logo Sign In

Trooperman

User Group
Members
Join date
15-Feb-2005
Last activity
15-Jun-2015
Posts
1,406

Post History

Post
#258381
Topic
Dolby Pro-Logic Encoding/Decoding
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/258381/action/topic#258381
Time
Hi everyone. I've looked at various guides, forums, and so forth, and I've found some useful stuff, but so far I haven't found a straightforward answer to the following:

1. How do you encode a stereo WAV that is Pro-Logic (or PL2) compatible with something like Vegas or BeSweet (without having to buy a $600 plugin), using 4 or 5 tracks as a base? I know you dump "Front right" into the right and "Front Left" into left, but I'm confused about the volumes, the scaling, phase inversion, directional steering and so forth. I realize that no matter what you do, it's matrixed and you're going to lose some info upon decoding, but I'd love to be able to encode a stereo file with the surround info in it.

2. Is there any easy method for Dolby Pro-Logic or Pro-Logic II playback on a PC (from a matrixed stereo file)? For instance, you're watching the 2006 Star Wars DVD's on your PC through a set of USB 5.1 surround sound headphones. Is there any inexpensive method or program where you could listen to the matrixed surround in realtime? Or not in realtime? In other words, is there a program where you can put a matrixed stereo file in and get 4 or 5 separate channels out? Obviously this would vary from decoder to decoder, but is there a way to do it?

Thanks so much! I've been looking everywhere for this info,

-TM
Post
#258355
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/258355/action/topic#258355
Time
Originally posted by: Weezer12
So is there any chance that we'll be getting this thing any earlier than Jan/Feb, Trooperman?


By next month? Unfortunately not, because I had hoped I would have it ready by THIS month. Christmastime always slows things down for me in terms of time I have to work.

I'm not saying that it won't be done to a certain extent in December. I'm just saying that I would love to do more tweaking and remixing of the voices before I'd feel comfortable releasing it. The neat thing is that I'll have the video encoded and locked this year, and the rest of the time can be devoted to tweaking the sound mix.

I'm really sorry, guys! But I'm confident that when this thing actually goes public, you'll forgive the wait and realize that it was worth it. If I had more time to work on this, it would've been done months ago, but I have a very big life outside of this that makes it very difficult, especially with a task so huge. And to be honest, I didn't actually start physically start editing the film in the form it is now until Summer/Autumn 2005. I started a rough cut before that, but had to drop it. Also, as this was a learning process, I later threw out much of the work I did in those first few learning months.

And another thing that slows down the process is that I'm actually doing the editing using a five year old machine. It was very good back then, but now it's quite slow, especially for film editing using multiple hard drives. Occasionally Vegas shuts down because I'm giving it too many commands too quickly. Add to this the fact that I didn't have enough hard drive space to convert all the footage to AVI, which means that I'm editing off of the DVD MPEG files directly (which slows down the process further). Also, when I'm editing and I play through any given section, I'm looking at a very small image, because blowing it up to full resolution means it slows down to about 5-10 fps. So I have to render the whole section to see how it'll play in full resolution. I haven't been rendering the whole film until the last couple of months, so naturally there are some encoding glitches and lip synch issues that have arisen that I'll need to go back and fix before I release the film.

I think you guys get the picture- my working conditions and equipment are not ideal- you have to have a really calm temperament and lots of time to deal with it. This might shed a little light on the reason this is being delayed until next year.

-------------

One neat thing I just rediscovered is the documentary on the Ep. II- "Films are not Released- They Escape". I realized that some of the audio mixing problems I was having are solveable using the isolated chunks of sound effects Mr. Burtt has provided. For instance: The assassin bugs at the beginning of the film. I replaced the music in that scene and recut the scene, but the wriggling/crawling sound effects couldn't be isolated. I couldn't find a solution.

Then, I remembered that the documentary had footage of the recording of the foaley for that particular section (with the plastic tube and the grapefruits), and I was able to recreate the FX track for the bugs.

Another interesting find I made was a very long article about the audio mixing and production of "Attack of the Clones". I don't have the exact quote right now, but at one point, the fellow said that the ADR dialogue for that film (not the on-set recordings) were "worldized" a bit to make it "grittier". Which is exactly what I'm trying to do. Unfortunately they don't go into any details so that I could copy that effect.

-------

All right- enough talking. Here are basically the same clips of video I posted previously, but containing differently processed voices. How do these compare? Does it sound more like the OT did?

1 (Garage)

I don't usually do this, but here's a couple seconds of Hayden Christiansen for comparison/reference: garage (Hayden)

For those of you with large monitors, notice the too-perfect framing here and the colorful frame (compared to the garage scene in "Star Wars")

And here's the argument clip: 2 (dusk)
Post
#258288
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/258288/action/topic#258288
Time
Thanks so much for that card, Sluggo! It's part of the film now.

