ZkinandBonez

ray_afraid said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

ray_afraid said:

I hate the PT lightsaber handles though. They just don't look the same as the ones in the OT.

The PT lightsabers in general or just the ones that are meant to be the same lightsabers used by Ben and Luke in the OT? 

 Oh, I mean the new ones.
I don't remember if the ones that are supposed to be the OT ones are good or not.
I remember Dukoos, and I actually liked it.
I just remember all the ones in TPM looking stupid. And cheap.

 
Obi-Wan's first lightsaber, and Qui-Gon's lightsaber.

 
Obi-Wan's second lightsaber (ANH, AOTC & ROTS), and Anakin/Luke's lightsaber. Vader's lightsaber is practically the same design, only in black.

There's definitely a big change in lightsaber designs between the OT and the PT. But then again they were very different in the OT as well. The TPM ones seems more standardized, whereas Obi-Wan'a second lightsaber, which is almost identical to Luke's green saber look more like they've been put together using spare parts. Anakin/Vader's two lightsabers on the other hand always looked more stylized. Might be a reflection Anakin/Vader's ego, whereas Obi-Wan's lighsaber, and later Luke's, have more of a practical look.

It was really AOTC and ROTS who went all out with weird lightsaber designs. Dooku obviously had his weird bent lightsaber hilt, and Palpatine/Sidious' lightsaber was practically made out of gold and silver. 

I've always felt that Naboo was one of the "good parts" of TPM. Not only is Theed a very pretty-looking location, but it was one of the few PT locations that felt like it could belong in the SW-universe, while at the same time being different from anything we had previously seen. 
And although I realize there are people who really despise queen Amidala's wardrobe, I can't quite shake that feeling that had TPM not been as poorly written (and had no Jar Jar to ruin everyone's mood) I think people would have remembered her strange look much more fondly.

  
Amidala's design being inspired by Mongolian royalty kind of fits into the SW's general style, which was originally heavily influenced by Japanese culture. If Vader's design was based on samurai generals, why not Mongolian rayalty in the PT?

And maybe this is a somewhat controversial opinion, but I actually kind of like the design of the Gungans. Of course their silly behavior, not to mention their speech, leave much to be desired. But again, had the characters been written differently, but the design kept exactly the same, I think we would have liked them a whole lot more.

Heck, even Jar Jar looked kind of cool in some of the early concept art ideas.

I really like this painting. Jar Jar actually looks like a dignified character, rather than being the complete goof he turned out to be. I'm curious as to who actually made this as it shows a very different version of Jar Jar than all the other concept art that was made.

All in all I think that the design of TPM is it's strong side. It may be a bit strange some times but it wasn't as out of place in the SW-universe as many of the Ep. II and III design choices were. The real sinner in TPM was George's mediocre writing, retconning and terrible attempts at humour.

However since this thread is mostly about bad designs I'll finish by showing what is possibly the ugliest concept art for Jar Jar I have yet to see. Seriously this design is so ugly it actually makes me appreciate the current design to some degree.

I realize I'm a fair bit late to discussion, but I just thought I should share this:

"Silent Drifting" from 1979. 

Wookiepedia plot summary:
"After Han Solo used some skillful piloting of the Millenium Falcon to destroy some TIE fighter, Princess Leia mentioned that Jedi pilots developed that same maneuver and she tells of one particular event involving Obi-Wan Kenobi. Kenobi was traveling as a passenger on a pleasure cruiser when he was notified by Captain Quasar that Merson pirates had been spotted in the Merson asteroid field....."

It almost seems like it was written specifically to avoid any possible contradictions to Lucas' still developing canon (I'm guessing they were aware of ESB being in production at this time). It makes no reference to either the Clone Wars or Anakin. However it does show a considerably cockier Obi-Wan than we got in the PT, and it's interesting how he was simply travelling as a passenger on a "pleasure cruise." It's quite the deviation of the monk-like Jedis of the PT. Obi-Wan does however turn down an "addictive stimulant" at some point, so he's still the disciplined warrior that was implied in the OT.
Obi-Wan also seems to be wearing a costume somewhat similar to what Luke ended up with in ROTJ. Which is interesting considering that this was written in 1979.

I also found a interesting pre-prequel reference to C-3PO's origins: 

According to some notes made by Lucas in 1977 he was constructed at a Cybot Galactica plant on the planet Affa in 112 BBY.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Affa
(The EU has apparently retconned this into the TPM/PT lore so that he was originally built on Affa only to later be dismantled and discarded on the streets of Mos Espa where Anakin eventually found and rebuilt him.)

emanswfan said:

First look at Ken Leung's character from TFA:

What kind of uniform is that supposed to be?
It's brown so I doubt that it could be a First Order uniform. Could this be a new type of Alliance uniform?

