Wexter

Mithrandir said:

In any case, even if the PT was tweaked to have ObiWan have two apprentices, that would only reduce the chance of Vader being Anakin to a 50%.

But what if Obi-Wan was

Wexter said:
established as a Jedi Knight who trains other Jedi, not just Anakin/Vader

? The guy trained under the legendary Yoda, you know. He could spread that wisdom around some more. Anakin doesn’t even need to be declared an apprentice of his, just a guy that is around and catches on pretty quick.

Mithrandir said:
If you don’t show Anakin’s death at all, then by ANH there’s the obvious question where is Anakin and why does ObiWan reference something we didn’t see.

Not if the PT was a

Wexter said:
self-contained story that wraps up some time before Anakin becomes Vader, possibly even before the full Republic/Empire transformation.

In OT you don’t really ask where is Mas Amedda or Jar Jar, in TFA you don’t need to know where did Lando and Wedge go, general Dodonna is nowhere to be seen in TESB.

Of course the above suggestions would require a complete rewrite of the prequels, not just an ambitious fanedit. But I really think there is so much wrong with the PT that no edit could possibly make it really good. I think we need a proper PT reboot 😃

Dek Rollins said:

The PT was pretty much just George playing around with his new toys.

That’s an awful way to refer to Rick McCallum!

swagmasta69 said:

[image-only post]

Yes, that looks awful. What’s your point?

“Everything” is the correct answer. I will break it down a bit, however:

1. The characters.
   Terribly written and awfully acted. Mace Windu, Yoda and to a lesser extent Obi-Wan are a bunch of dull monks. Grievous is silly. Palpatine is way over the top. Anakin is less awful to watch than he was in the last movie, but his transformation is handled very poorly. Also: Darth Vader is now a child-killer, yet his mentor and his wife still kinda like the guy.

2. The story.
   Most of the time it feels like George had a checklist of stuff that needs to happen in the PT and only got around to using it by the time he started making the third film. Having said that, the PT doesn’t even tie in to the OT very well and introduces a lot of continuity errors. I also hate how every surviving character (except for Chewbacca) ends up in the exact same place where they are found 20 years later.

3. The little things.
   They had the same actor who portrayed Palpatine in ROTJ. They could have take advantage of that and with some very mild make-up work he could really become a 20 years younger version of the same character. Instead they chose to glue an awful Halloween mask on his face.
   The two lightsaber duels lack any suspence whatsoever. I never found out why the Yoda vs. Palpatine duel was even in the film.

Well at least the vehicles look like they are from the same universe. The same can hardly be said for PT. The location rehash is a fair point, but in time they will hold up much better than PT worlds. The use of bad CGI to create new worlds resulted in effects that looked dated the year after the release and a few years after that pretty much anybody could replicate such effects on a personal computer. On the other hand, lot of the OOT practical effects still looked impressive decades after the release.

Also, art design would include costumes, the general aesthetics etc.

How 'bout no?

Instead, I will suggest you compare the art design of both, as well as characters (both writing and acting). Story-wise both the PT and TFA have a lot of flaws, but when compared in terms of effort, I really tend to root for the team, that actually gave a crap about what they were doing.

obikal said:

Has anyone commented on this or found a way around it?

I can think of two ways:

1. Let PT be a self-contained story that wraps up some time before Anakin becomes Vader, possibly even before the full Republic/Empire transformation. That way Obi-Wan can be established as a Jedi Knight who trains other Jedi, not just Anakin/Vader. Also, if PT Anakin was written well, Vader’s reveal could still be a shock (a dark twist for a beloved character), yet at the same time quite plausible.

2. Let PT tell the story of the fall of the Republic, however keep the focus on a different set of characters. Obi-Wan & Anakin could still appear, but the audience doesn’t follow them closely, so that when Vader appears later in the story, there is no reason to suspect he is in fact Anakin.

I had a strange dream. A prequel fan bashed TFA for supposed lack of effort. Yeah, it was pretty weird…

Well for what is’t worth, Wikipedia, IMDB and starwars.com all refer to the movie by the long title. The shorter version seems to be present mainly on promotional items and ticket stubs…

I thought the official name was indeed “Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens”, only it was marketed with a shorter title.

SilverWook said:
The psychological terror aspect of seeing those things lumbering towards you can’t be overlooked though. And getting close enough to tie a tow cable around the legs isn’t as easy as it looks.

True, but if only the rebel base was situated in a slightly rockier terrain, the psychological terror could easily be considerably weakened by everyone witnessing one of those things trip over before the battle even began. 😃

SilverWook said:
I guess safety regulations don’t exist much in the Star Wars universe, hence the lack of railings in a lot of places.

Well, neglecting some safety measures for budget or whatever is one thing, but this looks more like deathtrap design contest. Or perhaps not. I am no expert, what would I know…

SilverWook said:
There were hovering tanks in TPM.