Hi folks. I've been reconsidering this whole issue after Bespinsec's comments. My equipment is good, but it's not top of the line, pro-level stuff. Also, I'm doing this at my house, not a studio. After a couple tests, I think that there's too much background noise and there has to be another way. After all, I did go through a lot of pains to get a clear recording; now it seems that it's too clear, so much so that it sounds really "dubbed".

However, I really don't want to have to go back and redo a lot of the ADR- it was a time consuming process and I'm really happy with how the acting itself turned out.

A much better solution would be to use a slight highpass on Anakin, with a touch of a medium-size room plate. Make sure to roll off some of the lows on the reverb itself.

I feel really dumb now, because I had no idea you can do that. Now I'm looked through all the filters, and I found "paragraphic" and "parametric" EQs. I've used this process on several scenes so far.

Things are sounding a LOT better.

My question is- are those of you who feel the voice sounds "dubbed" (myself included), are you listening to the mix through headphones? I listened to the film for the first time recently through a regular set of stereo speakers, and I was surprised at how much better it sounded. I think headphones tend to really reveal and exaggerate defects in the sound- kind of like watching a VHS tape on an HD-TV.

I'll post a new voice clip along with Jar-Jar soon, so that you can tell me if the voice sounds any better using this technique, and if it's "garbled" enough But I really happy with these latest tests- I think I'll be able to pull this off, if I give this much attention to each line of dialogue.


Awesome. Can't wait for the next batch of clips. I had my doubts but after viewing those clips, you seem 100x better than Hayden.

Thanks! I could actually post a comparison clip of Hayden, so that you all have something to compare mine to. That might be a good idea.

Are there any movies with someone having a voice similar to how you want Anakin to sound?

I can't think of any offhand. I don't know- it's that old fashioned, "leading man" type voice you don't hear anymore. Earnest. I can't remember a specific movie with that type of voice, but they're out there, I'm sure.

It might give it a more OT feel since a lot of the dialogue in those films seems like it was always somewhat garbled.

Yes, particularly in the first movie. Interesting to think about. I was always aiming for the highest sound quality possible, but if it makes teh voice stand out too much.....

As I've said, I'm going to be experimenting with lowering the quality, killing different frequencies, and etc. to get the best and most realistic effect.

Clips to follow
Post
#258129
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/258129/action/topic#258129
Time
That's a very brilliant idea, Adywan. I wish I had thought of it. This is great because I don't have to redo most of the ADR that I've worked so hard on (acting-wise), but I lose the "fan recorded close to the mike" sound and get that "on-set" sound. I won't use this technique on the Lama-Su dialogue, though, because it sounds great as it is- besides, the whole point of Kamino is to get that clear, pristine sound inside to contrast with all the rain and noise going on outside.

The best part about this is that I might be able to extract Portman's dialogue from the center channel and... use the same process on it. That would REALLY sell the two voices as being in the same space....

I'm excited about this all over again. Using this technique will put this edit on a whole new level. And the great part is that I will have the actual video footage on the film completely finished, encoded and in my DVD player by Christmas. The one or two months after that will be spent reprocessing the ADR recordings in the way Adywan described and mixing them back into the picture.


This was the exact problem, see. I was recording very closely to the microphone, and to compensate I was trying all kinds of things, from lowering the bass, to adding filters, to adding a bunch of artificial reverb to match the surroundings atmosphere. And although I never admitted it to myself, it wasn't working a lot of the time. Using this technique will make it sound like Hayden always had my voice, and as Adywan said, it will add a much more natural reverb to the sound.

Thank you so much, Adywan. I'm kicking myself for not realizing this sooner, but I'm also really, really happy now because:

1. The movie is practically done. My dream of watching a brilliant version of Ep. II is about to be fulfilled, and
2. Now I have a way to make this the way I always wanted to have it- the newly recorded voices will be integrated seamlessly.

-----------

Adding new English voices recorded by fans to a 2002 feature film like "Attack of the Clones" is so difficult- I know why nobody's attempted it before. But it's being done now.

My recommendation now is to just completely forget that this even exists until next year. It'll make the wait less painful. In the meantime, I'll be working on something designed to knock all of your socks off.

But for now, I'll be taking a little break and having Thanksgiving with the family! Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

-TM

P.S. Does anyone know anything about where to find that ratings card I posted earlier?
Post
#257973
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257973/action/topic#257973
Time
So all I have to say is, if you need to delay this a few months or whatever for redubbing, re-editting, going through different takes or screening to a select few........then my friend you MUST do that. There is no rush, there is no studio deadline or public outcry.......the ball is in your court and I urge you to consider how much time you need to pull off the edit you are aiming for (which is a premium edit).

This is true, Preston. I really do want it to go out soon, though. There are a couple people that I know REALLY want it to be now. But I've just made a decision.

Rather than rush out an inferior product for Christmas, I do think I might release this in January/February of 2007. I really hope this doesn't create an outcry, but I've had several roadblocks in my life that have prevented me from working on this thing the amount that I would've liked. And for something I've been working on for so long, I really think that a month or two of testing, screening, and tweaking the sound mix would benefit this movie so much.

