logo Sign In

Trooperman

User Group
Members
Join date
15-Feb-2005
Last activity
15-Jun-2015
Posts
1,406

Post History

Post
#268590
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/268590/action/topic#268590
Time
Well, the first half of January, I took a break from SOTDS and let it rest for a couple weeks.

Now, I'm locking the final picture cut and encoding it to MPEG. I have to say, so far the quality is very good to my eye. This is essentially one generation down from the DVD, but the image is somewhat softer than the original (which is what I wanted). I have finalized and encoded Section 1 and Section 10 (out of 20 sections). It's really fun to watch the finished material full-resolution, finally in the correct aspect ratio, more soft/natural, and with more subdued colors. I got excited all over again watching the original fox logo, the "Lucasfilm" logo, and the "Long time ago..." card come up in DVD quality. My encoding is planned for dual-layer size; I figure I can shrink it for single layer at a later point. Right now I just want to lose as little quality as possible.

February will be spent finalizing and encoding the remaining sections (I still have to rotoscope some lightsaber shots, and I'm still waiting on some analysis room effects shots from TJ- I haven't heard from him in a long time).

Then in March, I will join all 20 MPEG sections together using Womble (not having to reencode) and after burning to DVD for security, I will import the finished video track into a new project. One by one, I will import the many layers of original audio tracks into this new project, adjusting levels, putting all dialogue in a couple of designated tracks, and just in general organizing all of my audio for the next step.

So I will import and organize all of my audio in this new project, and then start substituting my new ADR recordings (which are more than 50% done) in for the old ones, and lock down the mix, minute by minute. After I feel good about the final mix, I will render it out, encode as AC3, and burn the first DVDs. A day that I am greatly looking forward to....

So honestly, the release date could be either March, April, or May. Honsestly, the most likely month is April. But as I said, May 25, 2007 is the ABSOLUTE deadline. Again, I'm sorry for the delay. Obviously if this was the only thing I did in life ithe movie would have been done ages ago. But 2007 is a good year to release! I see that MagnoliaFan is releasing an edit soon, and along with Star Wars Reborn, the Adywan edit, and others, this year is looking better and better for OT Star Wars fans.

The editor has spoken

P.S. If you have not PM'd me with your name for the credits, and you have made a contribution (however small), please do that for me...
Post
#268078
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/268078/action/topic#268078
Time
I think I am going to go ahead and put subtitles into the actual picture frame (although there will be an English player- generated subtitle track for the entire film- and hopefully Spanish, French, German, and others depending on who I can get to help out).


I'd vote for burned in, as long as you make sure everything is spelled right and is grammatically correct. Otherwise, it'll annoy the hell out of me everytime I watch it.

Although... If MagFan had burned in his subtitles for Balance of the Force, we'd never have been blessed with ADigitalMan's (in my opinion) far superior set of subtitles.

Something to think about.

Good point. But I am very, very particular about grammar. Case in point- the opening crawl. We argued about the grammar for about 2 pages until we were absolutely sure that what we ended up with was right. But that was a tricky situation- usually, I'm very certain about what's correct and what isn't.

And that's honestly my biggest irritation with the MagnoliaFan edits- not the backwards language, but the misspelled subtitles. But I've never watched it with ADM's subtitles.

So it's a given that there will not be errors in the subtitles- actually, I kind of feel better about burning them in so that some random person can't change the dialogue without my permission....
Post
#267956
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267956/action/topic#267956
Time
Thanks for the encouragement.

Actually, I’d been meaning to ask all of you something- As I’m screening the movie again and making my list of video corrections, I come to the issue of subtitles.

How do you think the subtitles should be handled? Burned in on the actual frame (‘93/’95 font), burned in on the lower black bar (‘93/’95 font), or player-generated? I like the “burned in on the actual frame” option because it gives me the feeling that it is exactly as it would be presented in a theatre; also, it enables me to make the captions fade quickly in and out, which I couldn’t do were the subtitles player-generated. I’ve checked, and the actual subtitles for the theatrical prequels (not on official DVD) DID fade in and fade out.

