The Cutter

vaderios said:

How damn awesome is Luke versus vader with no music then add music and then again remove the music!

Yes !

The next video is coming soon...

I have to finish my "let's start the cutting process" part, many things to say...

there will be two videos : one for the cutting process (very long for this sequence) the other for the new edit (so you can directly watch the new cut)

vaderios said:

what do u mean by the musicless version ?

The video you posted as private, you demonstrated a musicless/sfx only version of the duel between obi and GG. I liked that most from original or the duel of the fates version you ve made. The saber only sounds have more impact to an already busy enviroment ;)

 

I thought about that but I was not sure...

I used Duel of Fates to "hide the misery" of Grievous when he draws swords ( I don't like the idea of 4 lightsabers...).

As you see, this is exactly the same lightsaber sound design in the sound fx only and final version (with Duel of the fates). The lightsabers effects take here a lot of place because I put them really near us. So you're right, with the music it's a little too much.

I like very much the sound fx only version too. Duel of the fates is not a definitive choice. I will maybe put a music in the begining and stop it at Obi-wan's first strike

vaderios said:

The point of sound desing is to treat it as a music instrument that follows the orchestra.

I agree !

Vaderios said :
I see what you did there about pointing missing hums and clashes but thats the point!
A good sound designer knows when to add or remove or tone up/down a sound so the eye of the viewer can focus on an specific aspect/point of a shot.I said harmony before and i meant if you have a new music choice then the sfx should follow with the proper value/rythm etc. or the opposite.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant when I said : "it's not good to put a sound in every move". But in the original movie there is a lot of mistake. You say "a good sound designer knows when to add a remove a sound" and it's perfectly true, but it's not the case here : The missing sounds in the duel between Grievous and Obi-wan aren't all well done; even if it's create by the best sound designer in the world.
The lightsaber sound design on the Phantom menace are infinitly superior, just perfect.
And regarding the harmony between fx and music I show you a perfect example of what I did in the duel Anakin vs Dooku. Wiithout my modification the lightsabers sounds are dissonants and create something strange with the new music.


Vaderios said
As for the "randomly" comment of mine i was meant to say the clashes and buzzes sounds are placed like random, not the channels ;)

I used the example of my work on the channel to show you that all the sound are not randomly placed but of course not randomly selected.
There is also a work (with EQ, pitch, time stretch...) to tailor the sound to the move. For example a "hum" may be to weighty or slow....
So I agree with you regarding the redundancy of some sounds but I can't on the point of "randomly", because it's simply not true : ) I take great care of this.

You may feel something a bit chaotic in this duel and I think that's why you said that. But this "chaotic effect" correspond perfectly to a duel with 5 swords !

vaderios said
For Feedback and only i just loved the musicless version of this duel. Taking the comment that the music are the sabers and something more than that is over the edge. Awesome example for less is more! :D

what do u mean by the musicless version ?

vaderios said

Use variation on every aspect you can. Thats Star wars. Nothing sounds the same twice. Thats why i like when im listening random laser sounds from the same guns.

I perfectly agree with you and I will do what I can

thanks again !

Jacobss said:

Looking forward to Sidious reveal and the fight between Mace and Palpatine.

 

Thanks you Jacobss

You're right, it's impossible te repair everything...I will see what I can do with the music.

As I already says, my Mace VS Palpatine duel is really really short...too much bad things. But I really worked hard on this (with Sidious revelation) to make it intense. Everthing here is shorter but much better (IMO of course).

one of the most important moment of the entire saga, and the most messed...

This will be my next video

Hope you like it too !

brash_stryker said:

New voice is a huge improvement. Also, duel of the fates is perfect for an edit where Grievous is Maul. I don't know if you're aiming for that in your edit.

Thanks !

It will be hard for me to do that without a new actor for Grievous voice and new dialog.

I am working with Sony Vegas (very easy to use) and Cubase. For the spacialisatoin you have to find the track pan automation. In Sony vegas you just have to click on P for the pan and V for the volume automation.

Thanks DIP and Erikstormtrooper for your kind words ! (I will see for the number of Grievous swords)

Bingowings said:

A grand improvement but one thing that still makes no sense is why a Volcanic planet instantly equals safety.

Thank you !

You're right, I will remove the relation between "volcanic planet" and "safety".

