joefavs said:
The grammar of that "The evil never ends. Just evolves" tagline makes me want to eat a gun. I'm not terribly sure if how I phrased that even works, but I'm also not making a damn poser.
Good thing it's only a fan poster then.
Any thoughts on Colin Trevorrow having been confirmed as director of SW IX?
http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/08/disney-d23-star-wars-news-rogue-one-cast-episode-ix-director-confirmed-theme-park-attraction-more.html
I think we should all be glad that we actually got a painted poster, rather than some cheap photoshop with a tacky tagline like most movies do nowadays;
At least that's what we've been seeing from Abrams' films so far.
I also agree with DuracellEnergizer; where the heck to you guys see teal? It's orange and blue.
Also according to this webside; http://www.slashfilm.com/the-force-awakens-poster/ the poster is actually a D23 exclusive poster, meaning that there will probably be another poster in theatres come December.
Well at least we have confirmation that Finn will be using Anakin/Luke's lightsaber.
I'm also personally quite happy to see that Abrams brought Struzan back. I know a lot of people associate him with the PT and special editions, but he did after all make SW posters for the re-releases back in the 80's, and regardless it's pretty awesome to see someone use a painted movie poster in 2015. It's just so much more interesting than the lazy photoshops we tend to get these days.
TV's Frink said:
If you think that scene is good, it's even better in the version where Obi accepts the offering.
Mind altering drugs indeed, he hallucinated everything from Ric Ollie to Spock there.
Either that or Deathsticks just really get's you in touch with the force. We already have Midichlorians, so why not? The PT's ridiculous enough as it is.
Something else also just occurred to me; are Jedis allowed to drink? Because Obi-Wan was having a pretty funky looking drink in that scene. Heck, it's glowing.
SS4DarthPayne said:
So, new Lego pics?
"Unkar's thug"?
http://i.imgur.com/0Tzqmuy.jpg
I'm guessing we'll be seing a lot of criminals on Jakku.
It'll be interesting to see if he's associated with Tasu Leech or the Kanjiklub gang that we saw mentioned earlier.
It also seems like Phasma and her troops will attack the Resistance base that we've seen in the trailer;
http://i.imgur.com/wcAjjRc.jpg
TV's Frink said:
Can't answer the question, but this made me laugh:
http://deathsticks.org/soma.html
Especially that there is a "why" heading.
The "why" section was actually very convincing;
"the scene with Elan is one of those scenes that makes it wothwhile to tolerate Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman's flat acting. Matt Doran manages to infuse more life into a character that has a few seconds scene than some of the other major actors did in their much more important characters."
Can't disagree with that.
timdiggerm said:
ZkinandBonez said:
SilverWook said:
Elan is named in the credits. :)
Well, what do you know.
(I actually had to look the film up on YouTube to see if it was true. Also I haven't seen this film in roughly ten years.)
But not in the original credits!
Sigh, did Lucas change this as well?
I really don't know, like I said I haven't seen this film in like ten years and I just looked the film up on YouTube and found this image.
Is this not what appeared in theatres in 2002?
SilverWook said:
Elan is named in the credits. :)
Well, what do you know.
(I actually had to look the film up on YouTube to see if it was true. Also I haven't seen this film in roughly ten years.)
SilverWook said:
Anchorhead said:
ZkinandBonez said:
...but it's a tad better than making a blatant reference to Don Quixote.
Don Quixote and Don Juan aren't the same person. Different stories and very different characters.
*edit*
I missed the Kahotay reference. Lame on both counts.
The comics could get away with that sort of thing to a degree the movies can't. The whole of that particular storyline is completely lifted from Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven.
And I'll take Don-Wan Kihotay over Elan Sleazebaggano any day of the week. ;)
Well, at least it's an original name, sort of. I'm not really defending the PT names, all I'm saying is that I'm at least glad that the PT didn't have references to classical literature all over them.
I mean could you imagine if Lucas' PT characters started making blatant references to Shakespeare? Like you said it was funny in the comic books as a joke, but it could never have worked in the films.
Although pointing out that the Eight for Aduba-3 storyline was taken from Seven Samurai is kind of funny, since ANH is more or less Akira Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress in space. Some of the early drafts was quite literally just that. So who knows, maybe Kihotay would have made sense as a canon character back in the pre-PT days.
I think it's practically impossible to define what makes REAL SW stories anymore. There's just to much of it, and to many contradictions to make any sense of it.
(Also it's not like Sleazanbaggano was named in the film, plus we already had Porkins (named) and Droopy McCool (not named) in the OT.)
