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ZkinandBonez

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5-May-2015
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29-Nov-2024
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Post
#1314840
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

theprequelsrule said:

Is Palpatine’s face creepy, like in ROTJ, or fake looking, as in ROTS?

He doesn’t really look like either. The “melted” look is gone. He’s really just a pale Ian McDiarmid with white eyes. It’s hard to explain, but he has a bit of an old Lugosi vibe to him. Kinda like something from a Universal Horror movie. I’d even describe it as a ghostly look.

Post
#1314827
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

ZkinandBonez said:

RogueLeader said:

ZkinandBonez said:

It just occurred to me that one of the funnier coincidences regarding the Rey Palpatine retcon is that now it finally makes sense that a scavenger on Jakku speaks with a British accent. Granted her parents, even if they were genuine “nobodies”, could come from the core worlds, though that seems a little weird for “filthy junk traders” that sold off their own child for drinking money. It doesn’t really matter, but at least the EU writers won’t have figure it out in the future.

Unkar Plutt had a British accent.

That’s true. So much for that idea.

I wonder why they had Boyega do an American accent when they ignore accent inconsistencies in other characters.

I think they went with an American accent for John since stormtroopers typically have American accents. I heard they played around with Rey having an American accent as well, but I think Daisy was more comfortable with her natural accent.

Right, but according to that logic they should have had Simon Pegg do an american accent too, which I’m sure he’s capable of doing. Then again it’s been a while since I saw TFA so maybe his accent isn’t quite as “posh” as the Imperials and other core worlds characters usually are.

Post
#1314824
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Cthulhunicron said:

They should have David Lynch direct the next Star Wars. Let’s get weird.

Well, he was offered to do ROTJ, but apparently SW wasn’t weird enough for him. I’m glad he didn’t though, as I don’t see Lynch following Lucas’, for lack of a better word, “orders” the same way Kershner and Marquand did. And I’m glad we got to see Lynch’s interpretation of Dune. For all it’s flaws, I do really like that movie.

Post
#1314822
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Let us not forget that Lucas’ early work was quite experimental as well. Heck, even ANH can be considered “experimental”. By the standards of its time it was a pretty weird and original movie (still is).

(Also ditto on the above comment, or at least regarding about half of them. I have no clue who the rest are.)

Post
#1314814
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

ZkinandBonez said:

It just occurred to me that one of the funnier coincidences regarding the Rey Palpatine retcon is that now it finally makes sense that a scavenger on Jakku speaks with a British accent. Granted her parents, even if they were genuine “nobodies”, could come from the core worlds, though that seems a little weird for “filthy junk traders” that sold off their own child for drinking money. It doesn’t really matter, but at least the EU writers won’t have figure it out in the future.

Unkar Plutt had a British accent.

That’s true. So much for that idea.

I wonder why they had Boyega do an American accent when they ignore accent inconsistencies in other characters.

Post
#1314736
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

It just occurred to me that one of the funnier coincidences regarding the Rey Palpatine retcon is that now it finally makes sense that a scavenger on Jakku speaks with a British accent. Granted her parents, even if they were genuine “nobodies”, could come from the core worlds, though that seems a little weird for “filthy junk traders” that sold off their own child for drinking money. It doesn’t really matter, but at least the EU writers won’t have figure it out in the future.

Post
#1314219
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

oojason said:

^ brilliant mate - though now I’m hungry again and have only just eaten 😃

Thanks.


And for an actual SW-related random thought;

YouTube recently decided to recommend a 1952 movie-serial called Radar Men from the Moon and the main character is wearing a helmet, has a jet-pack, and is named Commando Cody. I wonder if this might have been one of Lucas’ inspirations for Boba/Jango Fett as well as Commander Cody.

Post
#1313907
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

Not really sure what thread to put this in, but my annual SW contribution to Christmas was finished yesterday after much finicky and messy work. I’m not sure how edible those Vader ones actually are (the black food colouring smelt really weird and I used a lot of it), but I think they turned out alright.

