Vaderisnothayden

adywan said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

Nothing with Greivous in it could be OT-ish, Greivous is a character totally at odds with the OT. I very much doubt I would call any of this stuff OT-ish. The movie was even more prequelish than the prequels. I doubt the show could be so different as to be totally on the opposite end of the scale. Modern Hayden-based Anakin, anime-drawn kid, Jar Jar Binks, silly fucking droid troopers, overdone prequelish lightsaber battles, look-isn't-it-cool dark Jedi character, General Greivously Ill-Making... it's not going to be OT-ish.

God just how wrong can you be. I can't believe you can say how crap something is when you haven't even bothered watching it. So many people have told you that its totally different than the Clone wars movie but you say the series can't be "OT-ish" because the movie wasn't. The Anakin character in the series is far removed from the whiny little brat played by Hayden in the prequels. Jar Jar has only been in it once (and that was the only episode i hated). The whole series so far seems more about the characters than the environment, which that alone makes it more OT-ish. God i hated the movie with a vengeance but at least i gave the series a look before i commented about it. And i surprised myself that i'm actually enjoying it.

bkev said:

Octorox, you're fighting a losing battle.  Some people just don't like the Clone Wars, and we oughta respect that.

 

But you can only respect someone who hates it that has actually bothered to see it first.

 

 

Oh quit trying to hit me over the head for not liking your sacred show. When there's been no decent Star Wars screen fiction since 1983 and Lucas clearly has some severely mistaken ideas about Star Wars, then the quality is not going to suddenly rush in in some kid-aimed animated show with awful animation set in the prequels universe. Not going to happen. And I don't care that people have told me the show is not like the movie, I know that the movie is made out of unaired show episodes, so I know there must be something in common, and if the show has ANYTHING in common with the movie then it's going to be bad news. As for the claim that the show could be OT-ish, that's even less plausible then the idea that it might be quality. And I'm not going to change my opinion just because you tell me to. Maybe someday I'll see this show, but until that time I'll reserve the right to bet that it's crap. I can't see it now because they don't show it where I live. So maybe you should get used to me having an opinion you don't like.

And btw, if I ever suffer through episodes of this show and find it is indeed crap then you'll be hearing an awful big I told you so.

skyjedi2005 said:

One of the reasons he hates it is the anime Like style. 

Heck, I don't like anime animation, but even that's better than the Thunderbirds + anime mutation this stuff serves up. It's so horribly unnatural. The most anime thing in it is Ashoka's eyes, which annoy the crap out of me, but there's plenty that's awful about it that's nothing to do with anime. All these still artificial puppet figures. It manages to feel less real than ordinary 2d animation, including anime. The artificiality of it strikes me as coming from the same mindset as the awful feelingless artificial nature of the later two prequels.

And for the record, Thunderbirds type puppets have to be one of the creepiest things ever put onscreen.

TMBTM said:

I will not argue for ever about how the PT are indeed different from the OT, we all are agree about that and we all agree that the OT are better.

But you remember me those who say that the last album of their favorit rock band sucks because it does not sound like the old ones. But it's still the same band! just different mood and/or age. You can say you don't like the last album, but you can't say it's not the same band. It's just that their vision of the music don't fit yours anymore.

And saying that it's not the same univers sounds a bit like you don't want to face the true. Which is that our so beloved movie saga is not exactly the same anymore. You can blind yourself pretending it's not Star Wars, but the new generations will mostly watch them from ep1 to ep6 and we can't do anything about that. All we can do is to show us the Adywan revisited OT! ;)

PS: This was not an angry post against anyone (as I am french, sometimes I don't know if the tone of my english is appropriate or not!)

But you remember me those who say that the last album of their favorit rock band sucks because it does not sound like the old ones. But it's still the same band! just different mood and/or age. You can say you don't like the last album, but you can't say it's not the same band. It's just that their vision of the music don't fit yours anymore.

Here you're running by the mistaken view that George Lucas is Star Wars. He isn't. Star Wars is a specific phenomenon that comes about from the right people coming together at the right time to create a certain effect, involving many people beyond just Lucas. The new films are Lucas but that doesn't mean they're Star Wars. It's not the same as a music band, because the band is certain individuals. If you have those indivduals you have the band, end of story. Not the same with Star Wars. Just because you have Lucas doesn't mean you have Star Wars. Star Wars is a lot more than just George Lucas's "vision" and George Lucas's vision may have changed but that doesn't mean Star Wars changes with it. George Lucas's vision has become at odds with Star Wars, so what he's making isn't real Star Wars anymore.

And saying that it's not the same univers sounds a bit like you don't want to face the true. Which is that our so beloved movie saga is not exactly the same anymore. You can blind yourself pretending it's not Star Wars, but the new generations will mostly watch them from ep1 to ep6 and we can't do anything about that. All we can do is to show us the Adywan revisited OT! ;)

No I'm not having a problem facing anything. By saying it's not the same universe I'm recognizing the truth about the nature of this stuff. George Lucas is approaching this new stuff in a totally different mentality that makes it a different universe. You can approach the same universe in a different mentality without making it a different universe, but the difference here goes farther than that. Seriously different mentality and universe rules, mixed with glaring inconsistencies. It's truly as if it's an alternate universe Star Wars. That's the reality of this new stuff. I'm not blinding myself by pretending anything. It's blind to ignore the massive chasm between this and the old Star Wars and to pretend that they make up one unit. New generations will include people with different attitudes and mentalities who will approach it in different ways. But if they approach it as six episodes they will be mistaken, fooled by Lucas's bullshit. The true Star Wars is the original trilogy. That's the real Star Wars phenomenon. The new stuff is just the sub-par spinoff that's so different in mentality that it doesn't work as being in the same universe. Don't be so sure that future generations will care about the prequels. The old trilogy will be remembered as classics, the rest will not. 

rcb said:

you're fine. but yea, we all agree which was better. and if we didn't have the technology today to do to the PT wat lucas has done, it may not be all that disimliar from the OT. still, you're right. its a new age, new generation and so on. i'm sure the next generation will be saying the same as we are one day.

It's not just a new age and generation. A prequel trilogy that was just a new age and generation would have marked differences from the OT but it would be far more in common with it in spirit and vision. This is not jjust a case of older fans rejecting the product of a new age, this is a case of rejecting stuff that's a total betrayal of what went before. Lucas broke with the tradition entirely. It's not just a new age's new version of an older tradition, it's a new tradition. Hence a new universe. 

