TheBoost

Vaderisnothayden said:

Great. I find a cool way in which the prequels screwed up and then you guys want to defend the bloody prequels. Sometimes I just don't get people.

Judging by what we see onscreen, kid clones must be cloned off Boba and adult ones off Jango. And if there's a third clone actor (I didn't notice) there must be a third clone template (another son of Jango?). So yeah the clone army is based on more than one guy and the Kaminoans failed to mention it.

Presumably the Jango clones were done earlier and later the Kaminoans moved on to cloning Boba, hence the older ones looking like Jango and the younger ones looking like Boba. Also, the Kaminoans are both a bit shifty (they pretend they're all cloned from one guy) and maybe a bit dumb (they think they can pass off all the clones as one guy) or maybe human faces just look all the same to them so they think they'll look the same to Kenobi. The shiftiness may be down to having an alien mentality with possibly a different moral system and different values and modes of behavior. Kenobi doesn't comment on the kid clones being different from the adult ones. Maybe he's just being polite. Kenobi is a polite sort of guy. Maybe he's being underhanded in his own way. That's in character too.

This is the most twisted wierd and convoluted explanation I've ever heard to justify ignoring the simplest possible expanation... the kid is a clone, they're all clones, played by different actors at different ages because that's the reality of filmmaking.

You're honestly suggesting that the film would have been improved if lil' Boba was running around in his helmet all the time so that the audience wouldn't have to see that the kid playing him wasn't a perfect enough dead-ringer for the dude playing Jango.  Or they made a CGI-Boba based on pictures of the actor who played Jango when he was young. (these are both terrible ideas)

This is not 'a cool way the Prequals screwed up.' This is bending over backwards to find a flaw where really none exists. If you don't like Boba being a clone, fine. I hate Boba being a clone too. I hate Boba being in the PT at all. But this is just silly. If it wasn't from you, I'd assume this was a parody of fan-complaints.

I seem to see less contradictions in these lines than you do.  

"Your father wanted you to have this [lightsaber] when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it."

Obi does say "this weapon is your life." to Anakin, and though they both got spare lightsabers in AOTC's climax, it's still not unreasonable to think lightsabers are plenty important. Mace has a custom one, as does Dooku.

Obi-Wan is also lying a great deal to Luke about Luke's past. This is probably partly because he's ashamed of his own role in what happened, and partly to protect Luke. it's one thing to learn your a Jedi, it's another the same afternoon to learn your dad is like, the worst person in the galaxy. Maybe Obi would have told the truth had he survived the Death Star.

"[Uncle Owen] didn't hold your father's ideals - he thought he should have stayed behind and not gotten involved."

Obi lying. See above.

Princess Leia refers to some recent galactic history:

(to Obi-Wan) "Years ago, you served my father in the Clone Wars."

Considering all of the seperate conflicts, political ramifications, culteres and governmental bodeis involved, I don't see why pluralizing "Clone Wars" would be totally unexpected. It happed in the Indian Wars of US History.

Obi-Wan does say his loyallty is to the Senate... to Democracy! So it's also not totally unreasonable to say he served Bail Organa, especially given that the entirety of the war takes place off screen, who's to say he didn't serve him specifically at points.

From ESB,  Obi-Wan directs Luke to the Dagobah system:

"There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me."

"Mrs. Iglesias is the teacher who instructed me." That's true. I don't see why I need to add "...when I was in 3rd grade." Especially when I'm talking to someone dying in the snow.

 Yoda and Obi-Wan discuss Luke's potential:

-"You are reckless!" (didn't he mean, "Reckless, are you!"?)

-"So was I, if you'll remember."

We never saw Obi when he was younger than 20 or so. He might very well have been wreckless, especially when he was a wee lad in Yoda's tutelage. Even at 20 he had a bit of attitude to QuiGon.

InfoDroid said:

Lando's "sin" was selfishness.  The only way to fully redeem himself for that is selflessness.  The points you mentioned demonstrate some selflessness, yes.  But keep in mind the magnitude of his betrayal.  Han would never have been frozen or taken to Jabba's "nasty palace" if Lando had made a stand...or even warned him in some way...C-3PO was blasted to pieces, Leia, Chewie, Han and Luke were all lucky they didn't get killed.  And if they HAD been killed, there'd be no Vader redemption and the galaxy would never have broken the Emperor's grip. 

What he did was baaaadddd.... 