Oh yeah! And those republic walkers from AOTC also looked much more durable than AT-ATs. Anyway, since I am complimenting the PT designs now, I guess it’s about time to go to sleep…

TV’s Frink said:

What about the Walkers? Armor too powerful for blasters, and yet they built them on spindly little legs, and the snowspeeders just happen to have harpoon guns for the sole purpose of bringing them down?

Exactly! As visually impressive as they are, technically the imperial walker might just be the stupidest vehicle in the whole of Star Wars. Why would anyone design something that is probably quite expensive, yet at the same time so easy to overturn? They could have hovering tanks, they could have tanks with tracks, but they chose to go with this clumsy monstrosity. Blame admiral Ozzel, I guess…

Also (to bring this at least slightly on topic) , Star Wars galaxy architects don’t seem to like the concept of railings, especially when bottomless chasms are involved, as demonstrated in Episodes 4, 1 and 7. Yet it doesn’t bother me.

(well, it kinda did in TPM, but that was just WAY too much).

Yeah, that is one of the more puzzling bits of the original Star Wars. In the radio drama there is actually a scene, where Threepio convinces the owner of a private residence that they are a part of a new maintenance crew and they are offering their services for free to attract customers, so the owner lets them in and they can hide from the stormtroopers. I don’t know if this is based on anything from the scripts or the novelization, but it works quite well.

To me another weird moment is when the stormtroopers find the droids hiding in the closet in the DS control room and Threepio just tells them that Luke & co. are at the detention levels. It always seemed to me like he got scared by the stormtroopers and ratted everyone out. The radio drama once again makes it clear that Threepio deceived the stormtroopers into believing that the droids are a part of the DS personnel and have been locked in the closet by the intruders, who are now making a racket in the detention block.

imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:
Someone thinking that TFA is too similar to ANH is a valid complaint while TIE Fighters have two seats is not.

As opposed to former, the later is actually technically valid complaint. As an expert, I can easily say…

Enough of this already! Star Wars never gave a damn about technical specifics. We could easily rip the OT to shreds based on the questionably designed or downright flawed machinery and locations. But we don’t because that would be stupid, right?

In concept it doesn’t sound bad, but really there is a ton of prequel edits, some are better, some are worse, but to me, they all seem like an effort to polish a turd. Your ideas seem quite radical, so I am interested in how are you planning to achieve them. Will you be creating new footage? I have found out that if I were to edit out all the stuff in the PT that bothers me, all the films would probably be under 15 minutes long.

Looking forward to the specifics. 😃

swagmasta69 said:

Wexter said:

swagmasta69 said:

I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.

You realize the creator went completely crazy after 1980, right?

Are you sure it wasn’t you who went completely crazy after 1980?
Because ROTJ has the best scenes in the saga.

I am pretty sure I did, but that is completely besides the point. ROTJ has some nice moments, that is correct. I am not saying the damage happened overnight.

swagmasta69 said:

I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.

You realize the creator went completely crazy after 1980, right?

Of course bathrooms exist in SWU. Where do you think Obi-Wan was hiding when Padmé was travelling to Mustafar?

Too bad. The public wants to see a movie called Star Wars Episode X: Frodo and Loki Go To Azkaban. Just ask them.

Noted. Sorry for the disturbance. 😃

Bosk said:

Wexter said:

I don’t think Bosk is a troll. My money is on him being just an obnoxious dim-wit with no friends and no skills.

My money is that you have absolutely no Penis.

Ouch! Looks like my assessment was spot-on. Now go play with your own and try not to hurt yourself 😉

I don’t think Bosk is a troll. My money is on him being just an obnoxious dim-wit with no friends and no skills.

Darth vader vs. the Incredible Hulk

Please, don’t.

Lord Haseo said:

Even when I was a kid I was never content with ROTJ’s ending. I want more. Hopefully the ST will have a more grandiose ending to the Saga. While ROTJ’s ending was great when the OT only existed now that Star Wars is a Saga the impact has dissipated.

To me ROTJ is disappointing even as an ending to the trilogy. I don’t really care about saga, but still ROTJ just resolves all the brilliant plot-lines established by the previous two films in the laziest way possible. When ESB was being made, four to seven more sequels were planned. This plan was cut short and the ultimate victory of the rebels was rushed like crazy. When DS1 was destroyed, it was a setback for the Empire, but still they remained strong. Then when DS2 is destroyed (granted, along with the emperor and a bunch of Star Destroyers), the Empire is pretty much finished? How come? The trilogy just seems to end mid-air.

Having said that, when I was a kid, ROTJ was my favourite. 😃

Down with capitalism! Star Wars belongs to THE PEOPLE. THE PEOPLE is wise and speaks to us through Bosk the poet’s posts. Hear: anything beyond the film with teddy bears and Jabba’s palace freakshow is only an exercise in consumerism and merchandising.