what is 99,99% empty space and no real starting point for exploration. So even with lightspeed technology it’s far from impossible to spend the next 4000 years not knowing what lies in the “western”-half of the galaxy even if it is right next to you.

(And as for the whole Viking-analogy goes. During a roughly 3-4000 year period of seafaring capabilities there was only one known expedition over the Atlantic ocean. They eventually figured it wasn’t worth their time since everything they needed as far as trade went was east of them anyway, so they simply decided to leave America alone, and for another 1000-ish years it was assumed to have just been some small-ish, uninteresting island somewhere west of Greenland.
Also space is a hell-of-a-lot larger than any areas we’ve ever had to explore on our own planet. At least we can make a full journey around the planet if we get lost. If you explore space however, you could be travelling through nothingness for an eternity.
)

Sorry but your analogy is not very convincing. It is completely out of scale. Vikings might have ventured briefly to America but that doesn’t mean they explored/settled any significant portion of it, let alone half of the world (which is required to meet our Star Wars example). They effectively explored and used a very small portion of the world. On the other hand, our Star Wars example dictates that half of the galaxy was completely explored (and used) while the other half was unknown. If you have the capability to discover/colonise half of the world then the other half will naturally follow very soon, as in the case of 16th-17th century European discoveries and colonisation.

“our Star Wars example dictates that half of the galaxy was completely explored”
When was that established? I’m pretty sure there are still unexplored planets, and solar systems even within the “explored” half of the galaxy. There’s even some pretty large empty spots on the map even within the “eastern” half.

Also my Viking-analogy wasn’t meant to perfectly fit with the SW universe-lore, I was just pointing out that even on our small planet something as gigantic as the American continent wen’t undiscovered for a very, very long time. And since space exploration, even with lightspeed, would still be an extremely time-consuming and arduous task, taking thousands of years just to discover a fraction of it. And in SW lore the Republic is about 25 000 years old, meaning that all that is on the map (the old one) has been mapped out in roughly that same period of time. And I doubt that they simply flew around in empty space and happened to come across all the planets that are on the map. Keep in mind that lightspeed only works if you know exactly where you are going. This means that in order to find a planet you need to travel in sub-light speed, and of course that can take an infinite amount of time unless you’re really lucky. Also like I suggested in my previous post, they probably discovered most planets through other civilizations over the course of those 25 000 years. Each civilization having explored their own sector at sub-light speed, sharing their star-maps with others that they come across, and quickly you’ll have a decent amount of planets to travel to. However, even then you’ll need thousands of years to map an area as large as the one on the map above.
The main reason it never takes any of the SW characters any time to travel across the galaxy is because they already know the coordinates. Warping into the unknown region would be dangerous and pointless as there’s a tiny fraction of a chance that they would hit anything at all. And for that sake they could actually literally “hit” something. Without anyone to guide their way over the course of thousands of years it’s essentially just pointless, mostly-empty space until someone makes contact or some crazy, lucky explorer comes across something (and on the maps there’s at least 5 or so planets that they seem to have found that way).

Anyway, we’re getting off-topic. Maybe we should add this conversation to a new thread and continue the discussion there?

**EDIT: I reposted the conversation on this new thread; http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Why-is-the-Unknown-Region-so-close-to-the-Deep-Core-Continued-discussion/id/46322 **

Post
#882687
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

Kind of interesting new image of Billie Lourd’s character as well as a droid called PZ-4CO.
The droid was reffered to as “a constant fixture in Resistance base control rooms, offering tactical data and communications support during important operations.”
So it seems that Lourd is just playing some random Resistance communication officer, or something similar.

http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/11/a-better-look-at-billie-lourds-characters-from-the-force-awakens.html

Post
#882539
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

New Disney featurette on Rey with some new clips from the movie and behind the scenes;
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/11/new-star-wars-the-force-awakens-featurette-reys-adventure.html

Also, someone pointed out that we may have gotten our first glimpse of Simon Pegg’s character;

(The background does however not seem to match to me, in the D23 B-roll we saw Pegg being on location in the desert and the shot below looks like it’s in Kanata’s castle with all the other alien pirates. It’s hard to tell though, we could get a cantina-type scene on Jakku as well.)

