Warbler

maybe you are supposed to enjoy him killing the guy,  but are you supposed to enjoy it because he's gay?  I don't see it.

You really think Scottish people are gong to attack English people because of Braveheart?  I don't think so.    You agree they did shitty things, what is so wrong about a movie depicting them doing those things?    Would you say it was wrong to do a movie about the holocaust for fear of people attacking ordinary Germans?  

IMPEACH PALPATINE!!   HE IS EVIL!   HE'S A SITH LORD!  HE'LL ENSLAVE US ALL!!  DO NOT FALL FOR HIS LIES!!! HE MUST BE STOPPED!!!!  IMPEACH HIM!!!!  VOTE FOR MON MOTHMA!!!  

Vaderisnothayden said:

vote_for_palpatine said:

That's twisting the situation. I'm hardly saying gays should only be portrayed in a positive light. In this situation their gayness was a subject of mockery and it was clearly portrayed as being a negative trait.

"That's twisting the situation" implies some sort of intent to perform a takedown on you, and that's not what I was trying to do. I simply thought your first statement seemed extreme, but then you clarified it with the above statement, which was 100% reasonable.

But then you said this:

But his being portrayed as an eejit is part of the anti-gay thing.

This reads as though you mean to say that it is an anti-gay thing to portray gays as idiots. This is not necessarily true. A great number of eejits happen to be gay. I hate to say that and risk being labled as some sort of bigot, but idiocy runs rampant throughout humanity, regardless of gender, race, socio-economic status - or sexual preference.

Maybe it was irrelevant to the larger point of the movie, but I think it goes to show what a despotic bully Longshanks was.

I did agree that the movie was stacked against the British, as though the Scots were pure as the driven snow and the EEEEEEEVILLL British existed only to commit atrocities. History is rarely so one-sided.

You can portray a gay person as an eejit (not idiot, not precisely the same thing, includes a side of jerk in there too) and have it come off like they're an eejit who just happens to be gay. But you can also portray a gay person as an eejit in such a way as to imply that they're an eejit because they're gay, and that's what I think Braveheart does there.

And I think you're really supposed to be cheering on Longshanks when he kills the guy.

 

 

the movie may or may not be anti-gay,  but it is pretty clear you are never supposed to cheer for Longshanks.    He's the bad guy of the film.     Maybe the film was anti-English, but the Brits have done some pretty bad things at times.  Its a movie about Scotland fighting for independence from England.   You can't it expect it to be pro-English. I am not offended and I am of English decent.

I think I can kind of see where you are coming from with his offensive remarks.   Whenever you see him on screen,  all you can think about are those statements and ruins the enjoyment of the film for you.    Maybe I am wrong for enjoying his films, I don't know.  All I can say is that I like some of his films and I condemn his statements.    I read the wiki page about Gibson's father.   He seems like a real nut job.  

Vaderisnothayden said:

Warbler said:

Vaderisnothayden, I couldn't disagree with you more about the Godfathers film.  But, you're entitled to your opinion.   I guess we just have different tastes when it comes to movies and that's ok.   

As for Gibsom.   Yes his statements are unacceptable, but why let that deprive you from enjoying his movies?   I can perhaps understand not wanting to buy a ticket to his movie and give him money.  But you can still the enjoy his movies when they come on TV.   Even if want to take it as far as not watching his movies and boycotting everything Gibson,  I still don't understand letting his statements affect you opinions how good or bad the movie is.  For instance,  I boycott the Eagles because of Michael Vick.   But  I don't let that affect how I evaluate Vick as a QB nor do I let it affect how I evaluate the quality of the Eagles' team as a whole.    see what I mean?

As for Braveheart,  if we were only supposed to get a kick out of the death  because the guy was gay,  explain I how got a kick out of it without knowing he was gay?

Because he's portrayed as an eejit. But his being portrayed as an eejit is part of the anti-gay thing. You're supposed to get a kick out of seeing a gay guy go out the window. I'm sorry but that's obvious. Just because you didn't know and got a kick anyway doesn't change it.

 

ok, if you say so. 

Vaderisnothayden

As for Gibsom.   Yes his statements are unacceptable, but why let that deprive you from enjoying his movies? 

Well I don't know how anybody could enjoy his movies knowing about his views.

well for one thing, I liked some of his movies before he made the remarks.  Should I just lie and say I hate them now?   I liked Braveheart and thought it was a great movie before his remarks,  should I now say it stinks?   His remarks don't change the quality(or lack there of) of his movies themselves.

Vaderisnothayden

I still don't understand letting his statements affect you opinions how good or bad the movie is. 

Well, as far as I'm concerned having Gibson in a movie is like having a big crap front and center the whole movie. I don't want to watch that and I don't think it's much good.

