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Tiptup

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4-May-2006
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26-Apr-2012
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Post
#240461
Topic
The Artistic Vision (TM Luca$hFilm)
Time
Originally posted by: Scruffy
I cannot confirm or deny what other properties Lucas might've been interested in -- I've always heard he wanted to buy the rights to Star Trek, which is about as un-Star Wars as space opera can get -- but I agree that he's more interested in fluff, marketing, and playing with new toys under the guise of "experimental film-making." That's not to say he's unaware of the more serious aspects that evolved in the OT or the gravity which they lend the films.

He put a few attempts at a moral or drama into the PT, but they fell flat -- as did his attempts to explain them in the media. "You see, Anakin's problem is he holds onto what he really wants, he can't let go, so he becomes evil." That's the kind of broad moralistic statement that withstands superficial scrutiny, but in the context of the film -- if you look at what Anakin was holding onto (the life of his wife) and why he was doing it (presumably love for her and his child) -- it doesn't hold water. (In fact, I don't think the statement withstands even superficial scrutiny. There's nothing inherently wrong with desiring things.)

Same thing with his grand statements about "how a democracy becomes a dictatorship." A ninja-magician cons a frog-donkey-man into giving a speech in the worst-constituted parliament ever seen on film, gets himself elected chancellor ("Chancellor! Me!"), connives to secretly raise two separate warring armies, and utilizes another ninja-magician to wipe out the last of his opposition. Again, there are some superficial similarities between this and other autocratic governments -- dictators tend to wipe out their opposition and take control of the armed forces -- but the memoirs of the Caesars this is not.

I suppose fluff is okay, if that's your thing, but these hare-brained attempts to imbue it with gravitas just make Lucas look foolish.


That's a great post. I can't stand the nonsense that Lucas tries to preach about in his latest films. In fact, the hypocritical ethics he implied in Revenge of the Sith are offensive to me. Even worse is the way he tries to change the meaning of original trilogy events like Vader's last-minute repentance.

As for my opinion concerning this thread's topic, I believe Lucas didn't like the serious depth that the original Star Wars portrayed. If anything, that was probaby an accident on his part (emulating great films). Having those elements further explored and added upon in Empire probably left Lucas very unhappy. It seems his ultimate vision was making money and in that he believed super-happy adventures for children would earn him the most.
Post
#240328
Topic
What movies do you consider canon?
Time
It's a referrence to the church and how it recognized certain books of the bible as the word of God and rejected certain others. It's that which is genuine.

For me, in terms of Star Wars, the original film gets the most respect, followed by Empire and most of Jedi as well. Then, in the PT, I vaguely accept a few measely plot points in a way where I try to ignore the rest.
Post
#240322
Topic
Star Trek gets better treatment than Star Wars...
Time
After reading the TV Guide quote that Ozkeeper posted I am now definitely skeptical of this. I don't care what Okuda thinks Roddenberry would have wanted to do if he had possessed today's technology. The original show was made in the 60's with cheesy backdrops and sets. It was an idea of what the future would look like from that time and not today. The plain look of the Enterprise's sets are going to look drastically out of place next to complicated and shiny, computer-rendered models. Also, they're changing the space ports to have extra people and more life? I don't like this.

Sure, I'll withhold my judgement untill I see it, but this is most likely going to be way overdone.
Post
#239922
Topic
2006 OT DVD: Poll: So What are You Going to Do?
Time
Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
There will be further releases of the OOT on DVD and I refuse to settle for another transfer from the 1993 remasters. I already have letterbox, stereo editions on PAL VHS and have no need for any more.