Post
#882484
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

ZkinandBonez said:

joefavs said:

And here’s something really interesting. Empire Magazine gives us our first canonical map of the galaxy:
Alt text

Tobar said:

UGH, they kept the Unknown Regions as a giant blot that reaches right next to the Galactic Core. So DUMB.

I’ve always maintained that the Unknown Regions should have been one of the spiral arms of the galaxy. At least that would have made some sense.

Hasn’t it always been like that in SW canon though?

It’s still stupid.

It takes Yoda – what? – a couple hours to take a trip from Coruscant to Moraband, but no one from Coruscant’s ever sent explorers into the Unknown Regions, which is significantly closer to Coruscant than Moraband is?

Personally, I feel that when the powers-that-be decided to reintroduce the Unknown Regions, either the Unknown and Known Regions of the galaxy should have swapped places (making the Republic/Empire/etc. a smaller corner of a larger, unexplored galaxy) or the Unknown Regions should have been made to completely surround the Known Regions, like a ring.

It is a bit odd, but then again we had Vikings in real life travelling as far as to the Midlle East (possibly even China), yet hardly anyone ever thought about travelling across the Atlantic ocean. Once you’ve established trade-routes in one direction, you usually have very few reasons to travel in the other direction. It’s just a waste of time and money.

Also is there any canon-for how long these journeys really take? For all we know a trip from Coruscant to Moraband might take days, if not weeks. And even if it doesn’t take that long, it does help to have light-speed when you know exactly what planet you’re aiming for. Space is mostly just emptiness, and exploring the Unknown Regions regardless of how close the borders are would still just be a very slow sub-light-speed scan of mostly empty space. When the other half of the galaxy is explored, why waste your time and money on the other?

Having said that, however, I would have preferred it to be a little bit further away from the core. But it also does kind of make sense, so I’m not going to waste any effort getting annoyed at it.
I would however be very interested to hear why they specifically decided to design the SW-galaxy like that. I still find it an oddly specific thing to add to the canon.

Post
#882454
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

Kind of interesting;
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/11/empire-reveals-the-name-of-a-new-planet-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens.html

"The guys from StarWars-Union.de have a very interesting theory on Starkiller base and its location. They compared the new map with an old one and discovered that the planets Ord Mantell and Rakata Prime fit directly with the same planets from the new star map. And Starkiller base is located where previously another ice planet stood – Ilum!"

Also, Spielberg have apparently already seen TFA three times!
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/11/daisy-ridley-to-glamour-magazine-steven-spielberg-has-seen-the-force-awakens-3-times.html

Post
#882423
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

joefavs said:

And here’s something really interesting. Empire Magazine gives us our first canonical map of the galaxy:
Alt text

Tobar said:

UGH, they kept the Unknown Regions as a giant blot that reaches right next to the Galactic Core. So DUMB.

I’ve always maintained that the Unknown Regions should have been one of the spiral arms of the galaxy. At least that would have made some sense.

Hasn’t it always been like that in SW canon though?


Link:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20535561/SW Galaxy map.jpg

I googled it and I really can’t find a map where the unknown regions aren’t like that. It seems more like they’ve just removed a bunch of planets from the old map and added a few new ones.
I could be wrong though, it’s hard to back-track the canon on Wookieepedia.

Does anyone know what the first map of the SW galaxy looked like?
EDIT: It’s from 1999 and looked like this; http://i1.wp.com/www.tor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/star-wars-njo-map.jpg?fit=429%2C 9999&crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C321px

(PS. why is Bespin and Hoth right next to each other in both maps? Didn’t Han refer to it as being “far away” when they were hiding in the asteroid field in the Hoth system?)

Post
#882211
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

Looks like it.
(They kind of remind me of Vader’s helmet seen from behind.)