.Mac. said:

ZkinandBonez said:

It also interesting how Phasma doesn't have a textured head under the helmet. We already know who plays the character, so why bother making it a mystery. Makes you wonder if there's something special going on about Phasma.

That's what I am curious about too. I was thinking "well maybe it's just because she'll never be seen taking her helmet off, as Boba Fett didn't either in the OT, therefore adding to the mystery of the character?" ...but even the Boba Fett Lego minifig has a face (thanks to the PT?)... So yeah I'm wondering also why hers is just black. Maybe she is actually a cyborg/droid and her face/head is just the helmet that we see? Not sure I'd like that, though.

You're probably right about her face remaining a mystery in TFA. And yes, Boba Fett having a face on the current Legos is a PT thing. I went looking through my old SW Legos that I got when I was about seven or eight years old, which was right after TPM had come out, and a few years before AOTC retconned his appearance. And what do you know, Boba Fett didn't have a face, just a black head like Phasma has now; http://i.imgur.com/didxLGc.jpg

SS4DarthPayne said:

ZkinandBonez said:

SS4DarthPayne said:

Ok, not posted here yet, so here are some leaked pics of the Lego sets:

http://imgur.com/a/P3cOh

I've seen some mixed thoughts on Poe's X-Wing color scheme, but personally I'm a big fan of it. I was also immediately most interested in the guy in the middle of this picture: http://i.imgur.com/wD6dUoX.jpg thinking that maybe it was some new and or important person. Anyone have thoughts on that? However, it may not be that special, as some people are thinking it is merely this guy: http://www.starwars7news.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Jakku-BTS.jpg

I'm pretty sure that the guy you're referring to in the last link is just Finn in disguise.

It also interesting how Phasma doesn't have a textured head under the helmet. We already know who plays the character, so why bother making it a mystery. Makes you wonder if there's something special going on about Phasma.

(I also posted some of these pictures on the forum about a week ago;
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THE-FORCE-AWAKENS-Episode-VII-Discussion-SPOILER-THREAD-See-OP-For-Trailer-Links/topic/16649/page/143/)

 

Damn, didn't see that. My bad, I normally follow this thread pretty closely. Do you have a particular reason you think it's Finn in disguise? That thought hadn't occurred to me

Well now that I looked at the pictures again it occurred to me that you were probably referring to the two masked guys in the background. Was that the case? Since you said "this guy" I assumed you meant the guy in the foreground with the goggles, which does look like Finn wearing some kind of disguise. 

As for the Lego guy with the mask, I have no clue. He doesn't really look like any of the people on the picture to me. Of course it could be that the scene that that picture is from has several masked aliens. We'll just have to wait and see.

SS4DarthPayne said:

Ok, not posted here yet, so here are some leaked pics of the Lego sets:

http://imgur.com/a/P3cOh

I've seen some mixed thoughts on Poe's X-Wing color scheme, but personally I'm a big fan of it. I was also immediately most interested in the guy in the middle of this picture: http://i.imgur.com/wD6dUoX.jpg thinking that maybe it was some new and or important person. Anyone have thoughts on that? However, it may not be that special, as some people are thinking it is merely this guy: http://www.starwars7news.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Jakku-BTS.jpg

I'm pretty sure that the guy you're referring to in the last link is just Finn in disguise.

It also interesting how Phasma doesn't have a textured head under the helmet. We already know who plays the character, so why bother making it a mystery. Makes you wonder if there's something special going on about Phasma.

(I also posted some of these pictures on the forum about a week ago;
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THE-FORCE-AWAKENS-Episode-VII-Discussion-SPOILER-THREAD-See-OP-For-Trailer-Links/topic/16649/page/143/)

joefavs said:

Dagobah's lousy with regular old Earth lizards and snakes. Pigs don't seem like a leap at all. None of that matters anyway, though, since at the end of the day it's just a surname.

It doesn't really matter, I was just being a nitpick. SW is a fantasy/sci-fi universe which can have pretty much anything the creators want to put into it. So why not pigs. They already have humans, regular birds, lizards and snakes, so why not pigs as well?

And speaking of the creators being able to put into SW whatever the heck they feel like, I just remembered the giant pig creature that will be appearing on Jakku in TFA.

ray_afraid said:

^Right. Which is why they can nickname someone Porkins even though there may or may not be pigs in space. It's for the audience to relate to. Like Han saying "I'll see you in Hell!" That doesn't necessarily mean there's a religion in that galaxy that believes in Heaven and Hell.

