Vladius

Excellent work.

Reading through all of it at once, it’s surprising how compatible a lot of it is with how the prequels turned out. The structure of how the Republic fell and became the Empire is all there. The parts that prequel fans are stubbornly attached to seem to be droid armies, the Republic being the side with the clones, and the Jedi being “blind” (dumb). Imagine how much more impactful the betrayal of the Jedi would be if it came from normal people they served alongside with and not programmed clones, or from Anakin stalking them and relying on the well-earned trust they have in him.

The Force has an aspect, somewhat separate from its other aspects, responsible for the existence of life and consciousness. Not necessarily life force or life energy or whatever, but just the spark of being. This is how droids can be sentient living beings even though they don’t otherwise register in the Force. This is how ysalimiri and other creatures that block the Force can do so without harming themselves or life around them. This is how the Jedi Exile survived and continued living while cut off from the Force, and also how they got it back. I haven’t read all the Yuuzhan Vong books but I imagine this would also apply to them.

I thought the clone wars were plural because they were a number of conflicts that all kind of sprang up at once or close together due to cloning being invented or made easier somehow. Any group of systems, warlord or terrorist cell suddenly had the capability to make a clone army, and it destabilized the whole galaxy until cloning was somehow banned or prevented or all the would-be rogue cloners (what the Thrawn books call the Clone Masters) were dealt with. It would have been even more chaotic because you could use clones to impersonate people and sow confusion and paranoia.

NeverarGreat said:

There’s that as well, but I’ve always found it a strange and horrifying implication that a clone’s death is more justifiable than the death of a more ‘normal’ person. I’ve even seen people online specifically saying that clones aren’t really people, so it’s okay that they are dying by the thousands.

I honestly would have just preferred it if George had given us a Republic army vs Clones, because at least then there would be no denying that this war was waged at horrible human cost, no matter how a person viewed the clones. As it is, the ‘family friendly’ marketing of droids vs clones implies that clones are less than a true person, and for me is far more ethically insidious than just admitting that war is inseparable from atrocity.

No no no, you don’t get it, it’s to show how the Jedi have lost their touch, how far the Jedi have fallen! (from what? we don’t know)

Wrath of Khan
good episodes of The Next Generation
First Contact
Deep Space Nine
Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force game

MORC said:

I started getting into this franchise not long ago after years of avoiding it, so I have no nostalgic attachment to it. (I had watched some of it as a kid with my parents but the movies did not get my attention at the time so I mostly forgot what I saw then)
I don’t have anything new to say about the prequels but I want to highlight that the greatest problem in them is just how much TPM doesn’t advance anything in the plot or relationships.
In the grand scheme of all the trash that gets released into movie theaters, I think the prequels are fine action-adventure space movies, even good at certain points. I see the bad reception as a result of Lucas getting out of touch but also the fans have massively high standards set by an overrated perception of the originals. Prequel fans are accused of being nostalgia biased but the same is true for OT fans who can’t see the issues in those films.
I respect ANH knowing the time it came out and the limitations in technology and budget, but it is a movie that didn’t age well. RotJ has many of the flaws that plague the prequels but it’s not acknowledged enough even by those who criticize it. ESB is the only Star Wars film I believe deserves it’s legendary status, the only things that rival it in quality are the 03 Clone Wars cartoon and a few episodes from TCW.

Original Star Wars aged plenty well. I think people see the Tantive IV explosion at the beginning and start immediately going “oh nooooooo 1970s cheesy baddd” but the effects generally are really well done. Everything feels tactile and real. It would be nice if the audio on the dialogue were a little bit higher quality but it’s unfair to expect that.

Same with Return of the Jedi. I think you’ll find that a lot of people do criticize it and compare it with the prequels. I completely disagree with those people. It’s a fantastic movie in so many ways.

The high standards are not unreasonable given that the whole point of the prequels was to make money by filling in three more slots in a story that was already finished. If three movies in a row were all incredible, and you now have the effects budget, the technology, the time, and the momentum to supposedly do things even better than before, why don’t you do that?

For what it’s worth, both my youngest brother, and my wife, who had not seen the Star Wars movies before, watched all six with me on two separate occasions. (My wife didn’t even know Vader was Luke’s father.) We watched them in release order. Both of them independently thought the original trilogy was better. Granted you might argue that I had conditioned them in some way or told them that I liked one more than the other, or told them what parts I liked or didn’t like. That might have happened a few times but in general I tried to avoid it. My wife really liked Jar Jar, and they thought the incest thing in the OT was funny, but in almost every way they had the same praises and criticisms people have always had about the prequels before the 2010s pseudo-revival.