Also, the PT is different from the OT in a lot more than different technology. It's a totally different vision, with a totally different attitude and mentality. If Lucas made the PT with the old technology but the same new mentality, it would still be totally different from the OT. Maybe not as different but still vastly different.

devils_syndicate said:

i may be way behind the times, because tonight is the first I've heard of all this nonsense about the original theatric versions not being available in anamorphic, but unmolested context. 

I have the Fullscreen Version in the Gold/Copper Box, which I got right after Christmas of 2004.  I remember watching and thinking to myself "I don't recall many of those scenes, celebrations, or songs" in that part of the movie.  But I figured it had been so long since I seen the movies I just forgot or something. 

So anyhow, was watching The Empire Strikes Back tonight on my brand new PS3, as I wanted to see how the upscaling worked on the built in Blu-Ray Player.  Some of the completely digital scenes were fantastic looking, but the actualy film shots were terrible looking in upscale hd, too grainy.  anyhow about the time the Abominal Snowman scene came up, I knew they never showed him eating the Tom-Tom and getting blood on his face, and then standing up and coming after Luke the way the SE Version did. 

Now after finding all of this out, I'm livid.  This was my favorite set of movies in the whole world.  I used to have all 3 on VHS, and if I had known Lucas was gonna pull this bullshit, I'd have had my dad copy the VHS tapes to DVD with our DVD Recorder, and I'd have been satisfied with that, but now I don't even have those anymore, so I get to go out and waste $40 on this new 2008 release, just so I can have the originals, which will no doubt look like absolute crap on my HDTV and PS3 Blu-Ray.

sorry to bitch in my first post, but as I said I just found out all this crap tonight, because I was looking for the Original Release, but apparently that search is futile, because such a thing doesn't exist in a decent enough quality that keeps up with technology. 

George Lucas had no right in my opinion to tamper with The Trilogy.  he screwed a good thing up, and he broke a lot of Star Wars fans hearts by doing so.  I know some people like all the new scenes, but he should have done it both ways, to keep everyone happy.  what a sacrilege.

Guess we can only hope he makes it all right with a Blu-Ray release.  IMO He should release an Original Theatre Version that is crystal clear but where no scenes have changed...meaning he didnt alter movie lines, character movements or music.  Then he can release his stupid Special Edition versions.  But whatever happens, he needs to make it right, because the Special Edition Fullscreen Version I have...sucks major ass.

 

 

Feel free to bitch. Plenty people here feel your pain.

Nothing with Greivous in it could be OT-ish, Greivous is a character totally at odds with the OT. I very much doubt I would call any of this stuff OT-ish. The movie was even more prequelish than the prequels. I doubt the show could be so different as to be totally on the opposite end of the scale. Modern Hayden-based Anakin, anime-drawn kid, Jar Jar Binks, silly fucking droid troopers, overdone prequelish lightsaber battles, look-isn't-it-cool dark Jedi character, General Greivously Ill-Making... it's not going to be OT-ish.

skyjedi2005 said:

What it comes down to is that prequel trilogy defenders will say star wars was always a kids movie series.  That it was always dumb popcorn cinema, and Lucas backs them up in this. To be honest the oot trilogy was written better and acted better as well as directed better.  But was still popcorn films.  Nobody ever said they were arthouse cinema, or had serious themes and issues discussed in them.  These were movies like old hollywood, not serious film.  They were basically an A picture upgrade in terms in budget and effects, writing and acting of the flash gordon serials.

They may not have been written to be intellectual films, but they always had depth due to their emotional depth and the conviction of their imagination and their use of mythical stuff of a sort that resonates in our subconscious. The prequels lack emotional depth, particularly the later two films, and their imagination doesn't have the same conviction. They are shallow films, the latter two horribly shallow.

As for the claim that Star Wars was always for kids, used as a justification for The Phantom Menace's bullshit... that claim fudges the truth. The original films were kids films to an extent, but they were made to work fully for adults. They were the definitive general audience films. The Phantom Menace put in a whole lot of kid-aimed stuff that seemed designed to turn off adults. The OOT is adult-friendly, the PT is not. Of course the OOT has Ewoks, but the ewoks work far better than Jar Jar Binks and the bloody video game podrace. The OOT was not exclusively kiddie, but The Phantom Menace had a lot of stuff that seemed to say "Adults, Keep Out." And the other two prequel films were silly teen films. I don't understand how anybody who's not a teen can get through that romance without severe stomach pains.

We as an older audience (i'm of course referring to us oot fans) are accused of Looking at the films through rose colored glasses.  That these films were overhyped and not as good as we remember them being if we sit down now as adults and attentively watch them and out them under the same microscope as the prequels.

The OOT stands up amazingly well. These are films that work so well they're magical. The OOT was a phenomenon that brought something to life. There is no life in the PT.

Cgi these days is the least of Hollywood's problems though it has allowed them to get lazy. Movie directing is almost a joke these days, scriptwriting is worse than it has ever been.   I very much agree with anyone who thinks mediocrity and profit are synomous with Hollywood today. Bankrupt creatively, sequels, prequels, reboots, and a slew of badly made and badly produced comic book films with an occasional gem. That being said movies have yet to stoop to the same low as television standards have, Reality tv anyone? Tv is Tits, Asses and Explosions and, sex and killing and more sex and killing.  It is often hard to find a narrative or story thread between those and the tv advertisements. Plus movies are the same too.  They have the flashy colors and cgi, and the Shaky cam and quick cuts in the editing. There are a lot of films that are cool and modern and flashy, but competely lack any decernable substance other than garbage.  Dumb entertainments and twerp cinema are the name of the game, and if you refuse to turn off your brain and enjoy yourself for 2 hours and want quality, then you can go fuck yourself.  Seems to be the unspoken feeling in tinseltown these days. Anyhow this is the way it is.  There was a golden era in sci fi and fantasy, a golden era in movies, and a golden era in the comic books and that has passed us.  The moderns can try to ape the classics all they want and fail at every turn.  The seventies and Eighties with a few exceptions were the last great era in motion pictures.  There is very little now to distinguish movies from music videos, or video games. To me movies stopped being an artform when they got rid of traditional effects, traditional animation and Stopped using film.  The few still doing so should be commended because the Lucas types out there are going to destroy it with their great modern advances that forget storytelling and craftsmanship come first. The one word that sums up todays movies is "disposable".  You watch and enjoy them for 2 hours and then forget them, if you can even sit through how awful most of them are or even keep you in your seat.  At lot of people talked about wanting to walk out of the prequels or Indiana Jones IV for instance.  I almost walked out of Star Trek nemesis and will probably walk out after paying to see the JJ trek film in disgust.

