ZkinandBonez

John Doom said:

ZkinandBonez said:

I don't see why all four reasons can't apply to Anakin's fall. Politics and Power are basically the same in this situation. Love is possible, but that seems to have been added for dramatic effect in the PT, but then again we don't know what they were planning back then. But considering how Luke and Leia's mother survived Anakin's transformation for some years it seems unlikely. Also I'm not quite sure what you mean by "defeat"? Do you mean his battle with Obi-Wan, because that still counts in the pre-PT canon. It's described in both the novelization of ROTJ and the Guide. Also his wounding serves as a metaphor for his transformation. First of all he becomes someone else physically. The in a sense dies and sells his soul to the devil, or in this case the evil Palpatine, and is resurrected but with a catch; he's now a slave to the emperor. He actually dies when he redeems himself and kills the emperor. He has already died as a good man, and therefore can't have a second life. Also the Empire is clearly a very homogeneous environment, as fascism tends to be, as well as being quite a literal war machine. And that is what Vader is as well, a killing machine. "He's more machine than man now, twisted and evil," that line is actually a pretty good description of the Empire as a whole, or even fascism in general. 
(But enough symbolic analysis/rambling.) 

I couldn't find an age on Bail Organa, but I get the idea that he was supposed to be a lot older than he ended up being in the PT. 
It's not the greatest source, but in the 1980 radio-play of ANH there's a lot of scenes with Bail and he comes of as kind of an old king type of character. It's hard to describe, but I got a sort of Ling Theoden from LOTR vibe from the performance. That's not much to go on, but I think he was supposed to be a somewhat old man.
Mon Mothma's age is kind of weird in the timeline, but not impossible. In ROTJ she would be roughly 50 years old. However she could have been a very young senator. The Guide said that she was the youngest senator ever elected until Leia started representing Alderaan some year prior to ANH. It doesn't give a precise age though, it simply states she was elected at an "early age."

I looked up the Sith and this is literally all it said;
"The mysterious and as-yet-revealed group called the Sith causes great fear in those who know them. They are sometimes called the Dark Lords of the Sith, and Darth Vader has been identified as one of their number."
Literally no help to unravel the mystery there. Either Lucas had no clue what they were, or he was keeping it a secret until the PT-trilogy.

Also I couldn't find any mention of Vader's Castle. Does it have a specific name? I found an entry on the Emperor Citadel, but no castle with Vader's name attached. The again I might have overlook something under a different name.

Well yeah, it could be that he turned into the darkside for four reasons. By "defeat" I mean that, as Lucas suggested in the commentaries, he faced the Emperor, but was defeated, losing most of his Force (basically, Luke's path went wrong). And maybe he was then brainwashed by the Emperor (just my guess). Fact is that this interpretation makes Anakin's fall against his will. The OT's dialogues seem confirm that this was Anakin's fate.

I can't believe the word "sith", used everywhere on books and comics, was never explained! :D I'd go for the jedi-hunter order, but I can't prove it :\

I'm not sure Vader's castle had a name back then. It was mentioned in an early ESB draft, but the idea was probably rejected.

Thank you very much for the help! :)

Sure, no problem. 
Again, if you remember something important just ask and I'll look it up. Right now however I just can't think of anything specific to look up that would help any further.
I'm really enjoying this, it's such a rare thing to be able to look this up without getting the PT retcons in the way. I've tried Wookieepedia, but it's hopeless to try to siphon out of the post-1999 additions. I do feel like I should get a hold of the 1984 edition at some point so that I can figure out what they added to it in the early 90's.

As for the Anakin/Vader thing. I really feel like the "defeat" would have come after he game himself up to the Emperor ideologically (both politically and in terms of the Force.) Since the pre-PT canon seems to suggest that he was turned to the dark side for quite some time before he became half-robot, it would make more sense, to me at least, that his relationship with Palpatine only became worse and worse as time went by, and that his symbolic death kind of cemented it. Even in the OT Vader seems to believe in both the dark side and the New Order/Empire despite hating the Emperor. So it would seem that he willingly gave himself over to him as his apprentice, but that he gradually become more and more dependent on him, leading to a point were he was practically a servant to him. I agree that Vader is definitely a tragic figure, but it seems strange that all this happened through some defeat. They talk about him having been "seduced" by the dark side, and the Guide talks about Anakin's power ambitions. But of course as the OT dialogue suggest this ambition comes at a terrible price.