Sideburns of BoShek said:

DarthStarkiller1234 said:

Sideburns of BoShek said:

It would be cool to see a timeline for that pre-Prequel era, with events and also character bios. Including links to actual sources like the films, WEG sourcebooks, guidebooks, novels, comics, games and any other stuff like Making Magic and Behind The Magic CD-Roms. Or even a single thread covering those events and characters, their life and lore pre-PT.

Some OT threads that have covered what you are posting about (from a quick look around the Indexes on here):

• What if The Prequels were based on the Pre-PT EU and were more “OT Accurate”
• Were the Jedi supposed to not be allowed to get married, have children or any possessions when the OT was made?
• At what point did Tatooine robes become Jedi uniforms?
• OT lightsaber colours; and some waffling on about the various colours used across the OT & Expanded Universe
• Wars, organizations, relationships, and galactic history before the Prequels
• Putting The Original-Original Trilogy’s Prequel Story together
• Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue; + character ages + when certain events took place
• Did G. Lucas ever intend to portray the Jedi as a flawed institution in the Prequels? Or was it added later in the EU?
• Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies… (‘50+ issues’ list)

Some OT film drafts and character threads for the OT are in An Index for Original Trilogy Discussion
 

There is also a section in the ‘An Index for General Star Wars Discussion’ for this topic; with many relevant threads:

‘Star Wars before the Prequels (with the PT ushering in George’s ‘nu-SW rules’) : life and lore from both the Original Trilogy & EU’

 

Edit: I thought I had deja vu! You posted asking about ages of characters here just a month ago?:

How old Anakin and Obi Wan were originally supposed to be?

Ah yeah I’m really starting to get into the Pre-PT prequels so I’m posting a lot of questions if its okay

That’s great, I think there is a number of us on here interested in that era, and some even old enough to remember it!

Although wouldn’t it be better to put it all your questions in one “mega” Pre-Prequel thread? So anyone can easily find and answer any of your questions, and not have repeat questions and answers? Up to you DarthStarkiller1234, I hope you find the answers and information you are looking for.

I edited in 2 more threads to my original list above.

I am surprised there aren’t YouTube videos or even websites covering the topic. There seems to be hundreds of videos online out there repeating the same things on Star Wars, but not so many on the “pre-Prequel” era?

Yeah I think we should have our own thread for this. I’ve actually considered doing a YouTube channel or at least a video in the past, but never had the time.

I would like a link as well. Very curious to see how you put all this together!

People have said this before, but I’m really unsure how it would be done. When people bring up the idea of showing more Vader hunting down Jedi, what would that story look like? How would you do it without making it a very long montage? You could pick one or two or a group of Jedi for him to go after, but why should we get attached to them in particular? The major characters up to this point are all accounted for, so you would have to make up some new ones just for them to die by the end of the movie. Obi Wan’s summary of the situation in the original movie pretty much covers it.

Unpopular opinion - I don’t like their depiction, but as depicted in the movies, the prequel Jedi that people call “dogmatic,” “flawed,” “political,” “cold,” etc. were right about a lot of things.

Anakin was actually too old to be trained. He was actually dangerous. They let him in because they felt bad about Qui Gon’s death. Anakin Chosen One was Qui Gon’s pet project. If the Jedi take any blame for it going wrong, the blame should go first to Qui Gon for setting it up in the first place. The most you can do is take a hard deterministic view of the Force (which is unsupported and I don’t agree with anyway) and say that it was necessary for Anakin to get taken in by Palpatine as a kind of unwitting sleeper agent who could kill him later, so it was necessary for the Jedi to find him and take him in and screw it up somehow. Otherwise everything would be better off.

They weren’t dogmatically following the prophecy, whatever it was. Anakin wasn’t their messiah. Everyone except Qui Gon and Obi Wan treated the prophecy with skepticism from the very beginning. If it was misread or misinterpreted or even fake, it didn’t really phase them because it wasn’t their idea. Somehow people get the notion that the Jedi were religious zealots and this demonstrates that they got super owned because they were too proud to understand their own doctrine. No, they openly talk about how they don’t know what it means! And ultimately their version of the prophecy is true anyway!