I was also somewhat surprised by the lax security. You would think Poe was a high priority prisoner considering the whole massacre that we’ve seen take place in the trailers in order to capture him during his meeting with Max von Sydov (forgot the character name). You’d think they’d give him more than a one-man-escort to his cell.

Post
#881810
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

The background characters in Maz Kanata’s castle is apparently already getting they’re own Disney canon backstories.
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/11/four-new-journey-to-the-force-awakens-promos-tease-alien-tales.html


This guy’s apparently called Captain Ithano according to the back of the book, and although they seem to go for a more OT kind of feel they’re not shying away from using the PT lore.

That woman we saw sitting on top of the large Thrandoshian looking guy is also going to get her own book and is called Bazine.
http://www.starwarspost.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/PerfectWeapon-Cover-673x1024.jpg

Constable Zuvio is already getting his own book;
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/JTTFA1.jpg
And these guys that we briefly saw in the B-roll footage from D23 is also getting a story (which looks really weird);
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/JTTFA4.jpg

It seems like the new Disney EU is going to give every single background character as much of a backstory as the old one did. Not that I really expected any less, but what I’m most curious about now is what they’ll do with the old background characters from the OT and PT. Will they eventually just re-write everything about Sy Snootles, Figrin D’an, etc, or will they just recycle the old stories.

Post
#881454
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

TK428 said:
What, if anything, do we know about the alter-ego that was mentioned for Adam Driver known as “Darklighter”. Is he playing both sides or were those all flash backs or maybe just early production ruses?

Kylo have been described as a Darklighter?
Man, wouldn’t that be a twist ending; Kylo Ren being Biggs’ son. Heck, so far he’s been speculated to be the son of practically the entire main cast of the OT, so why not move over to the supporting cast.

Post
#881327
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

Well I think we can safely assume that Palpatine was just plain “evil.” Vader was however corrupted by evil (the dark side, etc.) and Kylo seems to do evil in an attempt to do good.
Whereas the OT had a very Tolkien-eque approach towards evil, e.g. somewhat symbolic and straight forward, but still representing real-life fairly well but not to blatanly, TFA just seems to go straight for a more realistic depiction of fascism and ideology gone wrong.

I also found an recent interview with Domhnall Gleeson very interesting where he described Hux’s motivation as (and I’m paraphrasing) a need for control and as with all fascists a fear of “individuality.”
Although I appreciate the OT’s somewhat easy way to approach these subjects; such as imperialism, fascism, etc. I do kind of like how TFA seems to take it one step further, as well as making it more topical and relevant to modern day sensibilities. The OT’s somewhat straight-forward Nazi references have been updated somehat and the new focus has become more political and nuanced. We know seem to get more of a focus on what is going on inside the minds of the bad guys.
A lot of these things were implied in the OT, and somewhat explored in the EU, but TFA really seems to have run away with it.

Post
#881306
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

http://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/star-wars-exclusive-new-look-adam-driver-kylo-ren/

From Empire magazine:
Driver says that he sees Ren as more of a religious fanatic than a villain in the traditional sense. “When they think of their actions as morally justified,” Driver told us, “it makes them dangerous and unpredictable. There’s no level they won’t go to to accomplish what they’re after. I never thought of the character as an evil person."

It’s interesting that they’ve decided to ditch the whole “Sith” thing if the Knights of Ren are religious fanatics. I mean if they’re not followers of the Sith order from either EU or PT, then what exactly are they followers of? Just the Dark Side in general? It’s obviously Vader related, but Vader was Sith in the OT as well, although back then it was somewhat of an empty title. Even so, I’m curious to see how Kasdan and Abrams have written their way around this issue without pissing off the PT fans.

Post
#881242
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

Frank your Majesty said:

Or jedi are still not very common and/or famous, so lightsabers are just seen as some old antiquated weapons. Thus, the stormtrooper may not assume that the one wielding it has magical forces that makes him a superior combatant.

