ZkinandBonez

RogueLeader said:

Honestly I think it would make more sense to introduce her as a new side/main character in the Rebels sequel. If it is a direct sequel to Rebels, following Sabine and Ahsoka’s quest to find Ezra, maybe she could come along on the journey.

Personally I would love a more general post-ROTJ series that brings in vibes of the popular post-Endor EU stories. It could be a perfect way to show the further adventures of Luke, Han and Leia, and their story could converge with that of Ezra, Sabine, Ahsoka and Thrawn.

Right, and I can see it working, I just personally think Filoni’s series are better when he’s just left to work with his own characters. So far the only “higher priority” characters have been movie related, which makes sense, and even then Rebels had very few new movie references other than Saw (which was technically a CW character first anyway). I do like your post-Endor suggestion though, and I’d love to see him do something similar to CW with Luke, Leia, etc. He’s already shown that he can do Leia, Lando, etc. really well, so seeing the OT gang alongside Rebels favourites like Ezra and Ahsoka would be a great foundation for a new Filoni cartoon. I just personally feel that adding a bunch of Marvel comics characters would just muddy it all up, better for him to prioritize his own continuity and the relevant live action stuff that most of the viewers have probably seen anyway.

Broom Kid said:

Rumor is we’re getting a sequel to Rebels after this, and possibly an animated show based on Doctor Aphra.

I haven’t watched Resistance, but from what I’ve gathered it hasn’t continued any of Filoni’s main story threads, so a Rebels sequel is good news. I’ve been re-watching it recently and now that SW seems to move into TV series territory, and since Disney+ seems like it will be making bolder stuff than what Disney XD allowed, it seems like the right time to (hopefully) complete Ahsoka and Ezra’s stories.

Not too sure about Aphra though, seems like a weird choice. Admittedly I never really liked the character (what I have read was just fine IMO), but I still don’t really see that character getting her own series. It seems like an odd thing to do for someone who’s story so far has been told exclusively through comics. Could these rumors relate to something similar to the Forces of Destiny shorts maybe? That makes more sense to me.

Mocata said:

I see RO was being similar to John Carenter’s The Thing, which also had a strong cast of characters, despite none of them having any clear backstory, shown or told. We learn who those character truly are through their response to the crisis in the film, and I personally think that’s so much more interesting than just a series of flashbacks

The Thing is a masterpiece, carried by a cast who are distinct with small amounts of screen time between them. They are memorable and often charismatic. RO has no such cast. And it’s the wrong genre for that sort of ensemble.

A war film can’t have an ensemble cast? I mean that’s what RO is, it’s a war film set in the SW universe. In a sense RO is The Dirty Dozen in space, so I’m not sure how an ensemble cast can be incorrect for the genre.

Also, those first two sentences are extremely subjective, and many people would say that RO has all of those attributes. They are all distinct characters, I personally would say that they are quite memorable (same more so than others, but that also applies to The Thing). And many of the characters are quite charismatic, at least to the extent that it makes sense within a somewhat gloomy war film.

Mocata said:

canofhumdingers said:
When he found the hallway full of rebels, he did what he routinely does in the OT and goes into action.

What he routinely does is stand behind the front line cannon fodder while they die in droves, then he steps forward to assess the damage. He doesn’t move that fast, ever, and he doesn’t use his lightsaber or the force wastefully like that. If only the way he acts was the issue… but the main problem is that he’s clearly been added in a reshoot for fan-service. Any theme of sacrifice (which was barely achieved with the blandest cast) is thrown out by a finale that cheers on the bad guy. Am I crazy is this all wrong to anyone else?

Fan service aside, Vader’s situation was rather unique in RO compared to anything we saw in the OT. In ANH they had the Tantive IV in a tractor beam, it was trapped within their hangar bay and a whole SD compliment was ready to storm the crew of one little ship. In RO there was a massive battle going on that was completely unexpected and the DS plans had been transmitted aboard a ship that could take off at any minute. In such a desperate situation it would be dumb to not send in Darth Vader if he was available. After all, pre-ANH, that was pretty much Vader’s role in the empire, to do the jobs that ordinary troopers couldn’t do (not easily anyway). Storming the Tantive IV after it had been captured was a task that didn’t require Vader, storming the Tantive IV while they were still downloading the DS plans and could escape at any minute, that is a task for Vader.