SilverWook said:
If Lucas was paying enough attention at the time to give my favorite meat eating rabbit trouble, he or an assistant could have sent notes about Jedi garb.
Given that the Marvel guys weren't able to do anything with Vader for a while, (after the movie adaptation, he didn't reappear until issue 21) I imagine an Obi Wan story had to be run by someone at Lucasfilm?
It's possible, but of course Lucas would never admit that nowadays.
But then you have to wonder, is Kihotay's armour and robes also pre-PT canon then, or just Obi-Wan's black uniform?
SilverWook said:
It's debatable whether Kihotay was just a crazy old guy who admired the Jedi, and found a lost lightsaber though. His name is a lot better than some prequel characters I won't name. ;)
He did don some armor when going into battle.
The Obi Wan flashback story from issue #24, set during the Old Republic era gives us a different outfit, which ties in nicely with Luke's ROTJ look.
All true, I'm just saying that if you ignore the PT lore, you can really get away with anything. The early pre-PT EU is a great example of that.
I also think it's pretty amazing that they predicted Luke's black outfit several years before ROTJ. I doubt that it's anything but a coincidence, but it's still pretty interesting.
The Marvel SW comic were had some pretty wacky interpretations of the SW lore anyway.
(As for Kihotay having a better name than the PT character, I'm not to sure if I agree with that. At least the PT never made any blatant references to already existing, non SW characters. I mean Grevious, Plegeuis and Tyrannus is some pretty lazy writing, but it's a tad better than making a blatant reference to Don Quixote. Then again, I don't think "Eight for Aduba-3" was ever meant to be taken seriously, so I don't really mind.)
darklordoftech said:
No matter what Luke's ROTJ clothing was or wasn't meant to be, what Obi-Wan wears in Star Wars (1977) definitely wasn't meant to be a Jedi uniform. What Obi-Wan wears in Star Wars (1977) isn't what commoners across the galaxy wear, it's just what Tatooine moisture farmers wear. Look at the commoners on other planets if you don't believe me.
Well, here's what a moisture farmer on Aduba 3 looked like in a comic from late 1977:
Now I realize that these comics have a somewhat dubious canon, but it goes to show just what SW lore was as early as in 1977. This was also the only character I could find a proper picture of, but the other Aduba-3 farmer pretty much wear the same outfit as Owen Lars did.
Also, here's what the old Jedi knight Don-Wan Kihotay (terrible name btw) looked like in the same comic:
It's kind of cheap, and lazy. Or perhaps this is what Lucas always intended it to be, I don't know. But it's not exactly like Abrams is screwing over the lore by giving Luke a Ben Kenobi-style robe rather than a black uniform. You can really stretch the lore any way you want with this, and the new Luke outfit is consistent with what we have seen in both trilogies so far, as well as some of the EU.
I'm personally just going to go with it. The black outfit would have been cool, but the new white one works just as fine. I think anyway.
Akton said:
ZkinandBonez said:
Also people tend to forget that Luke's black outfit in ROTJ was supposed to represent his brush with the dark side. Of course him actually tuning evil was eventually written out, but Luke did have his dark side moment while fighting Vader in the end.
As far as the lore is concerned I can't remember having ever read that it was supposed to be an actual Jedi outfit. I'm pretty sure it was just something he put together before meeting Jabba (even the pre-PT EU added a practical explanation for the outfit.)
And of course when we see Anakin (Sebastian Shaw) at the end of ROTJ he's wearing the same moisture farmer outfit that Obi-Wan wore in ANH. Not to mention that Yoda more or less wears the same outfit. I don't actually now if this is a pre- or post-PT thing, but the reasoning behind the Jedi both in the OT and PT wearing moisture farmer outfits, or rather just a casual outfit common among colonists and farmers, were because they were supposed to be ascetics; monks more or less. Hence the humble outfits.
And Lucas was quite adamant back in the pre-PT days that the Jedi order was basically just warrior Buddhist monks, even comparing them to Yogis once.I certainly took Luke's ROTJ outfit as a "Jedi uniform," and, given the context of the film, it seems were were meant to. Yes, he resembles Vader, and there is thematic significance to that. But I always saw the primary, in-universe reason for that similarity being the simple fact that Vader was once a Jedi too; thus he continued to dress more or less like a Jedi, and continued to carry and use what Palpy disparagingly referred to as "a Jedi's weapon." I mean, why else would Luke make his first public appearance as a Jedi (that's how he introduced himself to Jabba) dressed in such a strikingly distinctive uniform? The fact that the outfit strongly resembles a priest's cassock also cemented the idea (in my mind at least) that this was indeed a "Jedi uniform."
