The Aluminum Falcon

msycamore said:

The scan-line pattern on the screen is what surprised me as we discussed it at lenght in this thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Complete-Comparison-of-Special-Edition-Visual-Changes/post/450397/#TopicPost450397

Okay, so I checked your post and it seems that my strangling scene does more closely match the GOUT, with more vertical scan lines. That's weird since I thought the SWE and the JSC were from the same master...

However, looking at the Officers hologram, Emperor hologram, and Vader hologram, they look more like the JSC, as would be expected.

For those interested, I made a post on that thread comparing the strandline scene.

The Aluminum Falcon said:

I uploaded the strangling on the monitor scene, along with the Emperor scene to Megaupload here:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AA7BLEMB.

Has anyone checked the video I posted yet? I'd be interested in your thoughts. It shows the GOUT-similar strangling scene and the JSC-similar Emperor scene (preceeded by the Officers scene). At the end, I tacked on the Cave scene just so you can get an idea of the quality of my laserdisc transfer.

It hasn't been IVTC'ed and the audio somehow got out of sync, but I think the video is all right for being able to observe the scan lines.

Because it wasn't in the video, here's the Vader hologram:

Note it's similarity to the JSC, as should be...

In any case, I'm not sure if the SWE has more detail or if it's simply a different master all together.

Thoughts?

msycamore said:

Here is some "scanline-mania" for you guys...

'86 JSC LD - just horizontal scanlines, the same in the '92 US Pan & Scan LD

Hi everyone, sorry for bringing up an old issue, unfortunately it seems I have more scanline mania...

On the Smear Free '93 thread, msycamore pointed out that my Special Widescreen Edition had a slightly different scanline pattern for some shots... So here are comparisons:

SWE- The scan lines are much more like the GOUT's, having more vertical scanlines. However, isn't the SWE supposed to have the same master as the JSC.

 

GOUT - a different screen pattern

 

Anyway, the rest of the shots with scan lines, as far as the Emperor scene, Vader hologram, and officers hologram, look like the JSC, but still it's a bit odd that this one shot would be different...

In any case, I uploaded this scene to Megaupload here:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AA7BLEMB

It also includes the Emperor scene (with the officers talking to Vader beforehand), for further scanline observing, as well as the Cave Scene to get an idea of the general laserdisc transfer quality.

None of this is IVTC'ed but I don't think that that would cause this different scanline pattern in this one scene.

Would this mean the SWE is a different master than the JSC afterall, or does it just have more detail?

By the way, my pressing appears to be the Mitsubishi pressing of the SWE.

Thoughts?

msycamore said:

You can check the mint marks here: http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/00873/1425-85/Star-Wars:-The-Empire-Strikes-Back-(1980)

Thanks for the link. I was looking at the mint marks on my laserdisc and it does say C1425-85 like the Mitsubishi is supposed to; however, the second and third column don't match... Does this mean it's different or were those columns just an example.

On Side 1, my disc says B05 and B3OB07042. On Side 2, it just says A30B10644. On Side 3, it says 030B00836. Side 4 says C06 and C30B0467. Side 1 and 4 also say C1425-85, matching the description of the Mitsubishi.

Sorry, I meant horizontal detail. The scan-line pattern on the screen is what surprised me as we discussed it at lenght in this thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Complete-Comparison-of-Special-Edition-Visual-Changes/post/450397/#TopicPost450397

Ahh... I see. Now that you mention it when I watch that part on my SWE transfer, it does have more of a scan line pattern. I'll be sure to post a video in the morning, along with the Emperor scene.

EDIT: I just uploaded the strangling on the monitor scene, along with the Emperor scene to Megaupload here:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AA7BLEMB.

You can see the scan lines a bit more clearly than the GOUT. In any case, these aren't IVTC'ed yet, but I'm about 90% sure that the scan lines aren't just plain old interlacing... By the way, I included the cave scene just to show the general quality of the transfer I did. Pls. ignore the out of sync audio. Love to hear your thoughts.