It was always my intention to do this. I expected to have the movie done by the end of September, and then watch it, tweak it, and make it more perfect so by the time November rolled around, it's be ready to release. But it didn't happen that way. I was out of town quite a bit. My hard drive crashed. I was receving character voices in October and November (which was no fault of the actors- I had been rewriting dialogue and etc). I didn't talk about this much, but I was also running into major glitches with my video software- there are sequences that I had cut to the frame that were screwed up by this. This coincided with the installation of another video program.

But it's getting better and better and better. I know some people don't mind the "Anakin voice" the way it is, but if I had a month or two to play with it, then I'm positive that I could satisfy everybody.

Believe me, I'm POSTIVE this will be released soon. Heck, I already know that I'm going to have a DVD in my player before Christmas, the complete version of SOTDS.

But I guess it comes down to this- hearing the recent comments about Anakin's voice, it would really kill me and make me very sad if I worked on this for two years only to get criticisms about something like the audio mixing after I release it. I think this will be my only contribution to OT.com that I'm completely in charge of, and basically I want it to represent my filmmaking abilities the best that it can. Also, this will hopefully give me a chance to make the stereo mix a “matrixed” one. What that means is that it’s a two-channel stereo track, but when you play it through a home theatre setup, it’s decoded into four-channel surround sound. It’s kind of old technology (Dolby Digital 5.1 is pretty much always used for new movies nowadays), but that fits all the better with the point of the project. I’m reading up on this and seeing if it’s possible to encode a matrixed track without having to buy a $600 piece of software.

I hope that some of you understand, and I'm really sorry. I know that you all want to see this. And my feelings wouldn't be hurt at all if you left this thread and didn't come back until January/February next year. But I want this to blow people out of the water in every way possible, and by golly, that's what's going to happen.

I'm really sorry


In regards to the fun factor....

This thing is unbelievably fun. All the things I've done to the movie are means to an end- to make this movie enjoyable to watch. So if you want to pop in Ep. II, you can watch a well-made film with a main character that doesn't whine his way through the pathetic film like Hayden does. To me, even if the ADR doesn't sound quite natural in a couple places, the viewing experience is so superior to the alternative (listening to Hayden), that it's really, really worth it for me.

I realize that everyone looks at movies in different ways. It's the difference betwen someone that takes in camera angles and lighting, and someone that looks for cameos, or someone who notices continuity errors. I'm trying to fill all of these needs with the film, but a one-man overhaul like this has never really been done before, and it's an incredibly arduous undertaking (which I didn't realize when I jumped in to it, of course). The only person that's come even close to putting this many new elements into a fan edit is MagnoliaFan, but he had the advantage in that he was only using movie audio. I am using English ADR recordings from amateur actors, which are a lot harder to incorporate into the film seamlessly. Throw in a new music soundtrack, new colors, and playing the cinematographer role, and you've got something crazy.

But I think the best part of all this (and the most laughable), is what Sluggo said:

The final recordings I have for each character right now are incredibly good, acting-wise. Honestly. I had no idea there was this much talent on the boards. Actually, this is a good idea I have for a trailer. Do a caption that says, "George Lucas' Actors" and then show footage from AOTC. Then, have a caption that says, "OT.com Volunteer Actors" and show footage from SOTDS.

Honestly, I listen to Lama-Su, or Anakin, or Nute Gunray, the stormtroopers, Jar-Jar, Marcus Fett inside the helmet, and etc. and I'm still amazed at how good the acting is. Nute Gunray actually sounds nasty/dangerous. The two Fetts inside the helmet (Marcus from SOTDS and Boba Fett from the original "Empire") actually sound the same. Uncle Owen sounds a lot like his counterpart Phil Brown in the original SW.

In short, not only does the acting hold up on its own terms, but the people that were tasked specifically with impersonating OT actors did so amazingly well (you guys know who you are). Granted, in some cases it took two, even three auditions to get to that point, but right now, I couldn't be happier with the acting.

--------------

Question:

Does anyone happen to have a high quality version of this 70's rating card:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/Moth3r/Pre-ANH%20Bootleg%20Telecine%20-%20Widescreen%20Version/Clipboard08.jpg

I would love to start out the movie with this because it would set up the whole mood before the movie even started. I read the "70's widescreen bootleg" thread, and apparently this ratings card was on the original theatrical release, so it'd be a neat, authentic thing to include in SOTDS.

Thanks so much!

TM

PS: Since this project is postponed for a couple months, I might as well tell you this: There’s a possibility (*wink*) that the droid analysis sequence might be in the process of being recomposited right now….

Post
#257896
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257896/action/topic#257896
Time
Originally posted by: Dantha Fodder
I appear to be in the minority when I say this, and Trooperman, please consider this constructive criticism. I am not a troll and definitely appreciate what you're trying to do with your edit.

