That new scene with Padme on the balcony on Alderaan works really well.
This edit is shaping up great.
I love the very subtle movements of Bossk's face.
If this change was from a Special Edition under George Lucas' direction, he'd probably have looked straight into the lens, made some spasm-like facial gestures and ululated loudly.
Adywan is class all the way.
I agree with a lot of what's in this thread. When I saw the troopers pulling out over-sized gatling guns, the Jedi and Sith having massively choreographed fights and all the little derivative bits and bobs littered throughout, I couldn't help but feel disinterested.
Having said that, I will say that even this meagre offering has more wit, character and drama than the whole of the prequels. The "just inspecting the troops" quip from the stock rogue character as he checked out that Twi'lek's butt gave me a smirk, the Sith - even if it is gratuitous - are certainly villainous, unlike the prequels villains, and the idea of Korriban - an ancient planet with ties to some extinct demonic civilisation - is pretty neat.
Anchorhead said:
Bingowings said:
Looks like a Steampunk Homer Simpson.
Now that I think about it, it'd be great to actually organise a convention for Star Wars OT style fans. I was kidding before, but the more I think about it the more I think it's necessary for us to have a definite "declaration of independence" from Lucasfilm and its actions.
Fans of other series are lucky enough to have creators who are mostly respectful of their fans, but Lucas obviously holds his base in contempt and expects them to shift to meet his demands rather than make any compromises himself.
With this in mind, I can picture groups of people getting together to watch screenings of the OOT (in whatever form we can get our hands on them), trade, discuss and have panels with guys like Adywan, Mike Stoklasa and maybe even Gary Kurtz.
But, then, this is probably impossible and way too niche to draw the necessary numbers. I can dream, though. I don't think I could take being at the average conventions with all the Lucas gushers.
As someone who grew up with the prequels, I can tell you they're something you grow out of when you begin to see just how terrible they are, while the OT still stands up to scrutiny.
I honestly think there's nothing to fear for future generations.
Like them lil Ewoks taught us, power is meaningless if you're on the Dark Side. Lucasfilm cannot rewrite history or force us to adopt whatever warped perspective allows Lucas to view the prequels as good.
Yes, it's really the droid humour I dislike.
I believe it's important that villains be at least competent.
I like the idea. Adding music from the films would be excellent.
Maybe if you ask him really, really nicely our resident composer - The Cutter - could come up with some new themes for it.
What I'd really like to see, though, is all the clumsy humour removed.
How about instead of an annual celebration we Star Wars OT fans organise an annual mourning?
I think I proposed this theory a while ago, only I blamed space aliens.
Has anybody ever thought of doing something about the repeat Greedo that shows up about 51 minutes in?
I've always found it very jarring to see a guy we just saw murdered walking around like it ain't nothin'. I remember pausing it as a kid and going "Look! See! He's alive!"
I know there's probably some EU explanation about traditional Rodian jumpsuits or something, but I'd rather see this dealt with.
I threw this together quickly, just to show the sort of thing I mean.
If we're talking about changing Tatooine to a different planet in Jedi, why not consider making it into Hutta - the Hutt home world?
I think some of the concept art for that new game they're making looks quite nice:
http://www.swtor.com/media/concepts/hutta-1
http://www.swtor.com/media/concepts/hutta-0
http://www.swtor.com/media/concepts/hutta
http://www.swtor.com/media/concepts/20090220_004
http://www.swtor.com/media/concepts/hutta-mansion
http://www.swtor.com/media/concepts/hutta-rockwalls
CO said:
Baronlando said:
And in the context of people talking about this blu-ray box, it's seems particularly weird to go around proclaiming to the world how much you don't care that the originals aren't on it, even though other movies have multiple cuts. What, you like getting less for your money?
Oddly, many of these SE fans actually are HAPPY the OOT version aren't on the BluRay set. Remember the line from the TFN'ers in 2006 after we found out we were getting laserdisk masters, "Well, you're getting what you deserve!"
It just shows that the SW fanbase is just bizarre these days. I look forward to releases like T2, Bladerunner, etc because of multiple versions, even though I prefer one over the other.
Well, when you're a member of a cult of personality, it's normal to show hostility to those who question your flawless leader and his "immaculate vision".
They're just being vindictive to us dirty, dirty apostates.
Maybe if I marry into the Lucas family, I can sneakily use whatever rights I gain to fix everything...
Or is that taking this too far?
Maybe I'll just go lie down for a while...
twister111 said:
So I went google-fu and, found a tweet.
SCIFItheFAN tweeted:
http://twitter.com/#!/SCIFItheFAN/status/14040578429816832
@KRLgrrl Hey Katie, has your dad ever expressed to you why he persists on the Greedo-Han controversy even though he knows fans hate it?
KRLgrrl tweeted:
http://twitter.com/#!/KRLgrrl/status/14041985950154752
@James_Faupel well Han never shot first. He doesn't persist on anything, its the fans that insist on keeping the debate alive.
That the tweet you thought was gone?
Oceania is at war with Eastasia.