As to Anakin's ghost wearing Tatooinian robes - well, Anakin was a Tatooinian. So, there's that.
Yoda's garb was fairly different from Anakin / Obi-Wan's - much more generic hobo / hermit clothing - very rudimentary. Also, I'm of the opinion that Yoda - being a Jedi master (not a Jedi Knight) - would not have worn the militaristic uniform of a Jedi Knight, nor would he have ever carried a lightsaber. That was also Lucas' opinion back in the OT days, as evidenced by the Rinzler books.
Well, the EU certainly seems to have agreed with your militaristic uniform idea:
The Dark Horse comics of the early 90's seems to have interpreted Darth Vader's outfit, minus the robotic parts, as having been a Jedi uniform.
However the Jedis couldn't exactly have walked around in full armour all the time, and who knows what they were originally supposed to have worn. Also I'm not sure if I buy the whole thing about Anakin having been born on Tatooine, hence the outfit on his ghost. Even the PT had the Jedi's wear different uniforms, and even express different ideologies through clothing, so I don't see why the pre-PT lore couldn't have gone for a similar thing.
Also it kind of makes sense for the not-quite-a-Jedi-yet Luke, and Darth Vader to wear black uniforms, while the Jedi masters; Yoda and Obi-Wan wears simple garbs. Anakin of course turning to the good side towards the end could also explain why he's wearing a ascetic outfit as a spirit. And of course by the time of TFA Luke would have become a master, so it only makes sense he's be out of his black uniform. He's also, according to the rumours, hiding on some planet in deep meditation, trying hide is destructive force powers form the world around him. That's quite an ascetic thing to do, and far away from the brash, close to turning to the dark-side young farm-boy from the OT. All the OT film had Luke gradually mature from a cocky and adventurous farm-boy to a more mature, and conflicted Jedi knight. It only makes sense that he 30 years later would have more of a Jedi master vibe to him. Abrams even pointed out that a lot of the film would focus on the question; "who is Luke Skywalker," and this is a very logical next step in his character development.
Also people tend to forget that Luke's black outfit in ROTJ was supposed to represent his brush with the dark side. Of course him actually tuning evil was eventually written out, but Luke did have his dark side moment while fighting Vader in the end.
As far as the lore is concerned I can't remember having ever read that it was supposed to be an actual Jedi outfit. I'm pretty sure it was just something he put together before meeting Jabba (even the pre-PT EU added a practical explanation for the outfit.)
And of course when we see Anakin (Sebastian Shaw) at the end of ROTJ he's wearing the same moisture farmer outfit that Obi-Wan wore in ANH. Not to mention that Yoda more or less wears the same outfit. I don't actually now if this is a pre- or post-PT thing, but the reasoning behind the Jedi both in the OT and PT wearing moisture farmer outfits, or rather just a casual outfit common among colonists and farmers, were because they were supposed to be ascetics; monks more or less. Hence the humble outfits.
And Lucas was quite adamant back in the pre-PT days that the Jedi order was basically just warrior Buddhist monks, even comparing them to Yogis once.
cap10 said:
Kinda looks like the scavenged head of an AT-DP , a concept walker from the Rebels TV show, as if it was hollowed out and used as a helmet!
Makes sense with all the wreckage left over from the Battle of Jakku.
(The design is also a fair bit older than the Rebels TV show. Apparently it's taken from the original concept drawing of the AT-ST's in ESB.)
darklordoftech said:
ZkinandBonez said:
unamochilla2 said:
ZkinandBonez said:
unamochilla2 said:
rpvee said:
So is "Ren" the new "Sith"? I hope that wasn't to avoid using the term Sith, since the name did exist long before the prequels.
Hm...
Kylo Ren isn't his real name, but rather a title. He also isn’t a Sith. He’s a member of an organization known as “The Knights Of Ren" and he is allied with the First Order. Also, his lightsaber isn't a relic - it is something he put together himself.
While the term "Sith" did exist before the PT, I don't believe it was formally used in the OT. It seems like TFA is going back to the roots of the series.
Although the word Sith was never specifically used in the actual moved, it was a part of the official canon back when they were making the movies.
"Two metres tall. Bipedal. Flowing black robes trailing from the figure and a face forever masked by a functional if bizarre black metal breath screen - a Dark Lord of the Sith was an awesome, threatening shape as it strode through the corridors of the rebel ship."
- p. 11 of the SW novelization from 1976.
"Towering above them in his black cloak and concealing black headgear, Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, entered the main control deck, and the men around him fell silent."