Now this I can't agree with. There have been many great films in recent times. Like Fight Club, Wonderland, Butcher Boy and Pan's Labyrinth. Nor is tv a medium marked by low quality. There is much great tv. I've never seen a movie to manage quite what the tv show The Wire has managed, for example. Furthermore, I'm not so confident in the greatness of many of the old films that are hailed as great classics. I'm not a believer in the view that great cinema is a thing of the past, of a bygone golden age. I find much to by happy about in modern film and tv. But not in modern Star Wars. I think that in certain ways the film medium has advanced over time. And the old Star wars films stand up beside the modern films, but the prequels do not.

Nor do I think cgi is necessarily bad. It's just bad when it's unconvincing or overdone, like how Lucas does it. The overuse of cgi in Indy 4 was a bloody abomination. Not the ants or the monkeys or the gophers (I was ok with those), the problem was the use of cgi for the backgrounds. Not on. Go film something real. But I love a good cgi monster done well. Which is something that was totally absent from the prequels. I don't think the use of cgi makes a film any less a work of art unless it's done badly. Lucas type cgi certainly makes a film less a work of art.

I didn't hate Trek Nemesis. It was no great film, but I've seen far worse. It was miles better the prequels. I have serious issues with Indy 4, but there's much I liked about it. Harrison Ford as Indy adds a lot and I think Shia LaBeouf is a good actor and makes a good son for Indy as well. I would have approved if the villains were more menacing, if events were menacing, if the film was less bland and didn't serve up total bullshit with their mangled aliens plot. Also, I could have done without Winstone's annoying character and I'm no fan of Cate Blanchett either.

As for the new Trek film, it's a bloody abomination. You don't take classic characters and recast them with other actors who don't fit the parts. Spock is Nimoy. Spock is not Quinto. Sylar was a pain in the butt on Heroes and now we have to the same actor doing Spock. I've seen photos of him in action playing the part that indicate he's getting it totally wrong. Meanwhile, the whole film is clearly an attempt to push Trek as some sort of teen thing. The guy they have for Kirk looks like he belongs in something like Dawson's Creek.

rcb said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

rcb said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

rcb said:

okay, take deep breaths with me...in...out...Better? now on the mark walking out of theater from episode I and not feeling the magic, that's a no brainer. of course u won't relive that agian. that is a once in a lifetime thing! you couldn't expect a repeat.

I'm not saying i hated TPM btw.

and if its that bad for you, dont bother to post anymore.

Why should he not post? He's got a perfectly valid viewpoint and he's saying stuff that needs saying. What Lucas has done to Star Wars is abomination and it needs to be criticised again and again and again. Such criticism is far more valid than people praising what Lucas has done more recently, and there's no end of such mindless worshipful praise.

As for the magic, no it wasn't a once in a lifetime thing. It happened three times with Star Wars. Each film of the old trilogy was magical. That has not been the case with the new films.

 

i'm srry i lost my temper. but you have to see where i'm coming from. its kinda annoying when people diss the PT as if it was not part of the saga. and saying he expected the same magic when walking out of TPM, is a very retorical statement.

 

Sorry, I don't see where you're coming from. The PT deserves to be dissed and it isn't part of the saga. And I don't see what's so rhetorical about saying he expected the same magic from TPM.

What Lucas did in the prequels was a betrayal of Star Wars and an insult to all of us. Those films don't fit into the same universe as the originals and as such they don't belong counted as part of the original saga. Had Lucas made the prequels properly, faithful to the spirit of the original Star Wars, then they would be part of the saga. But the ones he made aren't. What happened with the prequels was an abomination and needs to be criticised. I can understand somebody liking TPM to an extent, but I cannot understand anybody liking ROTS and AOTC. Those two films are absolute shite and soulless and don't deserve to be liked. Their shallow soullessness is disgusting. Art should have soul and feeling and humanity. Otherwise it's worthless and pointless. 

 

 its hard to deny it not being part of the saga in my opinion. there are a lot of inacuracies with it and the OT. but in general it answers the questions we all had and filled in the gaps.

 and how can u not see the its not retorical about expecting the same magic in the TPM as in ANH. ANH was a turn in movie making and how we think. You already knew what to expect, somewat, of TPM.

It's not hard to deny it being part of the same saga. The missing part of the OOT's saga is the films Lucas would have made if he'd made the prequels back in the 80s. The prequels were got are entirely different, different in mentality and different in story. Read The Secret History of Star Wars. The prequel story changed considerably before Lucas put it onscreen. The prequel story he put onscreen is not the same story he had in mind back in 1983. Those new films aren't  the missing part of the OOT's story, they're a new project with a revisionist take on Star Wars. If you want the missing part of the OOT story you need to look at Lucas's old notes. But the OOT doesn't need a prequel trilogy to support it, it does quite well on its own.

Furthermore, the prequel trilogy works by a different mentality, a totally different mindset, with different unspoken rules underpinning its universe. For example, The Phantom Menace is full of characters who are very clearly cartoon characters in every way. Jar Jar, Sebulba, Watto, Boss Nass, various podracers. Characters like that belong to a less real sort of fiction that takes its reality less seriously. Star Wars is hardly realistic, but the OOT always tried to make its non-real things seem real and make its universe seem real. That was a crucial part of what made the OOT what it was. Cartoons don't try to seem real the same way. Standard cartoon characters are part of taking a fictional reality less seriously, not believing in its reality as much. Bringing cartoon characters into Star Wars is saying that the Star Wars fictional reality is now being taken less seriously, its reality is being believed in less. Its reality is less real. That puts the prequels on a whole different level from the OOT. They exist in an alternate Star Wars fictional reality in which Bugs Bunny and Mickey Mouse (or Jar Jar) can exist alongside Palpatine. That's not the same Star Wars universe as the OOT's universe. The rules are different. With different foundation rules comes a different universe. Maybe the prequels exist in the same universe as the special edition, with its cartoonish cgi Jabba and Jedi Rocks scene, but they don't exist in the same universe as the OOT.

There are inconsistencies between the OOT films, but they are not glaring and massive. But the portrayal of Anakin as a shallow insubstantial jerk in the prequels is totally at odds with the guy he's implied to be in the OOT. That is a massive glaring difference. The character at the core of the backstory which became the PT has had a total change of personality. The Anakin of AOTC and ROTS could never have become the benevolent wise old guy full of gravitas that we see portrayed by Sebastian Shaw in ROTJ or the strong forceful individual we saw as Darth Vader in the OOT. The very heart of the story has been changed drastically there. This is a different Star Wars universe.

