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Trooperman

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15-Feb-2005
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15-Jun-2015
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Post
#173852
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/173852/action/topic#173852
Time
I think one of the big problem with the pod race (okay, *A* big problem with the pod race) is that it's the first time in the series when Anakin does anything, and he's fanastically successful at it. The character's got everything he needs right from the beginning. So, what if we make it so he's not fantastically successful at pod racing. He's good, yes, but at some point he gets in over his head, and Qui-Gon has to bail him out. There's the conflict. He can't succeed without Qui-Gon's help. Then, during the final battle, Anakin gets in over his head again. Qui-Gon guides him through it for a while, but then Qui-Gon gets stabbed. Without Qui-Gon's help, Anakin crashes. Thus, the climactic moment features Anakin discovering how to succeed on his own, drawing on the force to destroy the Federation ship. If you wanted to, you might be able to even show him drawing on the dark side, setting up the key conflict of the prequels: Anakin's willingness to draw on the dark side when he finds himself in trouble.

I like this line of thought.

A close up of Qui-Gon looking serious, while the force theme plays, followed by Anakin and Sebulba's pods seperating in slow motion, and I think you'd see Qui-Gon using the Force to seperate the pods.

I think we want to try to avoid using slow-motion in SW, aside from dreams and visions. We have a little bit of slow-motion in the SOTDS, and we have slow motion in Luke's vision in the cave (ESB). But in the SW, slow-motion is never used in action pieces. This was one thing that irked me about the style of LOTR. Just wanted to point that out; whatever we change, and however effective it might be, we want to keep it in the same idiom.

Regarding the podrace in general: Although it's a neat idea to have the force theme and Qui-Gon talking to Anakin during the race, etc., we also have to remember that this is the first race or chase we have had in SW. We've never seen Yavin, the AT-AT's on Hoth, the speeder chase in ROTJ, etc. Therefore, it should not be treated as "same old, same old" as it is in the original. It should be fresh and interesting, with some brilliant action music to go with it. Stylistically, I really wish the alien racers weren't so ridiculous looking, but you can't really do anything besides cutting out the worst ones.

Anakin's telepathy to Padme: I think it's all in the execution. It might be a very good idea. However, we shouldn't do this more than once. We have to establish that Anakin is weaker in Episode I, so we have something to contrast with for SOTDS.

Also, I'm upset to hear that the special effects guy has decided to withdraw from the process. Did he ever read this article?: 2001 article

George Lucas: "The Internet is a new medium, it's all about doing things like that."

Jeanne Cole of Lucasfilm: "Go be creative."

It's too bad, because I was just going to throw out the following: If it's possible to put Christopher Lee into the Jedi Council, would it be possible to put Peter Cushing into the Senate, beside Palpatine? THAT would be an amazing thing.

Oh, and yes...the announcer is absolutely ridiculous and must go. If you want another crazy idea, maybe one of the fans or editors could blue-screen themselves in as the new announcer....

No, forget that. I like where you guys are going, though. I'll have more to say when I begin looking at how this is being executed. It looks good so far.

-TM
Post
#173851
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/173851/action/topic#173851
Time
It may find it's way to myspleen once it's finished, but that's still a long way off, right Trooperman?

Possibly I won't distribute this when I'm done, but a few copies may somehow "slip out", similiar to MF's edits. And after that point, it's not my fault if it's widely distributed

Here's an updated clip of the speeder chase for Marvolo and others: Chase

I have purposely removed the new dialogue recordings for this.
Post
#172870
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/172870/action/topic#172870
Time
Hi, everyone. I just wanted to check in....

I'm glad people liked those video previews. Thank you for your feedback. You haven’t even begun to see the Coruscant sequence, though From beginning to end, I am absolutely thrilled with the sound effects, the flow of the music, the synchronization, and the excitement. I never get sick of watching this sequence. I have pretty much completed Zam’s first appearance up to the Anakin/Obi-Wan talk in front of the nightclub. I’m still trying to figure out how to separate Obi-Wan’s dialogue from the trailer music in the cut exchange. One thing I’ve added is this- right before Anakin and Obi-Wan do the nosedive in the chase with Zam, Anakin says, “I hope you like flying.” After the chase (and the Asteroid Field theme from TESB), Obi-Wan says, “I don’t mind flying, but what you’re doing is suicide.” Rather than a lengthy exchange with a bad quip at the end (You know I don’t like it when you do that. Sorry master, I forgot you don’t like flying. I don’t mind…etc.) , we have the chase in between the comments. It seems more breathless and exciting. I’ve also recut the action during the last part of the chase, sometimes using horizontal flips and other tricks, so that the speeder is in the upright position necessary to use the footage of Obi-Wan. It works very well. However, I want to preserve the surprise at this point and not reveal any more of that.

Thank you for the recording, Sluggo. I actually had recordings of the Wilhelm: takes 1, 3, and 4. I created a “female Wilhelm” simply by speeding them up and thus raising the pitch. I love the effect because it gives the scene a much more brutal quality, along with Anakin’s action. It shows that Anakin is out to get her. I also love the fact that right before Anakin jumps, she takes off her mask and smiles in boredom. Anakin jumps, she looks up, and there he is pulling out his lightsaber. She hadn’t counted on that!

I actually hadn’t intended for the Raiders music to play during the questioning scene- it was a temp track until I make the new recording for that scene. However, it does work well dramatically. I’ll have to think about this.

“Sifo-Dyas/Qui-Gon: The logistics of this will have to be hammered out, but if you're open to the idea I hope we can find a way of getting it done. This will tie into the extended ending with Sidious and Dooku, as that's where an explanation will be needed.”