I actually can't get into the voice. I'm sorry. I find it a bit too jarring and distracting.

I think its the fact, that while the recording is of an excellent quality (I'm thinking you must have a pretty sweet setup there!) I just don't think the voice suits Hayden Christensen.

It also sounds too, 'dubbed' I guess, when compared to the surrounding dialogue (ie Portman's dialogue). The atmosphere/environment of the recording, also doesn't match the scene in which it has been placed. I don't know whether this can be fixed by adding some reverb/other EQ's or something?

Now for the constructive criticism part. I think it may be a little more natural if perhaps the lines were re-recorded by a trained actor. I'm not sure if you've had training in the past, but you might want to put out a call to all budding actors in your local area and conduct auditions for possible candidates (I'm not sure, you may have already considered/done this). I'm pretty certain someone out there, who is training/trained as an actor, could do it for nothing. Heck, you could even post samples of possible candidates on this site and we could vote the one that is the best!

My intention is not diss you or the (otherwise) quality work you're doing mate. I encourage it. I just wanted to give my 2 cents worth. Hope I don't get shot down in flames too much.

I appreciate your criticism- however, it's too late in the game at this point to have it redone by anyone else. At this point, I just want to get this to a point where it's releasable, and then release it.

Here's the good news- if this thing is a success, there's a possibility that for the dual-layer version, I'll send all of the audio to a professional sound editor who will mix and match all of the dubbed voices and and the original voices, and make the audio quality as similar as possible.

Also, there's certainly enough intricacy to my sound mix to create a 5.1 surround track if people wanted that, so this person would put the audio into surround as well- I just have neither the time nor the ability to do that.

I think it's worth it because even if the dialogue winds up sounding "dubbed" in the final film, in my opinion it's such a relief to be able to enjoy the movie again, that I forget these things really quickly. Almost like watching a movie in B&W or letterbox on a 4x3- after the first 5 minutes, you don't notice it anymore.

But I do acknowledge that the garage scene is messed up somehow, and I'll be recording that whole scene a second time, farther away from the mike this time, and matching mouth movement more closely. But I don't see an issue with the "argument" clip. I guess Anakin's voice could be mixed a little softer, but other than that, I think the acting is good, myself. (I am a little biased, of course) As I've said, if there's ever the opportunity to turn the recordings over to someone that does it for a living, then I might just do that because they could achieve a higher level of perfection mixing the voices.

It also sounds too, 'dubbed' I guess, when compared to the surrounding dialogue (ie Portman's dialogue). The atmosphere/environment of the recording, also doesn't match the scene in which it has been placed. I don't know whether this can be fixed by adding some reverb/other EQ's or something?

It would have been better if Portman was dubbed as well. Too bad about that. If you're talking about the garage scene (as far as EQ and reverb is concerned) then I think everyone recognizes there's a problem with that and it'll be fixed.

And I can't wait to hear a Brit Jar Jar. I think that would work amazing well to tie in the OOT, sense everyone had a British accent pretty much.


Never really thought of it that way! But this comment decides it, I think:

Actually, I was reviewing my Jar Jar recordings and I was just horrified on how they turned out. Could I formally request that they be removed from consideration?


OK, Sluggo! I didn't think the recordings were that bad- it just wasn't the style I was aiming for. I hope you all like "British Jar-Jar", because I'm pretty sure that's what it'll be I'll post a clip soon.

If you are really open for space, you could always tack in alternate audio tracks for him?


That could be. Another thing I was thinking of was playing a sample of each alternate ADR voice track during the future commentary track, for a behind-the-scenes perspective on how I arrived at my final choices.

----------------

I've just been thinking about the Anakin ADR awkwardness issue, and I think the problem is that I screwed up on how I actually physically recorded a lot of the lines- close to the mike. On an actual set, the mike would have been farther away. Now, some scenes are better than others in this regard, but for particularly offensive scenes (like the garage) I'll try to just rerecord the dialogue farther away from the mike, which I think will help a lot.

I don't think a new actor is needed because I don't think the problem is with my acting- if you saw the movie all the way through, I think you'd agree. And the original reason I did it myself was convenience- I know exactly what I want, and when I want to make a dialogue change, I'm able to cut it in instantly and see whether it'll work. The problem in a few scenes is that the voice sounds unnatural (like it was recorded on a soundstage).

I want you all to understand that I could definitely spend a few more months working on this and have plenty of stuff to work on, just trying to get the voice mixed right. But I can't- people have been waiting on this forever. It's time to release it.

So I'll do whatever I can in the less than a month that I have remaining (as far as tweaking the voices and making them fit) but there is a limit and unfortunately I do not do this full-time. Right now, I haven't even finished doing the Clone War or the conference at the beginning of the film. After that, I have to do another pass on the film and eliminate all of the encoding glitches and the pacing problems. After I do that, assemble the movie, and render the video, IF I have time then I'll really get in depth into tweaking the voices.

