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The Bizzle

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Join date
21-Aug-2004
Last activity
14-Feb-2009
Posts
529

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Post
#159001
Topic
If the Prequels had been made first would they have succeeded?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159001/action/topic#159001
Time
the 13 page summary he's talking about was his first story treatment for "Star Wars." Meaning his "backstory" was just a pre-rough draft version of what became Episode IV. He didn't write it to be a backstory, after refining the screenplay, he realized he could use that rough draft as an idea bank, essentially.

He didn't even come up with the idea of making Darth Vader = Anakin Skywalker until during story ideas for ESB. And ESB was titled "Chapter II: The Empire Strikes Back" for the first year of pre-prod.
Post
#158984
Topic
redeeming lucas
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158984/action/topic#158984
Time
Yeah adam, you sorta shot yourself in the ass with that "I haven't even seen ESB and ROTJ" I mean--you're on a board called OriginalTrilogy.com that's almost known now for the LD rips that reside on these boards more than the petition that brought people here a couple years ago--and you haven't watched 2/3rds OF the Original Trilogy? That's weak to be spending all this time speaking from a position of knowledge and understanding and not even WATCHING them.

Post
#158982
Topic
Why the saga has suffered because ESB was so good (IMO)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158982/action/topic#158982
Time
That is valid. I know I was excited by the idea of prequels, but honestly, a lot of that was because it was getting to live through a part of childhood I missed due to my birthday--I didn't see a Star Wars movie in a theater until Return of the Jedi, and I remember it, but vaguely. Only little bits. And the SE's in theaters was pretty cool--but I'd never seen a NEW Star Wars movie in a theater. And that prospect appealed to me greatly, plus I REALLY liked Lucas' visual sense.

But it didn't need to be the prequels, to me. It was interesting backstory, but it could have just stayed backstory and been just as good. I ended up liking the prequels a good amount, ROTS especially, but not because they were Prequels. But you're right, they weren't really NECESSARY movies. But what movie is?
Post
#158924
Topic
Why the saga has suffered because ESB was so good (IMO)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158924/action/topic#158924
Time
Yeah, that gets quoted every 3 or 4 months. Kurtz later apologized for the interview, I believe, because he admitted he unfairly slanted it against Lucas. Something along those lines. He didn't like how harshly he came off.

That and to say there's NO subtext in Phantom Menace is silly. if anything, there's too much, and it muddies up the economy of the storytelling.
Post
#158385
Topic
Why the saga has suffered because ESB was so good (IMO)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158385/action/topic#158385
Time
LOL. Wow, I know you're biased, dude, but at least PRETEND to be fair

Lucas had QUITE a bit of editorial override on ANH, and directed from editing just as much as he did on later movies. Sure, there were some times that Marcia and Richard just chopped together whole sequences and presented them to him for approval, but a LOT of the time Lucas was RIGHT THERE in the room with them directing them and helping edit right along with them. This isn't to take away from the Oscar they won or the time they put into it, but to act as if Lucas had nothing to do with the editing is disingenous

And on ESB, Lucas had a LOT to do with that story AND the screenplay. Kasdan himself admits a lot of what he did was simply dialog replacement. The story beats, the structure--that was all Lucas. He also helped oversee the editing there near the end. And considering the only part of ROTJ that EVERYONE universally declares as great are the throne room scenes--and those are the parts Lucas pretty much personally directed and edited together himself? C'mon now.

Lucas wrote ROTS, with SOME dialog punchup (mostly Palpatine's lines only) by Tom Stoppard. The rest of the script is entirely him, as well as the direction, which is possibly the most fluid and dynamic camerawork he's ever done.

In my mind, Lucas is the reason the saga's suffered, not esb.


Except he's also the reason the Saga has soared, so whaddya do?
Post
#158009
Topic
Info: The Frighteners - Signature Collection laserdisc preservation thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158009/action/topic#158009
Time
Update: Latest reviews of this DVD, which streets Tuesday, shows that everything on the Laserdisc will be ported over. New material will be limited to anamorphic transfer of the image, DD and DTS soundtracks, and a couple introductions from Jackson. The storyboards section of the 4 hour doc have been split off from the main doc and added to disc one instead.
Post
#157568
Topic
If the O-OT ever came out, the future of SW is with the PT fans.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/157568/action/topic#157568
Time
It won't have anything to do with the involving storyline, gorgeous cinematography, or sophisticated mythology.


Why so sure? It's not like the Original Trilogy's was all that expertly pulled off. I fully admit that my affection for this version of a classic myth comes from the fact I grew up with it. Would I have gave it as much time as I had, if not for the flashy candy coating on the outside? Maybe not. But you "always remember your first" and I look back on my introduction to this myth kindly. I think kids today will do the same.