That’s the issue. I can’t finalize the Lama-Su dialogue until I figure out what the plan is for the possible extended ending. This will probably depend on what is being done on Ep. I. In the meantime, I have plenty of other things to work on

“The Lama-Su dialogue is good. I don't know if you'd had a chance yet but I'd again suggest checking out "The Island" to see if there's anything you can use on the Obi-Wan end of the cloning discussion.”

I still need to do that….

The sunset funeral: I really love the idea myself. However, I’m worried that if I do it myself, it could come out sub par, as I’m not that great at the compositing. I do hope this is possible, though.

My dilemma with the elevator scene and the bedroom scene is that the concepts are good, the plot embellishment is good, and removing them leaves something to be desired between the characters. But the overall design, the way they were shot, and the delivery is just awful. Not just Anakin (which I can fix), but Obi-Wan and Padme as well. There isn’t even a full-screen version of the bedroom scene that I can play with. If there is a way to bring these up to the rest of the movie, I will find a way. Otherwise, I just cringe through these scenes and even if they wind up in the release cut, I’d probably just cut them for myself.

Right now, I’m trying to make some headway on the Kamino material. Just wanted to check in,

-TM
Post
#170236
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170236/action/topic#170236
Time
Here is part of the Coruscant chase: Chase

Here's the original for your reference: original

It comes with the usual disclaimer (the sound effects have not been finalized or put into stereo yet, and I haven't replace Anakin's voice for this clip).

Here's an example of how the zoom can be used on the video. The zoom is very effective. The actual content and sound is different from what I'll change it to, but I just wanted to give you an example:
Zoom

And here's my crazy idea (which may or may not work) to change the funeral or the Anakin/Padme receive message scene into a sunset scene: sky

As you can see, I actually decided to end the Obi-Wan scene with a shot of the Geonosian creeping out, as the music builds. You know Obi-Wan's in trouble by the time we cut away. I actually think this increases the tension in the tunnel later on, because you know that these bugs made short work of Obi-Wan previously. Otherwise, you don't know how Obi-Wan was captured. Then, you realize that they're worse than stormtroopers in the droid factory. They fly around with guns but they never even get an opportunity to use them.
Post
#170234
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170234/action/topic#170234
Time
Actually, putting Dooku into the funeral really would be perfect. If that were at all possible, that's what I would choose. I'm just a little confused of the logistics of a new speaking role in the Council. But if it works, that's fantastic.

Also know that I'm working on getting hold of the full-screen DVD now. When that happens, I'll be able to upload all the CFSS shots you need in anamorphic widescreen (once these are decided upon).

And Dan, the plan is to....

-Redub the Nemoidians, Jar-Jar, Boss Nass and so on with new human voice actors. They're subtitled.
-Cropping and recoloring to improve cinematography
-Redone soundtrack
-MTH and others are working on the script, InfoDroid's doing the bulk of the work, and I'm doing a final pass before release to ensure consistency.
Post
#170133
Topic
Info: Master Edition - the website for future Star Wars DVD changes
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170133/action/topic#170133
Time
Hi! I'm working on a project called "Shroud of the Dark Side", which will fit into a new fan-created PT trilogy. Among other things, Anakin and Lama-Su are being redubbed with different lines and actors. I was browsing your site, and I read your "Last Mandalorian" idea for Lama-Su. This is quite useful for me because I was in the middle of writing Lama-Su's dialogue. Thanks a lot for that idea! I've using that idea for the Lama-Su lines in "Shroud of the Dark Side." If you'd like some possible credit, please PM me with your name.

Thanks!
Post
#170132
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170132/action/topic#170132
Time
I'm completely floored at the work you've put into this in such a short time, ID. You are so dedicated and this movie completely belongs to you, MTH, Jeff Vitkuske, and all the others who are going to make this the greatest Star Wars fan achievement to hit the screen. And compositing Dooku into the Jedi Council? If it looks realistic, then that's absolutely fascinating.

I'm so pleased to see everyone working together to turn out a product better than what I would have done myself, and two years earlier to top it. I'm sure you know that collaboration and group discussions have always been a huge part of my plans for this PT trilogy. I am absolutely thrilled.

Thank you so much.
Post
#170128
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170128/action/topic#170128
Time
I'm sorry for the lack of an update. Thank you for your breakdown, CC!

A noble idea, but futile when it comes down to it. It's impossible to remove in every shot, and Obi-Wan's will br prominent in Episode I as well. So I would say don't concern yourself too much with this.

I will avoid doing this if the framing suffers at all. It's just an image thing. Can you picture Luke or Han Solo with a ponytail? It's a personal distraction to me to be reminded of this in every shot, and in some cases it's quite easy to crop it out.


Conference Room Scene Suggestion:
(This is a bit different from yours. Notice Padme does not ask "Do you have any idea who's behind this attack," because Mace's answer would be total BS. Don't ask, don't tell.)
EXT. Chancellor's office - Day
INT. Chancellor's office - Continuous
Ki-Adi-Mundi: He is a political idealist, not a murderer.
Mace: You know Dooku was once a jedi. He couldn't assassinate anyone.
Palpatine: But more and more star systems are joining the seperatists. I don't know how much longer I can hold off...
Palpatine: ...I don't know how much longer I can...
Mace: If they do break away...
Palpatine: My negotiations will not fail.
Mace: If they do, you must realize that there aren't enough Jedi to protect the Republic. We're keepers of the peace not soldiers.
Palpatine: Master Yoda, do you really think it will come to war?
Yoda: The dark side clouds everything. Impossible to see, the future is.
Rodian: The loyalist committee has arrived, Chancellor. They await your convenience.
Palpatine: Send them in.
Yoda: Senator Amidala. In grave danger, you are.
Palpatine: Master Jedi, may I suggest the senator be placed under the protection of your graces.
Padme: If I may comment, I don't believe the situation...
Palpatine:...is that serious? Oh but I do [your majesty].
(Rest of scene as you laid out).

