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Williarob

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Members
Join date
9-Apr-2007
Last activity
16-Jun-2025
Posts
915
Web Site
http://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com

Post History

Post
#916029
Topic
Team Negative1 - Return of the Jedi 1983 - 35mm Theatrical Version (unfinished project)
Time

Stinky-Dinkins said:

Fuck that, I say we do it Chinese Whispers style. He’ll whisper it to Towne and then it’ll be passed down the line and we’ll just see where the story takes us. I don’t want to be next in line after Frink this time though because the last time we did this instead of whispering into my ear he just kept kissing my cheek and then I had to kiss the guy after me and then way down at the end of the line Catbus ended up blowing Harmy.

I want to be after Catbus this time.

^^ Now this made me laugh! Wish we had a “Like” or “+1” button.

Post
#915825
Topic
Star Wars Trilogy SE bluray color regrade (a WIP)
Time

I think all of this illustrates not only how subjective color grading is, but also that there really is an art to it. Some of Dre’s samples look fantastic, while others less so, and sometimes you can really tell that he’s just been working on a shot for far too long - it clearly looked “right” to him when he posted it, but I bet coming back to it a day later it didn’t look nearly so good.

I have found this myself - playing with the color wheels I can look at a shot and think “that looks good”, but small moves toward green or red or blue may also look just as good, as long as the colors are still natural looking. So while I know how to use Resolve to balance the colors and to tweak them this way and that, and to apply LUTs, I also know that I don’t have the same eye for color that other people have. I must confess that often the little tweaks between posted samples of the same frame are completely lost on me, even if one is right above the other.

Consider Raiders of the Lost Ark on Blu-ray. I watched it and thought it looked great. I didn’t notice any color changes. Now that I have seen the OT thread with the side by side images I can see the difference of course, but I wouldn’t have noticed it otherwise. (Same with Back to the Future. But I did notice the tint applied to the Aliens and The Terminator blu-rays without having to be shown!)

Anyway, I think you are on the right track here - I like how you are all collaborating to find a pleasing result for each shot. So far, all the projects graded by individuals (which includes TN1’s Silver Screen Edition, and Harmy’s projects) have had some shots that looked right, others that looked almost right and a few that just looked wrong.

I look forward to seeing Mike Verta’s final reference shots, then we can all just point Dre’s tool at those, generate a LUT and grade our projects the easy way. Hopefully, given Mike’s level of expertise and the degree of research he put into restoring each shot, his final grade will be as close as we’ll ever get to the original colors. Although I bet we’ll all be able to point to at least one shot (and probably not the same one!) and say that it doesn’t look quite right…

Post
#913340
Topic
Collaborative 35mm restoration proposition
Time

towne32 said:

Well, I think you’ll see from more recent posts that the open/shared aspect is for annotation. But yes, that’s a very difficult thing to do without adjacent frames (a starfield would be impossible).

And certainly for actual cleaning you need surrounding frames. PFclean’s spacial predictions are surprisingly clever, but the real power comes from temporal patching. Plus, as I’m sure you know, having the entire shot allows you apply other tools like deflicker, etc.

Sorry, missed that post. But even so, seeing three consecutive frames at a time may reduce the number of False flags.

Post
#913321
Topic
Collaborative 35mm restoration proposition
Time

Cool idea.

I was just thinking that ideally, each person should get at least three consecutive frames to work on at a time rather than just a single frame. Often there are things that look like dirt on a single frame, and it is only when you go backward and forward that you realize it is actually part of the shot. This will prevent things from disappearing and reappearing. It will also allow people to copy pixels from nearby frames to do a temporal fix rather than just cloning nearby pixels to make a spacial fix.

Post
#911746
Topic
Team Negative1
Time

mverta said:

Hello, everyone -

I have made a video for you, so that you may have all the facts and straight from the horse’s mouth. That goes for you, too, Rob, because you keep geting stuck in the middle and it’s painful to watch. Go and view the video, and let us talk about this no more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkiqQq6KfDY

Additionally, I will be on my usual Ustream live-stream channel for a couple hours or so if you’d like to ask any questions or whatever, at ustream.tv/channel/mike-verta

Thanks everyone!