Post
#1313905
Topic
What is your personal canon?
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

It’s been almost a year since I last considered my personal canon. In that time, I tried being a SW '77 purist, but that didn’t work out for me. I then tried smothering my vestigial love for all things Star Wars and any personal canon with it, but that didn’t work out, either. Since then, my love and hatred for Star Wars has reached equilibrium, and now I believe I’ve settled upon a definitive personal canon.

This isn’t a canon of compatible works all forming a single, cohesive universe. This is a canon of dissimilar, often incompatible stories which I happen to enjoy, pure and simple.

  • Tales of the Jedi
  • TCW: “Overlords”
  • TCW: “Altar of Mortis”
  • TCW: “Ghosts of Mortis”
  • Star Wars (theatrical version)
  • The Star Wars radio drama
  • The Empire Strikes Back (theatrical version)
  • The original Marvel SW comic (#1-80)
  • The Archie Goodwin/Al Williamson SW comic strip
  • The Alan Moore SW comics
  • Dark Forces: Soldier for the Empire
  • Dark Forces: Rebel Agent
  • Dark Forces: Jedi Knight
  • Mara Jade: By the Emperor’s Hand
  • Heir to the Force
  • Dark Force Rising
  • The Last Command
  • Dark Empire
  • I, Jedi
  • Ambush at Corellia
  • Assault at Selonia
  • Showdown at Centerpoint
  • Specter of the Past
  • Vision of the Future

“Heir to the Force”?

Post
#1312691
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DominicCobb said:

I’ll be honest, I’ve seen it twice already. Second showing, half the theater either groaned, laughed, or said “what?” when Rey was revealed to be a Palpatine.

A middle-aged woman sitting behind me literally gasped out loud during the same reveal when I watched it. Her two sons, both ten-ish, just sounded confused and muttered about it for a minute or so until they just went with.

Similarly someone laughed during the Holdo-maneuver first time I saw TLJ, yet someone yelled “whoah” the second time I saw it.

It’s always funny to see how differently people react in theatres. I have never seen anyone actually get up and leave though.

Post
#1312688
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

FreezingTNT2 said:

ZkinandBonez said:

DrDre said:

ZkinandBonez said:

DrDre said:

What is the difference between the ST and a hypothetical sequel to LOTR, where the ring of power in the original story was a fake, such that that another small hero, a Wobbit from Wobbiton, can go on a similar quest to destroy the ring, and Sauron for real this time?

Well, SW isn’t based on a book or a comic or anything like that, so technically there’s no reason why you can’t change things or add to it retroactively. Also the emperor wasn’t really given much importance until the PT expanded his motives and abilities, so considering all that’s been added to the franchise in the decades since ROTJ him coming back really isn’t that strange.

Also I don’t get the whole “it undermines X-plot-point” argument. TROS doesn’s change any of the character stuff that happened in ROTJ, and going with the Middle-Earth analogy; Sauron was killed twice and just because they had to do it again later it didn’t undermine what Isuldur, Elrond, etc. accomplished a few millennia prior to LOTR.

Lack of originality aside, I don’t see how the ST breaks any in-universe logic.

Ehm, I think TROS and its predecessors undermine pretty much the entirety of ROTJ, except for Vader’s redemption.

Well, that’s really the most important thing, which is why I don’t really mind the ST that much. Though I still wouldn’t say the that First Order, Starkiller Base, etc. “undermines” anything so much as its just lazy writing. It works, it’s just underwhelming and something else would have been much more interesting.

The First Order undermines the original trilogy because they’re the Empire reborn, meaning that the Rebels never actually defeated them in Return of the Jedi.

Emphasis on reborn. They’re technically a new group imitating the old. Also I don’t see how three decades of peace is undermined by essentially neo-Imperials starting a new war.

Would it not have undermined the OT if an entirely different threat showed up an did the same damage?

Post
#1312407
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DrDre said:

ZkinandBonez said:

DrDre said:

What is the difference between the ST and a hypothetical sequel to LOTR, where the ring of power in the original story was a fake, such that that another small hero, a Wobbit from Wobbiton, can go on a similar quest to destroy the ring, and Sauron for real this time?