Very good tweaks to this- this is in my script now.

Deleting the elevator scene is excellent. That of course brings us to the character of Jar-Jar. I don't think any of us have a clear idea of what we want to do with his character at this point.

That's the whole issue- Jar-Jar in SOTDS is really dependent on what is possible for Ep. I. That's why I'm so happy and thrilled that InfoDroid is doing Episode I at the same time so that everything works continuity-wise.

We've already discussed the Ceti Alpha V Eel. It's a good concept, but if it won't blend in seemlessly I say we're best without it.

I have no problem with posting my revised version so that you can see if it is indeed seamless. I guess the issue is that it doesn't move as smoothly in the close-up as in all the other (CG) shots.

If at all possible I'd really like to include "I've heard this lesson before," "You haven't learned anything Anakin."

So would I. However, I'll have to find a way to extract Obi-Wan's line from the trailer-without the background music. Anakin obviously isn't an issue. But if worst comes to worst, I could always go with the extremely short "Next time, try not to lose it." "I try, master." After all, they're trying to catch the assassin, not bicker in front of the club.

I see no problem with Zam's reference to "bounty hunter" and think it should remain. Those of Jango's profession are referred to as such in ESB.

OK- this was never a personal problem for me, but I did it after reading this complaint on the "top _ reasons to hate Ep. II" list.

Missing Kamino Scene Suggestion:
(Entire library scene)
Jocosta Nu: If an item does not appear in our records, it does not exist!
She walks off, Obi-Wan stares at computer.
Wide shot of Obi-Wan sitting at computer, Yoda (V.O.): The data must have been erased.
CUT to end of Younglings scene, continuing conversation.
Obi-Wan: But Master Yoda who could have erased information from the archives? That's impossible, isn't it?
Yoda: Dangerous and disturbing this puzzle is. Only a Jedi could have erased those files. But who and why, harder to answer. Meditate on this, I will. May the Force be with you.
(I don't see why you altered the end dialogue the way you did. The only problem I could see would be "only a Jedi..." but we're inferring it's Dooku so that won't be a problem. Also w/out that "who and why" don't make any sense. So I say leave the dialogue there as-is).


Good ideas- the only thing I have reservations about is using too much of the dialogue overlap from one scene to another. It seems like a more modern technique. The removal of the files was another "Top _ reasons to hate Ep. II" item. His complaint was that Yoda puts this info out without explaining why it would take a Jedi to erase the files. Why not just a good computer hacker? I don't really care one way or the other.

Everthing regarding the Coruscant chase sounds great. I look forward to your music choices as well.

Thank you- I'll have a lot more to say about the chase later on...


I still think replacing "Sypho-Dias" with "Qui-Gon" would be a neat way to do things if appropriate readings by McGregor could be found. Then at the end of the film it could be inferred that Dooku ordered the clones in his former apprentice's name. Too complicated? Maybe. But much more intriguing than the current strategy.

Especially since Lama-Su is being redone anyway. That's very interesting. It makes a little less sense, but it is definitely making more sense. Speaking of Lama-Su, I was browsing through that "Master Edition" website and actually found some very good ideas for Lama-Su dialogue. I've used the basic ideas...

Lama-Su: This army is for the Republic. Master Syfo-Dyas/Qui-Gon has informed us of everything, Master Kenobi, so there is no need for discretion.

-------------
Lama-Su: Oh, we keep him here. We required new samples of blood for the cloning. As Fett is one of the last remaining Mandalorians in the galaxy, he was an ideal host.

Obi-Wan: Curious.

Lama-Su: Yes...he has extraordinary physical strength and stamina, even for a Madalorian. A wise choice for the operation.



Soon, I will have finalized the dialogue and Nanner Split can begin the ADR.

Yes, cut the hair-combing scene in III and utilize the dialogue for the balcony/fireplace scene.

You mean the music? Absolutely.


Nute Gunray: we need to establish what exactly we're doing with this character. Is he going to die in I? I'm still not convinced of the logistics of that. That will obviously have a major impact on where we go in II with either him or his brother Carl.

I'm not sure. I have to say that if it would work, the idea of killing him off in I and his brother trying to avenge him in II/III is very interesting, particularly since I've cut the scene with Queen Jamilla in SOTDS. But I'll leave this to InfoDroid- it won't affect me as much one way or the other.


Voice of Qui-Gon: The repeated clip of "Anakin!" is very obvious. Either plug in a different, more subdued reading in the place on the fist one, or just cut it down to one "Anakin!" As for the "No!", in Narnia the Beaver yells "No!" and although it's not Neeson I couldn't help but think how much it sounded like him. That's the best source for an alternate "No!" here I've heard. It would be a shame to have to wait until an official DVD to utilixe it or any of the other great dialogue Neeson has as Aslan...

Unfortunately, unless there's no music or other extra noise on the track at that time, we probably wouldn't have access to a center speaker track from the 5.1 until the DVD.

I think the order of Padme's family scene should be: Arrival, Dinner, Kitchen, Room. Maybe even delete the room scene all together. Portman's delivery is especially flat there, and there's no real appeal to the scene. The "you die if you're unable to adapt" message of course, but still I think it might be best if it was jettisoned. Also putting it before the dinner scene makes little sense as that's when they first talk to the family (at dinner). Surely they would have done so previously on the way to her room. I hope I'm making sense.

That does make sense. I actually never loved this scene anyway- it seems very forced. I can do my best with that in the ADR, but this is also going to be cut down a bit because we cut to the dinner scene right afterwards. But I do think if it's included at all, it should come before the dinner scene.

Thank you very much, CC! That was a great help and much appreciated.