And yes it should have been possible to get the same magic in the prequel trilogy that we got in the first Star Wars film, because we got the same magic in Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. So no there's nothing rhetorical in what I said. The first three films are all magical. The Phantom Menace has something to it but compared to the OOT it's plastic, not magical at all. The remaining two prequel movies are as far from magical as possible. Two shallow cynical exercises in money-grubbing, with no soul.

TMBTM said:

What Lucas did in the prequels was a betrayal of Star Wars and an insult to all of us. Those films don't fit into the same universe as the originals and as such they don't belong counted as part of the original saga.

The fact is the PT were a little letdown to me for the exact opposite of what you said: I pretty much already knew all about  the main story (hell, even the final Anakin/Obi duel surrounded by lava was known for 20 years). No real surprise, appart some annoying and useless ones.

So I understand when people say that they don't like the PT and that they prefer ignoring them, but you can't say that they do not fit into the same univers. (well, yes, you can say that...but I disagree: ;) ) because it is the back story we already knew for ages, it's just the way of telling it that was (mostly) poorly done and missed good opportunities.

 

No, the PT is not the backstory we already knew for ages. It's a revisionist rewriting of that backstory. There were major changes made to that backstory before it went onscreen as the prequels. The story of the prequels is not the exact same backstory Lucas had way back. And furthermore, you can take a basic backstory and do it in totally different ways on the screen, with a different emotional makeup and the characters portrayed differently. The prequel films Lucas made are undoubtably very different that way from how they would have been if Lucas made them after ROTJ. The backstory changed, the mentality totally different... the prequels exist in a different Star Wars universe from the OOT. And remember, the prequels weren't made to be in the same universe as the OOT, they were made to be in the same universe as the special edition. 

rcb said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

rcb said:

okay, take deep breaths with me...in...out...Better? now on the mark walking out of theater from episode I and not feeling the magic, that's a no brainer. of course u won't relive that agian. that is a once in a lifetime thing! you couldn't expect a repeat.

I'm not saying i hated TPM btw.

and if its that bad for you, dont bother to post anymore.

Why should he not post? He's got a perfectly valid viewpoint and he's saying stuff that needs saying. What Lucas has done to Star Wars is abomination and it needs to be criticised again and again and again. Such criticism is far more valid than people praising what Lucas has done more recently, and there's no end of such mindless worshipful praise.

As for the magic, no it wasn't a once in a lifetime thing. It happened three times with Star Wars. Each film of the old trilogy was magical. That has not been the case with the new films.

 

i'm srry i lost my temper. but you have to see where i'm coming from. its kinda annoying when people diss the PT as if it was not part of the saga. and saying he expected the same magic when walking out of TPM, is a very retorical statement.

 

Sorry, I don't see where you're coming from. The PT deserves to be dissed and it isn't part of the saga. And I don't see what's so rhetorical about saying he expected the same magic from TPM.

What Lucas did in the prequels was a betrayal of Star Wars and an insult to all of us. Those films don't fit into the same universe as the originals and as such they don't belong counted as part of the original saga. Had Lucas made the prequels properly, faithful to the spirit of the original Star Wars, then they would be part of the saga. But the ones he made aren't. What happened with the prequels was an abomination and needs to be criticised. I can understand somebody liking TPM to an extent, but I cannot understand anybody liking ROTS and AOTC. Those two films are absolute shite and soulless and don't deserve to be liked. Their shallow soullessness is disgusting. Art should have soul and feeling and humanity. Otherwise it's worthless and pointless. 

C3PX said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

Why should he not post?...

 

Why? Because he disagrees with some peoples opinions, that is why! Because he is against, George, and the PT, and the (mostly) finished version of the OT. How can anybody go about their lives and live happily when there are people out there on the internets that disagree with them? The voices of opposition must be silenced! We cannot give up until George's honor has been defended and all tongues concede that he IS the Master Story teller of our age, the ages that have come before us, and all the ages that are yet to come!

Long live the Master Story teller! Long live his wonderful movies and television shows! Long live his great beard and his flannel shirts! Death to his enemies and opposition! Death to the incompleted versions of his films! Death to those who obsess over them and fail to see the light!

ROTFL! Good one. :)

rcb said:

okay, take deep breaths with me...in...out...Better? now on the mark walking out of theater from episode I and not feeling the magic, that's a no brainer. of course u won't relive that agian. that is a once in a lifetime thing! you couldn't expect a repeat.

I'm not saying i hated TPM btw.

and if its that bad for you, dont bother to post anymore.

Why should he not post? He's got a perfectly valid viewpoint and he's saying stuff that needs saying. What Lucas has done to Star Wars is abomination and it needs to be criticised again and again and again. Such criticism is far more valid than people praising what Lucas has done more recently, and there's no end of such mindless worshipful praise.

As for the magic, no it wasn't a once in a lifetime thing. It happened three times with Star Wars. Each film of the old trilogy was magical. That has not been the case with the new films.

skyjedi2005 said:

The prequels were always going to suck the writing was already on the wall in 1997 with the special editions.  The prequels would be made to fit the special editions and not the original trilogy as originally released.

As a concept they suck, they are tonally and thematically different.  Lack real heroes to root for, or any magic of any kind.  They also lack emotion and when you left the theater you did not feel as though you were  taking part in viewing something special or being uplifted like 1977's Star Wars.

Lucas should have moved ahead with the story after Return of the Jedi.  Still now that Star Wars has become a shit kiddy series and is basically an advertisement for a product line, and become souless and sterile and safe no longer a daring series breaking new ground.

Hear hear!

Once he'd done what he'd done in the SE you could tell he'd lost connection with Star Wars, lost sight of what Star Wars was, lost understanding of it. Once that was the case he couldn't make new Star Wars films that worked as Star Wars. And what he added in the SE was shallow and weak, which was a hint that what was to come in the prequels was going to be shallow and weak.

TPM was the best of them, the most natural and human and heartfelt of the PT and it had Liam Neeson doing a great job. But it was still a weak shallow film. The other two aren't worth the scrapings out of the bowl of a toilet. Feelingless crap. And so uninvolving. With characters you don't care about -Ewan's Kenobi was the best of them and I still didn't find myself feeling much for him. Those two films were genuinely awful. Terrible insincere unfeeling things. And all the prequels managed to simultaneously dumb down Star Wars while making it more pretentious.

skyjedi2005 said:

That untrue unfortunetely HaydenisnotVAder As Lucas has Included The clone Wars 3D cartoon in the G-canon (george lucas canon) , as well as the force unleashed game.  and the upcoming tv show.