_Mike

Yep, here I am stuck in the middle again. You see that’s my problem - I always believe the best about people. Perhaps Mike had it right all along:

[6/14/2014 8:25:31 PM] Mike Verta: People suck.

Still, at least it sounds like I made the right decision with regard to not proceeding with the restoration based on this scan.

Post
#911538
Topic
Team Negative1
Time

OK, I’m going to lay it out one last time, and then it is time to leave it alone because it is all getting very tedious and I think we all want to move on with our lives.

Mike’s version:

Early on, I was loaned the “Spanish” print by -1. I didn’t end up using much of it, but I had it scanned at 4K. I was also loaned a “so-so” Tech by Person #2, and a really nice Tech by Person #3. For safety, Person #2 was given digital copies of both his AND Person #3’s scans. Person #2 was, at the time, assumed trustworthy, if for no other reason than self-interest. But then things changed. Person #2 decided to give ALL the scans in his possession to -1. Person #3 rightfully freaked the fuck out - he wanted nothing to do with -1, for all the reasons which should now be clear, but it was too late. Of course, relationships have been severed and damage done.

I am not disputing any of the facts here. Actually, what I have learned over the last week or so supports all of these facts:

-1 loaned Mike the LPP
2 Tech prints were scanned, one belonging to person #2 and one belonging to person #3.
Person #2 decided to give all the scans to -1.

All of that is clearly true. I can prove beyond a doubt that person #2 paid for the scan of the print belonging to person #3 and that while he was planning to give all the scans to -1, he was talked out of giving us the second one, even though that one was based on his own print, because Mike had actually paid for that one. Mike never claims in his statement to have actually paid for either scan, he says he “had” them scanned, as in he arranged for them to be scanned, though I know he did in fact pay for the one we didn’t get.

The rest of it is opinion and hear say. We only have Mike’s word that person #3 freaked out, perhaps he did, I don’t know and I can’t prove it either way. Perhaps Mike’s frantic chat that night was in response to person #3’s freak out. I have been told that is not the case, but that doesn’t make it any more true. But if it was true, wouldn’t person #3 (who members of the team have apparently been in touch with several times both before and since these events) have made a request for us not to use that scan?

Mike told me in a private email:

It costs me around $30k to do a scan. That’s about 15k per exposure pass – although in truth, the Scanity kicks enough ass that one pass is probably sufficient for 90% of scenes – plus about another 3k in drives.

Now, if you were person #2 and you agreed to pay $33,000 for a scan of a film print wouldn’t you feel entitled to do whatever the fuck you liked with it? I know I would.

It is Mike’s opinion that this makes person #2 untrustworthy. It is my opinion that this clearly indicates a lack of communication between person #2 and Mike Verta. It is my opinion that Mike assumed person #2 would keep it to himself and not share it, while person #2 had other ideas. It is my opinion that person #2 could do whatever he likes with something he paid that much money for. The fact that he chose to send the scan to Team Negative One to see what they could do with it does not, in my opinion, make Team Negative One the bad guys in all this. Nor does it make anyone else the bad guy.

This all happened nearly 2 years ago and I wasn’t involved in any of it. I was too new to the team to be privy to such information, and it put me in some embarrassing conversations with Mike Verta on Skype, where he knew we had at least one of the scans, and other members of Team Negative One knew we had it but I did not.

Now I’m not going to say any more about this. Ever.

I don’t think we did anything wrong here and that’s good enough for me. If it isn’t good enough for all of you, oh well.

So let’s put all of this behind us and move on.

I think the ban on the team account should remain, because that user clearly broke a lot of rules despite multiple warnings.

I’d also like to see all of Team Negative One’s project threads locked immediately. He is not coming back and while not all of the threads have yet reached their logical conclusion, they are all many pages long and I will create new threads to continue the projects as necessary.

I think that the Tech scan will be forever tainted by what happened here, and therefore I don’t think we should continue to use it. Instead, we shall try and make a new scan of the same print that Mike cannot lay any claims to and take it from there.

I’d also like to have this thread locked in the next 24-48 hours, after everyone has had a chance to have their final say.