Also the idea of “cheering” Vader on is a bit of a misreading of the scene. Yes, people like Vader, but the scene is clearly meant to be intense and frightening, and in the same way that people like horror movies, people like seeing Vader being menacing. So yes, it’s fan service, but it’s also an intense scene adding tension and urgency to the rebels escape from Scarif. Also, the strange thing about SW is that interpretations are always very different between fans and regular viewers. I thought the Vader scene was “cool”, and so did my brother who’s also a SW fan, but other people I’ve talked to found the scene scary and/or tense, and there were definitely kids in the theater who were shocked to see Vader mow down good guys.

Voss Caltrez said:

Z6PO said:

Look at the automobiles from the fifties, with all their curves, and then by the seventies they’re all boxy.

But it still doesn’t make sense.
1950s cars are all curvy, 70s they get more boxy.
But why is it that all the “1950s” ships in the PT look like they just got driven off the lot, while the “1970s” ships in the OT look like they’ve been around for more than 20 years? They’re all dirty, and worn-in.

The general idea is that since the rebels didn’t have a “military budget” they simply got whatever they could get their hands on, and aesthetics wasn’t exactly a priority either. The Y-Wings f.ex. are canonically old de-commissioned CW-era fighters that had been stripped down to their bare essential even before they stole them. Also the OT is after all 20-ish years post PT, so even if some of the more “modern” boxy designs are only 10 or so years old, that’s plenty of time for them to end up looking old and worn in by a rebellion that literally hides out in caves and has minimal equipment for maintenance. The degree of wear also varies from ship to ship. The Tantive IV and the Calamari cruisers are much more well maintained as they were in the service of their respective militaries before joining the rebellion, but on the other hand something like the Nebulon-B frigate is meant to be stolen imperial ships much much of their outer plating stripped off (similar to the Y-Wings.)

As far as retcons go I think they’ve mostly done a good job of it.

Mocata said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Also, how was Jyn’s origin cut? The first 10 min. or so is her backstory

The first 10 min shows her father’s history catching up with him. Her training and subsequent falling out with Saw have been dropped.

Right, I see what you mean, but still…

ZkinandBonez said:

…then we can extrapolate the rest from a combination of visuals and dialogue post time jump. Her being in a jail, being transported to a labour camp, her fighting the rebels who tries to save her, as well as her interactions of Saw, her initial disinterest with the rebellion, etc all speaks volumes of what happened post flashback. They only speak about her past twice in the film, and I don’t really see that as a problem, I’d say that’s quite efficient, not perfect of course, but quite efficient for a film like this with so many characters.

Plus, what I think is so nice about the first 10 min. of the film is that they establish the whole conflict of the film, the motivations of the main character which is directly tied with Galen’s arc as well (so two for one there), the motivations of the antagonist, and it introduces us to a character that becomes relevant later on. A flashbacks to her time with Saw could have been nice, but I’m also glad that RO didn’t turn into Lost where every other scene turns into a flashback. It worked for that show, but would have bogged down this film. And I don’t see the use of exposition as a problem if it adds to or clarifies what we have seen before. I mean the OT has several scenes where people just sit down as discuss something important, so I don’t see why RO can’t get away with it (I’d even say they did it better in some cases).

Mocata said:

The problem is that we are told his backstory not shown it. The same with Jyn since hers was cut. It’s the same as Anakin and Obiwan being “good friends”. We never see that. He’s in a bad place after being in the war so long? So much for TLJ being the only example of deconstruction and grey areas. Too bad our experience in the movie is him flying about with a comedy robot, and a couple of darker moments that are quickly glossed over.

I see what you mean, though I’m personally glad that the film wasn’t a collection of backstories. I feel that backstories are quite overrated, and what I liked about RO was that we learned about the characters through their actions and interactions with other characters. Though I’m looking forward to this series, as for RO taken on its own terms as a movie; I never felt that I needed to “see” Cassian’s past as I got what I personally needed to know from his personality and actions. I see RO was being similar to John Carenter’s The Thing, which also had a strong cast of characters, despite none of them having any clear backstory, shown or told. We learn who those character truly are through their response to the crisis in the film, and I personally think that’s so much more interesting than just a series of flashbacks (though that can of course work in other movies/shows).