The elevator scene is a tough one.

I personally don't have a problem with it, in fact I thought it was one of the better scenes between Ewan and Hayden. We don't see much of their "Friendship" and this scene really tries and I think suceeds in letting us know they are in fact friends. By cutting this, what other scenes really show this -"and he was a good friend". Everything else is pretty much teacher and student.

I agree. I also know about the false beard added when this was filmed in post. I realize why it was filmed (that's the tough part); to establish Obi-Wan and Anakin as having a good relationship. However, in thinking about it, I remembered that a main point of this movie was that Anakin is irritated at Obi-Wan from the very beginning. He won't let Anakin go back to Tatooine ever again. He knows his mother is in pain and this irritates him. Therefore, the humour and the "buddies" tone doesn't really work anymore with the new scenario. Also, I used one of Obi-Wan's lines from that scene in the following scene that I am keeping.

Thank you though! I'd love to hear more from you...

=============================

I just want to say how floored I still am that InfoDroid has audio dub tracks for all of the Nemoidians already! I feel badly because I'm not keeping up with his insansely wonderful pace. But things are moving. One of the greatest things I've discovered is that I have the capability not only to do zooms at any speed on a static image, but on moving video as well. This is almost as good as directing the movie. I can redo the compositions however I'd like, zoom in or zoom out for dramatic effect, alter the lighting and the colors...it's absolutely wonderful. When I started, I had no idea that I'd be able to do this type of thing so easily and with so much detail.

Also, I'm experimenting with a bit of compositing chroma-key work...and it may be possible to make the "Anakin/Padme receive message on Tatooine scene" into a sunset scene by replacing the blue sky and adjusting the colors appropriately. I'll keep you posted on that as well...

And finally, work is still continuing on the Coruscant sequence of scenes. Color work, music work, and sound effect work. Here's a little example:

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/4357/ship2a5az.jpg
http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/8119/ship2b2tv.jpg

I have also made a fascinating (to me, anyway) change to the scene, which as always began as an experiment. When I got done, I had...

Anakin: If you'll pardon me...

Anakin jumps onto Zam's speeder below. No free fall. He zooms into the distance.

Obi-Wan: I hate it when he does this.

Anakin pulls out his saber immediately, getting a grip on the handle. CUT to Zam, who looks up in fear and shrieks! (my sped up female Wilhelm scream). I love this because this is a classic thing where you don't know what she's frightened about until you see the next shot. Anakin ignites the saber and stabs it into the cockpit, as the music erupts. We hear the saber, the sparks, and some more fainting screaming as well.

I changed this for many reasons. One is because I felt like we were losing momentum and dragging things out too much with all the scrambling on the ship. Second, because even with the color changes, the CG still looked incredibly bad, which is unusual. Thirdly, because this is the first time we see Anakin in action against a set foe. Particularly, the person that’s trying to kill Padme. The one that Anakin desperately wants to kill. So he says, “Pardon me,” jumps onto her ship, pulls out his saber, and shatters the cockpit as she screams. Absolutely no mercy or fooling around. Watching it all with the music, it really feels like classic SW. You don’t mess around with the future Darth Vader.

I can't wait until I'm finally done with this. One big problem has been that what started out as a slightly smaller project has extended into a huge reworking of every aspect of the film. It's incredibly time-consuming, and I only hope that mine will be finished in as timely a manner as Ep. I. But once it's done and viewed alongside InfoDroid's Ep. I, I honestly think that fans will be slack-jawed watching these for the first time. Maybe we could even get Lucas or McCallum to watch! They watched the Phantom Edit, after all. I will post some video clips as soon as I get to a PC with high-speed Internet.

Until then!

-TM
Post
#168331
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/168331/action/topic#168331
Time
Hi everyone! I am currently targeting the whole set of Corsuscant chase scenes and plan to have the whole sequence complete before long. This includes all cuts, dubbing, sound effects, music, and the new color scheme. Looking at what has been done so far, I’m very excited about the finished product.


“I know what it's like to have something sound good in text, but not work in the editing. If the scene above is too short, so be it. I thought it kind of had length since it stretches right off the back of the "handing power to Jar jar" scene. It is a romantic beat (as reduced here -- seeing Padme recognize for the first time that Anakin is more than taller-- he's wiser too) -- I think I wanted to suggest keeping this since we could probably use all the romantic beats that reveal themselves.

Glad to see you pop up now and again! We're counting on you for not only SOTD, but as you suggested, for a quality control pass on the Ep I edit.

I'll post final thoughts when I finish your notes.”


Great! Thank you. I will not let you folks down, that’s for sure. Work is really going slowly but very well on my end lately. I look forward to your comments.

“I've read over your notes, very interesting and I'll be sure to put together an organized response when I get the time.”

And your comments! Thanks. Thank you as well, Twister. I didn’t realize I had that line wrong- I’ll check it out.

“For now though, I've been wondering how do you change the key of all those music tracks? I assume it's with some type of music orchestration program but I could be way off. Such knowledge would be beneficial to us over at Starkiller Ranch.”

This is going to sound overly simple, but I don't need an orchestration program for this- I just raise or lower the pitch using SoundForge. I’ve done this both by simply speeding up or slowing down the audio, or by using a tool they have to raise or lower pitch and still preserve the duration (you have to specify, though). The latter usually works best with some post-processing afterwards, such as a subtle echo, because otherwise the track tends to sound strange. Or, you could do a combination of both those methods (as I did with “Asteroid Chase” in the Coruscant chase). I started out by preserving the duration, then for the main section I switched seamlessly to a sped up version (the quality of which is better anyway). The beauty is that it’s all in the same key.

More later!