But these kids aren't even really going to separate it into Original and Prequel. It'll just all be Star Wars. An 8 year old today isn't going to be all "OT vs PT" or whatever. It's just all going to be Star Wars to them. You have a point with Lord of the Rings, but then again, Lord of the Rings, much like Titanic before it, seems to have been very much of its time, and out of that time--it drops out of mind. All this King Kong hype, and how many people you know re-watching Lord of the Rings right now? I love those movies, I find them better than ALL of Star Wars, OT AND PT, due to their emotional depth and storytelling skill, but I haven't felt the need to throw one in the dvd player for about a year now. That sense of FUN just isn't there, and that's what keeps kids coming back to Star Wars. It takes itself seriously, but not TOO seriously.

What's fun is, once again, to look at these comments at the end of the PT, and compare them to older fans comments in 83. People then didn't think Star Wars would perservere with the younger people at the end of the whole shebang, either. And here we are.
Post
#157553
Topic
redeeming lucas
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/157553/action/topic#157553
Time
LOL. Except the Holiday Special was gutted and stuffed and bore little to no resemblance to what he really wanted, and Howard The Duck wasn't a movie he had any creative control over, he paid for it as a favor to Willard Huyck and Gloria Katz for their work on both Star Wars and Indiana Jones. He made no creative suggestions, he put his name on it to try and get it more money for his partners. That's about it.

But good try with the Howard the Duck thing. You'd probably be better off blaming him for Return to Oz, since he had to take over producing and some directorial duties for his friend Gary Kurtz after Kurtz left the production and Murch fell ill. At least with Return to Oz he actually dabbled in on-set duties.
Post
#157548
Topic
redeeming lucas
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/157548/action/topic#157548
Time
And I agree with Bizzle that maybe it is us who just don't like his stories anymore. Well, we certainly have legitimate cause to complain about that, don't we?

No doubt, Gaffer. I have some of the same complaints you guys have with all the movies. I think his stories are still his, and he still wants to tell them, just some of us don't wanna hear em no more. Which is fine. There are PLENTY of stories to go around. There's never gonna be a shortage of those, yunno? I don't begrudge anyone their dislike of some movies. Sometimes the reasoning is odd, but sometimes the reasoning is sound, and it's just a diffrent strokes for diffrent folks kinda thing.

Other than guiding ESB, ROTJ, Raider, Temple of Doom and Last Crusade....the guy has done NOTHING.

LOL. You just named 5 huge blockbuster movies. That's like telling a basketball fan "Other than coaching two different teams to championships, Phil Jackson hasn't done nothin!!" Not counting stuff like Willow and Labyrinth which didn't set the boxoffice world on fire, but were pretty decent flicks in their own right. Also not counting "Tucker" which was always a story he wanted to tell, and got to tell with Coppola. Also not counting helping build up Pixar before selling it off, and helping grow ILM, (I like how you just write that off as "so what if he grew the industry" as if all he had to do was flip a switch and check off a clipboard) and raising three kids on his own.

Yeah. he aint done shit alright. Not counting those 5 multimillion blockbusters, of course.

What we are doing here is QUESTIONING Lucas and his output and we draw conclusions.


But this is my point--you're not basing those conclusions on ANYTHING SOLID AT ALL. you're pulling them out of your ass based on the fact you didn't like a couple movies. That's it. There's nothing solid for you to base anything that you said. It's vapor. It's years of soap-opera villainy and stereotypical plotlines from a bunch of made-for-tv biopic type stuff. There's nothing substantial there, nothing you can point to, to give your opinion any weight whatsoever. That's what I was trying to talk against. You're creating a stereotypical burnout out of thin air and bad fiction, and then slapping a "George Lucas" label on it, and then acting as if THAT IS THE TRUTH. It's silly. That's what I'm trying to call attention to.

The moment Star Wars was released in 1977, the public bought it. We own it. We deserve it


And I'm sorry, but this is bullshit, too. I understand the sentiment, but it makes zero sense. The public didn't BUY Star Wars. you bought a ticket to WATCH IT. It's not a transference of ownership. You watching it a lot doesn't mean you bought SHARES in it, even if you bought so much stuff you COULD HAVE. All that ticket does is allow you to sit in someone else's theater and look at someone else's art for your own entertainment. Never, at any point, does anything but the memory of that experience stay yours. Next time you're in a theater, try telling the owner part of that theater is yours because you buy tickets there. Next time you're at the grocery store, try telling the checkout clerk the store is yours because you bought Raisin Bran there last week.

Ticket sales and DVD sales aren't binding ownership contracts. You bought a DVD, you didn't buy ownership rights to the film itself.

Post
#157508
Topic
If the O-OT ever came out, the future of SW is with the PT fans.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/157508/action/topic#157508
Time
I don't want those kinds of fans up in the front lines with no opposition.


I didn't know there was a war going on, and that movie fans were fighting in it. What's the goal of this war? What beachhead are we trying to secure with these front lines? What's the 4-F test these "kinds of fans" need to pass before they can have a helmet and a rifle?