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
Easterhay said:
I think if you accept that, as a fan, you didn't make the films and therefore they're not yours, then that's a step towards understanding. It's got nothing to do with "moral character" - I really find that remark bewildering, to be honest - and more to do with an artist who will never be happy with what he has created. Feel sorry for Lucas, if you must, but I think that's about as far as any negativity should go.
I don't see how it's a bewildering comment. I just feel that attempting to rewrite history - even on trivial matters such as this - is offensive. By his own admission, Lucas wants the originals to only be vaguely remembered as the "rough prints" from which the special editions are derived.
As for children now growing up with the special editions and enjoying them, I might as well say now that I also grew up with the special editions. It was only later, when introduced to them by an older Star Wars fan, that I got to see the originals. I prefer the originals. If any special edition is to be made available, I would prefer it to be a very conservative edit which smooths out effects and fixes continuity errors.
The only radical change I agreed with was the removal of the Yub Nub song, but I also feel the Ewoks are one of the major flaws of the series anyway.
And, yes, I even grew up with the prequels. Unlike the originals, however, they don't occupy a favorable place in my memory. They're more like vague impressions from a bad night out.
Easterhay said:
Dick Cheney compared himself to Vader? What a creep.
Whilst I think some of the changes wrought on the films seem to have been experimental (ie let's see what this would look like) rather than carefully thought-through and carefully executed (ergo, I have nothing against Hayden as Anakin's ghost but it was clearly a hasty add-on and as for Jabba in A New Hope, well, when will they get that scene right?) I am largely in favour of the the revisions made.
Look, it's only really the fans of the original originals who are hacked off with this. Everyone else accepts the Star Wars films as they are just fine.
Oh no, I quite enjoy alternate edits of films. I like the various edits available of Blade Runner, for example, and like most people here, I find what Adywan is doing endlessly impressive and entertaining.
What I don't enjoy is that Lucas is trying to make his (very much flawed) alternate edits replace the originals. I think the originals should be respected enough that they be restored and packaged with any editing or SFX experiments Lucasfilm feels like releasing.
Just a little respect for history is all I'm asking. Other directors have had the good moral character to do it, I just want to see the same from Lucas.
There's some really great work in this thread.
The new droid theme made me feel as if I was watching the OT for a second!
Easterhay said:
As for world leaders quoting the films, I wouldn't be too proud of Reagan's Star Wars project, for which Lucas attempted (and failed) to sue for improper use of the name. And didn't the Daily Express have May The Fourth Be With You as their headline when Margaret Thatcher won the 1979 election? Hmm, not so proud of that one either...
Oh, don't get me wrong - I definitely wouldn't be proud of the circumstances either. I certainly wouldn't be proud of the militarisation of space being associated with the series, and I can understand why Lucas fought against it. Dick Cheney affectionately comparing himself to Darth Vader is hardly something to be proud of either.
But my point is that the series has embedded itself into history via these means, if by no other means. It should therefore be treated with respect as an item of historical significance. It should not be treated with the crassness we've seen.
It depresses me that a series which has so influenced the popular imagination is being repeatedly debased.
A series which has been quoted by world leaders, which altered the nature of cinema in the U.S and the wider world and, not least of all, lives in the imagination of millions of people.
The kitsch of merchandising was once cute, but it now it is merely exploitative. The whole thing feels hollowed out. The Special Edition is a desecrated corpse. Any small sliver of dignity and wonder which existed in the series is being meticulously squeezed out.
If Lucas had actively set out to destroy Star Wars, I don't think he could have done better than this.
I'm sorry that a post I made in this topic seems to have offended some people. I meant it only as a play on the common BBS joke topic "You know you've been something too much when something..." I also think about and like to discuss things like this, so please don't take offence.
You know you've been watching the OT too much when you start debating anti-Wookiee racism.
A little known fact is that Alderaan was a highly racist planet.
That's why Leia shows so much antagonism to...well, now that I think about it, just about everybody.
Tarkin apparently smells. Darth Vader "belongs on a leash". Lando, in spite of the fact that Han vouches for him, isn't deemed trustworthy. Chewbacca is consistently subjected to abuse. Yet she suddenly "loves" Luke when she finds out they're related, even after initially mocking his height - though maybe this is because Luke shares her views. He does, after all, show a touch of racism to poor old Yoda, assuming he couldn't possibly be a great warrior.
Is this the best female role model Lucas can come up with?
I suspect Star Wars would have ended up like this if Gary Kurtz hadn't been involved:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbEEQxtnkHE
And let's not even get started on the prequels.
I wonder what Lucas had to say after the first screening of Raiders of the Lost Ark. Probably thought it ended on a bit of a downer, what with the good guys losing and all.
http://youtu.be/uH3YzXKf2VI?hd=1&t=15s
PT ships flying about with OT ships?
Death Star above Geonosis?
Podracing!?
They're trying really hard to make the OT universe mesh with the PT universe.
It'll never work, though. It's as jarring as seeing Daleks or Klingons in the cantina scene.
I have a scorched earth attitude to the PT - retcon it. All of it.