Officially The Clone Wars and the live action show are supposed to be T canon, which is a special level of canon just below the movie stuff and above everything else. But from what Lucas said I think he just considers them canon full stop. It's been said on this forum that Force Unleashed is considered serious canon, but I've yet to see proof. By serious canon in this context I mean considered canon by Lucas in his movies-and-tv-shows canon or officially count T canon or G canon by the Holocron official definition, above normal EU canon. I've yet to see any word from Lucas that he considers Force Unleashed to be in his personal canon. In May 2008 Lucas talked of his Star Wars being the movies and tv shows. Nowhere in there did he mention Force Unleashed. Force Unleashed is a BIG project, so surely he'd mention it in his list of canon if he considered it canon. I've been provided on this board some info about them trying to fit Force Unleashed in with continuity and it being canon but I'm not convinced that's talking about making it any more than C canon, the normal EU canon level.

But whatever canon they go by is invalid anyway. Any canon that includes the SE changes and Jar Jar and Hayden Skywalker is not a valid Star Wars canon. Lucas can count whatever he likes as canon, it doesn't count because he abrogated his authority when he did what he did in the SE. His work in the SE and PT has been at odds with Star Wars. The only real canon is the OOT.

C3PX said:

The Trawn trilogy was early '90s, and yeah, it was quite good. I think there was a lot of early EU stuff that wasn't half bad. There was also a lot of it that was total crap.It was fun because it was based off of Star Wars, and gave you a way back into that universe, sometimes with stories not even involving Han, Luke, or Leia. You could take what you wanted and leave what you didn't. I'd check them out from the library, usally two or three at a time, since some were ridiculously silly, if I started reading one that was crap, I could just put it down and grab the next one. After a while most of us learned which writers were worth reading and which ones were not.

So, I myself would not condemn everything post 1983, because I have enjoyed some of it very much.

Well, the genuinely early EU, from 76-86 or so, includes stuff from the period of the films and stuff extended from that, and that has two virtues later stuff doesn't have. A) It's from the era of the real Star Wars, often picking up on the mentality of the films in a way only something from that time can do. And B) It's what we remember from way back -the nostalgia factor. Some of the stuff from back then matters to me quite a bit. But I still don't count it as real Star Wars.

The later EU includes some ok stuff, but I don't take it very seriously. But that's not screen fiction. The EU screen fiction in more recent times has been the original Clone Wars show, with its one-Jedi-takes-on-an-army lunacy and its run-on endless meaningless battle scenes. I never saw the point of that show.

bkev said:

Vader, I take it you haven't checked ou the EU.  I'd recommend the Thrawn trilogy by Timmothy Zahn; not to recent, but definitely past '83.

I've read various EU things. The Thrawn trilogy was ok, didn't make me feel strongly either way. But the EU isn't real for me. The Thrawn trilogy never felt to me like it was real Star Wars, none of these EU things do. And I was talking about what was on the screen because that's what was relevant here, that's what's most relevant to the question of what they're going to do screen fiction like. AOTC, ROTS, the original Clone Wars show... seriously didn't impress me. And if you go back in time, Ewoks, Droids, the Ewok movies were hardly up to standard. Wilfred Brimley was good in the second Ewok movie but overall the quality was seriously substandard. There hasn't been good Star Wars screen fiction since the OOT and that makes it highly unlikely that quality is suddenly going to start up in an animated show with nightmarish animation, aimed at kids, and set in the awful prequel universe with the prequel universe's pain-in-the-ass characters. And if I have to see one goddamn more modern day overdone isn't-it-cool lightsaber battle I'm going to puke.

adywan said:

It does make me laugh me how people can say something is shit before they have even seen it

 

When everything from a particular source in a particular time period is shit, then yeah you can make a pretty good bet that anything new coming from the same source in the same general period is going to be shit. Every official Star Wars screen fiction since TPM has been shit and TPM wasn't impressive either. There hasn't been decent Star Wars screen fiction put out since 1983. So it's a pretty far reach to say they're going to start with the quality now, in a kid-aimed animated show based on the awful prequels universe. That'd be like hoping a pig would shit out gold. Not going to happen.

adywan said:

I never usually judge a TV series on its pilot but this time i did and i admit i was wrong to do so. Hell just look at the original pilot for Star Trek, "the cage". that was a total piece of shit and a completely different tone than the series would become. And now that Tv series is considered a classic.

 

The Cage was certainly in the same general ballpark range of quality as the series. Pilots may be different from their show and different in general quality, but they're usually in the same general ballpark range of quality. Maybe you won't get a precise idea of what the show's like from them but you will get some idea.

Just a heads up, if I ever do see the Clone Wars show and it turns out to be total crap like I expect it to be, then I'm going to come here and do a lot of saying I told you so.

C3PX said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

Ah, but it's pushed as being part of the canon...

So? What new Star Wars thing isn't being pushed as canon these days? The Force Unleashed, Clone Wars, the PT, all Star Wars canon. Star Wars canon totally sucks. I don't even think the unaltered original trilogy is even considered canon anymore, how could it be, since events happen differently in the OT than they do in the PT.

The official Star Wars canon does totally suck. And is invalid. But it's still a serious issue. When people are claiming "This is Star Wars. This is what counts", then you're forced to take it more seriously than if it wasn't pushed as that. Even if like me you feel the official canon is invalid the very fact that it's being offically pushed and accepted by many means you have to confront it.

And it's a fraud. Pushing this stuff as real Star Wars is a fraud. And there's good reason to be angry about the fraud. The Clone Wars isn't just being pushed as a little kids show that doesn't matter -it's being pushed as real Star Wars that counts. Which means it's being pushed as something we should care about. Which means in a crucial sense it IS being pushed as for us. And seeing as it's not made for us, it being pushed as in a way for us is something we've a right to be pissed off about. Like I said, it's a fraud and I'm pissed off about the fraud.

Because it isn't intended for you. You won't get into this for the same reason you don't wake up at 6 am on Saturday mornings to watch cartoons (do kid's still do that? Or has the CN and other channels that air cartoons during the day killed the Saturday morning cartoon?). This show is not aimed at you. I think too many older SW fan are taking this show and looking at it as if it were made for them. A very exaggerated comparison, but it is like a paleontologist watching Barney and Friends for the first time, and feeling disappointed that the show's depiction of dinosours was not very accurate, and that it has very little to offer paleontologists or people truely interested in learning about dinosaurs. That is totally missing the point. Clone Wars is very clearly aimed at young kids, and for what it is it is doing its job. It doesn't have to fit into canon, or make sence, because that is not its purpose, its purpose is to amuse and entertain children. 