Anakin was not proof of why the Jedi rules “didn’t work,” he was proof that breaking the rules causes lots of problems. He is an example of why the rules exist. The Jedi rules clearly worked for thousands of years before this time. When people say “well the Jedi should teach people that it’s healthy to have emotions instead of suppressing them,” that’s exactly what they do. That’s what all the training is about. It’s meditation, it’s mindfulness, it’s stoicism, whatever you want to call it. The same thing modern people turn to because they’re so pent up and anxious all the time. Anakin deliberately ignored all of that.

Anakin also chose to stay. He could have quit and gone home to his mom at any time, or quit to be with Padme at any time. That’s why there’s dialogue in Revenge of the Sith dedicated to his multiple motivations. He wants to be a master, he wants to be on the council. He’s ambitious and craves power, not just love.

Speaking of, the Jedi were right not to make him a master. He didn’t earn it. They didn’t want to send the message that Palpatine had absolute power over everyone including the Jedi. It was indeed an honor to let Anakin on at all, given that it was illegitimate to begin with. Obi Wan was likely telling the truth when he said the council would make him a master soon. It was about sticking it to Palpatine. They also put a lot of trust into Anakin by assigning him to spy on Palpatine directly. Windu, Anakin’s biggest critic, thought it was a bad idea, but went ahead with it anyway. Though he didn’t want Anakin to come along, he believed him immediately when he said Palpatine was a Sith Lord. When Padme said “they trust you with their lives,” she was right.

And the Jedi were right to spy on Palpatine. They should have done it even sooner. They were also right to try to assassinate him. He did have control of the senate and the courts, and was too dangerous to be left alive. Anakin’s interjections here about “the Jedi way” were a self-serving delay tactic so he could try to learn some unnatural abilities and save Padme.

Going into the original trilogy, Yoda and Obi Wan were right to tell Luke not to go to Cloud City. The fact that this is in doubt is absolutely crazy to me, but people have retroactively determined this is about the “attachment rule” from the prequels. No, it’s about how Luke isn’t ready, demonstrated by how he failed the test in the cave. He got his hand cut off and almost died. Lando freed Leia, Chewie, and the droids without Luke’s intervention and Han would have been frozen and taken either way. It’s not that they don’t want Luke to have friends.

I’ve ranted about this many times before, but Yoda and Obi Wan were not telling Luke to kill Vader. They told him to confront Vader. He had to face him to become a Jedi, whatever the outcome might be. Obi Wan says in effect that Luke has to be willing to kill Vader if it comes down to it, but he doesn’t tell him that this is explicitly a tactical assassination mission. It’s a spiritual test, a Jedi trial. It’s the follow up to the cave and the duel in ESB. They know that there’s a whole rebel alliance out there that will take care of blowing up death stars and all the other stuff. It’s a battle for Luke’s soul, which also turns into a battle for Vader’s soul. This is borne out in the early EU in the Timothy Zahn books, where it’s stated that Yoda and Obi Wan could have annihilated Vader and the Emperor any time they wanted, but they chose not to. This was overwritten later but it shows the frame of mind going on in ROTJ. It’s not a “take out the enemy commander” thing. “Soon I’ll be dead, and you with me.”

The line “once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny” is also misinterpreted. Yoda isn’t saying literally any time you get angry or use the Force in anger, you’re beyond hope or redemption. It’s not clear if there’s a specific threshold as it’s more of a gradual process. But in any case, turning to the dark side will continue to dominate your destiny in some form even if you are redeemed. The consequences of your actions will still be there. Vader was redeemed at the cost of dying, still knowing all the damage he had done will never be fully undone. His path through the dark side greatly limited the possibilities and freedom of his life, all the way to the end, redemption or not.

The Jedi are highly situationally stupid in Attack of the Clones so that the plot can happen. They probably could have put in some effort to free Anakin’s mom (assuming they had the chance before Lars already did,) and Obi Wan lied about Luke’s father’s identity. Other than that though, their track record is a lot more solid than people give them credit for.

If I were in the situation and trying to make a good movie with good effort, I would recast. I would prefer that they just not use them, which is probably what will happen.

Superweapon VII said:

While I like the idea of a SW Multiverse, I hate the idea of crossovers between universes. I have little doubt Filoni and co. would sink that low.

Technically they already have with the World Between Worlds. Ahsoka was rescued from getting killed by Vader (maybe) by getting pulled into another timeline.

I think I watched the movies repeatedly on VHS at probably 2 or 3 years old, so I can’t even remember. But I probably thought it was funny.