Finally, I want to say that I don’t personally hold any grudges or ill will towards anybody, not Mike Verta, not Frink, not Person #2, not -1 or the other members of the team, not Jay, not the people who brought all this to the attention of the mods. So let’s call it bygones, hope Disney does the right thing and hire’s Mike Verta to at least consult on its official OT release, and in the meantime, keep doing what we love. Tinkering with Star Wars.

Peace.

Post
#911312
Topic
Team Negative1
Time

I stand corrected, it wasn’t a frame or a file posted by Poita that set Mike hunting for him, it was a file name. Here is the original Skype Chat:

[6/14/2014 8:10:37 PM] Mike Verta: Who is David (poita?)
[6/14/2014 8:11:03 PM] Mike Verta: Do you know?
[6/14/2014 8:14:56 PM] Mike Verta: might go by the name poitapoita
[6/14/2014 8:15:02 PM] Mike Verta: on forums, etc.
[6/14/2014 8:16:47 PM] Mike Verta: Found him on OT.com
[6/14/2014 8:17:08 PM] williarob: All I know is that he is very sick, most of the time.
[6/14/2014 8:17:22 PM] williarob: And he lives in Australia
[6/14/2014 8:17:49 PM] Mike Verta: By the most random of coincindences, I saw him asking for help with some DPX files on a forum for reading audio from optical scans of film.
[6/14/2014 8:18:14 PM] Mike Verta: He posted the names of his test frames, and they were my naming convention for one of my scans.
[6/14/2014 8:18:50 PM] williarob: He has his own scanning machine that can make IR scans, bought it on ebay
[6/14/2014 8:19:13 PM] Mike Verta: Yes, but this was a very specific naming convention that couldn’t have happened by coincidence
[6/14/2014 8:20:26 PM] williarob: weird. I don’t have any of your scans, apart from the Greedo sequence, and I don’t know how anyone else could have it. And as I say, he’s in Australia
[6/14/2014 8:20:56 PM] Mike Verta: I know how he could have it, I’m just stunned by the irresponsibility of the person who’s done it.
[6/14/2014 8:24:05 PM] Mike Verta: What’s weird is half of his posts are signed with -Peter
[6/14/2014 8:24:56 PM] williarob: I only know him as Poita. Never spoken to him directly.
[6/14/2014 8:25:25 PM] Mike Verta: Hmmm… unfortunate, however it’s gone down.
[6/14/2014 8:25:31 PM] Mike Verta: People suck.

So once again, Poita I apologize - I misremembered the conversation. But anyway, the point is that THIS is where Mike’s story begins. Since only 2 or three people could have sent out those files, it was this incident that tipped Mike off to the fact that the scans were now in the wild… Also note that at this point in time, I had no idea we were about to receive a copy too.

Post
#911300
Topic
Team Negative1
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

Regardless of the gravity of this individual situation, I think it was the straw that broke the camel’s back for N1. Absurd posts were being made constantly by the team account (and some clearly by negative 1 himself) with no regard for the forum rules. He also constantly ignored his many warnings for posting outside of TN1 threads. That alone (in my opinion of course) was enough for a ban just given how he had no respect for the rules or leeway TN1 was given.

No argument from me here. And if that the mods would like to make that the reason for the ban, I’ll go to bed happy. But I’m still seeking an apology for the accusation that we behaved unethically. Because that is Not true.

Post
#911275
Topic
Team Negative1
Time

poita said:

Williarob said:

poita said:

Williarob said:

poita said:

I never posted a frame from that scan on OT.COM, or its filename.
If you can point to the post, please do.

well maybe Mike just believed you did, I never saw it, it’s just what he told me.

Well please refrain from tarring people with a brush from what you think someone may have thought.

Apologies. But are you suggesting that not everything Mike Verta says is true? (gasp!)

I am saying what you posted about me in the forum is not true.

And I believe you, and I apologized.

Post
#911272
Topic
Team Negative1
Time

Williarob said:

poita said:

Williarob said:

poita said:

I never posted a frame from that scan on OT.COM, or its filename.
If you can point to the post, please do.

well maybe Mike just believed you did, I never saw it, it’s just what he told me.

Well please refrain from tarring people with a brush from what you think someone may have thought.

