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Tiptup

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4-May-2006
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26-Apr-2012
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Post
#246053
Topic
Waiting for Episode VII during the lean years (1984-1998)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/246053/action/topic#246053
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Lucas has -always- applied the most cutting edge effects to these films. Many people accuse the original Star Wars of being nothing more than a technical demo. Do you really think he wouldn't have used CG back then had it existed in as usable a way as it is now? Come on.

I would think it is likely that he would have used CG to enhance special effect shots, but beyond that light assertion of mine, you are talking about a very different man and a very different time. You have no idea if CG would have been as attractive to him then as it is now. His latest movies had so much useless CG that the emotional impact of the films is destroyed (and where the hell were the stories for that matter?). I would lose a lot of respect for the younger Lucas if his artistic sensibilities were no different at that time than they are now.


Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I think it's pretty minimalistic to say the only thing Lucas really contributed to ANH and ESB was the inclination for fart jokes.


And who is saying that?


Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
He wrote the story even if he did have help polishing it (which he has actually had script polishing help on all 3 prequels too I might add). He was the primary creative force driving the bus on all 6 Star Wars films. He came up with the ideas, approved or disapproved of his artists attempt to render said vision, and he had the final say as to what stayed in and what got cut.


Lucas was not the primary creative force on Star Wars. He was the primary organizational force. When it came to the artistic creativity of that initial movie, I would argue that many of the people working for Lucas input more value into the films than even he did. That is not to say that Lucas did not achieve a lot on the artistic end himself, but that it was far more of a group effort than some singular work of a mastermind. If you wish to argue this point I can provide you with many exhaustive reasons for what I say.

In Jedi and the prequels Lucas took more creative control for himself and began surrounding himself with cowards that wouldn't contradict him, all for the sake of making more money, and his films suffered as a result. His logically cold, simple, and very generic concepts were left to stand on their own. George Lucas is not any kind of artistic genius. He has good initial ideas but beyond that he doesn’t know when to quit.

As for his ability to make good artistic-management decisions, that may have worked for one or two films, but as the number of films grew, it should become very clear that Lucas does not have the mental capacity to properly manage a mammoth-scaled work of art. His conceptual focus for the supposed "saga" became too contradictory, hypocritical, and laughably ridiculous. This is objective fact, and not subjective opinion. The prequel trilogy is a set of mediocre and horrible films. And of course, as you like to say, George can believe otherwise as their creator, but then of course he would be very wrong.
Post
#246045
Topic
"BUT ANAMORPHIC ENHANCEMENT ALTERS THE MOVIES!!!"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/246045/action/topic#246045
Time
Originally posted by: Raul2106
SKot thanks so much for understanding. I'm not lying or attempting to offend anybody. Just passing on what was given to me. If I get more. So will all of you. I'm sorry I do not have anything more right now.


And until then I won't believe it, myself. Even though Cable-X1 is way too worked up, I do agree with his skepticism.

Sure, those pictures are sweet, but why would an image of the cgi Yoda be on a box set for the original trilogy that doesn't display the episode numbers? It's too weird.
Post
#245858
Topic
Waiting for Episode VII during the lean years (1984-1998)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/245858/action/topic#245858
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic

The only reason Lucas didn't use a ton of CG in the classic trilogy was because -IT DIDN'T EXIST BACK THEN-.

If it had, you damned well better believe he would have used it.


I hate it when people strongly make assertions that can barely be supported with logic. There's no way you can know that, Go-Mer.

More importantly, though, you act as if the original Star Wars and Empire Strikes back were the creations of George Lucas only. There is so much he didn't bother to care about with those first two films and thus let other people handle or have input on those elements. So much of the character and warmth of the series had nothing to do with Lucas. Fart jokes are more his style.
Post
#245857
Topic
How I learned to stop worrying and love the 2004 dvd's
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/245857/action/topic#245857
Time
Yeah, you know what? Sebastian Shaw was the only man who played the virtuous version of Anakin. The Anakin in the prequels, played by Hayden, is so obviously evil at so many points. Why show the clearly evil man as the one who was redeemed? Does George Lucas believe that external appearances determine our worth? A bloated and scarred man has no value in his view of the world? We have to go back to Anakin's youth when he was a pretty boy?

Edit: Also, they didn't actually change Boba Fette's voice int he 2004 edition of Empire did they? Oh good Lord. I guess that's just another reason for me to not to watch the discs I purchased. Boba Fette always had such an awesome voice.
Post
#245856
Topic
You've Failed, Your Highness.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/245856/action/topic#245856
Time
Wow, that is a very lengthy analysis. Unfortunately, I don't believe Luke was trying to insult the Emperor by calling him "your highness." In the scene he has resigned himself to possible death and shown that he has control over his own actions. He is saying that even the threats of an Emperor will fail before the decisions of his heart.