Also I realize that Dark Empire doesn't have any canonical authority over the pre-PT storyline, but I do like their interpretation of the Vader-Palpatine relationship. In the story Luke gives himself over to Palpatine thinking it is the best solution to his problems, and thinking that he will maintain some level of autonomy and power, but he eventually becomes consumed by his evil and turns into a reluctant servant.
In any case it is clear that Palpatine's powers of suggestion range from both the psychological to the supernatural.
Palpatine's Dark Side Compendium is a pretty interesting pre-PT concept. It doesn't hold much authority on this subject matter though, it it is in my opinion a great interpretation of the character and the implied ideology of the New Order. 
(It is mentioned in the Guide though, but it's probably an addition in the 90's edition.)

John Doom said:

Anakin being a teenager when he met Obi-wan seems to fit with my timeline (which I guess is good :D)
Still, if Oragan met during the Clone Wars Obi-wan, why would Leia call him "Ben" knowing his original name? I guess she didn't want to let people know about his secret.
Mon Mothma's background seems to fit perfectly in ROTS's deleted scenes, but she was a senator during Palpatine's rise to power, so how old Palpatine really is? Senators are supposed to be at least 50 years old to be elected, not to mention that Mothma doesn't look the same age as Palpatine at all :D
Anakin's fall has always been the most confusing part: Lucas himself gave FOUR different versions of it: politics (just like you said), power (like in the original ROTS's screenplay), love (as in ROTS) and defeat (as in the 97SE commentary). I don't know :D The OT's dialogues suggest the last interpretation, though, and no doubt he tried to kill Palpatine to save the Republic.
I'll look for COMPNOR, thanks ;)

How old is Organa supposed to be in ANH?
So, no clue as to why and when the Clone Wars began?
What the hell is a Sith? :D (one of the first Star Wars screenplays says it's an order founded to kill the Jedi, is it canon?)
Out of curiosity, is Darth vader's castle ever mentioned?
And that's it: if we manage to get these informations, it should be possible to complete the timeline (except for Palpatine's election's date)!

P.S.: Speaking about fascism, a reform has just passed which abolishes our Italian Senate and gathers power in the Prime Minister (nevermind, I didn't say anything...)

I don't see why all four reasons can't apply to Anakin's fall. Politics and Power are basically the same in this situation. Love is possible, but that seems to have been added for dramatic effect in the PT, but then again we don't know what they were planning back then. But considering how Luke and Leia's mother survived Anakin's transformation for some years it seems unlikely. Also I'm not quite sure what you mean by "defeat"? Do you mean his battle with Obi-Wan, because that still counts in the pre-PT canon. It's described in both the novelization of ROTJ and the Guide. Also his wounding serves as a metaphor for his transformation. First of all he becomes someone else physically. The in a sense dies and sells his soul to the devil, or in this case the evil Palpatine, and is resurrected but with a catch; he's now a slave to the emperor. He actually dies when he redeems himself and kills the emperor. He has already died as a good man, and therefore can't have a second life. Also the Empire is clearly a very homogeneous environment, as fascism tends to be, as well as being quite a literal war machine. And that is what Vader is as well, a killing machine. "He's more machine than man now, twisted and evil," that line is actually a pretty good description of the Empire as a whole, or even fascism in general. 
(But enough symbolic analysis/rambling.) 

I couldn't find an age on Bail Organa, but I get the idea that he was supposed to be a lot older than he ended up being in the PT. 
It's not the greatest source, but in the 1980 radio-play of ANH there's a lot of scenes with Bail and he comes of as kind of an old king type of character. It's hard to describe, but I got a sort of Ling Theoden from LOTR vibe from the performance. That's not much to go on, but I think he was supposed to be a somewhat old man.
Mon Mothma's age is kind of weird in the timeline, but not impossible. In ROTJ she would be roughly 50 years old. However she could have been a very young senator. The Guide said that she was the youngest senator ever elected until Leia started representing Alderaan some year prior to ANH. It doesn't give a precise age though, it simply states she was elected at an "early age."
(EDIT: this last part about her age was part of the EU section of her entry. But then again, it fits with the official timeline, and Leia's unusual young age for a senator in ANH, so technically it just means that the EU had to give a logical explanation for Lucas' timeline.) 

I looked up the Sith and this is literally all it said;
"The mysterious and as-yet-revealed group called the Sith causes great fear in those who know them. They are sometimes called the Dark Lords of the Sith, and Darth Vader has been identified as one of their number."
Literally no help to unravel the mystery there. Either Lucas had no clue what they were, or he was keeping it a secret until the PT-trilogy.