I'm guessing you thought before the statements.    So your dislike comes from the movies themselves and not the offending statements he made

C3PX said:

Warbler said:

C3PX said:

Casablanca is overrated. And underrated. At the same time. 

I'm not sure I understand you.   Could you please elaborate?  

 

I'd love to elaborate on it. Don't get me wrong, I really, really like Casablanca, if I had to write down a list of only ten movies that I'd be allowed to watch for the rest of my life, Casablanca would be on that list.

That said, I think the movie is overrated to a good degree. I think it just gets far more credit than any film deserves. It is elevated to the level that for someone to say they don't like it is almost blasphemous. To an extent, I think we are even at the point where proclaiming it one of the, if not the greatest film of all time is a prerequisite to being considered a true film geek. Sometime I wonder if half the people who "love it" don't do so simply because they feel they should, rather than because of their own honest objective viewing of the film. (Don't think I doubt that you genuinely like the movie, Warb. I've no doubt that you do).

On the opposite side of this, there are way too many people out there who have not seen this really great movie for no fair reason other than "Isn't that film like, really, really old?" which isn't a good enough reason in my book.

So, I think it is way overrated among certain circles; and unfortunately underrated (or, more accurately: unknown) to an unfortunate portion of the population.

blasphemer!!  just kidding.      I wouldn't serious call it blasphemous to like Casablanca, would just disagree with person much in the same way that I disagreed  with Vaderisnothayden on the Godfather films.   The only reason I would accuse someone of blasphemy for not liking Casablanca would if they said they didn't like it because it was in b&w.  That is no reason for not liking a movie.   Those kinds of people should be drawn, hung and quartered(along with those that want to colorize b&w movies).  As for why I like Casablanca,  I just think all the parts of the it(set, music, story, directing,  actors and their characters, timing of the release) just all blend together  in it unlike another other movie before or since.    I'll be honest, when I first saw it as a kid, I didn't think to much of it.   But then as I got older I watched again and the older I got, the more I enjoyed it until it got to the point where I thought it was the best movie ever made.

Vaderisnothayden, I couldn't disagree with you more about the Godfathers film.  But, you're entitled to your opinion.   I guess we just have different tastes when it comes to movies and that's ok.   

As for Gibsom.   Yes his statements are unacceptable, but why let that deprive you from enjoying his movies?   I can perhaps understand not wanting to buy a ticket to his movie and give him money.  But you can still the enjoy his movies when they come on TV.   Even if want to take it as far as not watching his movies and boycotting everything Gibson,  I still don't understand letting his statements affect you opinions how good or bad the movie is.  For instance,  I boycott the Eagles because of Michael Vick.   But  I don't let that affect how I evaluate Vick as a QB nor do I let it affect how I evaluate the quality of the Eagles' team as a whole.    see what I mean?

As for Braveheart,  if we were only supposed to get a kick out of the death  because the guy was gay,  explain I how got a kick out of it without knowing he was gay?

Vaderisnothayden said:

The film gave a very negative portrayal of gays and used a character being gay as a way of showing him as contemptible. The film also invites you to get a kick out of a gay guy being thrown out a window.

but I don't think it invites to get a kick out of it because he was gay.  You get a kick out it because it shows what kind of badass Longshanks is.   I think we would have gotten just as much a kick out of that scene if the guy had been straight.  In fact, when I first watched this movie, way back when it was in the theater,  I didn't get that Longshanks' son was gay and that the guy Longshanks threw out the window was his boyfriend.   I thought he was just Edward jr's friend, and I still got a kick out of the scene.   

Vaderisnothayden said:

As for his comments about Jews, I think they say something about him and I don't want to be watching a guy like that onscreen.

well,  I guess some people can separate his comments from his movies and some us can't.    Its that way with me and Michael Vick.   Some Eagle fans can separate what he did and performance on the field and cheer for him.   I can't.

Vaderisnothayden said:

I have to disagree with you there.   Imho,  Godfather one of the best movies ever made.    It places 2nd in my list.   Casablanca is 1st in my list.     Brando is perfect in the role of Vito Corleone.    Al Pacino also gives a great performance.   All the actors in that movie do.   You are of course entitled to your opinion.   I'm curious,  why do you believe it to be overrated? 

It doesn't have any great emotional depth, which is what you need for a film to be great. And Brando's performance doesn't give us enough. Brando's much better in Don Juan De Marco than he is in his most acclaimed performances. Al Pacino is good in it but his performance only goes so far. Godfather 3 had rather more emotional depth than Godfather.

Godfather doesn't have great emotional depth?  Well maybe not,  but it has good emotional depth and it has great performances, great characters  great story,  great soundtrack, great scenes, great lines, .     I think you have to go beyond just how much emotional depth a movie has to measure how great a movie is.     Brando's may not give you enough, but it certainly does give me enough.   I'm not sure what else you could have asked him to do in the role. 