-TM
Post
#167702
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/167702/action/topic#167702
Time
By the way, I know you guys are going for titling this Star Wars. Although I understand your reasoning for it, I don't think that it makes a whole lot of sense when we are purposefully making this Pt. 1 of a saga. It's almost as if trying to fool people into thinking it was the first one to come out, and then all the sequels came after it.

Actually, my favorite title for Episode I was the one that MagnoliaFan took: Balance of the Force. But this presented two problems: Confusion with MF's "Balance", and also the fact that we now have extreme redundancy in the titles:

Balance of the Force
Shroud of the Dark Side
Revenge of the Sith

Great idea regarding using footage from other films (Lawrence of Arabia, maybe?) as establishing shots of the desert. That was my original intention anyway. And I love this new script so far, particularly the last bit. When I get time, I'll analyze it and give you more in-depth thoughts and my ideas...
Post
#167276
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/167276/action/topic#167276
Time
Hi everyone- Happy New Year! This is the year that "Shroud of the Dark Side" comes out. Is it true that over 3000 people have viewed this thread? Or is it just the same people visiting over and over?

It seems as though you're becoming increasingly isolated in that distant, locked tower you call an editing room.

You don't know how badly I feel that I haven't been contributing to the forum lately. I've just been trying to prioritize what I need to do (plus it's the holidays and I did some traveling). The good news is that...

-I now have new microphones and a very high quality system for digital recording. I've started on the ADR already.
-I found the perfect spot for "I have a bad feeling about this." Recorded it and mixed it.
-Recorded "I'm not afraid to die...but I can never lose you again." Having trouble incorporating it into the scene, though.
-Started doing ADR on the picnic scene. Trying to find a way to edit it so that Anakin teases her about the dictatorship and then Padme jumps on Anakin and they roll around from there. This would be a deviation from original plan.
-I hope you aren't removing "Anakin's Theme" from Ep. I; I found the perfect place for the full-blown rendition- at the funeral. "I won't fail you again." Anakin rises and the theme plays- very powerful.
-Working hard on the whole Coruscant sequence; I'm using "Asteroid Chase" from ESB (different arrangement) and "The Mine Car Chase". I don't have an uncompressed version of "Mine Car", though. Redid the colors and am building the sound effects track.
-Still need to download HD Blade Runner footage somehow.
-I've added many little touches here and there, many breakthroughs I'm forgetting. One is after Obi-Wan chops Zam's arm off, the crowd is surprised; then they start laughing.
-I'im also working hard on the cinematography now, and on improving the compositions of the shots- to great effect. I'll try to posts some examples in the future.

Please know, though, that work is certainly continuing on my end. There are some things I need to know before I complete certain things, however. Such as what you'll be doing score-wise for Episode I (so I can have continuity), the voices for the Nemoidians, Jar-Jar, and the battle droids, and so on. Nute Gunray's whole agenda I need to know. MF recently posted about having acquired several obscure foreign language tracks for the entire PT- I think this is very interesting and possibly worth waiting on.

Please continue to comment on my notes, though.

"I am in charge here."

Good idea! I'll see if I can incorporate it.

Regarding Dooku's yellow eyes- I don't have the knowledge or tools to do that at the moment.

"Question: You often have competing versions of the same scene clipped together -- how do we know which one you're going with?"

Sorry...it's either because I've decided on one (but didn't go back to specifiy) or I simply haven't decided yet.

"P:I do not like this idea of hiding
A: Sometimes we must let go of our pride and do what is requested of us
P: Anakin, you’ve grown up"

Well, I was having second thoughts on this; you had made me see earlier how poor the lines and the performances are in this scene. My main concern would be that it seems to be a little bit short. I'll try it, though- either way, I'm going with a hard cut out of this scene to the departure scene, simply because of its brevity.

Thank you SO much for your patience- I don't have time to post in the "starkiller" thread now, but know that I appreciate everything you're doing there as well. May the force be with you!

-TM
Post
#165052
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/165052/action/topic#165052
Time
Hello everyone! This is Trooperman, and in case you don’t know, I’m responsible for working on Episodes II and III in this new series of Star Wars films. Episode II is currently in production, and it is entitled “Shroud of the Dark Side” (you can read about it here: ). However, InfoDroid and several others made the very generous offer to edit Episode I instead of or in conjunction with me. From the test scene I have seen with the new dialogue for the Nemoidians, InfoDroid is more than qualified to do this. I LOVE that new dialogue- if it is confirmed that this will be the source, I will need to see about working it into SOTDS. Or perhaps InfoDroid could do Gunray’s lines for Ep. II as well. Anyhow, I like this thing very much; very creative use of Darth Maul instead of Darth Sidious in the close-ups. Unfortunately, that was the only clip I had time to download (the “version 2” Nemoidian/Darth Maul scene).

One concern that I do have is the use of the name “Darth Grievous” throughout Episode I. I much prefer “Darth Maul”- it’s so much better aesthetically that it’d almost be worth it to me to just leave General Grievous as is in Episode III.

The only other concern I had was that the Nemoidian dialogue was great, until I heard one of them say, “Allah”. Even if I was the only one who heard it, it was kind of distracting (I understand why it slipped in, though). Could you remove it? And by the way, when it comes time to write the subtitles, I would very much like a chance to make suggestions/polish before finalization.

THANK YOU, whichever of you listed all that Christopher Lee dialogue. It’s very much appreciated. I’ve also seen Narnia- and I just jumped when Aslan made a terrifically ambiguous comment about the “prophecy”. This would fit right in.

