TestingOutTheTest

Only more specific things.

Removed Finn telling Rey he “never told you—“ while the heroes sink in the quicksand, as well as two subsequent references to it

I disagree with this.

I’ve seen people criticizing how Finn wanting to tell Rey something was never resolved, but that was literally the point. Finn’s arc in TRoS was that he needed to let go of his attachment to Rey and move on from her altogether. The moment he lets go of Rey is when he and Jannah find her dueling Kylo Ren and she pushes him away with the Force, and after that he not only lets go of his attachment to Rey but also puts an end to his notion that he reveal his Force-sensitivity to her.

Now, yes, he does sense her death and give her a hug alongside Poe once she returns to Ajan Kloss, but his attachment isn’t as over-the-top as it was earlier in the film. If Finn had told Rey he was Force-sensitive, then it would have undermined his arc.

jarbear said:

Pie in the sky dream, though not possible:

Palps: I am the Sith (semi call back to PT)

Rey: And I … am a Jedi. (who cares if your THE Sith, I’m a freakin’ Jedi bro!)

note: It’s not possible, but man I’d love that. Rey is NOT all the Jedi … she’s not the last airbender. /sarcasm Lol.

I asked JakeRyan to try doing a similar edit one time, though it isn’t “I am a Jedi,” it’s “I am the Jedi.”

If we were to do this, change Palpatine’s appearance to match with in RotJ.

2,000 comments!

The “Force-sensitive killer having to be tempted by the dark side and kill in anger” thing is supposed to explain why Palpatine can no longer return or did not possess Rey after his death, it is also supposed to be part of Palpatine’s initial plan to have Kylo Ren kill Rey to further himself into the dark side and prove himself worthy of the ritual.

Also, who’s Howard Day?

A while back I proposed on Hal’s thread that Rey’s parents be changed from noble people to shitty people who thought their daughter was worthless because she was a Palpatine and they feared of what she’d become, preserving the reveal from TLJ and Rey’s arc that needed to stop caring about her parents because they thought she was worthless.

Aside from changing Ochi’s ship to a different one in the TFA scene while keeping Ochi’s ship the same in the actual TRoS, is this plausible?

Now, JJB did point out that Rey needed a motivation to further into the dark side so the ritual would work, but I did propose that Palpatine either kill Leia or taunt Rey that he killed her, something along those lines.

Hal 9000 said:

Remove Finn’s line “He wanted her alive.”

So… you’re removing how Palpatine wanted Rey alive before her parents abandoned her and he had to switch to Ben Solo? ,':I

Movies Remastered said:

My first thought would be, If the deleted scene of Rey running to the village is added to TLJ would that be considered “lesson 3”?

I also like how Luke interrupts Rey. It matches Luke’s attitude in TLJ. I also like 4.

I think this could go somewhere. Great work, dude.

P.S. I cut the “It was fear that kept me here”. line from Luke as I felt it contradicted the “Fear is the destiny of a Jedi” line.

The full line is actually, “Confronting your fears is the destiny of a Jedi.”

Hal 9000 said:

I don’t plan on altering the ‘noble’ retcon of Rey’s parents. I don’t remember how that shaping up for the Rey Nobody version, but not for the primary release version.

Try thinking about this: would you rather undermine Rey’s arc in TLJ (that she learns to stop caring about her parents altogether) by keeping the TRoS reveal that her parents did love her, or would you preserve Rey’s TLJ arc by editing it so her parents thought she was worthless because she was a Palpatine and they feared of what she’d become?

ThisIsCreation said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

AntonioGK said:

Any thoughts about the possiblity of changing the lines “weak, like your parents”… to “weak, like your masters”?

No. I believe it would fit in with my proposed idea of having Rey’s parents be bad people who abandoned her because she was a Palpatine and feared of what she’d become while ensuring Palps doesn’t transfer his essence into another Force-sensitive, which f$^!ed up his plans.

