TestingOutTheTest

The following titles aren’t even original, I found them on the Internet and thought I should use them as they’re more fitting than what we got.

The Phantom Menace --> An Ancient Fear. It’s more of a dark take on A New Hope, and emphasizes the Sith as ancient, like the Jedi.

Attack of the Clones --> Army of the Republic. So it’d be less misleading (some would think the clones are attacking our heroes), and focuses on the Republic’s need for an army.

A New Hope --> Ways of the Force. Emphasizes Luke being taught the ways of the Force, hell, it even pays off in the climax of the fucking movie!

The Force Awakens --> Shadow of the Empire. This was the original working title for the movie and was named after Shadows of the Empire from the EU, but was scrapped in favor of what we got. This never should’ve been scrapped in the first place, it emphasizes the themes of legacy and how the characters and the First Order are living in the shadow of the Empire.

The Rise of Skywalker --> The Fate of the Skywalkers. It’s a more ambiguous and fitting title for the end of the saga and how the Skywalker story would conclude.

Movies Remastered said:

I’m not sure how that is relevant to your attitude but try not to blow your rare second chance by constantly going up against people who actually care about this edit, ah!

You’ve made it clear several times that you don’t care about this cut so it’s really profound that you insist on constantly shitting on everyones posts and causing so much negativity. I’ve been away for a month and you’re still playing the same tune. Change the record, dude! It’s boring AF!

I never said I hated all the edits in Ascendant. In fact, there’s a decent amount of 'em I actually agree with, but Hal did with what he’s had (as in, some would be executed better on script).

Head mod unbanned me with another chance. I spent a lot of time on /r/saltierthancrait (former hater here!) and /r/saltierthankrayt.

I am engaging in conversations. I’m proving them wrong, they’re trying to prove me wrong, everyone tries to prove each other wrong. I’ve had a history with /r/saltierthancrait (former hater here!) and /r/saltierthankrayt. I’m just playing my part. And I’m stern so I can emphasize my point.

As if it’s my intention to piss anyone off?

Rodney-2187 said:

“For over a thousand generations, the Jedi knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the old Republic… before the dark times… before the empire.”

Nothing in the prequels contradicts this line from the originals.

I never referred to the prequels, I referred to the OT as a standalone.

How am I trolling? I’m not provoking you or anything, I’m proving my point. That continuity doesn’t matter. Or at least your double standards should be consistent. Be careful with film criticism, because it can be applied to anything, and I mean anything.

Servii said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

The ST is beholden to the preestablished lore, and should be logically consistent.

So you’re saying the FO could rise to the way they are?

Given the vigilance you would expect from the Galaxy against the Empire returning to full power and building another massive planet killer, no, they likely couldn’t.

They literally hid from the galaxy. It’s a massive place. The fact that they weren’t fully destroyed by the Republic & Rebels implies they went into hiding.

The Empire was reduced to a small fringe faction. The fact they had the massive amount of resources needed to produce a galaxy-seizing military and Starkiller Base, all without the Republic noticing, stretches the viewer’s belief.

Again, it’s a massive galaxy. It’s not like the Republic rules all of it. Same with the Empire in the OT, we saw Tatooine, Endor, Dagobah, Hoth, Yavin, Alderaan and Bespin. Also, they had an entire fucking planet to stripmine for resources. Why do you think the trench was there?

Also, my examples are incompatible. How did the Empire come into existence when they clearly didn’t exist during the “before”? How can a new faction somehow overthrow a thousand generations old Jedi Knights and Republic?

Because that’s how time works. “Before” and “After” will always be different because the only constant in reality is change.

So you’re saying that, for example, if a car in a desert was always unable to fly and there’s no mechanics or tech support guys, and in the next minute it’s suddenly able to fly… still in a desert with no sense of civilization nearby, that isn’t a plot hole? That it’s a “before, then after”?