Also I couldn't find any mention of Vader's Castle. Does it have a specific name? I found an entry on the Emperor Citadel, but no castle with Vader's name attached. The again I might have overlook something under a different name.

Darth Id said:

Wow, Z&B, thanks for all that.

I'm frankly astounded that the 1984 Guide dates the formation of the Empire to only 18Y BBY.  I really can't fathom a sensible reason why this would be, except that Lucasfilm figures Darth's turn must have coincided with its formation so that he could be good before and evil after.  However, it would make a lot MORE sense if he became evil while the Empire was in full swing--after all, wouldn't that be when going dark would be the "easier, quicker path," i.e., the path of least resistance?  Seems that to turn evil in a just Republic and to then go on to participate in the transformation of the Republic is more ambitious and driven than it is "quicker and easier".

Yet if the "Republic falls" some indeterminate time before the "Empire forms", I suppose that means there was some intervening period of the "New Order"?  I guess that some proto-Empire fascist order might serve as a good political milieu in which it would be personally expedient for Little Orphan Ani to break bad.   

That's kind of what I gathered from the Guide as well. That Palpatine's initial rise to power resulted in the New Order as a more militant and fascist political party which after some time eventually led to the formation of an Empire. Since Palpatine was young when he was elected president, and even resisted by Mon Mothma it is likely that this is when he started expressing his goals for a New Order. All of this alludes really well to the Nazi's in real-life. Corruption and poverty; A charismatic new leader steps in promising a "new world" or rather a "new order" to replace the old; And eventually it turns out that this guy is actually plotting to take over the world and rule it as a dictator. Palpatine's evil here is show through him being a darksider, he's literally a being of evil powers. (The novelization of ROTJ really emphasizes this to the extreme.)
Heck the Clone Wars could even be an allusion to WWII, except in this case the bad guys eventually won.

What's interesting is that if you read up on COMPNOR you'll keep seeing the name New Order pop up constantly (heck it even stands for Commission for the Preservation of the New Order) so I guess that it's the empire's official name, while the Galactic Empire is more of a description of what the New Order is/has become.

(As a side note it's interesting how the Empire remnants in TFA is called the First Order. It's an interesting throwback to the original SW canon and might even suggest a post-empire attitude where they are trying to establish themselves as the true "Order" among several other remnants, which some of the interviews have suggested that there are. I wonder is this is Abrams just being a fanboy or if it is Kasdan bringing back some of his original ideas.)

John Doom said:

Well, the idea is to start from the OT dialogues and then expand with pre-PT EU canon stuff, as long as it fits. After all, even if Star Wars's canon changed throughout the trilogy, its dialogues present no evident retcon. But it's not an easy task :D

I just noticed that if, according to the Guide, Anakin is 55 in ANH, and the Clone Wars ended 35 years before ANH, how could he've taken part in war being him only 20? :\

Does the Guide mention why and when did Obi-wan change his name to Ben? When did he served the Organas?

It makes no mention of his name, but it does say;
"When the Clone Wars erupted, Kenobi became a general, fighting alongside Bail Organa of Alderaan and the young pilot Anakin Skywalker. Obi-Wan and Anakin became good friends, sharing many adventures as they battled to protect the galaxy. In fact, Kenobi recognized Anakin's natural Force talents and decided to train him to be a Jedi."
The rest is as we've already heard in the film; he wasn't an adequate teacher, Anakin was ambitious, seduced by Palpatine's power, turned evil, etc, etc.
It's interesting however that it suggests that they fought in the Clone Wars before Anakin became his apprentice. So Anakin could have been a teenage pilot whom Obi-Wan gradually took under his wing until he eventually decided to train him as a Jedi. Anakin turning to evil, choosing the easier path, could have to do with him having been targeted by Palpatine very early in his training, hence he was much more vulnerable when it happened.

I also looked up Bail Organa, but it literally says no more than that he fought alongside Obi-Wan and "the other heros of the period," beyond what we know from the films.