Yeah, it'll be supported 35 to 40 years from now. it's Star Wars. Granted, this site isn't exactly the most fair and balanced when it comes to an overarching view of all six movies (nor should it be, there are other boards for that, I guess) but this sorta smacks of messageboard tunnelvision. I don't think CO is belitting any PT fans, though, but he's pretty well understimating the impact the PT has had on kids that were just like us when we first saw the Originals.

There's really no difference between "Fans Like Us" and "Fans Like Them." They're just younger. And I'm pretty sure if you could go back in time and ask our younger selves what we liked so much about Star Wars, we're not going to answer "Oh, the Cambellian riffs and the mythological aspects and the glorious cinematography." We'd probably say "the lightsabers and the ships and the "pchooo pchooooo rrrrrnnnnnn" as we run around the room in circles with our arms as S-foils.
Post
#157504
Topic
redeeming lucas
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/157504/action/topic#157504
Time
Now that spark has been extinguished by years of resting on his laurels improving the special effect industry instead of his own directing style and techniques.


Which is a drastically oversimplified and almost soap-opera cardboard thin characterization that doesn't have much basis in anything but simplistic bullshit.

C'mon man. Study up on the dude. His "Spark" was always pretty low burning. The most heated he got was when his dad said he'd never make any money at it. He also hasn't really been "resting on his laurels" considering people keep forgetting he CREATED Indiana Jones, and guided that character through three different movies. His directing style has grown and changed, evolved, that's visible just by watching the Prequels themselves, how Episode I doesn't have the same visual quirks as Episode II, which isn't as polished or assured as Episode III. Plus, it's not as if trying to revolutionize the way movies are made is "resting on your laurels" that's some hard work, man. It's certainly not EASY by any stretch of the word.

The idea that he needs an "edge" is comedy, to me. Filmmaking is not prizefighting. Lots of filmmakers make good to great movies every year without being "Hungry" or "antsy" with the "eye of the tiger" or whatever. He's doing pre-prod on a movie about black pilots during World War II right now. You're telling me this is a guy who's lazy and fat and uncaring who doesn't care about telling his own stories anymore? Now THAT'S what doesnt' make sense to me. He finishes the Prequel Trilogy, with a story unique to almost ANY speculation and prediction that swirled around it, stuck with it for over a decade, and moves from that to a movie about fighter pilots in world war II and the problems they had to go up against and you're saying this guys doesn't like telling his own stories?

or is what you're REALLY saying that "I don't like his stories so much anymore."

One of those is not the same as the other. There's nothing wrong with disliking (strongly) what he's making anymore. but it's pretty irresponsible to start claiming all kinds of character flaws you're pulling from nowhere but ancient stereotypes of OTHER PEOPLE that you've seen in fiction and movies, and ascribing them to a guy simply because he changed some stuff in some movies he did.

That's all I'm saying.

he's the same guy. He's older, he's grown a little, but the same creative mind, exercising it in the same creative way. Results may vary. Picasso didn't paint a masterpiece everytime the brush hit the canvas. Not pleasing everybody isn't a sign that the artist doesn't CARE anymore. That's a false leap in logic.
Post
#157445
Topic
redeeming lucas
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/157445/action/topic#157445
Time
Originally posted by: TheCassidywhat I would like to see is for him to put Star Wars away and move on to other things.

I know he can make other movies - now is the time.

As usual, I agree with Cassidy. Can't wait to see him stretch out a little like he used to before he caged himself in.

If the guy who made American Graffiti makes a comeback, I welcome him. I just wish he had come back in time for the prequels.


The guy who made American Graffiti wasn't there for "Star Wars" period. Because they're different movies. The guy who made THX wasn't there for American Graffiti, either, and neither of those guys were the guy who helped edit "The Godfather." But yet it's the same guy. You haven't seen either one of those two for awhile because he was busy being the guy who made "Star Wars" for about 30 years, with breaks for being the guy who created "Indiana Jones."

but as Cassidy said, the guy needs no redemption. Hell, to most people, if there was 'Redemption' to be had, "Revenge of the Sith" was that redemption. Hell, look at this thread. half of the people here don't even really know what they want outside of the original trilogy on DVD. Which, if you step back and look at it, doesn't sound like much of a "redemption" at all.



Post
#156477
Topic
who hates george lucas
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/156477/action/topic#156477
Time
I don't hate him. Hell, I don't even know him. I know some things about the guy, based off books I've read and such, but I don't know him at all. I've never met him. I'm certainly in no position to try and psychoanalyze the guy, much less ascribe personality traits like "arrogant" and "obsessive" to him simply because he's changed some things in some movies that I don't agree with.

he seems like a decent enough guy. Little shy, maybe. Weird sense of humor, it appears. I don't really know. Never met the man. I doubt anyone else here has, except for MagFan, maybe.

Why would you hate the guy? Why would hate even enter into the conversation? Why start a thread focused on whether or not there will be some hate involved? I don't get it.