I think Rey’s parents were dealt a bad hand and tried to separate themselves from her for her own safety.

I don’t see them as selfish or bad.

TLJ established that Rey’s parents thought their daughter was worthless, that’s what I meant.

AntonioGK said:

Any thoughts about the possiblity of changing the lines “weak, like your parents”… to “weak, like your masters”?

No. I believe it would fit in with my proposed idea of having Rey’s parents be bad people who abandoned her because she was a Palpatine and feared of what she’d become while ensuring Palps doesn’t transfer his essence into another Force-sensitive, which f$^!ed up his plans.

Why do people misinterpret the lessons from TLJ so much? They weren’t about training Rey, they were intended to explain to her as to why the Jedi are inherently flawed.

• I do like TestingOutTheTest’s interpretation of Rey’s arc, but I don’t think her giving the lightsaber to Leia (and then getting it back a few minutes later) actually does anything for it. It feels totally half-baked, like an idea JJ and Terrio had but then forgot to expand on and just left in anyway. I also prefer the implication that Rey has been struggling with her training and ‘making excuses’ about it for a while, whereas leaving it in sort of makes it seem like this is the first time. I’m also not the biggest fan of the importance the films place on that saber to begin with; Luke only used it for a few years, long before he became a legendary Jedi Master, so it’s much more iconic in the real world than it ever was in-universe - it feels like another symptom of JJ’s love for the OT sort of meta-infecting the universe itself (see also “this is the ship that made the Kessel run in 14 parsecs!”), but that’s a whole different discussion.

Rey only gets the saber back for the trip to Pasaana because she needs something to defend herself with.

• I still believe editing TROS such that Rey’s parents were always bad people is feasible. Rey can still be mad that Palpatine killed them, even if they were terrible people. She does have reasons to hate him other than that too, such as him being Space-Hitler, his corrupting influence on Ben (to whatever extent she’s aware of that), and even surface-level stuff like Luke telling her she has to face him. I think the toughest question to answer with this change would be what was mentioned previously: why wouldn’t Rey’s parents give her up to save themselves? I think there’s a few ways you could come at that. Perhaps Rey’s Dad and his wife hated Palpatine so much they were willing to withhold that information just to spite him, even if it meant their own deaths, as someone (Jar Jar Bricks?) suggested earlier in the thread. It’s still essentially a sacrifice to save Rey, but it leaves them morally grey rather than having them be retconned into the loving parents that Rey wishes they were. Or maybe they did try to sell Rey out, but didn’t know exactly where she’d wound up - I’m sure there’s plenty of Jakku outside Niima Outpost - so Ochi killed them anyway. It does get a little contrived, I admit, but it’s not like this movie’s plot is rock solid as is, and I personally think it’s worth it to avoid undermining the TLJ reveal.

I proposed (mostly before) that, while they hated Rey for being a Palpatine and feared of what she’d become due to a combination of her Force-sensitivity and her heritage and wanted her to suffer for this, they also wanted to ensure Palpatine is unable to use Rey for the Sith ritual.

Also, to DC, how would “the birth of her son” be an effective motivation for Leia to quit her training, exactly?

CaptainFaraday said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

Palpatine changed his mind about using Rey for the Sith ritual because her parents abandoned her as if she was worthless because of her lineage/hid her away (yeah, you can still make Rey’s parents “bad” people, which would preserve Rey’s TLJ arc of learning to stop caring about her parents because they thought she was worthless) and he didn’t know she was on Jakku. Then Palpatine decides to go after Ben, the descendant of the Skywalkers. He demanded Ben kill Rey since he no longer has any use for her. When Ben redeems himself, this fucked up Palpatine’s plans to possess a healthy, non-clone body, so he goes after his own granddaughter again.

But Kylo was on Exegol previously; there was no reason Palpatine couldn’t have done it when Kylo first arrived, if Rey wasn’t needed for the ritual. I also don’t follow why Rey’s parents abandoning her would affect Palpatine’s plan (I agree it would be better if TROS stuck to TLJ’s arc of Rey-being-her-own-true-parent), nor Ben’s redemption, actually.