This is a good time for any last thoughts anyone has about subtitles…

Post
#267014
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267014/action/topic#267014
Time
I know nobody's going to come out and say it, but I think it's pretty safe to say that we're all impatient for this to come out (myself included). I think I can carry it off by March if all works out well and I can get all of those new recordings in on time.

But if worst comes to worst, I will release it May 25, 2007. And that is the ABSOLUTE deadline.
Post
#266813
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266813/action/topic#266813
Time
Thanks again for giving me feedback, everyone. I'm rerecording the dialogue now, but I'm not looking at the footage and trying to achieve perfect lip-synch. I've read the lines so many times that I will be able to make them synch.

And I'll check out some of those animated "making-of" docs- it sounds very interesting.

Sorry I don't have any more to report- I'm working finalizing and encoding the video, and after that, I'll begin replacing the old recordings with the new ones to get the best performance and sound. In a fairly short time frame....

-TM
Post
#265336
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/265336/action/topic#265336
Time
if getting a non actor to just lay down dialogue I always have them stand up at the mic and 'act' out the scene while standing there, they get more into the role that way and the recording is often more natural, probably also because they move arround more so you don't get the constant volume level that screams 'recorded later'. I never have them sitting down, it always gives a lackluster performance for some reason.

Wow- why didn't that occur to me? I did all of my recording sitting down, not acting out the part, and close to the mic (hence the constant volume level).


At this point, my friend, as controversial as all of this is, I think it's clear you've got to devote some serious thought to doing a version which retains Hayden's original voice in addition to the one you've already dubbed. As repugnant as it is to you, it may satisfy those less bothered by Hayden's performance. That way, people will have a choice.

You know that if you don't, then as soon as you release this thing someone else will immediately pull it apart and do a version that may not be up to the same level of quality that you'd like, and by that time it'd be out of your hands. I'd say it would be better for you the editor to do it before anyone else.

Good point. I really can't stand the thought of someone tearing apart my movie- better to deliver everything from the get-go. It honestly wouldn't be difficult to put Hayden back in at the end for an alternate audio option- the only hard part would be dealing with the lines I've changed. Putting Hayden back in would involve some serious compromises creatively. But it's possible, and that way, there'd be something for everyone.


The good news is that I can put anyone in for Anakin if they do a good job. Myself, Hayden, myself doing a second run, or another actor. I am definitely not going to make the base mix WITHOUT Anakin's voice available to public, because then anyone could edit/dub SOTDS how they see fit. But if someone wanted to do Anakin, it would be very easy to put them in. Actually, my dream scenario would be a guy and a girl (actors) volunteering to do Padme and Anakin and doing it in the same room. I think that would bump up the realism considerably.

But I think I began to realize something after reading this comment:

no one has yet uttered one negative comment about the Lama Su voice, and most people I've discussed it with think it's really great (based on the snippet we've seen from the trailer).

This is true. Lama-Su sounded great with minimal effort. Nute Gunray sounded great with minimal effort. Jar-Jar and others sound great... with minimal effort.

The reason Anakin's taking me so long to get right is because... it was recorded badly. It's never going to be "right", or up to professional standards, unless I do it again. I was sitting down, recording close to the microphone, and probably focusing more on lip synch than on actually acting out the part.

Here's my plan. I'm not going to spend any more time mixing Anakin's voice just yet.

A) I'm going to finish all of the video, encode it, and put it on to DVD. Done.
B) I'm going to tweak the sound mix- except for Anakin's voice. His voice will be muted in this version.
C) Synch, burn, and put DVD in.
D) Run the movie and do a "retake" of Anakin. I'll be standing up. I'll be acting the part out. I'll walk when he walks. Actually get angry when he gets angry. Etc. I can be far away from the mike, too. My equipment is good enough to where it'll pick it up very clearly even at a distance.