I’m also very pleased that you’ve decided to go with my plan to title this film “Star Wars”. I’m not as happy about the omission of the prologue. Thinking back, I didn’t really care about having a LOTR style narrator and accompanying video. Even a series of blue sentences (in the same font as “A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away) that fade in and out would be very nice. We could have eerie music- or just fade the very brief and succinctly worded cards in and out. Kind of like the beginning of “2010”. I just think we need something for the beginning of everything, telling us about a war between the Jedi and the Sith in which the Sith were completely wiped out. “But there were whispers ever afterwards that the Sith had survived…”. Fade to black. “STAR WARS” logo appears, with familiar music.

Perhaps this could be handled with seamless branching technology? A choice to watch it or not?

MTH in particular- GREAT conceptual ideas and great bits of script you’ve posted. I especially like the new Boss Nass. How intelligent and wise he is now! The only issue is the cartoonish imagery, which I suppose is cured by taking the eyes off of the picture and onto the subtitles.

“I've volunteered to do the editing on this project, as long as you guys (MTH and CC) take the responsibility of making this into your TPM dream-project. Going through the whole movie by committee is not going to work. But, if you guys (MTH and CC) can write the script and direct me where you want it go, and we can iron out any controversies as we go along, then I'm ready to start knocking this puppy out.”

This sounds great! I’ll continue to follow this thread- however, I’m not going to be able to give consistent feedback and ideas on this, as I don’t have a clear picture in my head of what Episode I should be like. It’s such a flawed film, but there are so many interesting ideas to fix it. I liked MF’s approach to Jar-Jar; cocky and arrogant. However, I also think that some charm and wit is in order for his character, along with some British or Australian type of subtitles. That’s my picture of Jar-Jar (and the alien voice certainly needs to sound more normal in pitch). As far as the imagery- I would REALLY think to yourself with every shot- how is the cinematography? Is this classic filmmaking? Are these good compositions? Are the colors ridiculous, does the CG look like a cartoon, and are the colors oversaturated? That’s one big issue I have with this movie, particularly with the end battle. I don’t think they could have made the imagery more phony. We need realistic and muted colors, better and more dramatic lighting, impact flashes and lighting fluctuations during the battle, etc.

I’m not sure how you’d feel about this, but perhaps when InfoDroid and whoever else is helping completes this movie, I could get hold of a copy before release and edit it to my own liking before it is released. Depending on how it is, these may be very small and subtle changes. Of course I don’t want to butcher any of InfoDroid’s work, or take away any of the credit or praise that is rightfully his for doing this film, but I really think the film might benefit if I was able to edit it based off of InfoDroid’s cut (and of course in keeping with everyone’s suggestions). I think it might also provide even more stylistic consistency throughout this new PT, if I was physically involved at the end like this. After I was done, InfoDroid would get a copy of the revised movie, and he could keep or lose any changes that he wanted before the release. There’s just something about actually sitting down and editing the film yourself that you can’t do through the forum suggestions or the script. Of course, this would mean three cuts for the archive: InfoDroid’s original cut, Trooperman’s revised cut, and InfoDroid’s revised cut. Only the revised cut would be put on DVD for the general public. Just an idea- maybe a desirable one and maybe not… I just realize that this project is a lot more difficult to produce than SOTDS because with the latter, I came in with a plan, and it was more geared towards making suggestions to an editor who already knew what direction he was going in, rather than a system where the creators, visionaries and the editors are two different entities. Granted, so many things in SOTDS were influenced by the likes of MTH, CC, InfoDroid, Twister, and so many others; but I guess the difference is that I already had the concept and the plan.

I can try to share with everyone the specifics of using the full-screen DVD for anamorphic widescreen shots, but it generally just involves an anamorphic math calculation, making the choice of what part of the full-screen frame you want, and sometimes, a bit of sharpening to counter the softness sometimes apparent using the method. I think the advantages in storytelling and cinematography far outweigh the technical issues.

“The best 20% can be preserved, and the rest will have to be dusted off and prettied up... And turned into a classic.”

YES- and this is the most important to me. I’ve realized that to some people, believability in the PT is a big thing. To some, it’s the storyline. To some, it’s the excitement of adding new scenes, or changing lines, or what have you. To me, it’s the overall aesthetics, the cinematography, and the music that is most important. When I’m editing, this is first and foremost on my mind. Occasionally, I will make a decision to keep a beat, or to cut something out, not because it makes a lot of sense, but because it is dramatically effective. There are many, many things in these prequels where people might ask, “Why did you change this? There was nothing wrong with the way it was before.” There may not have been anything wrong with it before, but why settle for mediocrity when you can make it breathtaking, exhilarating…classic?

I’m off on a tangent. I will try to comment on some more specifics later. I still don’t know how a dream will advance the story any. If anything, it would seem to be a break stylewise from SW, especially for a stand-alone movie like the original. Yes, I know it will be done in SOTDS and in Ep. III, but there is a very important purpose in these cases. I would still need to be convinced that this is important to the story.

I love the idea of the first Anakin/Padme scene being a haunting moment, with the force theme playing and no dialogue. I would not abuse this technique of using little to no dialogue in a scene, though; I think part of what makes it special is its contrast with everything else, which could be lost if it is overused.

Anyway, thanks very much for reading. I can’t believe the number of responses this thread has gotten in such a short time- why didn’t you guys do this for my thread? Maybe because I sometimes don’t respond for days on end! (my fault). And a new “Ranch” website- wow! (I still think we can generate a better name). Anyway, with the new interest in this new fan-created SW saga, it doesn’t look like we’ll have trouble securing voice actors for whatever we may need (sinister, Ensligh speaking battle droids, perhaps- to cut down on subtitles, Jar-Jar, maybe even someone’s son to dub Anakin? That’s certainly pushing it).

Until later!