- p. 42 of the ESB novelization from 1980.
"...and finally Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith, emerged from the void."
- p. 4 of the ROTJ novelization in 1983.This is how Vader was introduced in all of the three original novelizations. Always a variation of the same phrase; "Dark Lord of the Sith."
Did the novels ever go into any detail about the Sith?
Not that I can remember, and frankly I'm too lazy to re-read the three novels again just to find out.
I literally just scanned the first chapters, looking for the word Sith, and wrote them down. It's been a few years since I read them.
However, from what I remember, the answer is no, I can only remember the term being used in relation to Vader and his "dark" ways. The ESB book definitely gave Vader some very dramatic descriptions, always describing him as a "Dark Lord" and even making a reference to him trying to steal Luke's soul during their fight on Bespin.
However scanning through the end of the ROTJ novel I can't find any references to Palpatine being a Sith. He is however referred to as "the evil one," and the novel gives him some pretty funky descriptions, such as; "his dark majesty," talking about his "wizardry," and describing his face as having "death's grin" and being "lined by holocaust." So the book is definitely trying to sell the character as a sort of tyrannical evil wizard.When the OT movies and their novelizations were released, I figured that "the Sith" was Vader's Stormtrooper legion, and that Vader, being this legion's leader, was its "Dark Lord." Just like a "Grand Moff" was an Imperial Governor, a "Dark Lord" was an Imperial General. I definitely wasn't expecting "the Sith" to be a two-man dark jedi space illuminati organization who's members backstab each other for no reason. I thought that Vader and The Emperor being the only dark side users was because they weren't part of any order of Force-users, not because of some Rule of Two. I thought that Vader and The Emperor plotting against each other was just because of their personalities, not because of some ancient tradition.
Here's hoping that the Knights of Ren don't backstab each other.
I'm pretty sure that the whole Sith thing was something that Lucas had planned from the beginning. Sure, the whole "rule of two" thing is something he added in the PT, but the term Sith always referred to an evil version of the Jedi order. Heck even the rough draft of the ANH script had several members of the "Knights of the Sith" in it. What's interesting is that the way the Sith were described in the rough draft was actually more similar to the Knights of Ren. Not so much evil, but affiliated with the Empire.
However the OT and the novelizations put a lot of emphasis on the whole Dark Lord thing, and Palpatine being pure evil. Heck just look at (and listen to) his death in ROTJ, it's something you'd expect from Sauron in LOTR. I think the Sith were always meant to be sort of evil wizard cultists.
The thing that I find weird however, that is when taking the EU into account, is how little both Vader and even to some degree Palpatine act as Sith. They're more like Dark Jedi's; hording power for themselves and refusing to join any group other than their own. So Palpatine is more of a disobedient Sith, he follows their evil and mystical ways, but refuses to share it with anyone else, and is quite the backstabber. He's hardly a Sith Knight, or part of any cult, yet he does embody everything about it.
Tobar said:
Teebo? There's already a well established Teebo!
I already gave you Kylo Ren. Stop robbing from long neglected cartoons!
The name Teebo did actually appear in the credits for ROTJ; http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Teebo/Canon
It is of course possible that the new Teebo is never actually mentioned by name in the film, similarly to Bobbajo.
DuracellEnergizer said:
ZkinandBonez said:
At least we now know that this isn't a droid. It seems like some kind of armoured lizard creature, kind of similar to a Dewback.
The guy riding it also looks kind of familiar, have we seen him before in any production images? Or did he exist in the SW universe before TFA?Looks similar to those gas mask-wearing aliens from the Mos Eisley cantina:
That's it, I thought he looked familiar.
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/12/star-wars-force-awakens-character-names/2
The alien is apparently named Teebo (played by Kian Shah), and the creature is called a "luggabeast."
unamochilla2 said:
ZkinandBonez said:
unamochilla2 said:
rpvee said:
So is "Ren" the new "Sith"? I hope that wasn't to avoid using the term Sith, since the name did exist long before the prequels.
Hm...
Kylo Ren isn't his real name, but rather a title. He also isn’t a Sith. He’s a member of an organization known as “The Knights Of Ren" and he is allied with the First Order. Also, his lightsaber isn't a relic - it is something he put together himself.
While the term "Sith" did exist before the PT, I don't believe it was formally used in the OT. It seems like TFA is going back to the roots of the series.
Although the word Sith was never specifically used in the actual moved, it was a part of the official canon back when they were making the movies.
"Two metres tall. Bipedal. Flowing black robes trailing from the figure and a face forever masked by a functional if bizarre black metal breath screen - a Dark Lord of the Sith was an awesome, threatening shape as it strode through the corridors of the rebel ship."