Mon Mothma's entry has few vaguely interesting details in it;
It says that she was a senator when Palpatine rose to power, that she was the only person suspicious of his rise to power, and that she even opposed to his election to presidency. It also says that she formed an early version of the Rebel Alliance some time before Palpatine formed the Empire, which to me supports what I mentioned earlier that Palpatine's New Order probably existed for quite a while before Palpatine eventually made himself Emperor. This would suggest that the last years of the Old Republic, not to mention the political environment during the Clone Wars involved a conflict between the more liberal, but corrupted Republic and Palpatine's fascist New Order promising peace and control. 
I kind of like the implications of that. Perhaps the story of Anakin's fall ot the dark side isn't just a matter of him turning to the dark side of the Force, but also the dark side of Politics. It kind of implies him eventually joining the New Order and eventually helping Palpatine's rise to power. This kind of makes sense when you consider his dialogue in the OT. He tries to overthrown Palpatine, and wish to "rule the galaxy" alongside Luke "like father and son." His ideals are clearly militaristic and dictatorial. So it's possible that the original ideas behind Anakin's rise and fall was a lot more blatantly political.

And if you might think that this is a bit to political for something as simple as Star Wars you should look up COMPNOR on Wookieepedia. It's one of the few articles that have very little post-PTA influence is basically taken directly form the guide book, as well as a standalone book about the Empire from the late 80's. It's quite the elaborate description of the political structure and fascist ideals of the New Order/Empire, and it bears heavily similarities to the real-life Nazi party.

Anyway, if there's another character, place, or event that you would like me to look up in the guide, just send me a message and I'll post the answer if there's anything interesting.

John Doom said:

This is very interesting: I'm going to link your post in my timeline, so that everyone can read it.

There are useful hints to build the timeline, but you still have ROTJ's rectons like Owen being Obi-wan's brother (George... :\) and so Obi-wan being only in his 60s (which contradicts Tarkin's statement). I'm not sure it can be actually used, but it's definitely a great read. Thanks a lot!

Well, I don't really think Tarkin's statement can be taken too seriously. It's an off-hand remark by a military man who assumes that at this point all Jedi should have been killed in one way or another. After all the Jedi seem to have been deemed outlaws for at least 35 years or so at this point, and he was probably involved in their destruction himself. It could also be a bit of arrogance on Tarkin's part. He clearly has a lot of faith in the Emperor and his ways, (not the mention Vader; who's risky plan does end up getting Tarkin killed).

Also, I don't think you can really use ANH as some sort of SW canon bible as the entire OT was being retconned as they were being made. ANH was originally only supposed to be a stand-alone film, and Anakin and Vader were definitely intended to be two different characters. Heck they even considered making 'Splinter in the Minds Eye' a low-budget sequel to ANH at some point. 
So I personally would stick to finding a consistent post OT, pre-PT canon. That's not to say that Owen Lars being Obi-Wan's brother makes perfect sense, but the question should rather be whether the novelization fits in with pre-PT Lucas and Kasdans 'agreed" anon for the original films. I know that doesn't make this any easier, I'm just saying that the scripts from ANH and ESB aren't that reliable when it comes to a consistent pre-PT canon.

Regardless, I'll look through the book some more to see if I find any more interesting details. Regardless of how reliable they are, they do offer a pretty interesting pre-PT EU canon.

John Doom said:

There's a pre-SE Star Wars reference book called A Guide to the Star Wars Universe. It was published in 1984 and even talks about the Clone Wars. Should we trust its content for the timeline, if necessary?

Well, I actually have that book (or rather the 1994 update, but 95% of the text is the same EDIT: It's actually closer to half the book, but the old entries doesn't seem to have been changed. Rather they added entries about newer novels and comics.) and it has some pretty interesting entries, especially relating to the Emperor which more or less fits with the idea that the Republic disappeared much earlier than previously assumed.

Here's the entry on Palaptine describing his life prior to the events of the films:
"The Emperor ruled the galaxy as the malevolent dictator of the Empire. As the man named Palpatine, he carved his Empire from the dying corpse of the Old Republic, using guile, fraud, astute political manipulations, and the dark side of the Force to forge his New Order.
As a Senator in the Old Republic, Palpatine was an unassuming man at a time of widespread corruption and social injustice. The massive bureaucracy of the Republic had grown twisted and sickly over the span of generations. Like an immense tree with decaying roots, the Republic appeared strong but was slowly dying from within. To appease the member worlds who saw the galactic government as nothing more than a useless burden, the Senate offered up a promising young politician who seemed perfect for keeping the union together. Senator Palpatine appeared to lack drive and ambition, for he had remained apart from the political corruption that racked the Senate. Those who needed a stable government in place to continue their plundering believed they could use Palpatine as a figurehead, teaching him to smile obediently for the holomedia. Those who genuinely wanted to save the Republic saw him as a compromise candidate who could serve as a puppet leader, following and implementing their plans to repair the system. Palpatine, however, had his own plans.
Palpatine exceeded everyone's expectations after he was elected as head of the Senatorial Council and President of the Republic. He got the wheels of government turning again after long periods of inactivity. He stepped forward as a great leader who inspired trust and commitment. During the time of jubilation, promise, and hope that followed Palpatine's election, he slowly introduced the New Order and declared himself Emperor. The brief period of hope and light quickly turned dark as tyranny spread across the galaxy. The Empire was born."
(There's a paragraph about using the Rebellion as an excuse for getting rid of the Imperial Senate, but we already know that from ANH.)
"How the Emperor achieved his mastery of the dark side of the Force remains a mystery lost in the passages of time. Through his dark will, Darth Vader was created, the Jedi Knights were destroyed, the Old Republic was swept away, the Empire was forged, and the greatest military force ever assembled was unleashed upon the galaxy."
(The rest is just stuff from the movies.)