Thats where we have to disagree. I think Lando's mistake was trusting the Empire. He was forced to weigh the wellbeing of Cloud City against one man's life (Luke's. If you recall, giving Han to the bounty hunter was never part of the bargain).  You can see why he felt he 'had no choice.'

When he sees the Empire isn't playing square, he sacrifices everything he has and risks his life to try to make up for that one mistake.

I don't think he was selfish at all, and I disagree he has anything further to atone for.

JasonN said:

Speaking of which, am I the only one who thought it was incredibly stupid and just plain "Huh?!" that Han was made into a General just after he was unfrozen?
-_-

 He was already a commander when he was frozen. Besides, how many officers were volunteering to pilot a crummy ship under Darth Vader's nose.

InfoDroid said:

If anyone's gonna die, it HAS to be Lando.  Self-sacrifice is the only way he can fully redeem himself for selling out his friends in Empire.  When it comes down to it, he said he was sorry, but never really paid any consequences for his betrayal. 

Giving up everything he had, posing as a guard at Jaba's nasty palace, and risking his life for his pals and the cause of galactic freedom doesn't count as a way to 'redeem' himself for sacrificing one man in an attempt to save an entire city?

I disagree.

BarBar Jinkx said:

Lets try this again shall we .....

 

will the mynocks be given the cantina treatment at all?

 The one time we see a mynock face, I'm sure satisfied with its creepy motion.

Vaderisnothayden said:

It was the intention to have Boba be Jango's clone, but that's not what they put onscreen.  

 Well, I don't look at 30 much like I did at 10, but besides that, they show a room full of Jango clones, and all the young ones look exactly like lil' Boba. (the young adult ones aren't identical actors to Jango either)

So, if Boba isn't Jango's clone, the clone army is still based on the Boba template, and all soldiers undergo reconstructive surgery twice in their lives, once at young adulthood, and once at middle age.

Following this reasoning, ObiWan plainly kills young Anakin and replaces him with another young man at some point between TPM and AOTC. Obi's far more sinister than we suspected.

Johnny Ringo said:

There's really nothing in the movie to indicate a great passage of time. Maybe they should have done a token 80's training montage?

 

 Intercut with shots of wacky things as everyone tries to live on the Falcon for months. Waiting in line for Leia to use the shower, doing laundry, Leia finding out that Chewie used her razors to shave, lots of playign holo-chess.

DarkFather said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

I don't buy the months-elapsed-in-ESB thing. That's not in the film we have, whatever Kershner intended.

 

I was always under the impression it was a few days. There's really nothing whatsoever in the movie to suggest otherwise.

 I agree. Did Boba trail behind the Falcon for months? If they were on the Falcon for months, wouldn't Han have put the moves on Leia.

I think it couldn't have been more than a few days... and Luke just got a major crash course in Jediness.

I'm sure Prowse got paid for his work on the OT. It'd be nice if everyone in the movies we like were filthy rich, but I don't see any reason Lucas should be more generous than he legally needs to be with anyone who has a contract. Why should he be judged more harshly than the rest of Hollywood?

It's not like no other 6'6" actors could have pulled off Prowse's brilliant and nuanced performance.

apothekari said:

A bit off topic but.

If the PT didn't show Lucas in a poor light, this will definitely do so.

http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2009/04/lucasfilm-still-not-paying-vader-actor

What BS

 That has it's own thread in general star wars discussion.

My brother and I were talking about this the other day.

How long does "Star Wars" last? Is it a few days or a matter of hours from Luke meeting Ben to the Death Star blowing up?

In "Empire" how long is Luke training, and cosequently, how long do the gang spend cooped up in the Falcon (with no changes of clothes!).

"Jedi" seems the easiest to figure, as it's in the narratvie that they go straight from Jabba to the rendevous. Maybe a day or two?

TPM seems a couple days, AOTC seems a few weeks, and ROTS takes at least a few months, but any guesses as to a more precise time frame?

What's your best guess? Is there an official answer for this?

Bingowings said:

As for the object in ESB being the Rishi Maze it seems a bit odd to me that the Rebels, after suffering such a defeat, would hide in what must by then be one the most notoriously famous areas of space.

 Good hiding places are good hidiing places. It took 5000 US soldiers ten years to find Geronimo in the mountains of the Southwest, and the US still hasn't found Bin Laden in the mountains.

Bingowings said:

As for the object in ESB being the Rishi Maze it seems a bit odd to me that the Rebels, after suffering such a defeat, would hide in what must by then be one the most notoriously famous areas of space.