Spartacus01 said:

What I’m about to say might sound like a joke, but I’m serious.

If they will ever make an official “What if” animated episode (or movie) where Anakin doesn’t fall to the Dark Side and manages to live a happy life with Padmé, THAT will become the Canon version in my head. I will ignore Revenge of the Sith and subsequent works forever. Period.

I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion, though…

I thought something like this a little while ago, back when everyone was getting hyped about Ewan McGregor and Hayden Christensen returning for Disney+ shows, and while all the comic book movies were jumping into multiverse stories. Instead of doing all these little piecemeal bits and announcing and canceling a dozen movies and putting out shows with a lower budget than they should have, they could have struck while the iron was hot and made an alternate universe movie like you’re talking about. Specifically that scenario, where Anakin stays good and they have to go on another adventure. It would have made a lot of money and been very popular.

I think that’s because the Sith race eventually gets distinguished from the Sith “order,” which further gets boiled down to the Rule of Two stuff. The red skinned Sith race probably have more group solidarity than the later Sith which are just whoever claims the title, or the Rule of Two Sith where you’re literally supposed to kill your master. Still it’s a shame that modern fans only know the stereotypical kind. Supposedly in the Old Republic MMO game you can play as a “light side Sith” somehow and the Sith empire gets diluted and loses its edge by getting more political and less focused on being evil, but I think that’s lame.
It’s also interesting how Marka Ragnos’s ghost shows up to try to keep them together.

People do have a hard time coming up with compelling and unique ways to do the Jedi turns to the dark side story. Even within the context of the time, it was a deliberate comparison between Luke in Dark Empire and Ulic Qel Droma.
It’s too frequent. It happened way too much and led to people thinking that all the Jedi were screwups. Kylo Ren in the sequels was just another example that was set before by Jacen Solo (another big mistake.)

Yeah Andor is about actual rebels and the difficulties of starting a rebellion. Rebels would be a much better title for it too. Sometimes when watching Andor I started imagining all the events of Rebels happening in the same world and laughing.

There were some good episodes of The Clone Wars and it was an okay show in general. Just pretty standard Star Wars stuff to watch if you had nothing better to do. There are parts I really hated but you could mostly just pick and choose which episodes to skip. Rebels started out similarly and I thought it actually had more promise due to being about original characters with uncertain futures.
But yeah, I got about to the point of helicopter sabers and just said this is too stupid. There are a lot of problems with it, including how incompetent and nonthreatening the Empire is, and the goofy World Between Worlds nonsense. What really bothered me was how much it ran roughshod over the original trilogy. When they met Lando it was a fun one off thing. Then they end up meeting almost every main character of the OT, including having regular conversations with Yoda and personally visiting Obi Wan on Tatooine. There are three fully fledged Jedi running around, openly working for the rebellion as Jedi, running into Vader all the time and surviving. Plus Darth Maul. One gets killed, one gets sent to another galaxy with Thrawn, but Ahsoka is still completely unaccounted for during the OT. She got written into a corner where she’s roughly evenly matched with Vader and then some time travel silliness happens and she just vanishes with no explanation. There is no reason given why they don’t just coordinate with Obi Wan and Yoda and gank Vader, or why Luke and Leia matter in this equation at all. Then all these same problems resurface with the same characters in the Ahsoka show.

All the stuff about Filoni being “Lucas’s apprentice” was always cringe. He cares about his specific interpretation of the prequels and his own pet characters and not much else. In particular it seems like he dislikes Luke.

I feel like this was de facto the case anyway, so things are only going to get worse.

JadedSkywalker said:

I hate the name Sheev, and i hate that Palpatine was renamed Darth Sidious more than Stewjon even if its idiotic. Just like i prefer apprentice over Padawan. I know this had nothing to do with the EU but, i dislike it as much as Yoda and Palpatine even having lightsabers.

Canon is whatever until George decided to change something. He was like Indiana, i’m making it up as i go.

They really need to stop pretending the tie in fiction that comes out of licensing is on the same level as the film and tv canon. They just keep upsetting people every time Filoni changes something.

Agreed on all points

Though it is funny that in the book, the reason that we don’t hear his first name very much is that he also hates it. He wants to style himself after his family’s noble name and that’s it.