Then, I'll drop this newly recorded dialogue into the picture, tweak it, and finish the sound mix. Because I think that the amount of time spent on Anakin thus far has been to make something that doesn't work work, and that if I do a new recording in the way Laserman suggested, mixing Anakin will be as easy as mixing Lama-Su and the others.

You guys have opened my eyes quite a bit. Thank you.

More later...
Post
#264959
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/264959/action/topic#264959
Time
OK. No reason to get excited- I appreciate all feedback.

I recognize that there’s a problem with the voice, mostly in the mixing because it has to blend with everything else, synch with the video, and sound realistic. The reason that I’m taking longer is largely to work on the voice. And it is discouraging- very, very hard to make it work. And it’s not working yet.

Regarding acting: I am not a professional actor, and listening critically to the nightclub scene, I see that the tone of voice I’ve used here is a little weird. Also, I wasn’t talking loudly enough at the time (I hadn’t come up with the idea of all of the background chatter/music yet), so I had to bump the volume of the recording up to be heard. Another strike against a “natural” sound. And finally, the nightclub was the first clip in which I was experimenting with analogue processing to make it sound like an older recording. I’m a lot more familiar with it now, and looking back, I certainly overdid it and distorted it too much.

There are a couple other scenes and lines scattered throughout the picture that I’ll redo. But for the most part, I honestly don’t believe my acting is lacking. I should probably post a couple other clips for you to check out.

But I understand what a couple people are saying- this is too good to be brought down by bad voice work, either acting-wise or mixing-wise. With the whole film in front of me, I can pretty confidently say that most of the problems pertain to the mixing and not the acting.

If the voice is not completely up to snuff by the time release date rolls around, there are a couple things I can do.

1. Include an alternate audio track and put Hayden back in (although the initial reason for this was to take him out and start over with Anakin’s character)
2. Send all of the audio to a professional who can use their knowledge to take my mix, go back to the source recordings, and make it better (and I have gotten a couple of offers)
3. Release an “updated” audio track later on as my response to any of the criticisms.

However, I really hope to be able to take the next month or two and solely work on integrating Anakin’s dialogue into the rest of the mix. This type of attention has not started yet, and it’s reasonable that people would have objections to hearing Anakin’s dialogue that way in the finished film.

I understand that this factor is critical, so I’ll be devoting a lot of time to ensure that it doesn’t fall flat or become laughable. That would kill me…

Have to go now- very busy. Sorry for all the great previous feedback I haven't gotten to- I just wanted to step in and point out that you are not hearing the final mix in the shots containing Anakin.
Post
#263614
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263614/action/topic#263614
Time
Thanks for the feedback- I think I will go through and use this.

The only problem I see with the transition is that the very beginning is a bit warmer-sounding than the replacement track, which pretty much the only thing that gives it away.

Yes, I hear this as well. I can fix that easily, probably using an earlier recording as you suggested. To be honest, I didn't spend much time on this- I was just listening to the Gerhardt album and thinking how similar the two tracks were. Then, I synched it up to the video, changed the key of the opening fanfare to make it work, and it worked really well (I thought).

In fact, I'm kind of embarassed to say that a lot of the best parts of this movie were happy accidents, or crazy "What if..." ideas that actually really improved the thing...


EDIT:


P.S. - You do realize that this change alone is going to DEMAND a Trooperman Prequel Trilogy now.... Right?


Well, at bare minimum I need to dub Anakin for ROTS, the new main titles must be inserted into ROTS and Ep. I, Weezer and/or THX have to come back and dub the stormtroopers, Sluggo and Company must return to record Nemodians and Jar-Jar.

For Episode I, I was really hoping someone else would tackle that- I really don't have a whole lot of time to "play around" with Star Wars after SOTDS.

Episode III- I'm really distressed about. Fundamentally, I'm not seeing a way to turn it into a good movie. With Episode II, largely with the help of Mark Haslett, we were able to twist the basic story into something that's good and coherent and redefine Anakin. With Episode III, what can you do? Yoda and Sidious have a lightsaber fight that ends for no reason at all. ??? Palpatine has ridiculous looking makeup after zapping himself with his lightning (rather than a slow Dark Side corruption as was being strongly implied in Episode II). ??? Then there's the whole General Grievous problem. Is he Darth Maul? Does that stretch the limits of believability? I guess it's no worse than finding out that 3 out of the 4 main characters from completely different backgrounds are all in the same immediate family in ROTJ...