- p. 11 of the SW novelization from 1976.
"Towering above them in his black cloak and concealing black headgear, Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, entered the main control deck, and the men around him fell silent."
- p. 42 of the ESB novelization from 1980.
"...and finally Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith, emerged from the void."
- p. 4 of the ROTJ novelization in 1983.This is how Vader was introduced in all of the three original novelizations. Always a variation of the same phrase; "Dark Lord of the Sith."
Did the novels ever go into any detail about the Sith?
Not that I can remember, and frankly I'm too lazy to re-read the three novels again just to find out.
I literally just scanned the first chapters, looking for the word Sith, and wrote them down. It's been a few years since I read them.
However, from what I remember, the answer is no, I can only remember the term being used in relation to Vader and his "dark" ways. The ESB book definitely gave Vader some very dramatic descriptions, always describing him as a "Dark Lord" and even making a reference to him trying to steal Luke's soul during their fight on Bespin.
However scanning through the end of the ROTJ novel I can't find any references to Palpatine being a Sith. He is however referred to as "the evil one," and the novel gives him some pretty funky descriptions, such as; "his dark majesty," talking about his "wizardry," and describing his face as having "death's grin" and being "lined by holocaust." So the book is definitely trying to sell the character as a sort of tyrannical evil wizard.
unamochilla2 said:
rpvee said:
So is "Ren" the new "Sith"? I hope that wasn't to avoid using the term Sith, since the name did exist long before the prequels.
Hm...
Kylo Ren isn't his real name, but rather a title. He also isn’t a Sith. He’s a member of an organization known as “The Knights Of Ren" and he is allied with the First Order. Also, his lightsaber isn't a relic - it is something he put together himself.
While the term "Sith" did exist before the PT, I don't believe it was formally used in the OT. It seems like TFA is going back to the roots of the series.
Although the word Sith was never specifically used in the actual moved, it was a part of the official canon back when they were making the movies.
"Two metres tall. Bipedal. Flowing black robes trailing from the figure and a face forever masked by a functional if bizarre black metal breath screen - a Dark Lord of the Sith was an awesome, threatening shape as it strode through the corridors of the rebel ship."
- p. 11 of the SW novelization from 1976.
"Towering above them in his black cloak and concealing black headgear, Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, entered the main control deck, and the men around him fell silent."
- p. 42 of the ESB novelization from 1980.
"...and finally Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith, emerged from the void."
- p. 4 of the ROTJ novelization in 1983.
This is how Vader was introduced in all of the three original novelizations. Always a variation of the same phrase; "Dark Lord of the Sith."
ZkinandBonez said:
Anyway; anyone have a thought on this?
It looks like it's the same object, and in the Look and Find picture it looks like some kind of large droid dog.
At least we now know that this isn't a droid. It seems like some kind of armoured lizard creature, kind of similar to a Dewback.
The guy riding it also looks kind of familiar, have we seen him before in any production images? Or did he exist in the SW universe before TFA?
Am I the only one who thinks that the guy standing up front looks like general Hux? He seems to have the same reddish hair colour and he's wearing the same jacket. The ears also look kind of similar.
Also, as have been pointed out before, the First Order seems to be much more diverse than the Empire was. I assume that the person with the metal helmet is Phasma, which we already know is a woman. And on her right, standing in the back is a black man dressed in the same outfit. That's quite a big change from the all white British-talking males of the Empire in the OT. I assume this is something they borrowed from the EU which also had the Empire turn more diverse after the events of ROTJ.
A TFA Lego product list slated for a December release might possibly have revealed the name of one of the new planets that will appear in the film; Takodana.
http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/08/leaked-2016-lego-product-list-leak-confirms-planet-name.html
Also, I can't remember having seen this picture on this thread before, so I'll just post it here now:
ray_afraid said:
I agree with everything ZkinandBonez said.
I actually like most of the designs in TPM!
I've always kind of liked TPM despite it's flaws because it's the only PT film that actually feels like a bad Star Wars movie. I prefer my bad SW movies to at least look like they are SW movies. Episode II and III just didn't feel like SW to me.
However, one of my least favourite designs in the entire PT trilogy is Dexter's Diner. It looks like something that belongs in an episode of Futurama.
This droid looks like it belongs in an episode of the Jetsons.
I'm also not a fan of the 50's and 60's retro vibe. It's just to obvious to me. It's a design that I think would have been very funny in a different Sci-Fi film, but it feels very out of place in a SW film I think. It's a bit too obvious.