-TM
Post
#165040
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/165040/action/topic#165040
Time
Hello, everyone- I'm back. As usual, I'm sorry I had to be away for so long; I had some family issues that prevented me from work on this. I really can't believe how the Episode I film intended to go with Shroud of the Dark Side has picked up. A new editor that's already completed a rough cut? A new website hosting the script? WOW. My only complaint would be that there were over 400 posts in the span of a couple weeks. Most of these new people have never posted in this thread. What's going on?

Can I get in on this battleplan too, since I'm a little bit involved?

Sure. Sorry to leave you out! I have PM'd six of you with my notes. Please comment on anything you see, anything you are reminded of when viewing, and anything that you don't like. Keep in mind that there may be some old ideas on there that I have not changed or wiped out yet. Darthpreston, if you turn on your PM's, I can send you the link too.


I had to set the brightness on my monitor all the way up to just barely be able to make out that scene and I still couldn't really tell what was going on. Could you upload a brighter version of that clip please?

I'm sorry about that- if I get to a DSL computer soon, I'll try to upload a brighter version.


1. I'd like the worm shots to reverse -- so the order goes from bad to worse -- the moving worms on Padme's arms are not biting, so I'd show them first, THEN cut to the biting worm.

2. I think there are three beats that take too long -- 1. Anakin crossing the room, I'd cut on movement so he only spins his blade once to get from the door to the worms. Currently it spins twice before he's there. 2. I'd cut the "smoking" worm carcass shot so we don't hold on that so long and get Padme to wake up quicker. She takes too long now and it bothers me (maybe no one else, but me). 3. Obi Wan takes too many steps before going out the window -- he should see the droid, take one step and LEAP!! That'll shorten the shot of Anakin with Obi Wan in the background.


Great advice as usual! I have reversed the worm shots, and it looks far more natural. I don't know why I made that mistake to begin with. Now, out of your other suggestions... I like the one about omitting the shot of the carcasses. It's a mistake I missed (the fact that bugs are crawling around on Padme and she gets a lightsaber in her face and she still doesn't wake up immediately. Heavy sleeper!). As for number 1...I think you didn't realize it (because I didn't dub in the sound effect yet) but on the second swing you refer to, Anakin actually gets one of the worms. On the third swing, he gets the second one. And this has never bothered me pacing-wise. It's kind of the same thing with Obi-Wan's run to the window- I like the shots as I've cut it because we have the close-up of Obi-Wan directly followed by his run. I like the longer run because it seems more like a real stunt to me. Also, if we make the sequence too short, I don't have as much time to make a musical statement. I guess it just comes down to....nothing really bothers me now besides the smoking carcasses shot.

I like the concept of the Ceti Alpha V Eel

You guessed it!

Good music too, I don't recall it from Raiders exactly

That's because it was never in Raiders in that form. I cut it and transposed a section to a different key, and then synchronized it with the Star Wars scene. So this is the only place you'll hear that music in that particular form.

Can we get a clip of the new dream sequence, Trooperman? I'm working on one now as a test for Episode I, but in the end, of course, I'd want it to match up with yours.

I didn't really want to release a video clip (until maybe the trailer), as this is one of the editorial highlights of SOTDS. Also, I still need to revisit it and do a bit more work on it. I need some good sound effects of a female screaming, and then I'll have to mix that in with the tusken raiders, along with the thumping of the gaffi sticks. Generally, the style completely sets it apart from the rest of the movie (intentionally). In general, scary imagery and very stark colors. Lots of crossfading, although I have a very specific different style for Episode III, the dream where Anakin and the audience get a glimpse of Anakin's future. His face changes, he gets uglier and uglier... but I don't want to ruin it.

Thanks for the breaking glass sound, Twister. I think I'm going for something that sound "bigger" than that, though. I'll keep searching, though...

Hi, jra166! Thanks for the kind words! If I was going to keep "I miss you...so much", it would of course be dubbed over and therefore bereft of the whininess Hayden incorporated so well. However, just taking a look at this shot, his actual face in the shot is not good at all. And yes, "I won't fail you again" is a much more powerful line. I'll end on this- thanks for the suggestion!


I just noticed this bit -- I wanted to end on the close up of Padme too -- I don't think we need to see Lars say the line "she's dead son, accept it" at all -- it looks bad and Padme's reaction is so ON and perfect for us to see AS we hear that line -- but time it so the close up lasts longer than just the dialogue, for sure. I just think the shot is actually weird coming completely after the dialogue is over -- as if it didn't bother her until we cut over to look at her.

Good idea.

Long live Trooperman!

Thank you. You fellows are great. I'm sorry I haven't been contributing to this or the "Ranch" thread- I've just been very busy and I have an erratic schedule that does not guarantee me time to use this forum. You have my notes now, though, so hopefully interest will be rekindled.

Thank you all!

-TM
Post
#162664
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162664/action/topic#162664
Time
A work-in-progress (still need to find a “breaking glass” sound effect), but I wanted to show you how the “Raiders” music works in this short clip: Clip

Instead of talking about it, I’ll be tending to show you more through video and have your responses based on that (with any other comments you may have about that particular scene).
Post
#162578
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162578/action/topic#162578
Time
Fascinating ideas! Particularly the one in the rehab center.

That is how BOTF is and I love the movie, don't get me wrong, but if I were doing it over again, I would think about at least giving the gungans english dialect. I understand, though, that would require a redubbing of every gungan character.......but hey you could grab other voices from different movies and garble the audio to sound differently than the original.

I just wanted to say that I feel the same way, and I had been considering the feasibility of dubbing the Gungans in English with Australian or British accents. Make Jar-Jar a smart-aleck and a charming character at the same time. Obviously, we'd need several actors to do this. That's my personal preference. The Nemoidians, on the other hand, I'd love to see subtitled. As someone has mentioned, their mask is pretty crummy anway.