Maybe this is material for a new thread...
Post
#263516
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263516/action/topic#263516
Time
Happy New Year to everyone!

Well, bad news. I'm going to have to use March to finish this up.


I know what you're all thinking. "He's never going to finish this thing. He keeps pushing the deadline." Well, I really wanted to have it done by Jan/Feb, but various things got in the way. Real life. That's all I can say.

The structure is done- the movie is cut from start to finish. Colors/framing/cutting is practically done- over this month I'll just be fixing encoding errors, tweaking things, making the CGI blend more, etc. But I need longer to fix the audio- there are sections where it's just in shambles.

----------------------

With that having been said, I have a new clip for you- SOTDS with a new Star Wars theme: link

Before you say I'm crazy for considering using a different title theme, consider my reasoning:

When Star Wars came out, the title music was fresh, new, and exciting. Now, it's the part people fast-forward through because they've seen it a million times. Some months ago, someone on the forum made the comment (not in this thread) that wouldn't it have been neat if Williams had written a "prequel" Star Wars theme, so that when people watching the saga got to Ep. IV, they'd be hit in the face with the classic Star Wars theme, which would represent the "new hope" of the rebellion.

My second point is that this is by Erich Wolfgang Korngold, whose music was the inspiration for John Williams AND George Lucas as well. This is a little known fact, but George Lucas bought an album called "The Sea Hawk", a recording of Korngold's film music by Charles Gerhardt, and it was this that inspired him to request the same type of score from J. Williams- he even mentioned "The Sea Hawk" in the conversation.

The main title music I have used comes from this same album that was the original inspiration in the first place.

And finally, it's very possible that this was actually the main title theme used in the original TEMP TRACK for Star Wars- notice the similarity to the original Star Wars theme.

Let me know what you guys think...
Post
#261957
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261957/action/topic#261957
Time
I just want to thank everyone for the massive imput and suggestions you've given- I'm glad that it general, I think I did most things right.

Thanks to everyone with positive feedback, but I'm just going to address the helpful criticisms (not much time):

Music in the nightclub sounds a little too clinical. maybe adding some echo to it and maybe dampen down the top end would help make it sound more like it is eminating from the club.

Done. It was a quick fix, and after comparing it to the catina in "Star Wars", that's what felt weird about the music. After mellowing it out a little and cutting off some frequencies, it sounds a lot better.

I was just thinking... maybe you should just axe all the dialogue between anakin and obiwan as they saunter into the club like gansters. I remember watching an old movie that had characters enter in a similar style and they were also talking, but you couldn't hear what they were saying amongst all the surrounding crowd voices until we moved into close-up and they became more audible...

That's actually a really good idea- only I don't think I'll just axe all of it (their lips are moving). I think I'll have it audible up until Anakin's "Don't say that, Master". Then, I'll dial the other three lines so low in the mix that their inaudible, because they really aren't necessary. And having the dialogue drowned out at that point is just another step in the attempt to make the voice seem recorded "on-set".


The dubbing of Hayden is really well done, but it's just too distracting for me. I hope I'm the only one. That one thing sort of detracts from the other beautiful work you've done, and I don't know that it's something I could get used to. I tried to get used to the american version of Mad Max for 10 years and I never could. If you had an alternate audio track with Hayden's real voice, I think you'd have a home run. If the other feedback on the voice is good and you're happy with it, please ignore me. The "vibe" of the scene was truly excellent.

I'm sorry to hear this- as for me personally, I'm more used to the new voice than the old voice- in fact, when I play back the original voice, it's almost a little jarring for me now. Of course, that's because I've been working with this so much. I can see how the voice might be jarring, but I hope you can get used to it; the problem with reinserting Hayden is A) We're right back to where we started with Darth Vader being badly acted/portrayed, and B) There are several scenes that have an entirely different meaning which would be impossible to replicate with the available Hayden dialogue.