I couldn’t follow that final scene in the cinema and even now it’s a rubick’s cube to try and figure out in retrospect.

Palps believes that Kylo killing Rey would cement himself further into the dark side, for the ritual to work. And the reason Rey’s abandonment affects Palps’ plan is because he no longer knows where she is, therefore he is unable to find and get her, so he turns to Ben instead because he does know where he is.

Regarding Ochi’s ship, I proposed that we replace the ship in that Force vision from TFA with a completely different one to fit in with my proposed series of changes regarding Rey’s parents and how them being good people undermines her arc in TLJ. Reduce Ochi to just a generic Sith assassin, no connection to Rey’s parents.

Who added in the TIE fighters into that shot for the Mustafar scene? 😉

Hal 9000 said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

After giving it some thought after my debate with JJB… I propose that the ship we see in Rey’s Force vision in TFA (yes, TFA) should be changed so it wouldn’t be Ochi’s ship, also remove Rey’s familiarity with Ochi’s ship which MR describes.

One teeny consideration would be that Finn has a ‘connect the dots’ moment about that. He heard Rey tell him she recognizes it as Ochi’s ship, and then later he tells Poe what he learned from DO about Ochi’s true mission.

But yeah, the Ochi’s ship thing doesn’t make a lot of sense. Did they drop Rey off and immediately get abducted themselves? In TFA it sure looks like she is screaming at the family car. I guess she really just saw her parents put into some random ship and taking off?

I’m considering having D-O explaining Ochi’s mission be removed, especially since a device shows to the Resistance that Rey is (unintentionally) leading the way to Exegol.

After giving it some thought after my debate with JJB on the Ascendant thread… I propose that the ship we see in Rey’s Force vision in TFA (yes, TFA) should be changed so it wouldn’t be Ochi’s ship, also remove Rey’s familiarity with Ochi’s ship.

EDIT: Nevermind, I think we can still continue it in Hal’s thread…?

After giving it some thought after my debate with JJB… I propose that the ship we see in Rey’s Force vision in TFA (yes, TFA) should be changed so it wouldn’t be Ochi’s ship, also remove Rey’s familiarity with Ochi’s ship which MR describes.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I remain unconvinced it would work properly, sorry. Definitely has potential in written form where you can change visual details and lines so easily.

Their hatred for Rey (who is just a child) would not be enough for them to want to die for themselves to ensure she suffers.

I’m sure Hal has more to say on the matter, but I feel this is one of those bad things that TROS does that simply cannot be changed without making things worse.

I never said they wanted themselves dead?

Jar Jar Bricks said:

All of these ideas would be wonderful for Capatain Faraday’s novelization. I’m just uncertain, like I said previously, that we have enough content here to successfully do what we’re talking about in film.

EDIT: Realized another reason why this wouldn’t work. If Rey’s parents had abandoned her, they would have given Palpatine her location without a second of hesitation. This muddies everything up because Ochi’s ship is the same ship that her parents use.

Yeah, but they hate Palpatine and, in this case, Rey. They would want her to suffer on the hell that is Jakku while ensuring Palpatine doesn’t transfer his essence into another Force-sensitive.

It is possible to replicate one’s voice and put it to text-to-speech using an AI… (for example, here)

Then have Palpatine kill Leia… or at least convince Rey that he killed her, or remind her that his actions resulted in atrocities such as Kylo Ren killing her father figure. Something like that.

Only problem with this is… well, the reason Palpatine decided to bang is because he is suffering in a clone body, believing that he would be thriving in the body of a Force-sensitive that is not a clone. His son turns out to be a non-Force-sensitive, and once he conceives Rey, Palpatine goes after her so he would groom her into performing the Sith ritual. When her parents abandon her, Palpatine decides to go after Ben Solo instead, he is the only other person he can groom into performing the Sith ritual.