The most obvious deviations from the PT here is the description of of a "young" Palpatine being made President of the Republic shortly before forming the Empire. This at least implies that the Empire, or rather the seeds of the Empire in the form of a political movement called the New Order was formed decades before Luke and Leia, perhaps even Anakin was born.
There's also the reference to the Republic having been corrupt for a long period of time, which again fits with Darth Id's suggestion that Obi-Wan/Ben's descriptions of the Republic as the "guardians of peace and justice" is a description of a "World That Was."
This might also suggest the possibility that the Clone Wars (emphasis on Wars) was actually between The Jedi/Republic and the New Order.

The entry on Darth Vader also has some interesting details, but is for the most part much vaguer that the Palpatine entry:
"Learning to use the Force by Kenobi's methods was too slow for the impatient Anakin. He wanted a quicker, less difficult path to the vast power he sensed all around him. Emperor Palpatine offered him just such a path-the dark side. All Anakin had to do was to give in to his anger, fear, and agression. Ambitious and headstrong, he stepped into the dark side's embrace and became Darth Vader."
(The text does actually mention Anakin/Vader falling into a molten pit like in ROTS, and also makes a vague reference to him hunting down the Jedi Knight during the "last days of the Republic and the opening moments of the Empire.
In addition the entry mentions Ben taking Luke to Tatooine and Leia being taken by her mother to Alderaan.)

These two entries could suggest that Anakin was not just turned to the dark side by Palpatine, but that he also joined the enemy side during a conflict and that he embraced both the philosophy of the dark side, as well as the politics of the New Order. 
The last line might seem like a contradiction to Palpatine's entry, but it does say the opening moment of the "Empire", e.g. The Galactic Empire, and does not exclude the existence of the New Order during these events.

This book also sticks to the idea that Owen Lars was Obi-Wan's brother.
The entry on the Clone Wars imply states that is ended 35 years prior to ANH (see timeline below) and that the "Jedi Knights and their allies battled to defend the Old Republic against its enemies." 
The book also suggests that C-3PO may never have had a memory wipe in the past, hence his odd personality and tendency to exaggerate his retelling of events. I'm not really sure how to interpret this entry, but they seem to hint at his eccentricity, and it's funny compared to how his memory was conveniently wipe in ROTS. And although the book forgot to mention it Lucas had originally (as far back as in 1977) established that C-3PO was built in a Cybot Galactica plant on the planet Affa 112 years before ANH.

Finally, there is a timeline included in the book:

25,000 + BSW4 (e.g. before ANH/Ep.4 or BBY)
The Old Republic, the first galaxy-wide government is formed; Jedi Knights appear; period of galactic peace and expansion begins.

896 BSW4
Yoda is born.

200 BSW4
Chewbacca is born on Kashyyyk.

112 BSW4
C-3PO activated.

60 BSW4
Obi-Wan Kenobi is born.

55 BSW4
Anakin Skywalker is born.

48 BSW4 
Mon Mothma is born on Chandrila.

35 BSW4
The Clone Wars end.

29 BSW4
Han Solo is born in Corellian star system.

Fall of the Republic (no date is given here for some reason)

18 BSW4
Luke and Leia born and placed into hiding. Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader. Jedi Knights hunted an killed. Palpatine becomes Emperor. Empire formed.

DuracellEnergizer said:

brash_stryker said:

the AT-PT

TIE Defender



*sigh* and a TIE Tank

Of those three, the AT-PT's the only one which doesn't look completely laughable. 