I just have to cut : "it's a volcanic planet". Grievous will just say : "you will be safe here" without any other indication

vaderios said:

You must consider that the clashes and hums are not placed randomly in any star wars movie.

Thanks Vaderios for your comment !

My work on the sound design is absolutely not done randomly. Each sound is treated separately with different eq, volume and pan. There is a real spacialisation (not only putting a sound right, or left etc but make it move)

I want to give the feeling that swords are moving just in front of us. The pan of each move is thoroughly calibrated.

See the original version, sounds are really weak, like little taser...we are talking about deadly lightsabers ! not cheerleaders sticks ^^ ! And many important sounds are missing. It's not good to put a sound on every move (specialy in a duel with 5 swords) but the missing sound in the original version are really important...The result is something very sluggish.

but you're right in that point : Some sounds are redundant, I need more lightsaber sounds, but I think, "in action", with music and without focusing on it, it works very well.

I made this video for you (this is not a public video) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNzuClwbTjw

Thanks all for your comment. I'm glad you like my funny clips

I will see what I can do with the premonition and the death of Dooku.

Erikstormtrooper, I have planed to create other clip with Vader using Anakin's dialogue : )

Here is now a difficult part. Initially, I had removed 90% of this sequence, but after reflection I thought I could do something to "saved it from certain death..."

Part 6 - Obi-wan confronts Grievous :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZjnAJPNLqY

I removed all the stupid stuff and create something much more serious and intense.
Obi-wan seems now more heroic - he is no more a "hotshot ninja" (OMG)

Yes no problem ! : )

Here is a video I have posted on another youtube account a few months ago.

Silverkey, with this you will perfectly understand my point :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKtuWpreKDU

another dedicated to Obi-wan :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqBMJq1NT6I

SilverKey said:

And maybe this is not the right place for this, but you keep criticizing or parodying Anakin's (admittedly mostly awful) lines by saying they aren't Vader enough, but I'd like to point out that Anakin hasn't always been Vader.

do not misunderstand me Silverkey : I don't cut Anakin's lines because they aren't Vader enough...but just because they aren't Anakin enough - Anakin is not a jerk, a DJ or a surfer...and be a good person doesn't mean be silly.

Anakin's behavior is too close to our times. This is for me the most important mistake.

I use Vader to parodying Anakin just to show the difference of atmosphere, not because I want te see Anakin be evil every time.

I would have loved to see Anakin have moments of joy with Padme, deep feeling...and a great friendship with Obi-wan (and not : yes master, yes master, sorry master...all the time) but it's so badly done...The love story of Anakin and Padme should  be an old school love story,  not  "Santa barabara" : )

I will respond to other posts tomorow !

cutnshut said:

everything is great the way you've done it. The balcony/dream sequence is really well done.

so looking forward to this - you've gotta add Vader talking to himself and reminising (spelling!)  about Padme after the end credits. that would just be soo cool after such a serious (sort of) movie.

Thanks again !

Yes It can be funny : )

The Concierge said:

Vader's mask descending coupled with the sound of the breathing is masterful. Really fantastic. I wonder if you could add more Vaderish dream prognostication...? But! As it is...great!!

Thank you !

What do u mean by "Vaderish dream prognostication ?"

rpvee said:

OK, here's my thing-by-thing critique.

Clip 1: Space Battle FX

- As I said before, you can't understand Obi-Wan AT ALL when he says "Well have you noticed the shields are still up?".  He also replies way too quickly to Anakin saying the ship is ahead.

In my edit Obi-wan just say " Have you noticed the shields "  - "are still up" is totally useless (and bad acting IMO, that's why I cut it)

when Anakin says "Grievous ship is ahead" it's just a kind of "brace yourself ! "...Obi-wan is not a jerk, he perfectly sees the ship ! so he is not really replies to Anakin
 

Clip 2: Landing and Grievous Voice

- Obi-Wan gets out of his ship way too fast.  The cut at 1:56 is way too abrupt and non-matching.

Yes I will correct this

- The music at the end of the landing fight/beginning of Grievous doesn't really fit.

I like it ! much more mysterious than the "Grievous theme"

- I like the new voice, but it isn't all that drastically different.

I just wanted to delete the "stupid side" of this voice - Now I don't want to die each time I listen to it. To have a completly new voice, I need a new actor.
But Grievous has a small role in my cut

- Too long a pause before Grievous says "Skywalker".