Right. Same reason someone can be called Droopy McCool or Wicket W. Warrick. It doesn't always have to make perfect sense. It is after all a set of films about fictional characters. I often wish the EU writers would realize this. I can't help but roll my eyes sometimes when I read about characters or species on Wookiepedia.
For example; you can get a pretty extensive analysis of the biolgy and appearance of the Sarlacc. I personally can't help but feel that we never needed an answers to these kinds of questions, and that many of them should never have been answered.  I actually preffered to not know what a full Sarlacc looked like. I enjoyed the mystery surrounding the image of a large gaping mouth in the desert. It had a nice and weird fantasy feel to it. It was more about impact, than an attempt at realism. But now it's just another funky-looking animal that you can look up on a wiki. 
You kind of lose some of the magic with this kind of over-analysis. It don't need a full explanation, it's not real life. 

DuracellEnergizer said:

ZkinandBonez said:

They have pigs in the SW universe?

Why not? The original humans must have brought other terrestrial animals with them when they left Earth for the galaxy far, far away.

That's a very literal interpretation of why there's humans ins SW.
I'm pretty there are humans in SW because weird looking aliens from a galaxy far, far away would have been hard to identify with. Also you have to keep in mind that SW is more fantasy than sci-fi, so the reason there's humans there is pretty much the same reason they're in Middle Earth; because we need someone familiar to identify with. 

ray_afraid said:

ZkinandBonez said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Included with the Millennium Falcon set however is a man called Tasu Leech

Yet another silly TFA name to add to the list of silly TFA names. Is that the sixth one, now? Seventh?

Still a less silly name than Porkins.

 Oh, come on.. Porkins was obviously his nickname. Sheesh.

They have pigs in the SW universe?
I'm pretty sure it was just Lucas trying to be funny.

Ryan McAvoy said:

A younger Jake Lloyd, surely?

 How about the older Jake Lloyd?

DuracellEnergizer said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Included with the Millennium Falcon set however is a man called Tasu Leech

Yet another silly TFA name to add to the list of silly TFA names. Is that the sixth one, now? Seventh?

Still a less silly name than Porkins.
Also maybe it's a nickname, he is a gang member after all. And of course the official canon before Disney changed it had a swoop gang leader called Big Gizz.

I don't understand the strong reactions to these names, SW has always had some pretty silly names, especially for supporting characters and villains. 

Anyway; anyone have a thought on this?

It looks like it's the same object, and in the Look and Find picture it looks like some kind of large droid dog.

Images of the Lego sets for Poe Dameron's X-Wing and the Millenium Falcon have been released and they reveal a few interesting details and new character from TFA.

http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/07/poe-damerons-black-x-wing-and-the-millennium-falcon-lego-sets-revealed.html

First off; we now got confirmation that BB-8 is actually Poe's droid as he comes with the X-Wing set.
Poe's X-Wing's got a pretty unusual paint-job as well.

Included with the Millennium Falcon set however is a man called Tasu Leech and a Kanjiklub member. I guess these two would be the ones who stole the Falcon and brought it to Jakku? It's interesting how one of them is just a "member," while the other has a name. It's possible then that he might have some relevance to the plot. Presumably he's some old acquaintance of Han Solo. Another interesting detail is that their weapons look kind of primitive. Of course it's hard to tell exactly with legos, but it looks like a musket and a pistol.

Imrahil said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Imrahil said:

 

Writing.  Like a screenplay, not a novel--but with lots of dashes, and constantly violating the "show, don't tell rule"--as it screams through the action.

Sentence fragments.

Irritation.

How do you "show" rather than "tell" in a novel? I'm pretty sure that's the one thing you can't do.

 

Really?

Well, in case you're being serious...you don't say 

"Wedge was sad. His dog was sick."

You say,

"Hi Wedge," Luke said, and didn't get a response. He looked at the other pilot, who seemed distracted.

"Wedge? What's up?"

"Huh? Oh, sorry Luke. I'm...well. I've been better."

Then you cut to later and reveal bit by bit that he has a sick dog, through facial expressions, dialog, etc.

Obviously the story shouldn't hinge on whether Wedge has a sick dog, but that's what the "show, don't tell" rule means.

In the excerpt from the novel, on the other hand, we have:

"“Of course,” he says, his jaundiced face tight with that grin. Tothwin is an emblem of what’s wrong with the Imperial forces now: Many of their best are gone. What’s left is, in part, the dregs."

and:

"The pressure is on. An almost literal pressure—like a fist pressing against her back, pushing the air out of her lungs.

Her chance to excel."

Ugh. So horrible.

Well I wasn't arguing that it was well written. Far from it. I was just being somewhat pedantic and therefore found the statement "show, don't tell" somewhat out of place when describing a medium that is all about "telling" a story rather than "showing" it. There are of course bad and obvious ways to tell the reader something. 
Also isn't your first example about Wedge and his dog more of a screenplay way of "showing" something? Of course I'm not saying that "Wedge was sad. His dog was sick" is the right solution. But slowly revealing that he's distracted, then "cut to later" and revealing that his dog is sick through facial expressions and dialogue, that's a very cinematic way to "show" something.