I'll be experimenting with "garbling" the dialogue to make it sound more natural- but that's all I can do at this point.

I'm not sure I understand the last shot of a stream of smoke rising from somewhere and going somewhere-- what is it? I kind of like it, but wish I knew what it was.

Just smoke coming out of the chimney- an establishing shot. It was an attempt to give it some kind of style, but I'll reconsider whether it really needs to be there. It could be that I originally inserted it because of music timing- I'll have to check.

The only time I really noticed it was the front shot of Harrison drinking that martini looking thing.

I'll just use this quote to represent all of the comments about Harrison Ford. Watching it, I do agree that that third shot of Harrison drinking goes too far. It's funny, because I thought about this, but thought it'd be okay because we never have a full frontal shot of him. Funny how easily identifiable he is just by his eyebrows and his haircut! The question then becomes what to replace the drinking shot and the second Harrison shot with (the one with the woman smoking behind him). I need to fill that time because I worked out the (ambient) music timing very specifically.

Also, I don't have that new high-quality DVD of Blade Runner that came out recently; the only shots I have were actually ripped from the HD broadcast of BR by ShiftyEyes, another member of this forum. But if anyone has any suggestions for replacement shots, I'll see if that would be possible...

Plus, have it start (or be in progress) at the Jedi's entrance to the club, not a few seconds later.

Good idea.

The sound is the real miracle here. All of the mish-mashed dialogue and chattering and laughing... All of that combined with the new lighting goes a LONG way in altering the viewer's perception of the club as actually being populated. The club is alive now, and even better than that, it feels threatening.

Hi, ID! I was hoping someone would bring this up. The background sound in the club is almost entirely all new elements, recorded by myself, Sluggo, and a couple of Sluggo's friends, and I think it's clear that this gave a hugely different effect to the scene (combined with the music).

Also, one thing I've changed was that after Obi-Wan slices Zam, in the original version, there was almost non-existent music and close-ups of people looking shocked. You hear some woman say "Oh my god!" in the background, in a perfect 21st century voice.

For SOTDS, I had silence, and then everyone starts laughing before we cut outside. It may seem like a small thing, but it made a huge difference in the "threatening" nature of the scene, I thought.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone for commenting- I really appreciate it and I hope to have this film available as soon as possible.

Oh, and I really like your sig, MTH!

-TM
Post
#261755
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261755/action/topic#261755
Time
Oh, and here is that clip that you all requested: Nightclub

Sorry for the large filesize (44 meg). If someone could upload it to Youtube, that'd be great so that more people can access it.

There are a couple minor issues (which I'm not going to tell you about yet), but this is pretty much it. I know I've used footage from another film (Blade Runner), but seeing as Lucas actually copied Blade Runner in several very obvious places in Ep. II, I didn't have as much of a problem with it.

Hope you like it. Merry Christmas

Post
#261752
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261752/action/topic#261752
Time
Thanks to everyone for your wonderful comments.

MTH:

Great ideas on the wedding- you nailed down the problem exactly (which I couldn't explain).

What makes th wedding/kiss so bad? It feels awkward to me. They kiss like teenagers on a date. The sequence has no grace in its cutting-- a moving shot cuts to a static shot that starts moving a fraction of a second later, then to another static shot that starts moving a fraction of a second later. Then more awkward, hesitant kissing and "meaningful" glances that convey no meaning.

Exactly. The only issue with cutting it as you described is that I'll need to come up with a couple more shots to pad out the time for the music, which I can't cut.

guess the reason that scene has never stuck out and bothered me was that there was a lot of other crap that came before it.

That is a VERY good point- in fact, it might be why it didn't stick out as much until this late in the game (although it was noticeably bad). But now, contrasting it with the rest of the movie, you get to this scene and realize how pathetic it is.