I am not sure. Grievous thinks : "as Dooku has predicted" and say : Skywalker ! - We may even feel Grievous anxiety in this little pause, which makes Skywalker more dangerous.

- The "Destroyers" scene now has even less of a point.
Yes

- Due to the cut dialogue, the cuts between the shots of R2 and the Battle Droids are way too fast.

I think it works fine. A quick clip showing R2 hidding, no need to add more

-Seeing the elevator speeding along, and then suddenly have it stopped to open its doors happens way too fast.

In a cut, all the sequences do not systematically occur in real time - it's a very common cutting process.

Keep in mind that many things may "hurt" you because you are used to the original cut.
 

Clip 3: Duel With Dooku and Escape

- The cuts between bowing to Palpatine, turning to face Dooku, and the shot of Dooku are too fast and jumpy.
a little

- How'd Dooku get down the stairs so fast?

Like he does in the original cut, with a stupid jump ! but we don't see it, that's all.

- I really, really love how the duel cuts between the battle now.  It makes the duel feel more Star-Wars-like.

Glad you like it ! and it give the feeling of a longer lightsaber duel

- The music at 4:09 doesn't work, too out-of-the-blue.

You're absolutely right, it is not necessary, that was just a test

- The cuts of the two ships battling work well.  Though seeing Grievous suddenly flying from outside the bridge is too fast, it had barely been established the bridge was hit.

a little too fast but it works ! it's a very dynamic cut that give the sensation of a strong explosion

- Why is the Jedi Starfighter flying bouncing around the hangar so much?
(yes a little too much)

It's just to enhance the feeling that the ship is badly hit

- The choir ending on Grievous' landing on the ship works well, as does the cut into Dooku.  I think if you establish the choir's music earlier in the two ships fighitng instead of having it burst out of no where in the middle of the sequence is all that needs to be done to make the music work here.

Yes it's true. But I din't find a quick way to do that. I have to work on it


- Anakin suddenly flying into a wall looks too random.

It's the price to pay to remove the kick...I can't stand this

- Grievous being in the pod back to the duel is a way too quick cut.
really difficult to extend it (I don't like : "time to abandon ship...")

- The cuts from Obi-Wan being thrown to Anakin kicking Dooku are way too disjointed-feeling.

Yes, I have corrected this last week

- The cut at about 5:17 is disjointed, Anakin and Dooku change where they are completely.

Yes...but seeing the Dooku CGI face makes me want to vomit.

- Good new music and cutting from then up to Dooku's be-handing.

Thanks, I worked hard on it

- Using Vader's Death during Anakin's remorse is something I just don't like at all.  For one, such an important piece of music being used in such a small moment makes the piece less important.  Also, we should not hear the Imperial March in full so soon.

Don't think about it (I know it's hard) like Darth Vader's death. Take it for what it is (I mean musically). And I think it's a really important moment : another step to the dark side. I like the idea of the fall and the redemption musically related in this way, with this music.

- Why the hangar so destroyed?  The ship hasn't gone through that much shifting in your edit, so there's no reason for things to be so thrown around.

remember your question : "Why is the Jedi Starfighter flying bouncing around the hangar so much?"
and much of the battle occurs during the lightsaber duel...it is not necessary to show everything

-The cuts of R2 flying out of the pike and going to the port are also too disjointed.

As I already said : all the sequences do not systematically occur in real time - it's a very very common cutting process


- The escape from the ship is a bit fast, but not too bad.
I did what I could with what I had  ; )
 

Clip 4: Padme's Revelation/Grievous Speaks to Sidious

- Anakin and Obi-Wan's conversation goes a bit quick.

Yes,  I fixed it few days ago. Adding : "Ninth time" from Obi-wan, and it works very well.

- Again with the Vader's Death music?!  It still doesn't work for the reasons stated before.
OMG I love this edit !


- The cut away from Sidious on the word "apprentice" is way too quick and abrupt.
Yes ! it's corrected

 

Clip 7: Anakin's Dream

- Not sure what the flashback to the wedding is supposed to be... kinda random, and seeing as how there's never flashbacks in Star Wars, it sticks out... a lot.

It's just here to make a transition between balcony sequence and dream, but you're right it's not really good. I thought yesterday to cut it.

- I REALLY like Vader in the dream.

Thanks !

- AGAIN with the Vader's Death music.  Even if I didn't feel how I did about the use of a full Imperial March and the importance of the piece, by now I would say it's overused anyways.