Why would anyone even need a tank in the SW universe?
What could it possible offer in a universe of hover vehicles?

Also the TIE Defender doesn't look that bad, and it kicked ass in Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds (a very underrated game I might add.)
Also aren't the TIE wings supposed to be solar panels, or something similar? If so I guess it actually kind of makes sense to pack as many on them as possible.

SilverWook said:

TIE's seem dependent on a base ship intentionally. You don't want anyone defecting to those Rebel scum, not that anyone would.

 
Isn't that pretty much the plot of TFA?

Akton said:

ZkinandBonez said:

joefavs said:

The movies don't really have any choice about which canon to follow, though; they're bound to whatever the Lucasfilm Story Group decides, and they're most definitely going with the prequels. I honestly think it's a case of a subset of fans wildly overestimating Fett's importance, seeing there was still an actor whose character we didn't know anything about, and saying "well, obviously that has to be Boba Fett".

Like I said Kasdan and Abrams aren't going to be allowed to contradict the PT, but that doesn't necessarily meant that they will make any direct, if any, references to it other than what was already acknowledged in the OT.
And because of that Sydow cant be Boba Fett. 

It's actually kind of funny considering how so many people on this forum is almost terrified that the ST will create more universe shrinking like the PT did, while most of the fans on the internet seems desperate to prove all kinds of strange lore connections. 
I personally can't help but think "Why do so many people even want Sydow to play an old Boba Fett?" I mean is that a good thing? It's also so illogical, so why this persistence regardless.

 

Casting Max Von Sydow is not some kind of formal contradiction of the PT; at most, it is (from the PT fanboy's POV) a case of very bad casting. Perhaps he wears some kind of facial prosthesis which makes the fact that he's not a Maori less immediately jarring... and he's lived on (a) desert planet(s) for decades, and so he aged badly; plus he was mauled by a Sarlaac at one point - so there's your in-universe justification right there.

Outside-universe requires no explanation at all other than "he's a great actor and we thought he was right for the role." Could it be taken as a passive swipe at the PT canon on the part of the ST team? Sure, but nothing solid enough for the Corporate Canon Committee to hang their hats on.

As to why his playing Boba Fett is desirable for some of us, that's easy. Boba Fett was a wildly popular peripheral character from the OT who was given an unceremonious chump's death in ROTJ that left many fans feeling cheated. Having an actor of MVS's caliber play the character in TFA nicely fixes all of the problems that hamstrung Boba Fett to begin with: It means he survived what was otherwise the lamest onscreen death of a beloved character; and, assuming he plays a pivotal role in the plot of TFA, it means his importance to the franchise - an importance that exists solely because he was cool-looking and heavily marketed - has been justified by making him important to the actual events of the larger story beyond being a glorified delivery boy / bouncer.

I get why people like Boba Fett, I was a huge fan of Fett as a kid, I still he's a cool character, but I don't really feel that these fans have really though it through when they wish for him to be in TFA. It would end up being a cheap plot twist regardless of anyones SW canon preferences. 

If it weren't for Disney/Lucasfilm I would genuinely be worried about this rumour. It would be like Leonard Nimoy in Abrams 2009 Star Trek reboot; a pointless cameo that's there purely to trick fans into thinking for a short while that it's connected to something that they love nostalgically. It didn't really complement the story, it made little logistical sense, and it simply acknowledged that the film didn't have the guts to be it's own thing. So they simply made a convenient excuse for him to be there. Not to mention the obvious fan service, and fan service very rarely works within the plot of the movie.

All in all, despite liking Boba Fett, I really think it would have been a terrible choice to put him in TFA. Not that I think he will be, and I'm glad that he's most likely not. I just think that a lot of fans are very shortsighted and easily swayed by their nostalgia when they wish for him to make an appearance. 

AntcuFaalb said:

Akton said:

Someone on Reddit expressed his hope that this character name is not some reference to another JJ Abrams film or show. I heartily echo that sentiment.

LOr San Tekka

 Isn't that kind of a stretch?

(I mean, if LST meant something I might believe it, but this might as well have been LOSATE, or RNA.)

joefavs said:

The movies don't really have any choice about which canon to follow, though; they're bound to whatever the Lucasfilm Story Group decides, and they're most definitely going with the prequels. I honestly think it's a case of a subset of fans wildly overestimating Fett's importance, seeing there was still an actor whose character we didn't know anything about, and saying "well, obviously that has to be Boba Fett".