I hate how the camera is constantly moving in the PT!

It's because they were worried the CGI wouldn't be credible (and they had every right to be). Of course I don't mind good camera-work (I've added several zooms and camera moves myself, but it's been on scenes involving the actors), but I too like more static shots when we're dealing with SPFX.

The most crippling aspect, imho, is how the camera moves around so much-- those computer made mattes allow the camera to do things that weren't possible during the OT-- so we get stuck with footage that will never match (unless Trooperman pulls off some magic).

Maybe I can pull on a little magic Here's a quick test (the shot with the clones marching was original a moving camera shot, but is now more stable): test

Maybe hit some of your female friends up for advice on this particular element of your edit. While this might seem a crazy hair brained idea, remember distance from a project and fresh eyes (namely audiences who don't frequent SW forums or who aren't as familiar with the films) can offer great insight into something you might have otherwise missed.

Actually not out of the question. When this is done, I may be able to arrange a screening with about a dozen people who have never heard about this edit before (but in general are Star Wars fans). It would be interesting.

As for the scene with Padme pleading to the Senate, I agree that the acting was a little better than normal. The only two issues are: A) I already used a couple crowd shots from this in the "Emergency Powers" Senate scene, and B) I lose the great transition from Corde's death to the man responsible, Palpatine (which I've indicated in the soundtrack). The only way around this would be to place the deleted scene BETWEEN Palpatine's conference and the arrival of Anakin/Obi-Wan, but then you might tend to wonder why she changes into new clothes for the Senate and then changes back into the previous ones for meeting Obi-Wan in Anakin. A continuity problem unless this takes place over the span of a couple days. I just wish they did it like the OT, rather than having Padme wear something completely different every scene- it starts to create problems.

I have a totally tech-ignorant suggestion. Use the HD version (which should be available soon) of this scene and do a handmade "pan and scan". Figure out what portion of the scene you want to focus on, then (the hard part) zoom in on just that part and stabilize it as the camera moves.

Good idea....

Why do I feel a July release date coming soon... =)

Not going to happen. I know I've pushed the date back a couple of times, but this is really it. It's just a lot of footage to color-correct, crop, and etc., and then I'll have to go back through and fix the encoding glitches, and then I'll polish the audio mix, and then the film will be ready to serve.

A better idea might be to utilize the HD version when I do a dual-layer version, and replace the shots that will suffer in quality, because the DVD resolution might not hold up so well when I crop and zoom on shots and encode to dual-layer. I think this is a good idea....
Post
#261100
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261100/action/topic#261100
Time
Also, 108 min. is not too short if the movie is good length shouldn't matter.

That's kind of what I was thinking as well. I've watched most of my movie now (although in pieces, and containing encoding errors). I think IF I can get the whole "natural-sounding voice" thing worked out, then this thing will be gold. I honestly believe that.

My plan is this- I've downloaded a trial version of the "Antares Tube" plugin and another plugin as well. What these do is they create the sound of the recordings as if they were being played back on analogue equipment, in a very high-quality and unique way. Here's the catch- I don't have a ton of money and these plugins are very expensive.

These trial versions are actually full-featured for 14 days. So what I'm going to do is get the film completely ready in every other way, and then either in Jan. or in Feb. (hopefully not Feb.), I will install the plugin and work like mad to get the sound I want on all of the dialogue in that period of time...
Post
#261097
Topic
Idea: Fan Edit of ROTJ
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261097/action/topic#261097
Time
Originally posted by: InfoDroid
MTH, why do you always put out these outlines that make me want to edit the movie that way?!?! Gaahhh!!!

Ha ha- that was my reaction after reading that outline. Makes you want to boot up your PC, copy the ROTJ files, and get to work right away!

Then I wake up and realize that I'm having trouble even getting SOTDS on time with my life right now- no way I have time to do this right now.