That would explain the confident stance.
Then again Kylo Ren, or the Knights of Ren in general, may have equipped them with those, whatever they are, weapons.
For all we know they might have killed several jedi before, or they may never have seen one before like you said.

Post
#881238
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

towne32 said:

It’s difficult to tell how anything from that trailer will actually look in context. Much more so than the previous trailers, it was cut with extremely quick shots and looks more like most modern movie trailers.

True, however that’s still a stormtrooper fighting a guy with a lightsaber.

But yes, it could end up being like a 5 second fight that the trailer is blowing out of proportion.
It’s still such a weird image to me though. I guess Abrams might be paying homage to some of the old MacQuarrie artwork of stormtroopers with lighsabers.

Post
#881234
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

I’m having a hard time deciding whether this is awesome, or cheesy as hell.

I don’t know, there’s just something really weird about a stormtrooper doing an action-pose and standing his ground against someone with a lightsaber. Had this been Phasma I wouldn’t have reacted at all, but this right here is one really brave, or perhaps just plain stupid, stormtrooper.

Post
#880567
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

I realize that this picture is kind of old news by now, but while reading one of the recent Jar Jar fan theories just for fun and time wasting, I did however come across this picture of what seems like an unfinished Gungan head in the background in the D23 B-roll footage from ILM.

Any thoughts on this?

(PS, I personally don’t see the Gungan that’s supposed to be on the right side of the photo, but like I said I didn’t make this picture, I just borrowed it from reddit.)

Post
#880249
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

joefavs said:

luckydube56 said:

JCM said:

http://screenrant.com/star-wars-7-force-awakens-simon-pegg-genuinely-magical/

Was listening to the Far, Far, Away Podcast this morning and Simon is taking a hit for his comments about the Prequels but the man speaks the truth.

I mean, I accept the Prequels on their own terms. They exist, I don’t want them written out of history. But they are not good movies. TPM was maybe one of the worst movie-going experiences I have ever had in my nearly 40 years. I wonder if this is maybe a generational thing. Gen X loved the OT because it spoke to them and Millennials (not all of them, but a lot) are more apt to like the PT.

What I cannot abide by is the fact that the OT that we are forced to live with in the public domain now is not recognizable to what I grew up with. If I can be forgiving to the PT and say “let 'em live” then we should at least have the OT available to us as they were originally released and not retroactively changed to fit the PT (or other whims). Even if it makes for an uneven viewing experience, that’s fine. They don’t all have to fit together and make sense. They can exist together in the same family without all having to agree with each other as long as they agree with each other among themselves, PT, OT and now ST, respectively.

Yeah. In my mind the PT exists as history with just the facts.

Obi Wan and Liam Neeson find Anakin as a child
Raise him up to be jedi
He is extremely adept in Force powers
He is generally a good guy
Falls in love with Padme
Then tragedy befalls him and he goes ape shit
Emperor gets hold of him and seals his fate.

All the details in between are irrelevant in my galaxy view. The nuances dont matter as that stuff exists in the movies and sucks.

I had the thought the other day that the prequels would be a lot more palatable as a comic. Same stuff happens, it’s still canon, but no one has to act, characters don’t need to blend into CGI sets, and you never hear anyone say “Dooku” out loud. It’s all just this weird Adventures of Young Obi-Wan Kenobi serial that technically counts but no one cares much to talk about. That’s sort of how I’ve chosen to remember it.

So, more or less the Tartakovsky’s Clone Wars cartoon?
(Same plots, characters, designs, but none Lucas’ writing, no CGI sets, no choppy acting, or whiny Anakin. They do say “Dooku” out loud though.)

(Personally though, when I hear Ben Kenobi mention the Clone Wars I prefer to imagine some kind of colourful blend of the Tartakovsky cartoon, the Silent Drifting comic from 1979 and Kenner’s ‘The Epic Continues’ pitch. Which may sound kind of weird, and it is, but until someone can give me a better alternative it works well enough for me.)