Spartacus01 said:

Vladius said:

Layer 4 - I have very specific ideas about what people think about the movies’ history. I was there. They were disliked and considered disappointing. People hated Jar Jar. People hated young Anakin. People hated Anakin/Padme. People thought everything with Jango Fett was pandering. Younger millennials and some zoomers who weren’t even alive at the time try to pull revisionism over this and say that it was a small minority of hater fans and everyone else loved it, but this is absolutely not the case. It’s strange but this is the only site where you can still get honest opinions about this. The movies are not popular now because they’re good, even if you believe they are good. They’re popular due to a mix of nostalgia, memes, and expanded media projects like video games. A lot of this was successful astroturfing. The biggest thing is The Clone Wars show, which isn’t even that good, that “fixes the prequels.” The same people who tell you that they’re great movies that hold up will also tell you to watch eight seasons of animated shows and read extra books and comics to get the whole story.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to attack you or anything. But I think that you are being guilty of the same extremism you are criticizing. You said: “You can look at them as pieces of pop entertainment or as serious films or both, but you don’t have to go to extremes either way”, which is totally correct. But then, when it comes to the history of the movies and their appreciation by the fandom, you did the same thing you are preaching against: generalizing. Sure, I’m one of those millennials who were not around at the time, I became a Star Wars fan in 2018. But I don’t think that saying that everyone hated the movies is fair. I think that it is more fair to say that the fanbase felt very divided about them. I have known a lot of people who liked them from the beginning, just as I have known a lot of people who disliked them from the beginning. There were a lot of fans who liked the Prequels in the 2000s, just as there were a lot of fans who hated them in the same time period. Saying that everyone hated the movies is unfair to the people who always liked them. And they exist, denying their existence is unfair too. Furthermore, I have known a lot of people who became fans of the Saga only in recent years, watched the Prequels as adults, and liked them a lot. I’m one of them. So, to say that they became popular in recent years only because of nostalgia and the memes is a bit unfair too. I liked them when I first watched them. And I was already 18 when I watched them, so I didn’t have any nostalgia for them.

I didn’t say everyone. I also said that I grew up with them and liked them, if you’ll remember. Most people also loved certain aspects that were incredibly popular, like the podrace and Darth Maul. What I said is that the idea that the people who were disappointed or who didn’t like them were a minority is untrue. This entire website exists because of the widespread frustration with the special editions and the prequels.

I don’t know your own personal story so I can’t tell you what happened to you. But their revival in popularity is absolutely due to those things I said. It’s:
*People who grew up with them getting older and looking back
*People first watching and enjoying the Red Letter Media prequel reviews, then the backlash against them
*Contrarianism; blogs, forums, and YouTube video essays that get into politics or film theory to hype up their more intellectual aspects as “underrated”
*Familiarity with the Clone Wars/prequel time period due to video games, specifically Lego Star Wars and Star Wars Battlefront 1 and 2
*The Clone Wars animated show and Dave Filoni stuff “fixes the prequels”
*Memes and funny dialogue allow people to enjoy both the good parts and the bad parts; the bad parts are just plugged into a “so bad it’s good” ethos or postmodern internet sense of irony so that they don’t detract from the overall whole

Again this doesn’t apply to everyone, I’m talking about the general trend. I watched all of this happen in real time.

Always loved it. Doesn’t get enough credit and it bothers me when people think KOTOR (or even worse, TOR) invented the time period. The visual aesthetic is incredible and has never been done before or since.

I have multiple layers of opinions and it’s hard to put them into a coherent whole.

Layer 1 - I am disappointed at what they did to the Expanded Universe, and at how they squandered their own potential. The main characters, the Jedi, the Force, the Clone Wars, etc. could have all been more interesting and closer to their pre-1999 counterparts in the original trilogy and the EU. This gets even worse the longer time goes on because the errors it made in depicting the Jedi and the Force have only gotten more extreme in the EU and in Disney canon until now very few people remember how they’re supposed to be.

Layer 2 - I really enjoyed them as a kid. I had a blast going to the theaters and watching them over and over on VHS and DVD. I was fully involved in all the video games and other extra material coming out around all the Clone Wars stuff, so I understand why people of my generation want them so badly to be “misunderstood masterpieces” or something, even though they’re not. My conclusion I’ve come to is that I really like The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith, and I really hate Attack of the Clones. I think the complaints most people have about the movies (myself included), other than the Jar Jar and bad humor in TPM, can be traced back to Attack of the Clones. The characterizations, massive gaps in logic, and CGI failings are truly awful and generated a lot of bad will.