Thanks everyone,

TM
Post
#257557
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257557/action/topic#257557
Time
Anakin: I will even learn to stop people from dying!
Padme: Anakin?
Anakin: Yeah, what?

Takes a couple steps.

Anakin: I hate them!

Sits down. Padme looks down at him sadly.

Anakin: I'm sorry. I can't... can't forgive the monsters.
Padme: To be angry is to be human.
Anakin: No, I'm a Jedi. I know I'm above this.

Music builds and wipe to next scene.
Post
#257554
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257554/action/topic#257554
Time
So I think you'll have to match whatever the "attitude" of Hayden is, especially for this scene. Because when you speak a low , calm voice for a character that is tempered up and is speaking quite loudly, then your gonna have scenes like that. I think your voice is going to work for the character, but you'll have to be mindful of the ADR and matching whatever we're "seeing" from the actor and combining that with how you want to pull it off and the different dialouge.

Thanks for the reality check- this is true, especially for the garage scene. After I watch my first cut (which should be finished this week), I'll definitely have some rerecording to do.

I wanted to sound different from Hayden, which I think I definitely succeeded in, but there are a couple moments, the biggest being the garage scene, where I don't think I'm selling the illusion. What I'm realizing is that the scenes that came out well are the ones where I physically moved my mouth in the same way as the actor onscreen when recording the ADR. I guess I figured it made less of a difference than it actually did.

In any case, whether I get to do a lot of pickups or not, I think it's a lot better than Hayden's whiny alternative. I just want it to be the best it can be.



Its amazing how much you sound like Hayden

Uh-oh! I didn't want to sound like Hayden!



Thanks to everyone for all the feedback.

EDITED to add:

The thing about the garage scene is that anakin was yelling out his dialouge " The women! The children!".........it was a tense scene that I actually enjoyed in the original (other than the bare reaction from padme).

Actually, in SOTDS Anakin doesn't own up to killing the sandpeople, one reason being that Padme does have a really bare reaction to this. After he tells her he just killed a bunch of women/children, she basically kneels down, pats him on the back, and says everyone has their bad days. It's also unrealistic to think that Padme would be attracted to this type of psycho. So that part is cut, and the scene is about Anakin's mother dying and about Obi-Wan holding him back from saving her, and about Anakin wanting more power.
Post
#257482
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257482/action/topic#257482
Time
Glad people liked the clips!- I just rendered them out quickly to give you a better idea of the voice.

One of the last scenes I haven't completed yet is actually the garage scene, because to be honest, it looks weird to me too- I think you lose the illusion that the voice actually matches with the character. Someone mentioned that it could be because Hayden is opening his mouth really wide throughout that scene, and that's why it's looking funny. That could be.

It could be that I'll have to do another recording session and do the garage scene again (which I'm not looking forward to, because you have to make your voice sound hoarse before recording). I'll see.

The other problem I'm having in completing this scene is the music. I actually thought that the original cue for this particular scene was very good. But I can't use it. It's not on the soundtrack, they never released an extended soundtrack, and when I checked the surround channels, Hayden's voice is in all of the tracks. A clean recording of that cue is impossible.

So this scene is still in progress, definitely.

----------------


Trooperman, have you added any music the asteroid field chase? If you haven't gone through that yet, how about "Scherzo for Motorcycle" from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade?

Actually, I already have music for that scene, which is already very specifically synchronized with the footage. I also don't have the soundtrack for Last Crusade (I'll have to pick it up sometime).

I'm glad people like the new "dusk" setting- this was actually really difficult to pull off, so much so that Laserschwert (the first FX person) wasn't able to change it in AfterEffects without spending a lot of time on it. So I did it myself, and I think it works well. One really hard part was that Anakin's face had a strong pink border around it after the color correction (due to problems with the original compositing, I think). That's pretty much gone now.

As for the "eh" line....ha ha! That wasn't even scripted; it just came out during the recording session because it's how I would react to what Padme was saying. I hope it doesn't come off as a Han Solo knock-off...


Can I also try and make some kind of a poster for this movie? I'd like to try.. Not sure if I can, but it's nice to try--

Hi Falle. I would love you to do a poster for this movie, because I know what a great graphics person you are from the DVD cover thread. I've downloaded all of the covers from your sites as well- I'd love to see what you could do with this. Thanks for posting in the thread!

----------------

I now have both versions of the character of Jar-Jar. I'm considering posting two versions of a clip- one with Sluggo's version, and one with hairy_hen's version, and get your feedback. I think I know what I'm going to go with, but I hope it won't be too jarring.

Just to recap:

Sluggo did a recording of Jar-Jar a while back. It was very Ahmed Best-eque: I almost couldn't tell the difference between the voices. The difference is that he was reading the new dialogue. Very usable recording.