Williarob said:
We were going to get Mike’s scan as well

So you planning to get Mike’s print as well and use that, it is only a bit of bad luck that stopped it happening, not ethics?

No, we won’t be getting that scan, but we may yet make a scan of that print ourselves.

And besides, we were OFFERED that scan, we didn’t ASK for it.

Post
#911268
Topic
Team Negative1
Time

poita said:

Williarob said:

poita said:

I never posted a frame from that scan on OT.COM, or its filename.
If you can point to the post, please do.

well maybe Mike just believed you did, I never saw it, it’s just what he told me.

Well please refrain from tarring people with a brush from what you think someone may have thought.

Williarob said:
We were going to get Mike’s scan as well

So you planning to get Mike’s print as well and use that, it is only a bit of bad luck that stopped it happening, not ethics?

No, we won’t be getting that scan, but we may yet make a scan of that print ourselves.

Post
#911267
Topic
Team Negative1
Time

poita said:

Williarob said:

poita said:

I never posted a frame from that scan on OT.COM, or its filename.
If you can point to the post, please do.

well maybe Mike just believed you did, I never saw it, it’s just what he told me.

Well please refrain from tarring people with a brush from what you think someone may have thought.

Apologies. But are you suggesting that not everything Mike Verta says is true? (gasp!)

Post
#911261
Topic
Team Negative1
Time

poita said:

I never posted a frame from that scan on OT.COM, or its filename.
If you can point to the post, please do.

well maybe Mike just believed you did, I never saw it, it’s just what he told me. Poita, I’m not accusing you of any wrong doing here. All I know for sure is that I got a crazy Skype call from Mike Verta late one night in 2014 asking if I knew who you were because apparently he had traced a file, posted online back to someone with that name. He didn’t give me a link and it was all very unsettling.

At the time I knew very little about you - just that you often posted on OT, and that you seemed to suffer from ill health and that’s what I told him. Presumably he then skyped or called other people.

Post
#911259
Topic
Team Negative1
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Williarob said:

TV’s Frink said:

Jetrell Fo said:

Thank you williarob for being open and transparent. Thank you to the silent member who offered to help back up and let the facts be presented for all to see. Thanks to neg1 for being willing to take the heat to help save star wars properly.

The facts have been presented for all to see? All I see is a he said / he said situation. Presumably Jay has seen more, but we certainly have not. We’ve seen Mike say one thing and williarob say something else. Nothing more.

If Mike comes out and says he made a mistake, that’s a different story, but that hasn’t happened yet.

But don’t you see? My Story and Mike’s Story are exactly the same. I haven’t denied anything he said as being false or untrue. In fact I’m pretty sure I confirmed that everything he said is true. Mike believed that we had both scans, including the one he paid for, and that doesn’t make his statement untrue, that is what he believed, but as it turns out he was able to contact person #2 before they sent the second scan so we never received it. Go back and re-read Mike’s version of events, and then mine. They are the same story, but from different ends.

I’ll be completely honest here, I’m having trouble following the story. So you are saying you never received the scan he paid for.

That is correct. We were going to get Mike’s scan as well, but then there was all that freaking out that he mentioned (that really happened - Mike Skyped me in a panic asking if I had ever heard of somebody named Poita) and he was able to trace it all back to person #2 who agreed not to send us the other scan (which was the one Mike paid for, and was based on the so-so print owned (at that time) by person #2.)

Does he believe you?

It shouldn’t matter if he believes us or not, Mike can recognize any of the scans by looking at just a few frames. The remaining damage in our preview of Reel 5 contains more than enough frames for Mike to be able to match them to a print and if he does that he will know which print it is, and that it is the print belonging to person #3, which is not the scan he paid for.

The fact that Mike and Person #2 had completely different ideas of what they could do with the scans is not our fault.

But I’ve already been through all that.