As for Godfather 3,  I'll agree its better than most people think it is.  But is still is not anywhere near as good as the first one.   The emotional depth is the problem.   It doesn't fit with the rest of the series.  I can kind of understand Michael Corleone being weaker in this movie,  but it required Andrew Garcia to step it up a notch and give the great kind of performance that Brando, Pacino, and De De Niro  all gave in the first two movies. It also required  Vincent Corleone's character to be the kind of leader that Michael and Vito Corleone were.  Neither happened.    Also, Sofia Coppola was a terrible pick for Mary Corleone.  No EMOTIONAL DEPTH there.   Pacino over acts, and Coppola does bad job of directing this one.    I think you could kind of say he overdirected it.  

C3PX said:

Casablanca is overrated. And underrated. At the same time. 

I'm not sure I understand you.   Could you please elaborate?  

Vaderisnothayden said:

Godfather is overrated. As is Brando's performance in it.

I have to disagree with you there.   Imho,  Godfather one of the best movies ever made.    It places 2nd in my list.   Casablanca is 1st in my list.     Brando is perfect in the role of Vito Corleone.    Al Pacino also gives a great performance.   All the actors in that movie do.   You are of course entitled to your opinion.   I'm curious,  why do you believe it to be overrated? 

As for Mel Gibson.   I object to the things he said about Jewish people,  but I try to judge his films on their own.    As for gays in Braveheart,  I didn't see anything wrong.   The film takes place in the 1300s gays were much less acceptable, and prejudice against them and other minorities would be common. 

Warbler with Yavin weekly here again.   Care to comment on the reports coming out that You and Jedi Master Yoda had a violent dispute in the Senate Chambers that left the Chambers seriously damaged? 

Also is there any truth to the rumor that you are secretly building a powerful battle station capable of destroying an entire world with just one shot?

Warbler, with Yavin Weekly yet again with a follow up.  So you admit you are a Sith?

Isn't it true that you are running the Trade Federation, that you are playing the Republic and the Trade Federation against each in an effort to gain more power?

Warbler, with Yavin Weekly again.    Any truth to the rumor that you are in reality an evil Sith Lord hellbent on conquering the galaxy?

Warbler again with the Yavin Weekly.  Could you please tell us about order 66?

I have nothing against Star Trek VI,  its just that Star Trek V seemed to mark a turning point.   As good as Star Trek VI was,  Star Trek just wasn't the same after Star Trek V.

Warbler with Yavin Weekly here,

any truth to the rumor that you've been having a undue influence over Anakin Skywalker?

DON'T LET THE PALPATINE FOOL YOU!!  VOTE FOR MON MOTHMA!

I said Star Trek V, not Star Trek VI.  

real James Bond movies

Star Trek before Star Trek V

CSI before Grissom left.

Commodore 64

Atari 2600

a time when cell phones didn't go off in movie theaters and live performances and church services. 

The Philadelphia Eagles' old uniforms.

pre-Jeffery Lurie Eagles organization

a time when people dressed up to go out and dressed up for church instead of wearing jeans and a tee-shirt or shorts. 

Wanamaker's, Gimbel's, and Strawbridge and Clothier(oldtime Philadelphia department stores)

Best(another long gone store)

Clovers(yet another long gone store,  it was kind of like Walmart, but much much better)

The Franklin Institute before all the renovations they made in the 90's

all football teams from pros to college to highschool all back in the uniforms they wore in the 1980s.

stadiums whose naming rights weren't sold to corporations.

bowl games that weren't named after corporations.

Roy Rodgers(the fast food place)

Comptons Log Cabin(a long gone restaurant in my home town where my parents meant on their first date - a blind date, and where my brother and I celebrated many a birthday, and my Grandmother's big 80th birthday party was had)

an old  theater(probably started as a vaudeville stage)  that showed movies and live performances and that was closed bulldozed just so drugstore could be built there(the drug store quickly close and now the building sits vancant).  

my Grandmother's house(my father's side), the lake that was next to it,  and my old house I grew up in. 

also it doesn't yet qualify cause its not yet gone, but soon will be: my Grandparents' house(my mother's side).  It just got sold.  The last trip there will be very sad.  I'm not looking forward to it.

yes, that's good idea.   Security!!  please tazer both Frink and xhonzi!

Mcdonalds chicken biscuits.   I loved them and they just took them off the menu.  grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! 

he was?  what was he good in?   in certainly wasn't the PT.     Of course, that may just have been because of poor directing.

Indiana Smith franchise?  never heard of it.   Is it anything like the Indiana Jones franchise?

PTisnotstarwars 

Happy Groundhog Day.

I'm not sure how that would make the situation any better.   She's still dead either way.

*sigh*

its a bit more complicated than that.