Ah, but it's pushed as being part of the canon, so it has to be judged by that standard. If it wasn't, if it was just this kids tv series that wasn't taken seriously as part of the canon, didn't have a big screen movie pushed as real Star Wars and was just part of the ordinary EU... then it could be treated as just a kids show with no big issues. But it IS being pushed as canon, with a big screen movie pushed as real Star Wars, so it does have to judged by that standard. The original Star Wars wasn't aimed at only kids. It was general audience. Anything that claims to be real canon Star Wars should go by that ground rule. If it's just aimed at little kids then it shouldn't be pushed as being the real thing.

And just because something's aimed at kids doesn't mean it should be dumb shallow crap. Kids aren't all morons. I gave the example of The Hobbit, a quality book that was written for kids and wasn't dumbed down or otherwise made crappy as part of making it appeal to kids. People should make quality for kids, instead of taking the lazy route and churning out crap under the assumption that it doesn't matter because they figure kids can't tell the difference.

I don't think it is very fair when people attack The Clone Wars so harshly. It is what it is. A kids TV series based off a successful but lame series of modern sci-fi films, which in turn was a spin off of some successful and well done older sci-fi films. I think some of us are just getting into the habit of attacking anything new with the name Star Wars on it, regardless of its merit. The Clone Wars is achieving what it set out to accomplish, no matter how good or how bad it does, some of us will tear it apart. Tons of good movies have silly kids shows based off of them. Where is the dissing of Star Trek: The Animated Series, Return to the Planet of the Apes, Ewoks, Droids. All those were some pretty crappy cartoons, but we have always managed to write them off as, "just for the kiddies". Why not this treatment for CW?

Simple, nobody's pushing Star Trek animated or Ewoks or Droids as serious canon. Whereas The Clone Wars IS being pushed as serious canon. When that movie came out I read multiple reviews arguing how it was real Star Wars, and in a statement in 2008 Lucas made it clear he considers the tv shows (by which I think he means this and the live action show) to be part of HIS Star Wars universe (as opposed to the EU), clearly what he considers canon. Once it's being pushed as real Star Wars canon it has to be judged by that standard. It has to live up to that standard or be held accountable. That's what's pissing people off about it. Because we're getting told this is the real thing, this is the holy writ, this is real Star Wars like the OT. A silly kids show shouldn't be pushed as being real Star Wars. If it wasn't we could let it be, but because it is we're forced to take it seriously and take it into account and we can't just dismiss it as a harmless kids show and let it be.

its purpose is to amuse and entertain children.

I think its purpose is to make money from children and turn a new generation of kids into dutiful followers of The Great Lucas.

C3PX said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

Mielr said:

GeorgeLucasIsANarcissist said:

C3PX said:

I can't speak for anybody else, but I absolutely freaken love skyjedi's posts. I think he should have his own late night talk show, because he is awesome.

 

I don't post much, but this is spot-on. Roll on skyjedi. Don't ever change.

I agree- I love Sky's posts! :-)

 

Yeah, I find his posts a breath of fresh air and he says stuff that needs saying.

 

Don't get me wrong, most of sky's posts are just him ranting about the same things over and over, more often than not when reading a discussion you can skip over every one of his posts without missing a beat. He has a lot of knowledge and often has some very interesting insights and facts to share, such as his post about the composer of the Clone Wars music a few posts ago. I can see why a lot of people get annoyed at how often he breaks out into rants, especially since they are so similar to the rant before them, but they are so damn entertaining, it is hard not to be amused by them.

He usually has some incredibly funny sarcastic remarks, or just funny comparisons. All those guys who cannot be bothered with reading the things he posts, or who have added him to their block list, are missing out on some great stuff. Though I rarely ever agree with what he says 100%, and often find him a little extreme, I would very much miss his rants if he were to stop posting them. And if he did have a late night talk show, I'd most definitely watch it every night.

 

I don't agree with everything he says either, but there's plenty he says that I do agree with, and stuff I feel needs to be said. And it's good somebody is saying that stuff with feeling. Maybe some people don't like it, but I like it. I have no problem with ranting. This is people saying things on the internet, people should be able to tolerate some ranting and criticism without getting all bent out of shape.

C3PX said:

Isn't the "movie" actually the pilot episode of the show? I thought they just decided to prep the pilot for the big screen to generate more hype, and to charge ten bucks a ticket instead of letting people see it for free. It is not like it is a movie that spawned a TV show. We had been hearing about the TV show for the longest time, the idea of putting a couple of pasted together episodes on the big screen came later. Another example of this is Battlestar Galactica (original, not the remake). Here in the states the first few episodes aired on TV just like the rest of the show, but in the UK they decided to give it a theatrical run first. Now you can go into Best Buy and by the "movie" Battlestar Galactica, advertised on its own box as something along the lines of "The movie that started it all..." which is bs, because when you look back on it, there never really was a movie, it was a TV pilot from start to finish. Just because the UK were given a TV pilot to be passed off as a movie and were made to pay for it in theaters, doesn't make it any more of a movie; it just makes it a TV pilot that was given a theatrical release. 

Clone Wars is pretty much the same thing, only this time the theatrical TV pilot was released worldwide, not just the UK. Without the "movie" you don't know the circumstances to which Ashoka became Anakin's apprentice, of course the "movie" is part of the series.

Yeah, pilot movie starting the show, that's it.

 Of course, you can't judge an entire series by its first epsiode

You can't get a full and complete picture, no, but you can get some sort of general ballpark idea.

I have only heard negative things about the theatrical feature, I have heard lots of good things about the series.

I heard good things about ROTS and look what that's like. The chances of this thing being something I'd think well of if I saw it are nil. The question, as far as I'm concerned, is just how bad it is. And the movie gives me some idea. Ok, so I'll estimate the show is a bit higher quality than the movie -still doesn't get it very far. They've lost understanding of what Star Wars is and I don't think they're likely to get it back any time soon, and certainly not in an animated show geared towards kids only, with painful animation, peddling an animated show as real Star Wars. As long as Lucas is in charge of Star Wars it's highly unlikely they'll turn out anything claiming to be Star Wars that I'll actually think well of.

I've heard people praise the theatrical feature too, which just goes to underline how people's praise for something doesn't mean it's any good.