Harmy said:

Other than that, I didn't really go by the GOUT colours so much this time, as I don't really like the GOUT colours on Jedi.

 That's great news! I didn't care for the GOUT colors either. In fact, my favorite colors are the ones on your theatrical reconstruction, so if it's anything like that, it will look wonderful. No more odd blue tints! :-)

msycamore said:

I think Mallwalker is investigating that.

 That's good. I'll be interested in his findings...

So, what pressing is your LD then?

Going by the info in the link I posted earlier, I believe mine is the Mitsubishi pressing since its got no surround check; however, I'm not sure. Is there any way of positively indentifying it?

your screen-cap isn't the same frame but it appears to display more horizontal resolution compared to the others, see the scan lines on the screen.

Oh crap. The cap I posted was from a transfer I made that I anamorphically enhanced with DVD Rebuilder. Would that make it appear to have more horizontal resolution?

Here's the original non-anamorphic capture:

I'm not sure if that makes a difference, so I'd love to hear your thoughts, msycamore. Additionally, what you perceive as additional detail on the screen may just in fact be video noise. Here's some other (non-anamorphic) captures from my LD to get an idea of the overall amount of noise.

Once again, I'd love to hear your thoughts on these. Looking at these again, you may be right about a tad bit more horizontal detail. Anyway, I made a whole capture of the laserdisc. I do say that it seems to look far better in motion; I could post a video clip if you wanted me to...

In any case, and I'm sorry if this is way too off topic, but I am using a Pioneer LD-V850 to transfer these and would be interested in some info about it. Is it related to the LD-V800 from Arnie.d's V8 Capture?

It would be funny if it included Jabba not being in ANH originally but I suppose Han shooting first takes precedence.

msycamore said:

I don't have the capability to capture LD's at the moment, but I plan to do it.

The Aluminum Falcon said:

By the way, would you happen to know how the Special Widescreen Editions of ESB and ROTJ hold up against the JSC?

I don't know for sure but from what I have seen on various screen-caps, the JSC seems to have a slight advantage:

 

 

Were there multiple pressings of the Special Widescreen Edition, some with better quality than others? When I tried transferring my copy, it ended up looking very dirty, especially compared to that screenshot. Of course, it could be that my laserdisc player, a Pioneer LD-v850, is just subpar; I just inherited it.

EDIT: Okay, just was surfing the web and noticed that the SWE did have multiple pressings: Pioneer, Mitsubishi, and Technidisc. See info here. Does anyone know if there were any differences in quality between them, as far as ESB and ROTJ?

It's a shame that when it airs on TV nowadays, it's not the TV Cut.

Bump. Found a widescreen version of the Pulp Fiction TV Cut, so I'm fine on that, the Repo Man extended scenes are what I was mostly interested in, and I don't think there was anything special about the Breakfast Club when its on TV. So, does anyone happen to have the AOD TV Cut?

Didn't know about the PAL issues... Though I haven't watched them that recently, I believe the NTSC DVDs were in pretty good shape, minus some annoying EE in Season 5 (which was an awful season in any case).

MrBrown said:

If Warner did some DNR to the BD which maybe wasn't done to the HD-DVD. But I don't know if thats the case...

I don't think this was the case, but I do agree that the best idea for a complete PAL version is downconverting a BDRip.

Harmy said:

Not true, when you look at these 70mm cell scans, there's actually more picture information on the sides than there is in the 2004 SE, which is the least cropped transfer to date.

 That's interesting... the PAL DVNR-free transfer I was referring to was said to have more picture on the top and the bottom to accomodate a less wide ratio of 2:20. I wonder if it also had more side information.

ray_afraid said:

And dontcha wish Tarkin could have appeared in all three films? He's my favorite Star Wars baddie by a mile.

 If only... ;-)

msycamore said:

...this transfer doesn't have the various color issues the JSC and first pressings of the SWE had on ANH, the major thing that bothered me on that transfer.

Oh well then. Would you consider doing a transfer after you finish your wonderful THX-1138 one? It seems you're having fantastic results on that one.