Well, SW isn’t based on a book or a comic or anything like that, so technically there’s no reason why you can’t change things or add to it retroactively. Also the emperor wasn’t really given much importance until the PT expanded his motives and abilities, so considering all that’s been added to the franchise in the decades since ROTJ him coming back really isn’t that strange.

Also I don’t get the whole “it undermines X-plot-point” argument. TROS doesn’s change any of the character stuff that happened in ROTJ, and going with the Middle-Earth analogy; Sauron was killed twice and just because they had to do it again later it didn’t undermine what Isuldur, Elrond, etc. accomplished a few millennia prior to LOTR.

Lack of originality aside, I don’t see how the ST breaks any in-universe logic.

Ehm, I think TROS and its predecessors undermine pretty much the entirety of ROTJ, except for Vader’s redemption.

Well, that’s really the most important thing, which is why I don’t really mind the ST that much. Though I still wouldn’t say the that First Order, Starkiller Base, etc. “undermines” anything so much as its just lazy writing. It works, it’s just underwhelming and something else would have been much more interesting.

Post
#1312387
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

As messy as TROS is, I’m kind of glad that they went in this direction. My biggest complaint is simply that they didn’t do this from the beginning (e.g. episode 7). It’s been bugging me since 2015 that they’ve been calling it the “Skywalker saga”, yet there really weren’t any real connection to the previous six films other than that Ben/Kylo was related to the OT cast and that a few of them made appearances and cameos. The saga films, at least post PT, has been about Skywalkers in conflict with Palpatine i one way or another. Rey and Snoke simply wasn’t that interesting, nor consistent with the previous trilogies. Now I’m all for new stories separate from the Skywalker family, but as long as they’re part of the episodic films I think the focus should be Skywalker/Palpatine, and regardless of how messy and filled with retcons the ST is now, at least it’s consistent with the saga as far as overall lore in concerned.

Post
#1312385
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DrDre said:

What is the difference between the ST and a hypothetical sequel to LOTR, where the ring of power in the original story was a fake, such that that another small hero, a Wobbit from Wobbiton, can go on a similar quest to destroy the ring, and Sauron for real this time?

Well, SW isn’t based on a book or a comic or anything like that, so technically there’s no reason why you can’t change things or add to it retroactively. Also the emperor wasn’t really given much importance until the PT expanded his motives and abilities, so considering all that’s been added to the franchise in the decades since ROTJ him coming back really isn’t that strange.

Also I don’t get the whole “it undermines X-plot-point” argument. TROS doesn’s change any of the character stuff that happened in ROTJ, and going with the Middle-Earth analogy; Sauron was killed twice and just because they had to do it again later it didn’t undermine what Isuldur, Elrond, etc. accomplished a few millennia prior to LOTR.

Lack of originality aside, I don’t see how the ST breaks any in-universe logic.

Post
#1312320
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

For all we know Snoke was actually leftover clone bodies of Plagueis. And according to the movie, Plagueis is Palpatine. And all the Sith stretching back to Darth Bane. So really, the Rule of Two was a ploy that allowed Darth Bane to jump from body to body for a thousand years.

Did anyone else pick that up? Basically Sidious’ spirit was just possessing his own, mangled corpse. He wanted Rey to turn and kill him because that would allow him to possess Rey. It’s the same reason the Emperor was unafraid when he negged on Luke to kill him in ROTJ.

But when Rey refused, he used her and Ben’s Force bond to siphon their life force into himself and heal his own body.

Did I understand all of that correctly?

That’s a really interesting theory, though I can’t remember the film ever stating anything at all about Plagueis or any other Sith by name. I did get some Dark Empire vibes from the dialogue, and they did kind of imply that Palpatine is some kind of ancient being, so this could be canonized at some point. I do seem to recall though that the film implied that Palpatine was some kind of dark side convergence in the force, or even the embodiment of the dark side, implying that he too was born of it like Anakin was, but that’s a very vague implication that could go in any number of directions.

Post
#1312051
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

luckydube56 said:

voltwaffle said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Well, Ben Solo is technically also a Skywalker so it depends on how you see it.