I would have loved for there to have been something like this set in the SW universe when I was a kid, no doubt it would have been my favorite cartoon.

As a kid this thing would have pissed me off. Starting with the animation, which would have bothered me even more than it does now.

I watched a few episodes, and though it is rather juvenile for my taste, it seems fairly well done.

If something is going to be passed off as any sort of real Star Wars it shouldn't be TOO juvenile. The Ewoks in ROTJ was already pushing it and they were well done. That worked, because of the magic of the old films, but the modern sort of juvenile they pull, that doesn't work as Star Wars. Somebody needs to tell Georgie that Star Wars isn't just for kids.

And dammit, I wish people would stop treating kids as morons. Stuff doesn't have to be juvenile for kids to appreciate it. Look at The Hobbit, good stuff, works for adults. Tolkien didn't have to dumb down and majorly kiddify to make a book that became a classic for kids. 

negative1 said:

if you want to argue about semantics, then fine... but saying a movie = tv series, is false, since it was NEVER on tv, that's my point, you can watch the tv series without ever having the movie, and still 'get whats going on'.........  and my point still stands, just because you watched the 'movie' doesn't mean you've watched the tv show, which has had several episodes that are well beyond the scope of the movie, and have shown a high and consistent quality..

No, the movie is the start of the tv show, that's the reality. And it's going to have a lot in common with it. So yeah you can get a good idea of the tv show from the movie, because they're of the same cloth. Heck, I bet you can get a good idea of the show without even having seen the movie. The movie in many ways was as I expected it to be. It's made of prequel stuff, except even shallower and less faithful. If I could guess what the movie was going to be like from having read about it and seen stills and seen the prequels, then chances are I can tell a lot about the show from seeing the movie. When after all the movie and the show are just two parts of the same thing. High and consistent quality? Are you kidding? A modern Lucasfilm show that puts itself forward as real Star Wars while peddling revolting animation and prequelish nonsense? High and consistent quality is hardly likely. You just want to invalidate my view because you don't like it. Sorry, my view is valid.

yes, i knew it was GOING to be made into a tv series, and because IT WASN'T, thats why it comes down to semantics..... again, you have nothing to criticize about the current tv series, becuase you haven't watched any of the new episodes, or at least you won't admit it. that was my point. if you had, you wouldn't be complaining about the quality or tone of the 'clone wars' in the manner you did.

Semantics my ass. The movie is a sample of the show. Maybe slightly different from the rest of the show, but still a sample of it that can give me some idea. So I have plenty to criticise. Heck, I'd have plenty to criticise if I'd never seen the movie. There's a lot you can tell about this whole project without having seen any of it. As for telling me I wouldn't be complaining about the tone and quality of the show if I saw more of it... are you serious? We're talking modern Lucasfilm bullshit here. The last Star Wars screen fiction I found remotely worth watching was the Phantom Menace and the "in" style has changed since then, things have gone downhill, what professes to be Star Wars has gone yet farther from real Star Wars than TPM. I don't expect it would go back to real Star Wars when they're trying to push an animated show as the real thing, an animated show with annoying characters and revolting animation. The chances of it being quality or being properly Star Wars are nil. They don't make quality in "Star Wars" nowadays. The only question is how bad it is. Maybe the main body of the show is a bit better than the pilot movie, but it's not going to be good, it's not going to be worth me wasting my time on it, it's not going to have depth or Star Wars feeling or animation I can bear to look at. So yeah I'd be complaining, as you put it, if I saw the episodes. 

negative1 said:

thought exercise :

==================================================

[premise]

star wars trilogy ends in 1983...

 

no movies/books/comics/tv shows/games : NOTHING COMES OUT that

is related to any kind of star wars media , when 'return of the jedi' ends..

 

NO NEW VIDEO TAPES/ NO LASERDISCS / NO DVD'S/NO BLURAY

 

no plans to EVER show it again/RELEASE IT AGAIN/re-release it IN ANY FORMAT EVER.. (and no, no one can release anything

related to it either)..

 

yeah fine, you can keep everything released up until that point..books,

comics etc..

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

would this board exist?

(maybe)

 

would you even care about star wars anymore?

(possibly)

 

would you even bother complaining about the original trilogy?

[yes, you would, because at the point, all you would have to

complain about is all the mistakes/errors/problems in the original trilogies]..

 

basically re-read the threads about ANH:R and ESB:R ,

because that's all there would be to talk about, and you

eliminate half of that because the SE and PT wouldn't exist..

 

yeah, there's 'star wars' boards out there THAT ONLY TALK ABOUT
the ORIGINAL TRILOGY, and dont' care about the SE/PT/Clone wars,

(like my preservation one)... but guess what?

 

not a whole heck of a lot goes on there? (mine's on hiatus until next year)..

 

pretty exciting , right? yeah, i thought so.....

 

face it, without any new star wars material... you'd be

======================================

1) bored out of your minds

2) watching your same videos over again for the 100th time

3) fantasizing about new some new stars that would NEVER come out...

 

yeah, that's why i like living in the past so much, because i don't have to

face reality, and the present.......... and be stuck there with the bunch of

you that wish it were true..

 

later

-1

 

Even if the SE and the PT were never released and there was no new Star Wars spinoff merchandise since 83 the films would still likely be on dvd now, because so many films are, films most people have never heard of. They'd probably have a better dvd release than they do now. And I'd still be a Star Wars fan, because I love the old movies and that's all I need. No I wouldn't be complaining about the original trilogy. I'm not one of these people who has a problem with ROTJ or whatever. The old films worked perfectly, I never had anything I seriously needed to criticise in them. And what's wrong with watching the same videos or dvds again and again? Nothing that I can see. I don't see how it would be boring. It's not like we'd have to watch them non-stop. We do have other things in our lives. A board like this might exist. The OT meant a lot to a lot of people and probably would even if there wasn't stuff after 83, and there's boards for all sorts of things. There's plenty to talk about in the OT and it doesn't have to be complaining. We complain about the present state of Star Wars because there's bloody good reason to complain.

And I'm sick of people saying people are "living in the past" just because they don't like something new that's crap. New isn't always good. Change isn't always good. If the new stuff is crap then that's plenty good reason to reject it and stick with the old stuff. That isn't "living in the past", that's being reasonable. It's nothing to do with not facing reality. We face the reality that Star Wars has been screwed over. That's why we're "complaining" about it. Facing reality doesn't mean you have to be happy with the state of things. Facing reality doesn't mean you have to accept crap just because it's the in thing now. Facing reality doesn't mean you can't criticise what deserves to be criticised.

negative1 said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

skyjedi2005 said:

And you think the prequels were bad or had cringeworthy Dialogue Clone Wars was the worst piece of trash to ever come out of the star wars canon. Skyguy, Stinky and Artooie.