Imrahil said:

 

Writing.  Like a screenplay, not a novel--but with lots of dashes, and constantly violating the "show, don't tell rule"--as it screams through the action.

Sentence fragments.

Irritation.

How do you "show" rather than "tell" in a novel? I'm pretty sure that's the one thing you can't do.

ray_afraid said:

emanswfan said:

Note how BB-8 is being puppeteered.

 Like a puppet on a stick... interesting.

Is that BB-8 though? It looks like it has wheels. The body also looks kind of boxy.
It could be that Rey had a droid before she met BB-8. Kind of like Luke's tool droid on Tatooine before he meets R2-D2 and C-3PO.

Did anyone notice this thing?
It looks like a droid to me. 

timdiggerm said:

ray_afraid said:

What the hell is this??

They have shown many aliens that look very silly and fake.

 Have you ever watched the Cantina scene?

Remember this guy?
It's literally a praying mantis wearing a skirt.

Not the best quality pictures, but here's some more practical effects aliens and droids from TFA shown at Comic Con.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MUQjbT7Icc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqOgm4Pkyjk

Although there wasn't much doubt, at least now we have confirmation that C-3PO will have a red arm in TFA. I also noticed that the guy in the box with the air tubes cooling him off towards the end of the video has several bird-like aliens popping out of the side of his costume, which I assume makes him the guy inside the first alien we got to see from TFA (he's called Bobbajo btw.). Apparently his head was, as suspected, hidden in the pile of stuff on top of the box on the alien's back. Presumably he then puppeteers the alien's head with his hands inside the box.

However on the more speculative side of things; could the animatronic head that we got to see early on in the video be Maz Kanata? It looks very similar to the concept painting. If you imagine in with blue paint and the head scarf they're practically the same. The second thing that makes me think it's Kanata is because it's being controlled by motion-capture. This short clip is clearly and early test of the mechanics of the head, and you can see on the computer screen with the small camera on top if it a digital image of a man's face moving in sync with a recorded (possibly live) image of a man moving his mouth. It is possible that this is some new form of motion-capture that is being used to control the articulation of animatronic puppets. If so we could be seeing an animatronic Maz Kanata and Snoke in TFA. 

pittrek said:

regularjoe said:

TPM has a good, well constructed story

 What? There is another version of TPM?

Well, the basic plot structure is something that TPM actually did wrong. It has a beginning, and escalation in the middle and a big climax in the end. It even kept the use of lightsabers at a minimum so that the last fight would be more exiting. It also avoided showing us the first fight between Qui-Gon and Maul in order to make the last fight seem much more intense. AOTC and ROTS on the other hand have completely nonsensical plot structures. AOTC doen't really have a story as much as it's a very, very long build-up to a not so interesting final battle. ROTS on the other hand was basically just several climaxes with brakes in the between. It starts with a lightsaber battle, has several in the middle and ends with two of them at the same time. TPM may have had pretty bad writing, and to much CGI, but it did at least have a SW-type plot-structure, and even some well balanced action scenes. 

This part of the video got me really exited. It's 0:40 sec. into the video and it shows an animatronic in lip-sync with what appears to be a motion-capture animation on the computer screen. So it could be that both Serkis and Nyongo's mo-cap characters will actually be animatronics, and not CGI. 
I could be wrong, but I really hope that's the case. Mixing mo-cap and animatronics would definitely be a great way to mix modern digital technology with practical effects.

Oh, and here's our mystery alien as he/she'll look in the final film (more or less). I'm pretty sure this isn't going to be Maz Kanata though. It's seems a bit strange that they would reveal such an important character in such a casual manner in this video. So it's probably just another one of her pirate friends.

John Doom said:

ZkinandBonez said:

(PS. Maybe I'm being a bit dense but I have no clue what you mean by "faceless.")

:D I mean that that alien's species seem to "suffer" of a disease even worst than Anakin's: not only he doesn't have eyebrows, he/she barely has a nose, no lips, no hair and has very little ears! They seem to have an almost shapeless face.

Right, I though you were trying to make a joke or something. And I see what you mean, she/he does look a bit "burned".

 
Also now that I look closer at it's head it actually kinda looks like a coconut. Which makes the coconut drink so much more of a weird choice.

John Doom said:

ZkinandBonez said:

[...] this could be quite close to what Maz Kanata might end up looking like in the film.

That is "faceless" :D

Is he/she drinking mate tea?

 Well she wouldn't be the only one with a drink.

I get the impression that Kanata's "palace" is going to heavily allude to the Mos Eisley Cantina scene from ANH.
Heck they even got one of the extras from that scene to appear in TFA.
Also the concept art shows an alien who might be Kanata in a kitchen with what looks like a bar in the background.

(PS. Maybe I'm being a bit dense but I have no clue what you mean by "faceless.")