I agree with that assumption but look what they did with him; he’s a buffoon. He’s a completely incompetent and nonthreatening villain. He continuously gets beaten by a random person with no training. He then proceeds to yell and sulk about everything. He’s like Prince Zuko; only less interesting in every conceivable way. Then, in true Sequel fashion, they kill him because they don’t know what to do with him. You don’t kill off your characters for no reason or just because you can, that’s film making 101; just ask Kevin Smith.

How does he get killed? I don’t care about spoilers. I’m just curious as I won’t be seeing this film or TLJ any time soon if ever.

He doesn’t really get killed so much as he transfers his life-force to Rey after she’s killed fighting Palpatine at the end. So it’s kind of similar to what Vader did in ROTJ, just way more complicated.

This film introduces a lot of new force abilities BTW.

Post
#1311997
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

voltwaffle said:

theprequelsrule said:

So wait, is Star Wars really the Saga of Palpatine? %^%&& Disney in their #@4%^!!!

One hundred percent. This isn’t the Skywalker saga, it’s the Palpatine saga. He’s the only character to be continuously present in all eras of this story and is also the only one that actually succeeds in some of his efforts.

Well, Ben Solo is technically also a Skywalker so it depends on how you see it. As messy as TROS was I’m at least glad that they acknowledged that the “Skywalker saga” has to actually focus somewhat on at least one Skywalker as opposed to just new characters. Although flawed in execution, now we can at least follow a continuous Skywalker-related through-line throughout the nine “saga” films.

Post
#1311785
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

So spoiler-wise there’s a few things that stood out to me, both positive and negative:

The biggest positive for me has to be Palpatine. Since he was always the big bad huy of both the OT and the PT it makes sense to me to bring him back. Like I said before it does constantly remind you of just how much of a course correct this film really is, but whatever. I did find the Snokes in the tanks to be a tad funny, but it makes sense and I’m glad they didn’t waste time explaining exactly how that works. There will undoubtedly be an EU novel soon that will explain the whole thing. Overall though, I loved Palpatine’s new design. Although he was hooked up to a big machine, it still seems that he’s been cloned (makes sense considering the Snokes) considering how he no longer has a “melted” face but instead just looks like an old man with pale white skin. The white eyes and how his expressions changes in between flashes of light was a really cool effect that gave him that otherworldly feeling that the PT unfortunately toned down. The whole design actually reminded me of Bela Lugosi and the pale skin even gave him a B&W film feel. As a matter of the whole Bexol, or whatever the planet was called, reminded me a lot of Dark Empire, and although that will clearly annoy some people, I’m personally quite leased with it. TBH there really wasn’t much about this aspect of the film that I didn’t like. The hidden gigantic fleet and Palpatine attacking the rebel “fleet” with force lighting was fairly over the top, but at this point I don’t really care, and why not embrace the more absurd elements of SW at this point.

However I don’t really know what to think about the new twist regarding Rey’s identity. She’s apparently Palpatine’s granddaughter? The film didn’t really explain it. Palpatine just calls her his granddaughter, but never elaborates. Was Rey’s mother or father his child? And when did he father this child? Obviously this will be explained in the EU at some point, but I felt like this was a bit more important. But he also implies that he’s Anakin’s father, though that would obviously be through the force. Either way it makes the whole Reylo thing kind of weird now.

Speaking of Kylo Ren, I thought his arc was handled quite well in this. His redemption moment of tossing his saber into the sea was a nice reversal of his TFA scene and the stuff where he came to help Rey at the end was quite fun. The ability to move stuff via the force-link will probably annoy some people, but I thought it was a nice extension of the raindrops in TLJ.

I do however find it a bit funny that they actually ended up canonizing a fan theory that been circulating that Rey’s rapid growth in force abilities has to do with her literally being a divergence in the force like Anakin was. I can’t say I love that idea, but since TFA and TLJ are what they are, I’ll take it.