Yeah, definitely correct. It will be re-released eventually and I'm sure that at that time GL will think it was all his idea. I'm going to wait as well.
Post
#239525
Topic
How George Lucas created the O-OT fanbase...
Time
Originally posted by: Number20
DVD is going to be around a good while longer, IMHO. As said before, there simply isn't enough reason for people to adopt a HD format. Besides a format war that has many people scared off, most people just don't have an HDTV, and therefore can't use a high def disc. Secondly, there isn't as much consumer reason to adopt high def formats. Laserdisc didn't replace VHS because to most people there wasn't a good reason to adopt a laserdisc. They were expensive, and had a better video and audio, but not that much better to compel people to buy them. So they remained in the realm of the audiophiles. DVD was a big leap forward. Complete with deleleted scenes, bonus features, alternate audio, commentary, much better sound, etc,people saw a huge difference and went to DVD. Now comes along high def DVDs. Most people don't have HDTVs, and aren't going to be getting them anytime soon. They aren't willing to buy another copy of their favorite film in less than 10 years, for not much difference. They already have extras, and the difference between HD and standard DVDs aren't enough in most people's minds to switch. They are simply satisfied with what they have and don't want anything new. "top-down" pressure isn't enough to force adoption.
An example of this is DVD-Audio. That was supposed to be much better than CD, and was supported enthusiasically by the music industry. But it failed miserably because nobody wanted it.


First, read my posts.

Secondly, Laserdisc didn't replace VHS because it wasn't really that great of a format. For one thing, and perhaps most importantly, it was a mammoth disc that people didn't like to handle and were easy to damage. After that, very little video could be fit on one side of a disc requiring people to flip them all the time and require the existence of multiple discs for one film. And lastly, consumers couldn't record their own content (which was extremely important to the success of VHS). Even considering all of that though, Laserdisc was a very popular format in Japan where "top-down" pressure helped ensure consumer awareness and cheap prices (in North America Laserdisc got no such treatment).

Thirdly, as I said in another thread, CD audio already produces sound at a level of quality where the human ear can't notice anything better for all practical purposes. HD resolution and less audio/video compression for movies (with the larger data capacity) make both HD-DVD and BD a very noticeable leap forward in quality. With "top down" pressure that quality product shouldn't be unsuccessful.
Post
#239508
Topic
How George Lucas created the O-OT fanbase...
Time
Originally posted by: lordjedi
And I still can't understand why the movies that have been released on blu-ray aren't using the VC-1 codec. It's sure leaving a bad taste in the early adopters mouths.


Yeah, definitely. My guess would be that, since BD didn't have support for VC-1 as early as HD-DVD, a number of the earliest titles began production using Mpeg-2. Then, with the investment made, they didn't want to start over with VC-1. Mpeg-2 still looks respectable on a single-layer BD so long as your movies are under two hours and are properly mastered, but still not quite as good as VC-1. It's kind of retarded that they didn't implement something this important earlier.
Post
#239395
Topic
So, what would happen if he did release the OOT on DVD?
Time
To make a quick point, trying to upgrade to a different audio format from CDs is not at all like the upgrade to HD visuals. HD-quality visuals look quite a bit better on an HD-DVD format if you were to purchase a big screen with 1080p capability. And not only is the resolution higher, but with the added space on an HD-DVD or BD, you can have less information loss due to the video or audio compression. Less compression means better quality. CDs on the other hand already have enough space to reproduce sound in a way where the human ear can't really notice "better" quality.
Post
#239394
Topic
Star Trek gets better treatment than Star Wars...
Time
Originally posted by: Scruffy
But the new Connie and K-7 models seen in Trials and Tribbletions and In a Mirror Darkly are really, really good. We're not talking about adding in floating droids and rontos parading around Cestus III, just replacing some 60s opticals with better composites of faithfully recreated models. Maybe adding some gradients or highlights to the various energy cloud effects out there.

Star Trek was intended to be viewed on a color NTSC television. (There were a few film presentations, but it was always meant to be a TV show.) DVD pretty much saturates the quality available from such a set, so I'm happy with the TOS DVDs. The original episodes -- insofar as the DVDs reflect those -- will always be available, as long as there's one Trekkie left to make a copy of them. Now that we are "upgrading" from the producer's intended medium to something better, it may be appropriate to insert better visual effects.