Someday.... Someday... Maybe we'll actually finish one of these things. lol


I know I've kept pushing back the date, but trust me that you all will be seeing SOTDS within the next couple months. This is great- 2007 is the 30th anniversary of the release of Star Wars, and this is pretty much Star Wars year for all the fan edits:

SOTDS, the Godfather-II saga, ROTJ .83 MS edition, Adywan's "Star Wars", Tellan's "Star Wars"... the list goes on and on. Maybe they could all be put in a fan-made 30th anniversary boxed set. It'd sure beat anything Lucas could come up with...

Post
#261090
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261090/action/topic#261090
Time
If people don't seem to mind the end, then I guess I'll leave it. I really like the idea of ending with the kiss on the balcony scene; trouble is, I already used part of it as follow-up to the rejection, so it would be repeat footage. Can’t do it. Also, you’re losing Anakin with his golden claw, which is probably an important part to keep.

I just have a real problem with the way it was done. In the past, watching AOTC with others, there were just a lot of smirks and laughs at the way this was done (including myself). Maybe it’s just because I’ve seen much, much better. Maybe I just haven’t watched enough recent movies to know any better, I don’t know- maybe it’s fine by modern standards.

To be blunt, I just think it’s really bad, but I guess there’s not much to be done about it. Thank goodness for John Williams for making the scene at least watcheable.

-------------------

I'm worried that 108 minutes is too short for a Star Wars movie. Perhaps I could add a re-edited version of Padme's plea to the Senate. It is a really tight film now (as it should be), but I guess the problem is that there are very few long dialogue scenes, usually because part of the scene was unusable. The exceptions to this would be the two Lama-Su scenes, the fireplace scene with Padme and Anakin, and a few others.

But I want this to feel like a full-fledged movie, and now I realize that I have more than enough room to flesh out the story a little bit. I deleted the deleted scene (that sounds funny) between Mace and Obi-Wan because it was visually boring and all they talk about are Anakin's childhood attraction to Padme (*snip*) and "the prophecy", which left me without a scene long enough to be included.

Hope this makes sense...
Post
#260951
Topic
Idea: Fan Edit of ROTJ
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260951/action/topic#260951
Time
Great ideas, MTH, as usual. I still think that ROTJ is far, far above any of the prequels, due to the actors, the music score, and the cinematography. But there are disappointing things (like Han's line, "Hey! It's me!" and Leia's "But these are my friends! They must be set free!")

The only thing I would change is- I would keep the unmasking and the ghosts at the end- there's a lot of symbolism there.

Also, I know this can't be fixed (except taking out particularly ugly shots), but what on earth happened to Carrie Fisher? There's a huge difference between Empire and Jedi.
Post
#260950
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260950/action/topic#260950
Time
108 minutes

I just did all of the math today and discovered the running time as of this time. 108. Wow! I could’ve sworn that it was longer than that- that’s over half an hour shorter than the original cut and 16 minutes shorter than the original Star Wars. Raiders of the Lost Ark is 7 minutes longer. And I salvaged so many bad scenes and turned them into good ones. But then I took inventory and realized just how much I really did throw out (not including reworkings and medium to small cuts- these are the huge ones):


AXED:

Part of opening scene (after explosion)
*Elevator scene
Both Jango/Zam scenes
Part of Obi-Wan/Anakin fight
*Part of Coruscant chase
Part of Jedi Council meeting
*Long scene in Padme’s bedroom (Anakin whines and establishes himself as stalker)
*Mace/Obi-Wan/Yoda scene (irretrievable)
Part of Coruscant departure scene (all the m’lady stuff)
*Dex’s Diner scene
Much of the Yoda/Younglings scene
Some of the en route scene
*Queen Jamilla scene
Much of the balcony scene
*Aggressive negotiations scene
Much of the fireplace rejection scene
A lot of the droid factory
Most of the Yoda/Dooku fight



So taking this into consideration and thinking about all the other cuts that were made on top of this, I guess I can see how I lost half an hour of footage, even with the 3 or 4 new scenes I’ve included.

------------------
Anyway, things are really coming along now. The video should be locked, encoded, and burned onto a hard copy by the end of the year, hopefully giving me all of the remaining time to focus on audio.