I just believe Star Wars takes place in a fantasy world and that the address of "your highness" simply translates the notion of superiority into our language in a way that sounds cool. "Your Imperial Majesty" is clumsier in a dramatic line.
Post
#245682
Topic
Waiting for Episode VII during the lean years (1984-1998)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/245682/action/topic#245682
Time
Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
When the 20th anniversary of Star Wars came up, Lucas realized he never had moved on to other things, and that made him feel "insecure." His other friends he'd gratuated with (Speilberg, DePalma, Scorcese, Coppola) had all made dozens of great films, and still were. This insecurity made him change his films and re-release them to make sure people remembered who he was and that he made great films. He made the PT for the same reason, and you can see the insecurity in the special editions and the PT, especially in the PT. It never has a focus, it's just a lot of stuff that tries to impress us because he was insecure. He wanted to prove he was as good as his friends, but the truth is, to do that, you can't define yourself by one film or one series.


Interesting theory. If anything though, his actions have now only cemented his legacy that he can't accomplish anything new without milking Star Wars. Even then its just commerical success and not artistic success.
Post
#245657
Topic
"BUT ANAMORPHIC ENHANCEMENT ALTERS THE MOVIES!!!"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/245657/action/topic#245657
Time
About this thread's original topic. I used to be someone who had a lot of respect for George Lucas. One of the "worshippers" if you will. Episode 1 turned that opinion down a notch though, and episode 2 turned that opinion down a few notches more, but the 2004 supposedly "classic" DVD release pissed me off completely. I'm a damn angry fan and I no longer believe George Lucas is an artistic genius. He's simply a money-grabbing genius. :\


Originally posted by: Mielr
Why do I have a feeling that the majority of people who are critical of those who've purchased the DVDs, have not actually seen the DVDs for themselves? I think a lot of this is people "protesting too much" and trying to talk themselves out of buying the DVDs.

My decision to not buy these DVDs is because I do not have money to burn. I don't have money to spend on something I only want 50/50. If I spend my money, I need to make sure its for something I want and not DVDs I already own. If you have money to burn, good for you.


Originally posted by: Raul2106
Here is one more to get your gears going.

http://www.prillaman.net/image/starwars_packaging_01.jpg


Is that for real?

Lucasfilm isn't even going to try and hide the fact that they lie in their marketing? I'm very skeptical.
Post
#245382
Topic
What is GOUT?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/245382/action/topic#245382
Time
Originally posted by: Scruffy

LOUT -- Lucas's Original Unaltered Trilogy
FLOUT -- F***in' Lucas's Original Unaltered Trilogy
POUT -- Poor Original Unaltered Trilogy
BOUT -- Basic Original Unaltered Trilogy
O^2UT -- Official Original Unaltered Trilogy
ROUT -- Released Original Unaltered Trilogy
TROUT -- The Released Original Unaltered Trilogy
NU OUT -- Not Unaltered Original Unaltered Trilogy
BUG OUT -- Barely Understanding George's Original Unaltered Trilogy
ROCK OUT -- Really Obsolete CAV Kind Of Unaltered Trilogy
COCK OUT -- Ceaselessly Obliterated Classic Killed Original Unaltered Trilogy
KNOCK OUT -- Kind News, Old Classic Kitsch Out for Undiscriminators, a Treasure


That is a brilliant list. My favorites are POUT, ROUT, and TROUT.
Post
#245381
Topic
Do you REALLY think there will be remastered versions of the OOT or whatever? I don't.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/245381/action/topic#245381
Time
Great points, waffle.

Originally posted by: marioxb
If you love the SSSSEs and prequels, then they should look pristine and match each other so everything flows better. When I watch the movies from now on, it will always be in the order of 1, 2, Clone Wars, 3, 4, 5, 6. When going from 3 to 4, I can easily believe that 4 was filmed after 3, with the 2004 version.

Are you blind? The 2004 edits of the Star Wars trilogy looks like it was filmed after the prequel trilogy films? They look drastically different from each other. From the special effects to the makeup and designs, there is very little that matches the first set of three with the prequels in a visual sense. You must not look at things very closely.


Originally posted by: marioxb
Think of it this way. You make a movie and release it to theaters. You release it on DVD. Then you realize you want to improve it. The original is already out there. Would you really want people to see your old version anymore?

First, I would want people to see my old version, yes. What’s the point of hiding reality and not letting people decide what they want for themselves?


Originally posted by: marioxb
Why would you want to "fix up" your old version as well as your "new version" I know I wouldn't. It's different, because we have seen them, but those versions are now out there. We should stop complaining now. You wanted them unaltered. They are unaltered. Why aren't you happy yet?


Take your own advice, Mario, and use more effort when you “think” about things.

“Fix up” the old version? Who wants anything fixed up? The movie already exists and we wanted a transfer of that movie on DVD in normal, standard DVD quality. I won’t be happy until that is offered and I’m sure as hell not going to buy this pathetic release.

These versions are far from “unaltered.” This release is heavily altered for standard, low-resolution, 4:3 TVs and older analog formats like VHS and Laserdisc. To represent the original film as unaltered as possible on DVD (it’s impossible to not alter a film when transferring it to a new format), we would need a new digital master of the film dedicated for DVD. Think before you talk, please.