 Good hiding places are good hidiing places. It took 5000 US soldiers ten years to find Geronimo in the mountains of the Southwest, and the US still hasn't found Bin Laden in the mountains.

Looks pretty cool. The new music really tweaks the vibe.

Thoughts about some evil Jedi-

Among the younger Jedi, Anakin has quite a following, even as early as Ep. II.  Anakin is a great warrior, boldy defiant of the Jedi traditions, and really just cool. When he leaves the Jedi in Ep. III, maybe a dozen or so Jedi follow him to be his honor guard in Palpy's New Order, and eventually help him wipe out the Jedi.

But their loyallty is stronger towards Anakin than to Palpatine, so eventually he has them all murdered by putting them on a shuttle and surprising them all when they're released to the vacuum of space by young intelligence officer Tarkin.

This could serve as a tool to explain how one badass, even as badass as Anakin is, could take on the whole of the Jedi order. It also allows for big lightsaber battles.

Vaguely inspirted by Hitler wiping out the SA, the paramilitary group that helped him achieve power, 'The Night of Long Knives.'

...Is anyone else still playing? Becuase it's one thing to be part of a thread kicking ideas around, and debating concepts in the NPT, that's fun... it's another to be posting half-finished fan-fic, which is what it is if I'm the only one doing it. :)

DarkFather said:

And that can't be said of Empire Strikes Back, plus more?

"Reasonable appeal to the majority." No. Appeal to the majority is one of the absolute lamest paths to go. Because a bunch of people like it, doesn't make it right. I personally refuse to base my opinion of a film based on what the majority likes. That's called being a sheep.

If more people agree with you about a subject than me, I hope you realize that means nothing.

So you object to the majority appeal on principal, not the evidence IMDB provided.

 But since we're talking about the ultimately subjective discussion of quality of a sci-fi/fantasy film, doesn't the extreme-belovedness is has garnered count for something?

DarkFather said:

Janskeet said:

Well ROTJ is currently #110 on the imdb top 250.  So statistically many more people agree with me than with you.

You're using IMDB as a majority appeal. You must out of your mind.

 How about the fact it's made 500 million dollars, has been released for the home market about 30 times, is beloved by millions the world over, and twenty five years after its release still sells action figures based on even its most obscure characters. Would that be a reasonable appeal to the majority?

Ewok Battle Thoughts-

Take Ewokeese from the Ewok TV movies, and have more threatening sounds over some of the 'cuter' moments of Ewoks cheering, or falling.

When Chewie chucks the guy out of the ATST, speed it up. It looks like he pics him up and gingerly tosses him. A scream would help too.

THeres a moment a bunch of Ewoks jump over a log (screen cap soon). Adding a blasterbolt hitting one of them and a scream would be cool.

InfoDroid said:

Just one more sidenote about Council members having puple lightsabers.  To rationalize this idea, it may make sense in a battlefield situation for other Jedi to distinguish who is "leading the charge" in a potentially confusing situation.  The downside to this would be the enemy could also easily pick them out. 

Regardless, I have no problem with Dooku, Mace and Yoda or any other council member or "Advanced Jedi" having purple lightsabers.  Akwat Kbrana is right, it only serves to strengthen the Dooku element of the story.  It's a testament to how high a level he had attained in the order.

What about Ki-Adi Mundi?  We see him with a lightsaber in ROTS.  Maybe his should be purple too? 

Making purple a sign of rank would seem confusing. A whole lot of the Jedi action we see are indeed masters on the council, so purple would not stand out that much. Also, would Obi get a purple blade when he achieves that rank?

I just can't stop double posting today.

Jeyl said:

Monroville said:

Here are some PINK 5 clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW11ly5Urts&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy8ZjhnijgM&feature=related

http://www.pinkfive.com/

Pink Five is now Expanded Universe material. Adywan hates EU and has stated that it does not exist for him. He'll accept the prequels any day over any EU material no matter how good they might be. 

But wasn't she fanon before she was EU? I mean, not saying anyone should add her to an edit necessarily, just quibbling.

ChainsawAsh said:

 

But back to ROTJ - there are a LOT of inconsistencies in that movie in relation to ANH/ESB:

- Darth Vader's super-shiny suit
- Boba Fett's armor

 Isn't it simply concievable that in the year or so since ESB Vader cleaned his armor, and Fett modified/fixed/upgraded/tweaked/gained-weight-and-had-it-adjusted his armor?

DarkFather said:

I said this in another thread earlier today:

Ahsoka Tano is cuter than hell.

 I like her too.

double post. nothing to see here.