Oh, and Vader is surfing U.S.A for a bit.
Won't be riding this thing. Yeuch.
I've thought of something like this, though my version is a little more conservative, preserving Empire as much as possible. Some ideas to mull over, if you're interested.
If you're trying to keep it shorter than three hours, the final version would have to be mercilessly cut back.
- Open with A New Hope and continue as normal until Death Star sequences
- Use establishing shots and footage from Return of the Jedi to make it appear that the Death Star is still under construction (backed up by Imperial conversations about the station "not yet being operational", also makes the Rebels seem very speedy in their resistance)
- After the escape from the Death Star, remove TIE Fighter sequence, have the Falcon blast into hyperspace immediately after escape (mostly for time constraints, if all footage was included, the film would be over five hours). Leia reveals that the ship is being tracked.
- Shots of the Falcon flying toward Hoth.
- Cut to establishing sequence of Vader's fleet from Empire Strikes Back. Cut to inside Vader's chamber. Edit the screen so that Tarkin appears to Vader on it and asks him "if the homing beacon is secure", have Vader respond that he is "sure the rebels are in the Hoth system".
- Cut to an establishing shot of the Rebel base. Show R2 being hooked up to a computer console and having the DS plans appear on a small screen. After this, cut to Han entering Rebel command room and informing the general that he cannot stay and must pay Jabba the Hutt. Edit conversation so that Han retains some of his irreverent tone and so that the general shows less respect for him.
- Cut to Star Destroyer releasing probe droid (not so much searching for the Rebels as scouting out the base, so the Empire can launch an effective attack). After droid emerges from the snow, cut back to Rebel command as they track it. After Han volunteers to investigate, cut to Luke on Tauntaun traveling toward impact site - suggesting that Luke also volunteered, though of course there's not enough footage to make this transition completely smooth.
- After Wampa attack, cut to Han destroying the probe droid and the Rebels concluding that the Empire knows where they are.
- Cut to Wampa cave. As Luke hears the beast approaching he fumbles at his ice encased feet before hearing Obi-Wan's voice telling him to "use the Force, Luke" as in A New Hope. Luke eventually "lets go" and summons the lightsaber to him, escaping into the snowy wastes.
- Cut back to Rebel base. Han returns and begins working on the Falcon before 3PO approaches to reveal that Luke is missing. Han gets on Tauntaun and returns to the snow.
- Continue as normal - Yoda, Falcon escape, Cloud city etc. If any footage is to be removed for time reasons, it should be from Jedi. Remove mention of "another".
- After Luke discovers that Vader is his father, Han is encased in carbonite and Luke is given his new arm, cut to Vader arriving on the now complete DS to inform them that the Emperor will be arriving soon.
- Cut to Luke returning to Dagobah ("I have a promise to keep", etc.) to speak with Yoda. Remove mention of Leia as Luke's sister. After Yoda's death, cut to Chewbacca being delivered to Jabba. Edit footage so that this scene, not 3PO and R2's arrival, includes the dramatic musical sting as Han in carbonite is revealed. Maintain the overly suggestive reveal of Lando in disguise, as these are, after all, the two characters we saw head off to free Han only minutes before.
- The restructuring of the next few sequences will be difficult, but remove as much excess as possible (possibly Rancor sequence, dance sequences in general). Get to Sarlaac as quickly as possible.
- After escape form Tatooine, cut to Emperor's arrival on DS. Cut from Emperor's arrival to Rebel fleet establishing. Rebels discuss their plan, in an abbreviated fashion (possibly with less grinning from all involved, so that the mood matches that of Empire and ANH a little more closely) and then head off to Endor. DS hologram would have to be altered to depict a complete DS.
- Remove all superfluous conversations between Vader and the Emperor. Maintain mystery around Emperor by not showing his face until Luke's arrival.
- Cut down Endor considerably. Speederbike sequence either removed or cut down as much as possible. Cut excessive Ewok cuteness, speed through all Ewok sequences as quickly as possible by removing all but the most pertinent details.
- Luke gives himself up to Vader. Cut to Han and Leia at bunker. Rotoscope all but one Stormtrooper out. Edit Han's dialogue, "Not bad, there's only one of 'em", "It only takes one to sound the alarm", "Then we'll do it real quietly". Cut to Han and Rebels capturing lone trooper. Ewok theft of speederbike removed by these means.
- Cut to Luke's meeting with Emperor. Ground battle on Endor cut back to near non-existence. As the Emperor tells the commander to fire when ready, cut to Tarkin giving the DS operatives the nod. In the midst of battle, feature the brief scene of Tarkin being offered and refusing an escape ship. After DS is destroyed, cut to Han and Leia sharing an edited version of their kiss. Then cut to Luke burning Vader's body. Pan up from body. As we pan up into the starfield, credits begin to role over a more gentle, less triumphant Star Wars theme such as the Force or a selected piece from the PT.
Again, this version would have to be put together first and then subjected to a merciless editing operation to make it work, though I truly would like to preserve Empire as the beating heart of the edit.