I never use the same passage of Vader's Death and I think it really works on this sequence


Thanks for your time !

Thanks all for your kind words and your good ideas ! I will see what I can do.

Here is the part 5 : Anakin's dream

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yRzR59nyj0

No major change here (exepted the massive cut of the romantic sequence).

Vader's mask and breathing added at the end of the dream...and new music (which brings intensity). I particularly love this part, it expresses very well all the story of Vader...and the "Williams eighties spirit"

cutnshut said :

things arent just cut, they are now edited back in a way which removes the need for the lame jokes, unecessary dialogue or bad effects. Which I felt totally works. (...) for example, seeing the shot of the cruisers broadsiding each other, The droid capitol ship being raked with fire all along its side and then the bridge shattering and Grievious being blasted out into space and fleeing in the escape pod... genius!

Thank you very much ! I really worked hard to make sense of it all

cutnshut said :

After seeing what ur doing for Revenge of the sith id love see your attack of the clones edit - is it available on fanedit.org?

I am new here, but after Revenge of the sith I will post my work on Attack of the clones and Phantom menace

cutnshut said :

It would be nice to see the moment Anakin gets his blades at Dooku's neck he doesnt hesitate and just cuts his head off...... and cut all of Palpatines lines to so he is now just watching while Anakin slays an unarmed opponent! much more un-jedi like! and the fact that he doesnt hesitate would make it more powerfull.

I thought about it a few days ago but forget it..very good idea !

The Death of Dooku - Prompt execution, no hesitation.. :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEONF1bNj4Y

and now the Surfer Dude Fed new voice test ! :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb6C9pipS_c

theconcierge said :

Grievous sounds fantastic here! Just sayin'....also, on the topic of the soundtrack, have you considered exploring classical music outside of Johnny Williams, but still within his stylistic range? It may help lessen the familiarity sorta "hey...this music is from that other movie..."

Thank you very much ! Yes if the need arises. The good thing about using the old Star Wars OST is that these musics make the connection between the two trilogy, stay in familiar atmosphere...which is one of the major problem.

theconcierge said :

I'm concerned cutting out the enforced concealment of their relationship will take away from Anakin's developing frustration with the Jedi....it's a thread taken up again during the couple's last confrontation "don't you see? we don't have to run away anymore"

I think that the enforced concealment is implied from the begining. Anyway I can't let Anakin do this kind of whisper ! : )

vaderios said :

This is great! I really love the cuted anie(one more arrow)-padme's conv. Its really straight forward and like you pointed no more teen movies :D I love the music that you chose there! As for the GG new music i can say this works to a point.. after that sounds a bit off while the chorus march of the general is cut/entered so violently to the the scene.

Thank you lord vaderios, glad you like it ! You' re right there is a problem. I think I'll do the opposite : cut the chorus and stay in a disturbing ambiance

vaderios said :

Any chance to use additional music from other JW works?

Yes if the need arises

Good music, intense.. I will see what I can do here.

I agree with you but the sequences you mention are really hard to cut... of course, no more : "only a sith deals in absolutes" in my cut !

and yes additionnal music and new music are an important part of my edit, as you can see in this new video :

Part 4 Padme's revelation / Grievous new voice test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh01WVvCafQ

Romantic sequences are almost all messed because they are too "teen love" and not "old shool" as they should have been.

Star Wars movies should never looks like a teen movie...especially not the "legendary" story about Anakin and Padme.

Thank you very much Erikstormtrooper and Jacobss for your comment !

Jacobbs, it's true that things go quickly but I don't think it's incomprehensible (even for neophyte ).As Erikstormtrooper said, I think this is a minor problem.

Only fan are interested by this kind of cut, that's why it's not really important if, sometime,  things go a little to fast.

It's a choice : let bad stuff or have a cut more "dynamic" with few minor problems. In my case, it's just impossible : the bad stuff when I see it, make me instantly "leave the movie" (specialy stupid joke, too bad cgi and "teen love")

I do not pretend make a perfectly cut (as you say, it's impossible without new material). I just want to enjoy the movie from the beginning to the end without having to slam my head on the wall every minutes...and this implies, in my case, to make some sacrifices.

My Attack of the clones cut length 1h20min ^^ I prefer a short movie than a long with stupid things.

but I understand perfectly your point of view ! which is quite relevant

Erikstormtrooper, my Palpatine vs. Mace fight and Anakin's turn cutting is really short...but IMO it's much better. You will see it soon !