Like I said Kasdan and Abrams aren't going to be allowed to contradict the PT, but that doesn't necessarily meant that they will make any direct, if any, references to it other than what was already acknowledged in the OT.
And because of that Sydow cant be Boba Fett. 

It's actually kind of funny considering how so many people on this forum is almost terrified that the ST will create more universe shrinking like the PT did, while most of the fans on the internet seems desperate to prove all kinds of strange lore connections. 
I personally can't help but think "Why do so many people even want Sydow to play an old Boba Fett?" I mean is that a good thing? It's also so illogical, so why this persistence regardless.

joefavs said:

Uuuuuuuuugh, that damn Boba Fett rumor. That one has always seemed particularly stupid. Von Sydow is decades too old.

Well, that kind of depends on the canon you choose to follow. In the old EU he was roughly 40 or so in ESB and ROTJ, so 30 years later he would be roughly 70-ish in TFA.
Of course it's practically an impossibility that Abrams and Kasdan would have been allowed to contradict the PT, even though they may never directly reference it, so I agree that it's really silly that everyone keeps expecting Sydow's character to be Boba Fett.

My guess is that many fans just really want this film to contradict the PT, just like a lot of fans seems desperate to have it acknowledge the PT; hence this stupid Snoke is Darth Plagueis rumour.

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but the second wave of Black Series toys have revealed a few new design details; the most interesting (to me at least) is the reveal of the red guys we saw running down the hallway in the Comic-Con BTS reel. They're apparently called: Guavian enforcers.

http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/09/star-wars-the-force-awakens-black-series-wave-2-spotted-on-ebay-first-look-at-tfa-6%E2%80%B3-tie-fighter-packaging.html

Anchorhead said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Some interesting tidbits here about the TFA supportive characters;
http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/09/new-official-databank-entries-for-characters-and-places-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens.html

It doesn't give much important new info however; except that the "Unkar's thugs" previously mentioned works for a junk dealer called Unkar Plutt, and that the Kanjiklub gang lead by Tasu Leech is apparently an "intergalactic criminal organization."

 This seems different than the trailers have led us to believe:

"BB-8 is the spherical, loyal Astromech Droid of the Resistance pilot Poe Dameron."

That's hardly news though?
We've know for quite a while now that Rey buys BB-8 on Jakku from another scavenger (called Leedo), and that Poe owned it first.
I can't remember if they mention this in an interview or a panel or something like that, but the lego set that was revealed some time ago definitively revealed that BB-8 belonged to Poe. 

Some interesting tidbits here about the TFA supportive characters;
http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/09/new-official-databank-entries-for-characters-and-places-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens.html

It doesn't give much important new info however; except that the "Unkar's thugs" previously mentioned works for a junk dealer called Unkar Plutt, and that the Kanjiklub gang lead by Tasu Leech is apparently an "intergalactic criminal organization."

pablumatic said:

And Luke is apparently the "last Jedi" 30+ years after RotJ. 

Exactly what have our heroes been doing since defeating the Emperor and Vader anyway?

Luke must have been sitting out sulking somewhere by his lonesome all this time. The Rebels still can't manage to stamp out the Empire.

There better be some good explanations for all this, but I suspect I won't see them.

Isn't "Jedi" a plural as well as a singular?

(Edit: I googled it and most people seem to agree that it's "Jedi", not "Jedis" when talking about more than one Jedi knight.)
 

Some new TFA products/toys have revealed a few new names;
http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/08/more-interesting-toys-for-force-friday-including-bullhead-and-sarco-plank.html
http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/08/star-wars-the-force-awakens-coloring-book-reveals-two-new-characters.html

This guy is apparently names Sarco Plank

And then there's these two;

poita said:

For anyone that would like to see some more of the 16mm THX:

https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads/3ba0ed5b4898a4bd62093b1adcd05c6c20150830045451/d8fcd8d75941a69340e149c1e80f13fe20150830045451/3d87ac

Wow, this is actually the first time I've seen the entire film in its unaltered state. It's held up incredibly well.
(And is surprisingly view-able without any sound.)

Also what version of the film is this?
I haven't visited this thread in a couple of months, and last time I checked the scene where SEN talks with the children was partially in black-and-white.
This version also didn't have the Things to Come / Buck Rogers scene at the beginning. Wasn't one of these in the theatrical release?  

(Again, I'm sorry if this has already been discussed/explained, but I'm not quite up to speed with the progress of this project.)