You make a great point there. I loved that episode of Deep Space Nine where they went back in time and were on the enterprise during the trouble-with-tribbles incident. The special effects shots were of the older ships but of a much higher quality and looked great. It would really be sweet to see a faithful reproduction of the original effects shots in a way where they simply looked better, especially for HD-DVD. Yet I wouldn't want the original effects shots to not be seen at all in an HD format. What would be great is if they made the HD releases to seamlessly switch to the original effects shots if you were to choose a different "play" option from the menu! (Go, go, 50 GB BD!!!)

Originally, all I wanted the SE of Star Wars to be was a simple updating of the original effects. Have everything be absolutely faithful to the original artistry but upgraded in a technical sense. That would have been beautiful as an alternate version of Star Wars. Instead we got a sloppy job that mostly added new crap that nobody in their right mind would ever have wanted. To make it worse we still aren't even allowed to see a version of the originals in new, DVD-dedicated master yet. >
Post
#239392
Topic
How George Lucas created the O-OT fanbase...
Time
I've heard those comparison problems were due mostly to improper mastering on the part of the studios. As for the rest of the difference, double-layered BDs will be coming before the end of the year and Warner just recenty anounced BD titles that will use the VC-1 codec. This winter is when the real "war" will begin to take place. I doubt any real victor will be known for years to come though. Since both formats are so widely supported at the moment, they might end up existing side-by-side for a long time. That wouldn't bother me too much.
Post
#239275
Topic
Star Trek gets better treatment than Star Wars...
Time
Hmm, not sure I'm too excited about the redone special effects for the series. If they're done to preserve the original effects shots then that will be cool. Otherwise I'd prefer the older effects shots to be cleaned up only and would always want a version like that to take priority.

I have always liked Star Trek in the way it has tried to serve its fans. George Lucas should get a clue.
Post
#239085
Topic
How George Lucas created the O-OT fanbase...
Time
Originally posted by: lord3vil
Originally posted by: Tiptup

I just read an interview of his where he said the original Star Wars was only 25% of what he wanted.
This is most likely incorrect. Lucas likes to portray himself as a visionary by revision, so it is possibly true that the original Star Wars is only 25% of what he would have preferred it to be today. However, going by the interviews he gave back in the day, the original Star Wars came pretty close to what he actually wanted back then, even though it still wasn't quite 100% perhaps.


Very true. I never meant to imply that Lucas was saying anything close to the truth in the quote I mentioned. Based upon his rough story ideas and the way he invented elements on the spot, I can't see how he can argue that much of anything was outside of what he wanted besides some technical feats.


Originally posted by: Scruffy
So far, the superior specifications of Blu-ray have not been realized. All Blu-ray titles to date are 25GB, while HD DVD titles can be 30GB. (I don't know if 30GB discs make up the majority of HD DVD releases, but I suspect they do.) All Blu-ray titles to date have used MPEG-2, while HD DVD uses VC-1. HD DVD supports Dolby and DTS lossless audio, while the only mandatory lossless codec for Blu-Ray is PCM (yes, uncompressed)! And the current HD DVD players are half the price of Blu-ray players.

Eventually, Blu-ray probably will adopt an advanced video codec, and may produce affordable 50GB discs. But for now, they are widely considered inferior to their cousins. In any case, the vast majority of people are looking at them today with the same wariness they cast towards DVD eight years ago. DVD Video's going away, or at least stepping down from the number one spot, there's top-down pressure for that. It's just a matter of when.


Blu-ray releases, at the moment, may be inferior to HD-DVD releases, but that is far different from saying the actual Blu-ray format is "inferior" to the HD-DVD format. In any objective, technical comparison, Blu-ray discs are capable of superior performance compared to HD-DVDs if they are utilized correctly, and that is theoretically at the same price as well (assuming you account for the protective coating that makes BDs much more resiliant than CDs, DVDs or HD-DVDs). For instance, HD-DVD, when double-layered, offers a 30 GB disc, but BD achieves practically the same size (25 GB) with only a single-layered disc and almost double (50 GB) when it is double layered (and I'm almost certain that most of the current HD-DVD releases are on the 15 GB single layer discs using the superior VC-1 compression). Next, when looking at BDs, they are capable of faster reading/writing speeds over HD-DVDs as well with their superior transfer rate. There are a number of superior features that BDs have over HD-DVDs. It's not all as clear and easy to understand as some would think.