"He is the traitor !!  no he is the traitor !! no !! it's him !! Anakin no !! it's him...no ! no ! no !  no !  no !  no ! You will die !! " 

wtf...

The Concierge said:

I believe "Surfer Dude Fed" is the Nemoidian who says "two Jedi have landed..." etc....he's got a lame voice. REAL lame.

 

lol it's true ( " all battery fire ! fire !! ")

I forgot him but I will fix it.

Part 3 : Duel with Dooku and escape

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKSWqQ_ZEOM

Unable to bear the most part of what happens in the Invisible Hand after the duel with Dooku (elevator, ray shield, stupid dialog etc) the most difficult was to terminate it as soon as possible.

Thank you for your comment !

Yes, you're right, things go a little to fast on my landing cut. I have to add a sequence (R2 or Anakin and his belt...)

I am still working on Grievous voice and yes I want to make it close to Vader (it's not easy because the voice is already treated and to much audio processing "kill" the sound)

I've never been bothered by this moving chair because it's makes sense that, even as prisonner, Dooku let him contemplate the battle (somewhat like the Emperor did with Luke in ROTJ ) If not, why is he in a great room, on this kind of chair and in front of a large bay window, rather than in a cell or something else ?

He is not a simple prisoner, he is the Chancelor, it's not absurd to think that he be granted the privilege to contemplate the battle on a confortable chair.

You can see on this close up the control panel of the chair. He can have full access to the chair's command and still be a credible prisoner ; )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02tIB-kF5a8

what do you mean by "the surfer dude Fed" ?

rpvee said:

Looks (or sounds, rather) really good! (...), the dialogue is really hard to understand.

Thank you rpvee ! it's corrected

Here is a new video dedicated to my work on Grievous voice and the landing sequence  :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daA2Bp4ssYg

vaderios said:

 

In some parts the same sfx it might be a bit repeated.

Yes but we must consider the fact that the excerpts on this video are one after the other. I'll watch the entire sequence again to see if it is obvious.

In addition to the "retro feeling" the cockpit sound give a sensation of speed

vaderios said:

The shot that tansformed the jet sound to TIE sound was superb!

Thanks ! I am very glad that you noticing it.
I got this idea after watching the 8 min preview of Reign of the Darkside (thanks to Bob Garcia ! ).

It's a very good idea to associate the TIE fighter sound to this wings stance. So I decided to improve it and create a sound which fits perfectly.

Here is a new video dedicated to my sound design on the Space Battle :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xnohSTkTiY

My edit is a radical cut. For example I don't like Grievious so he has a much smaller role on my cut. I also wanted to make him more darker and mysterious: no laughing, no cough, no stupide dialogue ...no more : "ah ah ah  !! I am really villain !! ah ah ah !! "  (wtf...) - I don't like his voice, so I changed it. You will see this and more on my next video.

In short : cut, cut and cut without regrets...to make things the more serious and dark as possible. Is this not the way it should be ? ^^

Hello everybody

I open this topic to present my edit of ROTS that I started several years ago (still work in progress : 90 %)

Rather than making a list of modifications I prefer presented my work through several videos.

original film name: Star Wars Episode III: Revenge Of The Sith
edit film name: Revenge Of The Cut
source : DVD - Star Wars soundtracks

edited by The Cutter / The Kcutter

Part 1 Space Battle :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4LIh7wvhI8

Video dedicated to my sound design on the Space Battle :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xnohSTkTiY

Part 2 Grievous new voice / landing sequence :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daA2Bp4ssYg

Part 3 Duel with Dooku and escape

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKSWqQ_ZEOM

Part 4 Padme’s revelation / Grievous speaks to Sidious (new voice)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh01WVvCafQ

The Death of Dooku - Prompt execution, no hesitation… :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEONF1bNj4Y

The Surfer Dude Fed voice test ! :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb6C9pipS_c

Part 5 Anakin’s dream

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yRzR59nyj0

Part 6 - Obi-wan confronts Grievous :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZjnAJPNLqY

Part 7A Mace confronts Palpatine / Sidious revealed - cutting process only

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vz6IClXgfY

Part 7B Mace confronts Palpatine / Sidious revealed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mumnasDetY

Part 8 - Darth Vader first strike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O_jRsZzH7k