But Hairy_hen did a recording of Jar-Jar with a lower-English accent, which is pretty much a complete departure from the Jar-Jar that we know (he also did a Scottish Jar-Jar, which I don't think I will use). It's really very entertaining, though.

Part of me says that using hairy_hen's dialogue, people are going to be jarred every time Jar-Jar opens his mouth (because we haven't heard Jar-Jar talking like this before- ever. Ep. I hasn't been made yet.

But the other part of me says that if people are jarred by Jar-Jar, they're going to be jarred by a heck of a lot more in this movie. You can't really go into it thinking about "Attack of the Clones"- it doesn't work. If before you sit down, you try to erase your memory of "Attack of the Clones" and realize that anything might happen in "Shroud of the Dark Side", then you'll have a lot better time watching the film.

That's why I didn't post any comparison clips of Hayden saying the lines along with my recently posted clips. Are they pretty awful? Yes. But I want SOTDS to stand on it's own as a movie, and I think it has the ability to do that. Because if you think about it, when the whole plot has changed (Obi-Wan is keeping Anakin from seeing his mother), many of the characters have different voices, the soundtrack is mostly replaced, and the personality of the main character has been changed... then you've pretty much got a different movie.
Post
#257371
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257371/action/topic#257371
Time
It's coming, guys....

Thanks for posting that link, Darth Richard.

Wow. Obi-Wan enforced the "no-marriage" rule? Wow. That's reason enough to be mad right there. Dang.

Ha ha! Yeah, I'd be pretty mad too. Probably, though, Obi-Wan told Anakin these rules before they even began training, so this many years later, he's used to the idea. Which doesn't mean he's happy about it....

And thanks for the comment, Bespinsec.

---------------

Not much time to post, but I wanted to upload a couple more Anakin clips:

1
2

You'll notice the first one is kind of out-of-synch, but that should be fixed before release.
Post
#257030
Topic
Star Wars: REBORN - The Complete Saga (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/257030/action/topic#257030
Time
Originally posted by: InfoDroid
Thanks, Mark! Nice to see ya. I like the work you've been doing for Trooperman's "Shroud of the Dark Side" logo and posters.


Yeah, me too. Forgot to mention that, but those posters you're cooking up are incredible. Thanks so much.

And this project is looking breathtaking and very original. I'm still in envy of your trailer-making abilities....

Post
#256989
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256989/action/topic#256989
Time
I like No. 13 as well. It's true that the "S" does look kind of funny on top, though. But the word "Shroud" looks a lot better when it isn't compressed so much vertically. Too bad there isn't a way to take the letter "S" from logo #12 and take all of the other features from logo #13. And I'd definitely not go any thinner than that on the top bar. If anything, a little thicker might be good. Maybe a thickness in between logo #12 (based on my original logo) which is too thick, and logo #13, which might be a bit too thin. I know there's got to be a way to do this!

But I'm getting really picky now- I don't blame you if you just want to stop here. But thank you so much for caring so much about the logo- I really, really appreciate it as I am not a graphics person.

I just don't like #11 because "Shroud" is a more important word in the title than "of the". They probably shouldn't be the same size.

--------------------

I'm pretty busy right now, but I'll see about posting some more clips with "New Anakin" speaking. Sorry, Hayden

Actually, this whole project is kind of funny considering the 2004 DVD's, in which Lucas completely deleted actors from the OT (Jason Wingreen, Clive Revill, etc.) I'm just taking the next step and replacing PT actors....

By the way, there are a couple major plot points in this edit that I think I've forgotten to mention:

-Boba is the natural son of Marcus Fett- not a clone
-The Republic already had an army, but the Separatist movement is so big that they need a new, better army (established through new dialogue).
-Obi-Wan is preventing Anakin from seeing his mother. This is the main reason for Anakin’s anger and odd behavior throughout the film.
-Obi-Wan is also overly restrictive. It is in fact Obi-Wan’s idea for Anakin to take a vow of celibacy- it isn’t standard Jedi practice (there are married Jedi).
-Anakin is not particularly interested in Padme at the start of the movie. None of the “emotional connection ever since he was nine years old” garbage.
-There no references to “The Prophesy” or midichlorians in this film
-The person that ordered the clones is identifiable by the audience by the film's end
-Anakin is a likable character
Post
#256984
Topic
Help Wanted: with my Episode II Edit's Opening Crawl....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256984/action/topic#256984
Time
Good ideas.

I addressed the whole problem of the clone army and the mystery in a different way in SOTDS. I did toss the Dex scene and used the Analysis Robot to identify the dart, but it is established through new Mas Amedda dialogue that the Republc already had an army, but it basically wasn't strong enough any more to stand up to such a huge rebel force, and they desperately need a new, better army. Palpatine clears it after getting emergency power, and they all run over to Geonosis (without telling the audience that that's what they're going to do).