Hey Hal, I’ll expand upon stuff regarding Rey’s arc…

A lot of people seem to misinterpret Rey’s arc in TLJ as forming her own path without relying on others, and that it is just about her being Rey Nobody. This is incorrect; her arc is about accepting that the belonging she seeks is not going to be her parents, and how she comes to terms with how her parents believed she was worthless, resulting in how she no longer cares about her parents.

Rey wants to feel loved by her parents, she refuses to accept the truth that they think she is worthless, that nobody is there to care for her.

There is a reason why Rey spent all of her years, waiting for them to come back. She has been lying to herself that she has some grand destiny which is why her parents left her, showing that they love her and care for her, that she is worth something, but however… she wants to know what that destiny exactly is. She has been lying to herself that if she had learned what her destiny was via finding out who her parents were, she would feel loved, since in this hypothetical scenario they abandoned her for an important reason, showing how much they care for her. But they don’t.

When Kylo Ren gaslights her, she finally learns to stop living this lie, to accept the truth that they weren’t significant people who had a reason to leave her, but rather insignificant people who didn’t have an important reason for leaving her behind, that they didn’t care about her nor love her. The truth that they hated her. That she is worthless.

The “place in this story,” itself, never really mattered to Rey. She only intended to use it as a way to justify her parents abandoning her so she’d feel loved. So she’d belong to them, similar to how Woody wants to belong to Andy in the Toy Story films. The reason she says to Luke that she “needs someone to show her, her place in all of this” is that she wants to find her importance only for the sole purpose of using it to justify her parents abandoning her, feeding the lie that they cared about her and believed that she was worth something so that lie would never die off, so she’d feel loved.

But Rey is wrong. This was the point. In TLJ, her arc isn’t about her being Nobody… as I stated, she learns to stop caring about her parents because of how they think she is worthless. They only used “nobody” was a way to drive home the point that Rey’s parents did not have a good reason to abandon her which would imply they did love her, but that they were bad people who abandoned her because they thought she was worthless.

And Rey being Palpatine’s granddaughter alone does not undermine her TLJ arc, but her parents being good people does, because it means that she stopped caring about her parents all for nothing. They should’ve had it so her parents abandon her because she is a Palpatine [furthering her belief that being a Palpatine inherently makes her worthless (which Luke debunks by bringing up Leia)], which would preserve her TLJ arc.

sherlockpotter said:

While we’re on the topic of additional lines that might warrant some tweaking, I have a few contenders:

• Rey’s line about “I will earn your brother’s saber…someday.” There’s never been any indication that she felt unworthy using the lightsaber in the previous two movies, and she doesn’t end up “earning” the saber at all; it’s just handed back to her five minutes later. Also, Rey ends up using an entirely different saber in the finale? And she gives Luke’s to Kylo? (The only rationalization I can think of is that it’s subtextually foreshadowing “Ben will earn your brother’s saber”? But that’s unbelievably messy, even by this film’s lofty standards.) I dunno, it doesn’t make much sense. It’s another “Rey, I never told you- Blurgbruglbgrub” - They set something up, and then they forgot to pay it off. Maybe Rey could simply say “Here,” as if she’s just “hanging up” her weapon after practice? Or reverse the footage - Leia gives the saber back to Rey as a show of encouragement? (Implied that Rey gave it to her after the training course out of frustration.)

[WARNING: This will probably go into rant territory. You have been warned…]

You missed the point of Rey’s entire arc. In the years after she was abandoned by her parents, she formed this subconscious, irrational core belief that she is inherently worthless; in other words, she has issues regarding self-esteem. She believes this lie that the only way to feel happy, to feel loved is if she gains approval from others as well as if she pleases others which would then result in said others giving her the validation she desires to make herself feel happy; why do you think she freed BB-8 from Teedo? Why do you think she bypassed the compressor on the Falcon? Why do you think she told Luke that she would not fail him in the way Kylo Ren did?