Ryan McAvoy said:

ZkinandBonez said:

seeing these two "toys" together is probably one of the weirdest things I've ever seen.
Not to mention the most suggestive.

 Is this your first time on the internet? ;-)

Well it mostly has to do with the fact that they're both licensed toys for two children's movies.

If this was actually something someone on the internet had made I really wouldn't have been that surprised. It's the fact that you could get this in any store that sold toys or candy that really gets to me.

FanFiltration said:

ZkinandBonez said:

As long as they don't release anything THIS gross, I won't complain...too much.

(Seriously though, what the hell were they thinking when they made this? Even as a kid in the 90's I found this thing bizarre. They essentially want you to french-kiss Jar Jar's diseased looking tongue. Ew.)

 Or the E.T. personal pleasure device for ages 4 and up!

You know, seeing these two "toys" together is probably one of the weirdest things I've ever seen.
Not to mention the most suggestive.

The worst part is that now the Jar Jar lollipop kind of makes sense. It's a candy you can eat. A gross looking candy that you can eat, but at least it has a purpose.
What the hell were you supposed to do with the E.T. finger? Seriously? Were you supposed to take part in the cheapest cosplay of all time, or did they just expect you to go around and creepily poke your friends with your wrinkled E.T. finger? Seriously, what was the point (no pun intended) of this toy? It's mind boggling weird.

SilverWook said:

Give them time. I just wonder if they can avoid the merchandising hell Episode One opened up. ;)

As long as they don't release anything THIS gross, I won't complain...too much.

(Seriously though, what the hell were they thinking when they made this? Even as a kid in the 90's I found this thing bizarre. They essentially want you to french-kiss Jar Jar's diseased looking tongue. Ew.)

Possible concept art for the Knights of Ren;
http://indierevolver.com/2015/08/14/indie-revolver-exclusive-possible-images-of-the-knights-of-ren-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens/

I’m also somewhat cautiously optimistic about Trevorrow as director of SW IX.
If Rian Johnson actually ends up writing the scrip then I’m fine with it. But if Trevorrow ends up writing it, then I’m anticipating bad things. But if his writing influence remains on the same level as Abrams’ on TFA, being second to a more competent writer, then I think it can work out pretty well.
Also it’s not like he’s going to have to think up SW from scratch, Kasdan and Abrams will already have defined a new lore, and Johnson will have continued it by that point.

Visually speaking however I’m not really worried at all. Now that Abrams have set a standard with TFA, one which I assume that Johnson will follow, there really isn’t much that Trevorrow can add. Sure, I was very disappointed at all the CGI in Jurassic World, but I’m getting the impression that it wasn’t really up to him, and again Abrams have set a standard in TFA that I doubt he will be able to deviate from. Considering how TFA have already been marketed as a “practical effects film,” and Johnson seems to intend to do the same, it would be weird if Trevorrow would even be allowed to do anything else.
I also don’t think that he’ll shoot the last film in the trilogy digitally, since he after all shot Jurassic World on 65mm and was described in a Kodak interview as a “film convert.” And even if he directs any films digitally in the following years before SW IX, I don’t think Disney will want such a big inconsistency after TFA and SW VIII will have been shot on film. Heck, even Rogue One is beeing shot mostly on film, which is weird since Gareth Edward have so far shot all his films digitally(EDIT: seems like the anthology films will be shot digitally). My guess is that either Disney is trying to keep the films visually consistent, or that Abrams may have had some influence on their decision.

It may sound kind of strange, but I don’t think Trevorrow will have too much of an influence on the making of the film, and therefore I don’t mind him directing it.

Also, isn’t Abrams supposed to be the producer on both SW VIII and IX?

TV's Frink said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Any thoughts on Colin Trevorrow having been confirmed as director of SW IX?

http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/08/disney-d23-star-wars-news-rogue-one-cast-episode-ix-director-confirmed-theme-park-attraction-more.html

 My thoughts are that there's a thread for it.

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-Episode-IX-to-be-directed-by-Colin-Trevorrow/post/785138/#TopicPost785138

Right, never mind then.

joefavs said:

The grammar of that "The evil never ends. Just evolves" tagline makes me want to eat a gun. I'm not terribly sure if how I phrased that even works, but I'm also not making a damn poser.

Good thing it's only a fan poster then. 

Any thoughts on Colin Trevorrow having been confirmed as director of SW IX?

http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/08/disney-d23-star-wars-news-rogue-one-cast-episode-ix-director-confirmed-theme-park-attraction-more.html