My biggest gripe with the film, oddly enough has to do with who dies at the end. I honestly would have much preferred if they had switched the deaths so that Ben lived and Rey died. Not only is Ben giving his life-force to Rey a really odd stretch considering how Anakin basically went dark side for that specific ability (more or less), but I guess he’s also a divergence in the force, or something like that, so why not. The main reason it bugs me is because I think the alternative would have been better narrative-wise. After all, Anakin, Obi-Wan and Luke had meaningful hero’s deaths, and I think it would have meant more if Rey had done the same and Ben was left behind to follow her example and do the right thing. There would have been so many opportunities for interesting stories in the EU or even other films post TROS if Ben had survived and became the Skywalker (technically speaking) who would continue the Jedi way, which BTW he was involved with for a fair while before Snoke/Palpatine corrupted him. Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I think this would have been way more interesting.

A few minor quibbles;

I still don’s know what “Rise of Skywalker” is supposed to mean and was there any real meaning to Rey returning to Tatooine at the end. The yellow lightsaber made me smile, and the ghost Luke and Leia was a nice moment, but burying their lightsabers there didn’t seem to have any real significance other than Abrams getting to shot a Tatooine scene.

Also the Knights of Ren kinda got the Phasma treatment. It’s almost like a ST tradition by now to build up hype around character/s and then just kill them off. At least they got to do something cool in this film before they were all killed.

Post
#1311744
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

timdiggerm said:

ZkinandBonez said:

I don’t really have much more to say without going into spoilers. It was weird, convoluted, but it was entertaining.

I mean, you’re in the right thread for spoilers?

I thought we had to wait until it had been released everywhere? Or at least hide obvious spoilers (who dies and such) and I’m currently on my phone so I don’t know how to do that right now.

Post
#1311741
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Well, I just got back from seeing TROS and summed up shortly;

It’s a complete mess, but at least it’s an entertaining mess.

I have to say that the Palpatine scenes really “saved” it for me, though it does also constantly remind me of how much of a course correct this film is. Some will probably love it for that very reason, some people will hate it for that reason, and I can’t really say I feel either way about it. It had heart, it looked great, action was fine, though it’s also so filled with retcons that I’m curious to see how the EU is going to make it all fit together. I honestly think they borrowed some fan theories to justify things from the previous two films, and at this point I can only say: “sure, why not.”

The most interesting thing to me really is seeing just how dense this franchise has gotten considering how simple the OT was. This film is jam-packed with so much it was almost overwhelming at times. Though the film did actually manage to slow down and have more quiet moments, so I’ll give them that.

I don’t really have much more to say without going into spoilers. It was weird, convoluted, but it was entertaining.

Post
#1311127
Topic
The original Marvel Star Wars series
Time

Does anyone know where this poster is from?

Is this something that was officially released with the comics or is this some kid of fan collage? The picture at the bottom right is one of the posters that we discussed earlier in the thread, the top right panel with Vader I think is from #52 To take the Tarkin and the two stormtroppers on the middle-left is Luke and Han from the ANH adaptation. The rest I’m not too sure about.

Post
#1311125
Topic
<strong>The Mandalorian</strong> - a general discussion thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

canofhumdingers said:

Well said ZkinandBonez. While we might have minor differences in opinion here and there, I think you did a great job generally summing up my thoughts on the show so far. Episode 2 is also my favorite. I totally love that episode and may be unfairly judging every episode since (even though I love episode 3 and 4 too).

And I don’t dislike any episode, I just found the most recent two to be weaker when compared to some of the material that came before. I did find the twileks to be rather cringe-inducing clichéd ‘90’s cyberpunk (if that’s the right word?) stereotypes and I think they brought the whole episode down a notch.

Cyberpunk is actually a pretty good comparison for the two Twi-leks, though funnily enough that’s why I actually liked them, though I see why a lot of people found them to be a bit weird/annoying. Maybe it’s because I really like the 90’s cyberpunk style (as well as that of the 80’s) overall and a lot of the EU characters from the games and comics I read as a kid and teenager where quite similar to the characters of this episode, so it never stood out to me.


Minor nitpick though; the joke about stormtroopers having bad aim was a tad too meta for me, and ironically this show has only reinforced the fact that stormtroopers (at least in live-action SW) has pretty solid aim.