I think I tried removing the scene with Jango and Zam (which I agree is terrible) but there was the problem of what to cut to after Obi and Manakin finish speaking with Padme in her apartment. I know Magnoliafan, in his edit of Episode II cut to the sun setting over Coruscant (from EP1), but I don't want to resort to this unless I can get different enough footage.

I just faded to black on this one. People don't usually do that in edits, but the fade to black appears in the original SW several times, actually.

Good discussion....
Post
#256588
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256588/action/topic#256588
Time
I really like all of the #12 versions posted except for 12E, because I really like having the top bar come out of the "S".

For the "official" logo, I would like two variants- some kind of slanted version, and the straight version (something like 12A). I'd like the straight one to be used as well because it matches with the logos on the "Faces" set that I've gotten used to for over ten years now.

The straight logo

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/1001/sotdsfm1.jpg

fits better with these logos:

http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/brands/0011/3762/brand.gif
http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/brands/0011/3788/brand.gif
http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/brands/0011/3789/brand.gif

Just a thought. But I really like the higher-res #12 logos.
Post
#256418
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256418/action/topic#256418
Time
I loved all of the recent artwork posted, but that last poster is just fantastic. The logo you used is also my new favorite- it looks like you used my #3, but made the bottom bar a little less bold.

I love it. Only thing is, you should change the words, "This summer" to "This fall". Because winter doesn't begin until December 21, and this edit will go public before that date.

I just need Jar-Jar now, and then I can begin the revision process!

Believe me, guys- I'm just as excited as you right now for this to be done. I can't WAIT to see the whole thing in sequence, in my living room
Post
#256194
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256194/action/topic#256194
Time
But I like my logo! *pouts*

Well, in TM's versions "Shroud" has been squashed vertically to fit under the bar, which doesn't look good.

I think it'd look better coming from Klokwerk (using something better than MS Paint).

I just really don't like 9 and 10 as much, for whatever reason. Probably because the words "of the" are way too big. I don't know. I really like my No. 3 version and I'd love it if Klokwerk could do a high-quality mockup of that so we can better judge it. If that doesn't work, in my opinion the next best option is #4. I like No. 5 as well.

And I really do like that Ep. II conceptual painting.

-----------------

On a completely unrelated note, if hairy_hen is reading this, I'd like you to drop me a PM and just let me know what the timetable is. No pressure, but I'd just like to plan this out.

Thanks!

-TM
Post
#256109
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/256109/action/topic#256109
Time
MTH, head to IMAGESHACK.us. You can upload direct from your PC and include the link here.

WOW! Didn’t expect to come back to find 16 different versions of a “SOTDS” logo. Sorry I’ve come so late in the game. Thank you, klokwerk (and everyone else), for putting so much thought into the logo. I’m really flattered.

With that said, my personal favorites of all of these great logos were numbers 4 and 12. So, using MS Paint, I tried to combine them and get the best looking logo possible.

I was wondering if you could create a logo that looks kind of like this (ignore the bad quality, please):

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/4486/version11dc8.jpg

Without the “Star Wars” bounding box:

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/3267/version11withoutboxcg5.jpg

Skewed:

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/8274/version11skewediq5.jpg

Notice how the “S” forms the top bar, the words “of the” are smaller than “Shroud”, and “Shroud” is somewhat smaller than “Dark Side”. This looks like a genuine Star Wars logo to me.

Thanks so much! This is wonderful,

-TM
Post
#255353
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/255353/action/topic#255353
Time
I really like the picture on the last cover posted by Klokwerk. But I do like the faded theatrical poster as well. Maybe the faded theatrical poster (or another 70's/80's style movie poster created from concept art) could be put on the front, and the picture with Anakin holding Padme could go on the back of the cover, or the chapter list, or something like that. I really like that last picture.

One thing that would be really neat is if a logo could be made for SOTDS (that could be put on the front cover) that matches the OT logos. Like this: http://www.toysrgus.com/pete/empirelogo.jpg

Notice how "Episode V" is nowhere to be seen- it's just the title.

Thank you so much for putting a cover together- I have no experience with that whatsoever, and I really love what I'm seeing so far. And thanks to Twister for the links...
Post
#255170
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/255170/action/topic#255170
Time
Does my custom cover from way back in the thread count as credit material?

Of course! I'm glad you're still following the thread after all this time Yes, the specs have definitely changed since last year. The title, the characters being dubbed, the crawl... all of this has been changed. When I get time, I can send you the necessary info. What a great start on the cover, though! I like the washed out idea too.

Was there ever a PT poster made to look like it was from the 70's?

Now THAT would be neat Maybe an alternate OT-style cover with a SOTDS title to match the OT logos, and a colorful layout.

I am so excited about this edit Trooperman, and if you have time I would love to see some clips with the new and improved audio

I'll see if I have time to do that On the one hand I don't want to give too much away, but on the other hand I want you to see my work. I'll see if I can't get you all a couple more glimpses.