Also, how was Jyn’s origin cut? The first 10 min. or so is her backstory (as well as Galen & Krennic, plus an introduction to Saw, which IMO is quite efficient storytelling), then we can extrapolate the rest from a combination of visuals and dialogue post time jump. Her being in a jail, being transported to a labour camp, her fighting the rebels who tries to save her, as well as her interactions of Saw, her initial disinterest with the rebellion, etc all speaks volumes of what happened post flashback. They only speak about her past twice in the film, and I don’t really see that as a problem, I’d say that’s quite efficient, not perfect of course, but quite efficient for a film like this with so many characters.

TK-949 said:

I honestly don’t remember. I have seen the movie twice, and just remember I couldn’t relate to any of the characters, especially Ando Carissan (I’d like to buy two L and an I), therefore I didn’t care if they were successful or if they survived or not. Not to mention the further damage done to Darth Vader’s character. I’d have to watch it again to come up with specific reasons, why I dislike him so much, but I don’t intend to, unless it’s a version without Special Effects and cut to only Alan Tudyk’s scenes.

But I have to admit, I might give it a chance. It could be as awesome as the Mandalorian, if the right people worked on it. Filoni managed to make Anakin a likeable character. I watched the hell out of The Clone Wars, but I still won’t watch any of the Prequels ever again.

Fair enough. This is of course very subjective and I personally really liked all the characters, especially Bodhi Rook, whom (apart from Jyn) I think changed the most. I can see why Andor was a bit underwhelming to a lot of people though, but that’s one of the reasons why I think this show could be really interesting.

Not sure what you mean about the Vader scenes though? How did it “damage” the character. There were no signs of the PT version, he was foreboding, lethal, witty, all things that I personally would associate with OT Vader. I get the fanservice argument (I just don’t see that as a problem myself), but I honestly can’t see how anything was wrong with his characterization. If anything I’d say that was one of RO’s big accomplishments.

TK-949 said:

Great. The most unlikable character from the worst of the Disney movies gets his own show. Yay!

What’s so bad about him? I’m genuinely curious as I’ve seen others express similar opinions.

I personally thought he was a really interesting, albeit somewhat underdeveloped character (though that’s hard to do with an ensemble cast anyway). The idea of a rebel who’s willing to bend the rules a bit and get his hands dirty for the “greater good” or just in order to survive is, to me at least, a really interesting alternative to the squeaky clean rebels that we usually got in the OT and EU material. The thing I really liked about the RO characters was that all they all seemed like real people with elaborate backstories and unique motivations, but we only got glimpses of it through their actions during the conflict of the film.

Mocata said:

They look interesting as a design regardless though. In fact both sides in the PT look neat. Too bad they exist so that no real people die in the Clone Wars.

Clones aren’t real people? Also, judging by the Mandalorian there were lots of civilian losses.

Mocata said:

It’s probably CGI? So logically speaking there is no saber prop. To have a physical door melt next to the actor would require some interesting chemical choices. Maybe it’s a miniature they blue screened into the shot in post?

I was thinking the latter; that they melted a prop and then added Liam Neeson in later or just the melting element was added to the shot with Neeson and the door. The way some of the shots are framed though it would make sense that Neeson was added in later. The spark is definitely added in post as the light bouncing off Neeson is way too weak and looks fake (provided you slow down the clip that is).

It could of course be CG, but if so it’s very advanced for the late 90’s. It’s possible they did melt something for real and then used it for reference when animating it.

ray_afraid said:

ZkinandBonez said:

MrSundayMovies recently did a retrospective video on the whole Shadow of the Empire multimedia project, which was pretty interesting on its own, but he recently uploaded the two cinematic sections created for the video. Both are essentially just partially animated illustrations with diloague/narration from two chapters from the book, but they’re quite good, especially as little short films on their own.

The Emperor, Darth Vader & Xizor - Shadows Of The Empire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j2WUwTi7_4

Darth Vader Meditation - Shadows Of The Empire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9nGydqkNKQ

Few weeks late, but after just watching their newest video I was reminded of this & came here to post.
It’s really fantastic. The animation is great!

Yeah. Regardless of how short or simple it is I’m always glad to see old EU novels like Shadows of the Empire get some attention.