Don't forget "punky muffin".

"overweight glob of grease"

"nearsighted  scrap pile"

"nerf-herder"

"don't send one of your twerps"

"walking carpet"

"old fossil"

"hunk of junk"

"sorceror's ways"

"hokey religions"

"fuzzball"

"flea-bitten furball"

"laser brain"

"bantha fodder"

 

give me a break... they're all just as bad if not worse..

later

-1

 

No they're not. There's nothing wrong with them at all. Making Jabba go all cutesey is in an entirely different category.

negative1 said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

 

negative1 said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

If it's just a cartoon show then it shouldn't getting passed off as real Star Wars. And if it is getting passed off as real Star Wars then it should be judged by that standard.

 

what exactly is 'REAL' star wars?

 

later

-1

Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, in the forms they were in before the SE was made.

ok fine..just the movies.. 

But generally, the way it's been, the movies (including the PT and SE) have been what's taken seriously and the rest hasn't, so now it's a big change that an animated movie made of tv episodes is treated as if it's serious Star wars. That's the sense I was using the term "real Star Wars" in that post. I was talking about the EU versus movies divide, and this thing is being included in the movies section when it belongs in the EU section. Yes I don't consider anything from 1997 on to be real Star Wars, but in the sense I meant in that post there's a view that the movies (all of them) are real Star Wars and the Clone Wars seems to be getting included in that.

 

who says the 'rest' haven't been taken seriously? there's a lot of talk about canon in

ESB:R thread...so that's where it breaks down, what everybody thinks is their personal

'canon' compared to the variations on canon from 'George Lucas' ...

it all depends on how you look at it, its all right 'from a certain point of view'..

i'm trying to figure out why the events in the clone wars contradict the original trilogy,

if that's what the problem is...so far i haven't seen it.

later

-1

 

who says the 'rest' haven't been taken seriously?

 Oh come on, you know full well what I mean.

there's a lot of talk about canon inESB:R thread...so that's where it breaks down, what everybody thinks is their personal 'canon' compared to the variations on canon from 'George Lucas' ...

George Lucas's view of canon hasn't been valid ever since he mutilated the OT. You don't go by a guy's word on Star Wars when he's stuck cutesey-comical cgi Jabba into Mos Eisley.

i'm trying to figure out why the events in the clone wars contradict the original trilogy, if that's what the problem is...so far i haven't seen it.

The Clone Wars is an animated show. Even by a view of canon that includes the PT, animated shows don't belong in the core Star Wars canon. Droids doesn't belong in the Star Wars canon, nor does Ewoks. That's quite apart from the fact that Clone Wars is prequel-universe and the prequel universe isn't the real thing. The whole mentality of the prequel universe is at odds with the OT.

negative1 said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

negative1 said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

I saw the pilot movie and that was enough for me.

 

so have you watched the tv series or not?

 

later

-1

The Clone Wars movie IS the tv series. It's made out of episodes of the tv series and it's the start of the tv series.

 

 

that's funny, since it was NEVER actually shown on tv, do you even know your facts?

or do we have to correct you about this also? it's hard to understand you, when you

don't grasp the basics of the 'clone wars'...

obviously you havent' seen any yet,

so your criticisms are a moot point..

 

later

-1

Actually I know my facts quite well. I was not under the impression that it was shown on tv. Lucas saw some stuff from episodes of the show (which hadn't yet been aired) and he decided to make a movie out of them. So it was made from episodes of the show. And yes it's the start of the show. Just because it wasn't aired on tv doesn't mean it isn't the start of the show. So yes it is the tv series. 

As you can see, I grasp the basics quite well. Do you? After all, your post implies you misunderstood what I said about the movie coming from the tv series, which implies you were not aware that it was made from the tv episodes. Which is pretty basic knowledge.

My criticisms are not a moot point, because I have seen the movie which is the beginning of the tv series.

negative1 said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

I saw the pilot movie and that was enough for me.

 

so have you watched the tv series or not?

 

later

-1

The Clone Wars movie IS the tv series. It's made out of episodes of the tv series and it's the start of the tv series.

negative1 said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

If it's just a cartoon show then it shouldn't getting passed off as real Star Wars. And if it is getting passed off as real Star Wars then it should be judged by that standard.

 

what exactly is 'REAL' star wars?

 

later

-1

Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, in the forms they were in before the SE was made. But generally, the way it's been, the movies (including the PT and SE) have been what's taken seriously and the rest hasn't, so now it's a big change that an animated movie made of tv episodes is treated as if it's serious Star wars. That's the sense I was using the term "real Star Wars" in that post. I was talking about the EU versus movies divide, and this thing is being included in the movies section when it belongs in the EU section. Yes I don't consider anything from 1997 on to be real Star Wars, but in the sense I meant in that post there's a view that the movies (all of them) are real Star Wars and the Clone Wars seems to be getting included in that.

skyjedi2005 said:

And you think the prequels were bad or had cringeworthy Dialogue Clone Wars was the worst piece of trash to ever come out of the star wars canon.  Skyguy, Stinky and Artooie.

Don't forget "punky muffin".

Moth3r said:

The term is "nuke the fridge". Same meaning as "jump the shark", but for movies instead of TV shows. It will be obvious to most of you where it comes from.

When did Star Wars nuke the fridge? Ewoks? Jar Jar? Midichlorians? This forum needs the option to create a poll!

The Ewoks (in ROTJ) weren't great but they were ok. Star Wars still held it together then. ROTJ was a cool film. I love that film. The fridge got nuked with the 1997 SE cutesey-comical cgi Jabba. That's the turning point. Really, we should have all seen the writing on the wall then and realized the sort of thing that was coming, but I don't think people could dream Lucas was going to screw up the prequels as bad as he did.

Akwat Kbrana said:

When it really made me livid, however, was in 2004 when the prequel crap started invading the OT. That's just unforgivable.

Yeah, sticking the crap from the shitty new films into the great old ones that should never have been touched at all, least of all made to fit the prequels. Sebastian Shaw replaced with Hayden is one of the worst things ever done to Star Wars, and Jason Wingreen was great as Boba Fett, he didn't need to be replaced with a lacklustre performance from Morrison. And that Gungan stuck into ROTJ seems to me to be a deliberate giving the finger to the fans, considering George knows how much the fans hated Jar Jar.