The only question we should be addressing here is did the team behave unethically? Let’s see:
Did they steal the print? No.
Did they obtain it without the consent of the person who paid for the scan? No.
Did the owner of the print allow the person who paid for the scan to make that scan? Yes.
Was the print owner aware that it would be used by the person who paid for the scan as well as by Mike Verta? Of course, why the hell else would somebody pay all that money for a scan if he didn’t expect to do something with it?
Was Team Negative One told they could have the scan for reference purposes only? No.
Did the owner of the print contact Team Negative One and ask them not to use it? No.
When asked to stop posting about the print on the off chance that another project might lead to a legitimate release, did they do so? Yes.
Did the members of Team Negative One have their characters tarnished unfairly in a public forum without so much as a warning from the moderators? You bet your ass.

Case Closed.

Post
#911248
Topic
Team Negative1
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Jetrell Fo said:

Thank you williarob for being open and transparent. Thank you to the silent member who offered to help back up and let the facts be presented for all to see. Thanks to neg1 for being willing to take the heat to help save star wars properly.

The facts have been presented for all to see? All I see is a he said / he said situation. Presumably Jay has seen more, but we certainly have not. We’ve seen Mike say one thing and williarob say something else. Nothing more.

If Mike comes out and says he made a mistake, that’s a different story, but that hasn’t happened yet.

But don’t you see? My Story and Mike’s Story are exactly the same. I haven’t denied anything he said as being false or untrue. In fact I’m pretty sure I confirmed that everything he said is true. Mike believed that we had both scans, including the one he paid for, and that doesn’t make his statement untrue, that is what he believed, but as it turns out he was able to contact person #2 before they sent the second scan so we never received it. Go back and re-read Mike’s version of events, and then mine. They are the same story, but from different ends.

Post
#911213
Topic
Team Negative1
Time

As far as I know, only the Team account and the negative One account were banned. I’m not even sure that the other members have accounts here. I don’t think the negative One account will ever be used again (He left years ago) and I don’t think the Team account should be unlocked, because clearly that was a bad idea. But the fact remains, member accounts were locked without so much as a “Dear Member, we have been hearing some bad things about your project, is it true that …?”

Post
#911209
Topic
Team Negative1
Time

adywan said:

Williarob said:

TV’s Frink said:

Have the original emails been sent to Jay?

Yes. He replied:

I’m not sifting through all this; everyone can post their own version and the community can decide who to believe.

So members are getting banned based on the word of a person or persons without the chance to prove they had done no wrong?

yes, that is exactly what happened. Nobody asked me or anyone else on the team for our side of the story, we just showed up here to find that some of us had been banned and had to read this thread to find out why.

Post
#911205
Topic
team negative1 - star wars 1977 - 35mm theatrical version (Released)
Time

Dek Rollins said:

towne32 said:

Sigma957 said:

So this all came about because someone who owns an original print had a scan of it made and someone else has a copy of the scan that person paid for afterward. Yet the one who owns the original print STILL owns an original print. A PHYSICAL print.

It must be a western idea but I really do not see what the problem is here. It’s hard to digitally lay claim to ownership of something without a digital watermark from the beginning. Yeah they paid for it to be scanned but really what were they planning to do with it after it was scanned? Sit on it and pass it on to their children? To do what? Continue to sit on it?

Maybe it’s good I missed all the drama of the past few weeks. Longtime lurker here.

I get that the main point of this post is just to say you’re unaware of what is going on. But yes, you are absolutely unaware of everything that has gone on, why it is important, what the intentions are for the prints and scans in question, and why those involved are concerned about unforeseen distribution of those materials. And I think most of those aspects have been discussed today as well as throughout the weekend, so the answers should be fairly near the surface if you’re looking to be a bit more informed. Writing it off as a western thing would be another option.

What I don’t get about this is that it technically wasn’t TN1’s fault. To be honest, and no disrespect meant, I’d say the whole thing was Mike’s fault, and person 2’s fault afterward. Person 2 should never have had access to person 3’s scan. Why did Mike give it to him/her, regardless of how trustworthy they were? If the purpose was keeping a backup in a different location, I don’t see why being in a different location makes it any safer. Now you just don’t have access to it and can’t protect it. Why didn’t Mike just keep the other backup? Whether it was with him or person 2 shouldn’t matter. Just my thoughts.

Person #2 had a copy because Person #2 actually paid for the scan. Please keep this discussion to the appropriate thread, it doesn’t belong here.

See: http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/911158