Originally posted by: marioxb
Animorphic would be altered as well.


There’s some nice stupidity.

The original films were shot in anamorphic. Secondly, anamorphic DVDs simply allow movies to be displayed in higher quality. If anything, that would simply display a film in a way that is even closer to the original version.


Originally posted by: marioxb
I, much like Lucas, would want people to think exactly like me. Why is that so hard to understand and be happy with?


Because different people think differently.

Your devotion to the prequel movies is not shared by most people. Star Wars was a pop culture phenomenon. The prequel trilogy is a silly, kiddy/geek phenomenon only.
Post
#244799
Topic
This guy will not be buying the DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244799/action/topic#244799
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Well I think it's a little self centered. But wrong?

Was it wrong when he re-dubbed Beru's voice? What if he had redubbed her voice before he released the film, would that make a difference?

My point here is that there were a lot of people who worked on a lot of stuff to bring these movies into reality. Along the way some of the stuff they came up with was discarded for various reasons (like the Luke/Friends on Tatooine scene for example).

Stuff like that happens all the time, to good honest artistic work in the process of making a movie. These artists were paid by Lucas, and that's why he gets to use what he wants and discard the rest for his final cut.


A very true point. But firstly, choosing one artistic direction over another should not be the same as totally trashing the neglected work. This is even more true when the neglected work of art is something very redeemable. It's sad to see something beautiful destroyed when people could preserve it. Preservation should not only be about history but beauty as well. Secondly, the more a work of art is experienced and loved by the world, the more that piece of art is no longer just a work of its creator but something more meaningful. The more meaningful a work of art is to the world, the more respect it should be given.
Post
#244788
Topic
This guy will not be buying the DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244788/action/topic#244788
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
On the other hand, try to see it from his perspective. He was the one who put everything on the line to make the O-OT in the first place. Mortgaging his property, waiving his directorial fees, working himself into a nervous breakdown in an attempt to make the original Star Wars. The money we gave him for bringing ANH to the world wasn't really spent on the sequels, it was spent on the original film. He then took the money he made from that (the really freaking hard way) and put all of it back into ESB and his companies that helped him make it. When we bought into that movie, we weren't giving Lucas money to make ROTJ, we were giving him his invested money back plus profit because he gave us ESB. And so on and so forth. It seems to me like with each film in this series, Lucas brought the film to the table first, and we in turn rewarded him with our money and support. So it's not like he was ever really operating at a deficet with us.


I am a huge supporter of property rights and I don't fault George Lucas on any legal basis. My argument centers on respecting art from an ethical standpoint. His property rights do not give him the moral right to overlook the millions of fans who enjoyed the original versions of his films. Nor do his property rights give him the moral right to erase a lot of the beautiful work performed by other people to help create the original version of his films. His behavior is irrational and wrong.
Post
#244778
Topic
Stormtrooper with 4 eyes ::( or Stormtrooper showing terrible IVTC/telecine artefacts
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244778/action/topic#244778
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Finally when he did release the classic trilogy in 2004, he said the reason he changed his mind was because his advisers were telling him that due to rampant DVD piracy and newer formats on the horizon, there might not even be a DVD market by the time he's ready.

So he released the films as they were at the time while work continued on them for the upcoming rumored 2007 set.


First, he didn't release the "classic" trilogy in 2004, he released his edits of the classic films the world originally knew.

Secondly, if there are more changes to the films coming in 2007, they will be made worse.
Post
#244368
Topic
This guy will not be buying the DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244368/action/topic#244368
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
All I want to know is why some of you hate with such eagerness? Do you think hate is a good thing to revel in? What good will it do you in the end?


Your initial post made it sound like you believed the original trilogy was "crap." Then Stinky made a parody of a prequel-trilogy gusher. Those actions are not hate. The first is a misunderstanding and the second is a humorous post.
Post
#244356
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244356/action/topic#244356
Time
Originally posted by: Darth Mallwalker
Originally posted by: Tiptup
I don't attack people, but I will attack opinions if I believe they are wrong.

[...]

That administrator sounds like a childish dipstick. But, I must inform you that there is something very wrong with releasing the films in a non-anamorphic format.
If I didn't know better, I might think you just attacked a person whose opinion you agree with.


Heh, well, not technically. In that second instance I was attacking someone's actions through colorful namecalling, which I will also sometimes do. I also said that this unknown person "sounds" like a dipstick and that is not exactly the same as actually saying he or she is a dipstick.

More seriously though, when I said I don't attack people, I meant that in the context of arguing ideas. A person could have horrible characteristics, but that has no bearing on whether a given argument from that person is strong or weak. Therefore I try to never "attack" a person in terms of destroying their ability to be who they want to be. That does not mean I cannot or won't express accurate assessments of a given person's qualities from time to time. If a person behaves in a way I disagree with, I will then criticize that specific behavior. But, I guess I shouldn't have resorted to the unfounded namecalling, so you're right there.