The main problem with both HD-DVD formats at the moment is the maturity of the technologies involved, and since Blu-ray is attempting to bring an even more advanced technology to the market, it is not only behind HD-DVD, but it is having more problems. This isn't difficult to understand. If BD is allowed to mature properly before the real HD-DVD format war begins, then it will easily deserve to be the winner. Currently, however, Blu-rays require entirely new production lines for one thing, while HD-DVDs are a cheap upgrade to the current DVD technology and were able to begin mass production far sooner. If you can only have so much production capacity for the first Blu-rays it makes sense to me that the initial releases in the format will be transferred cheaply and quickly to pump the BDs out faster. With time that should change. Otherwise, in terms of the end price, BD customers pay no more for their movies than HD-DVD customers since the publishers have decided to take smaller profits, and even with the Mpeg-2 codec, there is little difference in quality.

(Oh, and for those who do not know, audio and video codecs are merely a way to place data on a physical format, they do not speak to the superiority or inferiority of such formats in and of themselves.)

Lasty, the only reason the HD-DVD players are half the price of Blu-ray players is because they are being sold at a tremendous loss right now. Financially speaking, HD-DVD is certainly not in the best of positions either at the moment. Both formats are in a crappy state right now and the companies that are pushing all of this early support for one format or the other are justifiably facing major issues right now. That's not even mentioning the crappy copy protection that movie studios will want to start forcing on the industry that will eventually make many of the current HD-DVD and Blu-ray players useless. I simply like Blu-ray more because the technology in the discs is clearly better, but I don't intend to upgrade to HD televisions or an HD-DVD format until a lot of this crap is worked out. I might purchase a PS3 (if the Nintendo Wii doesn't meet all of my gaming needs) but even for a gaming system it’s in a mess and worthy of a lot of doubt at the moment. We'll see I suppose.
Post
#237725
Topic
Tell imdb.com to separate their rating system for theatrical and altered versions of movies.
Time
If I write a letter to IMDB, it woud be to suggest giving each movie a breakdown rating. So the heading of "Star Wars" would take all votes no matter which version people voted for, but with a breakdown showing which version of the film got the most votes.

Star Wars (1977)
Star Wars Special Edition (1997)
Star Wars Revised Edition (2004)
Post
#237325
Topic
Tell imdb.com to separate their rating system for theatrical and altered versions of movies.
Time
Originally posted by: BadAssKeith
So lets all demand that imdb.com changes their rating system so all movies will have separate rating systems for their original theatrical version and altered versions to prove to GL once and for all what version we really prefer!

You can contact them here.


Good idea. The best way to do that though is to not mention George Lucas or his bussiness decisions. It should be done on the basis of respecting great films.
Post
#236962
Topic
I found a book called "Star Wars on Trial" in a Barnes and Noble bookstore.
Time
That second link was very good. It actually made me totally reasses Vader's salvation/ressurection. I have never believed that Darth Vader should have ever been seen as a hero though. More of a tragedy if anything. I felt empathy for whatever goodness might have remained inside of him, but even at the end when his body is being burned, I still thought of him as a horrid monster. The force-ghost scene . . . I'm not sure I remember what I personally thought of that. Oh well, regardless, that dissertation will keep me thinking for a while here.
Post
#236958
Topic
The music in the prequels.
Time
Originally posted by: Weezer12
Ha, that's funny, I thought the PT score was one of the few strong things about those films. If anything, the down-to-the-wire editing of the films was the music's downfall. That can hardly be blamed on Williams (look at AOTC for the worst offenses).


Agreed. The basic melodies were alright, but the arrangements were poorly done. The random flow of AotC and RotS didn't help either.