Layer 3 - I have very specific ideas about what people think about the movies as movies. I don’t think that they’re meaningless or shallow cash grabs with no artistry, but I don’t think they’re Secretly Genius or Hidden Masterpieces or Flawed Gems or whatever gobbledygook. You can look at them as pieces of pop entertainment or as serious films or both, but you don’t have to go to extremes either way. They have good parts and bad parts. I think that ROTS is objectively better than the other two but I understand if people disagree.

Layer 4 - I have very specific ideas about what people think about the movies’ history. I was there. They were disliked and considered disappointing. People hated Jar Jar. People hated young Anakin. People hated Anakin/Padme. People thought everything with Jango Fett was pandering. Younger millennials and some zoomers who weren’t even alive at the time try to pull revisionism over this and say that it was a small minority of hater fans and everyone else loved it, but this is absolutely not the case. It’s strange but this is the only site where you can still get honest opinions about this. The movies are not popular now because they’re good, even if you believe they are good. They’re popular due to a mix of nostalgia, memes, and expanded media projects like video games. A lot of this was successful astroturfing. The biggest thing is The Clone Wars show, which isn’t even that good, that “fixes the prequels.” The same people who tell you that they’re great movies that hold up will also tell you to watch eight seasons of animated shows and read extra books and comics to get the whole story.

Layer 5 - I have very specific ideas about what people think about the ideas in the movies. In real life, as a very religious person, I don’t agree with the concept of total celibacy (as in abstaining from marriage.) However, I understand what monks are and why they do what they do, and I have lots of respect for monks and nuns and for other religious traditions in general. I believe that in Star Wars, the Jedi are objectively correct about the Force and how it works. I think that in universe, their rules were a good idea.
This is extra complicated because of Layer 1. The Jedi should never have been like this. It’s too confusing for people to grasp and it wasn’t done well, and it’s inferior from a storytelling point of view to everything that came before. If I put that aside though, I feel compelled to tell people that the Jedi were actually right about almost everything, within the context of the movies.
The hatred people have for the Jedi, the “cult” accusations, and the apologia the fans do for genocide really bothers me. It comes from a place of hatred and stereotypes for religion in real life. It also comes from pseudoscientific pop psychology ideas inherited from Freud, that emotions are inherently sexual, that they “build up” and “explode” if not given “release” and that self-control is unhealthy. It’s like people who say that the problem with school shooters is that they just weren’t exposed to enough porn. It’s disgusting.
So I credit Lucas for having some inkling of these ideas but I blame him for not actually grasping them or depicting them correctly. I think if the movies did any real-life harm (other than the harassment of some of the actors) then this is it. Anakin killing the younglings is meant to be ugly and sad, but it’s also in very poor taste. Not for the unintentional humor, for the unintentional messaging that they deserved it in some way.

Layer 6 - The dialogue and the memes are funny.

Apb123 said:

Opening Crawl:
Episode VII
RISE OF THE LAST JEDI

The time for peace is over, EVIL has been allowed to rise again in the galaxy. The FIRST ORDER, led by the evil Supreme Leader SNOKE have plunged the unprepared New Republic into disarray.

MASTER LUKE SKYWALKER’s Jedi Academy has been destroyed by KYLO REN, a powerful student, seduced by the Dark Side. In the aftermath, LUKE has vanished, and REY, the sole survivor of the academy, becomes the last beacon of hope for the resistance.

The FIRST ORDER has been preparing in the shadows for their attack and in a sinister twist, KYLO REN has captured REY, bringing her before SNOKE to reveal the location of LUKE SKYWALKER.

The resistance is racing to GENERAL LEIA ORGANA’s position on the planet CRAIT, but they are being trailed by the diabolical FIRST ORDER…

I like this so far but there are way too many all caps words, there should be two at most.

fmalover said:

YouTube user HelloGreedo made what is IMO the best critique of how Palpatine is portrayed. When he first appears in the OT he was inspired by the Roman and Chinese Emperors of old, but the prequels made him so goddamn evil, more akin to a mythological creature from the Underworld.

From what I’ve read about The Rise of Skywalker (I refuse to watch that movie), Abrams cranked up the whole evil entity to a ludicrous level.

I would argue he’s already there in the OT. He definitely had that impression on me as a kid. He’s so evil that he’s willing to let Luke kill him if it will make Luke become evil. I actually don’t like that about Dark Empire, it tries to retcon this into being because he has a clone body backup.