InfoDroid, when I get to a high-speed connection again, I'll try downloading again. My gosh, I wish I had time to comment on all of this. I will soon.
Post
#162387
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162387/action/topic#162387
Time
Hi guys. I’m very sorry I haven’t been keeping up with you. MTH, that’s a great script for the Cliegg Lars scene. The only difference is that I’ve edited the tail end a little differently, on a close-up of Padme. I actually liked the way this was handled in the original; before they cut to the next scene, they had a rise in the music with no dialogue and a couple close-ups. I wouldn’t want to end this scene with a dialogue; it seems too abrupt. All of the other suggestions are great, though

InfoDroid, “Now, Voyager” is beautiful, along with “Laura”. You have good taste!

Hi guys. I’m very sorry I haven’t been keeping up with you. MTH, that’s a great script for the Cliegg Lars scene. The only difference is that I’ve edited the tail end a little differently, on a close-up of Padme. I actually liked the way this was handled in the original; before they cut to the next scene, they had a rise in the music with no dialogue and a couple close-ups. I wouldn’t want to end this scene with a dialogue; it seems too abrupt. All of the other suggestions are great, though

Sure- when I get time.

Nope. Don't try to buy yourself more time either. My goal is to catch up with you for the May release. Hahaha! Just kidding. You've got all the time you want. But I would like to see this thing before I start collecting my social security.

Ha ha- don't worry about that. I'm just wondering if you all will start crying if I took this summer to finish the movie, or if you'd like me to try to cram it for May. Obviously the quality will only be higher with more time...


As I'm sure we all realize, it's our combined effort and different viewpoints that make for the superior product we're endeavoring to put out. We're like Lucasfilm pre-RotJ. I thought about breaking it down, but I only got as far as Trooperman as Lucas and myself as Gary Kurtz. I suppose MTH could be Ben Burtt (1980s). Or maybe Trooperman is John Williams, MTH is Lucas, InfoDroid is Kasdan? Or maybe...yeah I don't know, but there are definite possibilities here...

I wanna be Willard Huyck, the guy who rewrote Lucas' original disaster of a script.

Then again, Willard Huyck was responsible for directing "Howard the Duck".

...eek...


Ha ha! I can't wait until I get to the end credits of this movie.

Directed by George Lucas, with help from Trooperman, MTH, CC, InfoDroid, and Ridley Scott

Edited by Ben Burtt, with help from Trooperman, MTH, CC, InfoDroid, and many others

Anakin Skwalker: Hayden Christiansen/Trooperman

Lama-Su: Nanner Split

Music by John Williams, with help from Igor Stravinsky, Gustav Holst, Edvard Griegg, Michael Giachino, and many others


This could take forever!

=====================

Since I've been so awful about posting in this thread (but I want it to keep going), I think for Christmas, I'm going to PM a few of you with a link to a 20+ page word file containing my complete chronological personal notes for SOTDS. My complete battleplan. Then, I think we'll truly be on the same page. I've been withholding it because I thought it would only complicate things, but now that I think about it, this can only mean good things.

I'll be hitting CC, MTH, and InfoDroid with PM's before Christmas. Please speak up if you'd like to receive my notes as well. Be warned that they were only intended for me and they're somewhat boring/tedious/confusing to read through.

Thanks, guys!

-TM
Post
#162384
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162384/action/topic#162384
Time
I can't keep up with you guys!

WOW. This is incredibly important stuff we're discussing here. What happens here will affect the entire saga, obviously. So before you make any monumental decisions, I'd like to post my take on the situation. As usual, I don't have time now; however, I can throw out a couple thoughts off the top of my head.

1. Whatever we do, I don't want it to be of a cut-and-paste nature; the ultimate goal is to make it seem as though it was always this way. It was released this way.

2. I agree that we need some kind of explanation for Maul=Grievous. It's just far too much of a stretch for me otherwise. I DO like the idea of Palpatine being able to bring people back from the dead as mechanical zombies; that's very intriguing. But someone made a VERY good point; the confrontation between Obi-Wan and Grievous is not at all appropriate for Obi-Wan facing the man that killed his master. He makes cocky, "funny" comments, like "hello there", "you're move", and "So uncivilized." Remember how furious he was in Episode I? I loved that, and we didn't get that rage or emotion in Episode III. Instead we got Obi-Wan riding around on a lizard and Grievous riding around in whatever that weird vehicle was. I don't know how to address this for my Ep. III.

3. I actually don't have a German copy of Episode I yet.

4. If I'm understanding correctly, there was an idea to turn Sidious in Episode I to Count Dooku? If so, that's a VERY interesting idea because all the mystery would be there and the scenes containing Sidious wouldn't have to be scrapped. We still want this movie to be feature length Also, it would make Dooku a permanent character throughout all three prequels, which is good. Episode I would be the set-up, and he would come out into the open in Episode II. And as it was brought up, it's a revelation to the audience when Dooku shows up at Sidious' place at the end of Episode II. Dooku isn't the head honcho. Of course, this would mean that Palpatine had trained two Sith at once....

Am I understanding this correctly?

5. I don't know about the dream for Anakin. It sounds good at first, but now I'm thinking it might take away from the surprise value of the one in Episode II. Is there any info the audience has to gain through a dream from the 9-year old Anakin?

6. I've had really bad luck downloading the new InfoDroid clips. RapidShare tells me I'm unauthorized, I have a bad password, or something like that. But I'd love to see them- is there another way to post?

7. As a closing note (for now), Episode I is the first film in the 6-movie saga. It should be filled with great, adventurous music, panoramic shots of the worlds, an attitude as though everything that happens is novel and has never been done before (like lightsabers, blasters, etc.) Unfortunately, the original movie has this feeling instead of Episode I (and understandably so).

More later! Thanks for reading,

-TM