Maybe a bit of an odd topic, but I couldn’t find any other thread that fit for this.

I figured this could be a place to discuss any special effects shot(s) in any of the SW movies that for one reason or another can’t be easily solved just by googling it. F.ex. most of the OT effects are so well known and have been discussed for so long that it’s not hard to find a detailed breakdown of almost any effect done for those movies (though I’m sure some do exist), however this isn’t always the case for the PT, ST, etc. So if there’s an effect shot that has been nagging you for a while maybe ask about it here and hopefully someone has a source of info about how it as done or at least we can discuss and theorize as to how it was pulled off.

I’ll start with this:

Does anyone know how they did the melting metal effect when Qui-Gon cuts through the blast-doors at the start of TPM? I could be wrong, but it looks too good to simply be a late 90’s CG effect, so I figured maybe there’s some kind of combination of CG and practical elements. The shots of the door melting from seen from the inside looks very practical, but I couldn’t find any info about this scene at all.

https://youtu.be/eZ2fRsTSF4Q?t=132

Mike O said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Mike O said:

So the Criterion Channel will be hosting this movie next month. Bet they’ll sacrifice their integrity and participate in Lucas’ historical revisionism like TCM do now. I’d love to be wrong though.

It’s going to be the new version, yes; https://youtu.be/1x6sOHzgIyw?t=7

Though I personally would go so far as to say “sacrificing their integrity.” There’s hardly anything they or TCM can do about it. They “rent” the film from the company that owns them (Fox? Dinsey? I’ve lost track) and the new version is what they’re given. They’re probably counting their losses as the film is at least available in some fashion.

Then they should choose not to show the movie at all, though I confess that for financial reasons, that’s probably not possible.

I doubt there’s any serious financial loss for not showing the film. They probably feel that it’s better for people to see the new version of the film than to simply never see it at all. If I was in their place I’d do the same thing. Better that people see an (obviously) altered version than to never be exposed to it at all. It’s a really weird situation that thankfully only apply to a handful of films.

Mike O said:

So the Criterion Channel will be hosting this movie next month. Bet they’ll sacrifice their integrity and participate in Lucas’ historical revisionism like TCM do now. I’d love to be wrong though.

It’s going to be the new version, yes; https://youtu.be/1x6sOHzgIyw?t=7

Though I personally would go so far as to say “sacrificing their integrity.” There’s hardly anything they or TCM can do about it. They “rent” the film from the company that owns them (Fox? Dinsey? I’ve lost track) and the new version is what they’re given. They’re probably counting their losses as the film is at least available in some fashion.

darklordoftech said:

Mara Jade having a pink lightsaber.

Her first lightsaber was purple, not pink.

Also, most of the time (post ROTJ) she used Luke/Anakin’s blue lightsaber anyway.

You know, if you try to remove your knowledge/memory of how TPM actually ended up being it’s not hard to see why this trailer got people so hyped back in 1999; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnhqwRQf04A

I kinda wish trailers were still like this, it’s so much more dramatic than the generic “factory-made” clip-shows that so many trailers are nowadays.

(PS. I’m personally really nostalgic for TPM since it was my first SW film so I’m not trying to start a discussion about the quality of the film or anything like that, I was just really impressed by this trailer.)

I didn’t actualy notice this one on my own, but during the Obi-Wan vs Grevious scene on Utapau, you can very briefly, behind the big lizard creature, see a clone trooper boxing a battle droid.

https://youtu.be/qJg8Pui6KZk?t=189

DominicCobb said:

I doubt even PT fans could name any of Padme’s ships.

I don’t think it even had a name, it was just referred to as a Nubian starship.

Also, I was referring to the overall design being striking and memorable. There really aren’t that many starships in an SW content that’s even comparable to the Falcon in terms of being both visually striking and having a memorable name. The few who do, like the Outrider, Ebon Hawk, the Ghost, etc. are all more-or-less Falcon copies, or at at least very similar. The more formal tone of the PT and the lack of any “home” starships did prevent it from having named vessels the same way the OT era does. It still had a lot of cool designs that stood out though.