By the way, would you happen to know how the Special Widescreen Editions of ESB and ROTJ hold up against the JSC?

captainsolo said:

Ah, but then you would have a restored version that is from a cropped source. 2.35 to 2.21. ;)

Wait... really? They didn't letterbox things when they were on 70mm? I guess that explains were this DVNR-free French laserdisc was from, unless it was an Incredible Shrinking Ratio issue...

Knightmessenger said:

In this upload though, notice near the end that Obi Wan's light saber is green.

Interesting; I wonder why it's green. I know that this is a bit random, but recently when I was in the Disneyland Star Tours gift shop, they were playing a montage of lightsaber battles above this "Build Your Own Lightsaber" toy station. It was a cropped full screen video stretched on a low quality widescreen monitor.

Anyway, as I was watching the ANH lightsaber battle, I noticed something odd. The Death Star walls seemed to be grey with a light green cast; furthermore, while Ben had a light blue lightsaber, Darth Vader's lightsaber was virtually colorless and white...

While the monitor was admittedly set very bright, the ANH portion still seemed unlike the 2004 version and more like the old JSC/1980's VHSes. Of course, it's possible my eyes aren't good, but as all the lightsaber battles from the other movies played they looked like the 2004 DVD masters. ESB had Vader's pink lightsaber and the 2004 blue cast.

In any case, I thought this was odd. Does anyone else think this a bit strange? I tried to take a photo but it didn't turn out well. I'll post it if anyone thinks this is odd as well. I tried to adjust the photo's color to fit what I saw, but still...

msycamore said:

...if I switched the sides manually the crosstalk pattern weren't there any longer. :)

Oh, so this could make a worthy transfer after all... Without the crosstalk, is it an improvement over the JSC or the same?

As far as official releases of the unaltered original trilogy, the GOUT is best video-wise but the Definitive Collection Laserdiscs are better audio-wise. However, if you don't mind including the Special Edition, I agree with the others who said that the NTSC Special Edition laserdisc set has best overall audio and video quality.

Unfortunately, it seems that any of the official VHSes do not contain the original version of the pilot. The only place to find it seems to be a homemade recording.

However, No Mutant Is An Island's original version was used in some foreign territories, so it is possibly in the UK release of the X-Men Animated Series. According to tv.com, this X-Men DVD has the original version though I have yet to verify this.

SilverWook said:

As has been said elsewhere, the new Yoda has already been spotted at the "Star Wars in Concert" presentations. The PBS documentary about the concert tour also confirmed the change.

Yes; we did see that clip in Star Wars in Concert but it still isn't confirmed that a CGI Yoda has been created for the entire movie, has it?

TML said:

Guys, they just released the trailer for the Prequel's deleted scenes!

Ha! Very funny... Still, I do wish that they finished the effects on the Episode III deleted scenes where Shaak Ti dies. It could be good for fan edits if it wasn't so rough.

SilverWook said:

Does "The War of the Stars" ring any bells? :P

Think TMBTM will ever reconsider re-doing that with these new deleted scenes? They still seem grindhouse-y but just in color. Then he could have a chance to improved the aged film effect that was absent on the Interactive Boardgame clips.

Hmm... if TPM has a new master, I'm praying that it will have that improved Yoda showcased in Star Wars in Concert. TPM does deserve that improvement. As much as that film was a let down, that TPM Yoda puppet really sucked....

I wonder if there will be more noticable alterations to AOTC or ROTS...

dark_jedi said:

Laserdisc was the source for the 93.

 YES!!! I got a good feeling about this...

Bingowings said:

Kurt said:

Luke acts like a douche

It changes the structure but it could be made to work in an interesting way.

 

+1

It can make for an alternate ANH experience. Personally I think Luke's introduction in the film as it is, seems much more heroic; however, I think calling him a douche is too harsh... He seems more like a wimp. In any case, despite the Blu Ray set's shortcomings, I'll be interested in seeing the deleted scenes, even just to see Luke's introduction with its actual audio...

Also, that wampa clip looks very exciting. If it's in good enough quality and complete, it's bound to end up in countless ESB edits...