As a side-note, I’m looking at the very end of the movie now, and I’m really appalled- I think this wins 1st place for the most stupid looking kiss scene ever put to film (or pixels, actually). Absolutely pathetic, lifeless, and laughable.

Any suggestions? This is the last thing the audience sees, and I really wish I could do something about it…

-TM
Post
#259808
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259808/action/topic#259808
Time
I have an idea:

I know how disappointed all you guys are that this will be done next year in a couple months. instead of this year like I had promised. To make up and to prepare you for what is to come, I think this month of December I'm going to show you an exciting sequence from the movie in its complete form, so that you can see all the changes in context. If you want to be surprised, of course... don't watch It seems to me that this would be even better than a trailer, because you'll really get a feel for what this movie's about. To make up for not releasing the movie this year, you get to watch a scene in its entirety.

Here's a list of choices (there are certain scenes I don't want to give you, like the arena or the clone war. I also don't really want to give you a scene heavy on the Anakin voice because the sound of that is still being worked on. I'm trying to get a plugin that gives the digital recordings that warm, "analogue" sound that retains the low register of my recordings, which is probably the whole key to this puzzle).

-The Nightclub (new colors, new background music by Mancini, and Blade Runner footage! I heartily recommend this one for getting the overall style of the thing. This does NOT feel like a recent movie in any way).
-Lama-Su's Brave New World (hear a complete scene with Lama-Su performed by Tim. Hear the Kotor march when the clones are revealed, and hear the new backstory about the clones and the Fett family)
-Asteroid Field (very prominent new music, some different sound effects)
-Jango vs. Obi-Wan (new sound mix, impact flashes, and very familiar music!)
-The Droid Factory (no C3PO antics, R2 saves the day without flying, different music, dark, mood setting colors, and an very good Jason Windgreen impression by Weezer)

You must choose one. But choose wisely. For as the truly outstanding clip will bring you great entertainment, the false one will...

I'll stop now
Post
#258960
Topic
Dolby Pro-Logic Encoding/Decoding
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/258960/action/topic#258960
Time
Thanks a lot for that advice, Moth3r.

So I started up BeSweet and muxed my six mono WAV files into a single 5.1 WAV file. So far so good.

Then, I found out that it seems BeSweet can't downmix a 5.1 WAV to a matrixed stereo WAV. Apparently it has to be an AC3 track?

All I want to do is get a PCM stereo track that can be decoded into surround- I don't want to convert it to AC3 at any point in the process and lose quality. Do you know if there's any way that this could be done?

Thanks so much!
Post
#258959
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/258959/action/topic#258959
Time
Thank you to all who commented on the voice- I'm trying out some new techniques/filters, so what you heard is definitely not final yet. Bespinsec, who's an actual audio engineer, very kindly PMd me with advice on this. We want to bring that warm, "analogue" quality to these modern digital recordings, and still keep the low end of Anakin's voice (so it isn't shrill or tinny). Otherwise it's not going to work too well.

Originally posted by: Marvolo
The problem with releasing an unfinished product is people ( not refering to the members of this site) will hear about the edit and download the rough cut and not like the flaws. So in turn they will not download the updated version, thinking it not worth the time, and then they will post bad reviews about it on websites like TF.N. I say take your time and do it right TM.

That's kind of what I'm thinking. After all this time and work, I really don't want people criticizing something that isn't even finished- it would really make me sad. Especially when the end is just a couple months away. The new voices and the believability of the new ADR will make or break this film, and I've GOT to get it right before people see it. Every person that saw an unfinished cut of this would not get the effect of seeing this film the way I want them to see it for the first time- their initial impression would be incorrect.

TM will heed whatever feedback he gets and fix any technical errors before the DL release. Right now I am sure he just wants to be done with it more than any of us want to see it.


Bingo I'll take my break in between single-layer and dual-layer releases. Not that I didn't really enjoy editing this movie and brainstorming ideas, but right now, I just want to finish it and pick up life where I left off...