Not really anything new here, but it’s always fun to see videos about this subject matter;

Star Wars Comics: The Saga You Don’t Know About - Behind the Panel | SYFY WIRE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2PzwNIFVMA&t

Some interesting interviews with Duffy, Simonsons, etc. They kinda brush past the Dark Horse years and the stuff about the new comics was a bit weird and cajoling IMO (I would hardly call Kieron Gillen’s Vader series a “modern masterpiece”). Pretty interesting watch overall though, Simonson is always fun in these kinds of videos and this was actually the first time I’d seen an interview with Jo Duffy.

Saying that something is “not as iconic as the Millennium Falcon” isn’t much of a critique. That’s a bit like how people keep saying that the new SW scores aren’t as good as John Williams’ scores. Not being as good as one of cinema’s greatest composers is not saying much, and neither is saying something is not as iconic one of the most iconic and well known ships in sci-fi and film history. I agree that Padme’s chrome ships are pretty striking, and to the PT generation they is quite memorable. It’s all quite relative, to a certain degree anyway. F.ex. despite having read/played a lot of EU material, I had honestly never heard of the Ebon Hawk until now as I never got around to playing the KOTOR games.

I’ve developed a really loose sense of canonicity recently. In general I simply like what I like, be it new canon or Legends, but obviously a lot of it is made specifically to fit within a larger narrative. I tend to think of a book, or animated series as being connected to specific “roots”. F.ex. I’ve been re-watching Rebels lately and apart from the obvious connections, that being the movies that preceded it, it’s clear that it’s a Filoni show and many of the narrative threads connect to Clone Wars. It also occurred to me that although characters from the show have showed up in the Marvel comics series, there hasn’t been any comic characters appearing in the animated series. F.ex. Hera showed up in an issue of Doctor Aphra, but Filoni couldn’t care less to bother to include Aphra in Rebels. So when I watch Rebels I only take CW, the OT and the PT into consideration. Although it technically belongs in the larger official EU, narrative-wise it belongs in its own little Filoni pocket universe that originated with the movies. And although I have no issues reading something like the Plagueis novel (which I really enjoyed btw), I do think there’s a certain charm to content from early in the various continuities, like the old Marvel comics, the EU novels in the 90’s before things got too complicated, or some of the new stuff that hasn’t had a chance to get bogged down yet. Having said that, even the Plagueis novel mostly just connects to the PT, the Darth Bane trilogy and Shadow Hunter. There’s subtle references to other EU stories, but they’re mostly just easter eggs, and it’s clear which stories the author intended to connect to it. Ideally a SW thing should work on its own, but often it does feel like each author adds his/her story to their own little pocket universes.

Maybe this is me over analyzing things, but I tend to always treat each SW things as its own thing (if possible) and I think more about its real-life context than its place in a larger continuity.

ZkinandBonez said:

oojason said:

^ brilliant mate - though now I’m hungry again and have only just eaten 😃

Thanks.

---

And for an actual SW-related random thought;

YouTube recently decided to recommend a 1952 movie-serial called Radar Men from the Moon and the main character is wearing a helmet, has a jet-pack, and is named Commando Cody. I wonder if this might have been one of Lucas’ inspirations for Boba/Jango Fett as well as Commander Cody.

Well, that answers that question; https://youtu.be/m4LFX-RWfn4?t=485

I thought the Mando’s face reveal was done really well. It was short, simple, and added to the story. Before the show aired I was a bit concerned that the Mando would just be a cool-looking tough guy with no personality and was pleased to see that they managed to give him a relatable personality and even a surprising range of emotions despite never showing his face. So I thought it was a nice touch to remove his helmet during such a vulnerable moment for the character. Having IG-11 remove it was also a clever way to both add to his character growth while also avoiding him breaking his creed rules.

theprequelsrule said:

NeverarGreat said:

He looks genuinely creepy in this. Definitely up there with ROTJ but in a more undead way.

Well, that’s one positive at least. How about Ian’s performance? In ROTJ it was a nice balance of real creepiness with schlock villain. Again, in ROTS in was too over the top into schlock.

More on the serious side, but without being dull. He has a few evil cackling moments, but overall he’s quite grim and dramatic. Again, he’s kinda ghostly and creepy, don’t know how else to describe it.

The way his expressions changed every time a flash of lightning lit up his face was also a really cool and creepy effect. Overall, I think Palpatine was done in a really interesting way that was both familiar and different at the same time.