-----------------------

In addition to that outline of my game plan I just posted, I just remembered that I haven't finished Mace Windu's lightsaber yet. So I'll have to do that before I start on credits as well....
Post
#254920
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254920/action/topic#254920
Time
Hi, everyone. Sorry I wasn't able to respond earlier- I lost connection for a few days.

As long as you don't suppress your first edition and claim that your second "special" edition represents your original vision.


Ha ha! Hopefully I'll get everything right the first time

SOTDS is probably the thing I've been looking forward to the most all year.

Wow- thanks to and Bespinsec for the encouragement. This movie WILL be done this year. And thanks again to LTH for considering making an Ep. I to match. I'm really very excited.

Now, as far as a commentary track- I probably have enough material for 3 commentaries. That's not an issue I guess the question is whether you want a commentary on the single-layer release (which would probably diminish the video quality of the actual film).


One thing I noticed in my cut of ep II though was how much screen time was lost by all the necessary cuts. May I therefore ask how this cut is shaping up length-wise? Best of luck with completing this most important work.

Actually, I think SOTDS is turning out to be around 2 hrs (or a little more). I don't have a final running time yet (but I should soon). This is because a lot of rotten scenes were given new meaning, dialogue, and music, and actually became good scenes. Rather than cut out a lot of scenes, I tried my darndest to make what was already there good. Not just adequate or watchable (by cutting out offensive dialogue, etc.)- but good. I think that's what will differentiate this from a lot of other edits. I replaced things and changed things that worked fine. Why? Because I wanted it to be breathtaking! I'll leave it to others to decide whether it worked or not...

-------------------------------

My cut is almost complete. I need to do the Jar-Jar scenes, which will be possible once I receive hairy_hen's dialogue. Then, I'll have a running time for you.

At that time, I'll sit down with a pencil and paper and run the film from start to finish, making a list of every single technical flaw or pacing flaw that I see/hear. Then, I'll go through the movie and implement all of the changes, which will hopefully not take very long.

Then, I'll tackle the end credits. I have discovered the font used for the end credits- now I need names.

Please PM me with your name if you have assisted in any way on this project, in physical help or in ideas (if you have posted anything constructive in this thread, in other words).

Then, I'll dump all 20 sections of the film into one master file, render out in uncompressed AVI, and from there, start encoding in MPEG-2. Once that's finished, I'll join all of the encoded pieces into one MPEG file, render out the soundtrack, synch both of them, add chapters, and possibly add a commentary. And then burn the first copy
Post
#254919
Topic
Another bloody edit of TPM (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254919/action/topic#254919
Time
Hi!

I opened this thread and was so excited to find that you want to do this edit so it's compatible with SOTDS. It's very good timing, because SOTDS comes out this year for sure. As others have said, the "Starkiller" thread has some really good ideas regarding Episode I. Also, Erikstormtrooper's site contains a re-written Ep. I by MTHaslett, InfoDroid and Commander Courage (I think?). The funny thing is that I was never given the password to the script, even though I started the series

PADME: You're a pilot? (this could be dubbed into something else - is Padme dubbed in SOTDS?)

Unfortunately no. If anyone can find a woman willing to do ADR for three Star Wars movies, I'll gladly use the recordings and do SOTDS version 2.0. Since the mixes are pratically all recreated anyway, it'd be very easy to replace Portman in SOTDS, and it would actually create a cleaner sounding mix. Doing the other two movies is where it'd probably get difficult.

Speaking of dubbing, the Nemoidians are dubbed and subtitled for SOTDS in an obscure language (a variant of "Tagalog", I think. So when you're ready, you'll want to contact Sluggo with all of the lines you've written, so that they can be translated and recorded by his two friends, who did a very professional job with the lines.

Also, I introduced C-3PO in SOTDS, and there's a new backstory that goes with him (Anakin didn't build him).

And then there's the question... does Maul=Grievous? I'm actually not sure, and there's nothing in SOTDS that indicates one way or another.



ANAKIN: Hey, Sebulba, I thought I told you you could only pick on people as ugly as yourself.
SEBULBA: Like you, Skywalker? Human children don't just look bad, they smell bad.
ANAKIN: Dude, whatever.


Ha ha! In my opinion, Star Wars characters shouldn’t use modern words like “dude”, “man”, “cool”, “boyfriend”, “girlfriend”… “This party’s over!” Etc. My goal was to model the prequels after classic film. I always referred back to this, and the general feel is grittier and less "modern and sterilized", if you know what I mean. You'll definitely understand what I'm talking about after seeing SOTDS.

Also, technically speaking: SOTDS is in 2:35:1 anamorphic, with a stereo soundtrack (PCM and Dolby Digital depending on the edition). I'm trying to matrix it and make it Pro Logic compatible (so the stereo can be decoded into four channel surround), but I'm still uncertain about that.

Anyway, it's really wonderful that you are considering doing this- it's a LOT of tedious work, but there's a lot of fun that goes along with it, as you see the movie improve drastically before your eyes.

May the force be with you!