And when Star Wars first came out, we didn’t know the details of this history. But, since Star Wars wasn’t a sequel to anything, we didn’t need to. What we saw in ANH was the universe as it was being introduced to us. So it could be whatever sort of universe the story required.

That’s like saying plot holes within any individual standalone movie itself can be justified as it being a NeW uNiVeRsE. Like with the car example. And again… the Empire, a new faction, somehow being able to overthrow two factions THAT ARE A THOUSAND GENERATONS OLD. Is. A. Contradiction.

@sherlock I feel like dramatic stuff can work as being a sort of a joke. Look at the hyenas in The Lion King, for example.

The ST is beholden to the preestablished lore, and should be logically consistent.

So you’re saying the FO could rise to the way they are?

Also, my examples are incompatible. How did the Empire come into existence when they clearly didn’t exist during the “before”? How can a new faction somehow overthrow a thousand generations old Jedi Knights and Republic?

My example is still a contradiction. That’s my point. The Empire rising and defeating the Jedi and Republic contradicts the fact that they lived for a thousand generations. The Empire rising is a contradiction to the “before”.

@sade I thought Hal already removed the reference to R2 restoring his memories?

I mean, the point is that Rey doesn’t get her answers and is left alone, having no choice but to turn to Ben. When Kylo, in the very elevator, reveals he saw who her parents were… this may be the last glimmer of hope.

???

NeverarGreat said:

(In my subjective opinion) she’s always felt this way.

Also I feel like that’s like saying Thanos killing half of the universe is just an opinion and not an actual plot point that exists. (Note to myself, I can’t believe this is gonna turn into an objectivity vs. subjectivity argument…)

They’re clearly talking about the entire arc, not a single moment.

That’s what I was referring to here. The weight of any emotional moment in anything comes from the trauma of seeing it unfold. Moments like these in anything serve solely to traumatize the characters and the audience. If anything, I think it reinforces the trauma from seeing his memories get erased. His memories still got erased.

It would be pointless if the rest of the movie was non-canon.

sherlockpotter said:

Why does Rey care about Leia’s “blessing”?

I feel like the point is that Rey doesn’t feel worthy. She’s always felt this way. She even hands back the saber to Leia, earlier in the movie directly after getting the Force visions.

EDIT: The edit was requested by Neverar.

…Fine.

Okay, another plot hole in ANH. The Empire, clearly a new faction, somehow overthrew a thousand generations old Jedi Order and Republic.

Also, “Before the dark times, before the Empire” is also a plot hole, because the Empire existing now contradicts the fact that they didn’t exist before the dark times and Empire. How did we go from the Empire being nonexistent to even existing in the first place? ANH should’ve given us 46,853 years of exposition explaining how the Empire came into existence and overthrew a thousand generations old Republic and Jedi Order so none of those two plot holes would exist.

See? Those are contradictions.

CamSMurph said:

Hal 9000 said:

And while I appreciate the work, I feel the scene as it is in V1 works better in the order it is. Just two bordering establishing shots of the Falcon.

And, if anything, I’d prefer to imply 3PO never regains his memory other than R2 verbally bringing him up to speed. I don’t think invoking prequel memories would be advisable or possible to pull off.

Agreed wholeheartedly. Leaving his memories “permanently” wiped would give his arc at least some impact.

Doesn’t the impact come from the initial trauma/reaction from the audience of seeing 3PO’s memories get wiped?

I’d be more of build-up. It doesn’t confirm WHY they abandoned her. Also in TFA and TLJ pre-throne room they already give out evidence and hints of Rey’s insecurities. (That’s also my Reddit post.)

I know where to properly (re-)introduce Rey’s insecurities and have the paragraphs planned. Try replacing the specific stuff about Jakku and the “place in this story” in the cave scene with this…

(It’s a WIP, and some of the wording might not be “novel-y”, but you get the idea.)

For the longest she could remember, deep down, Rey believed, unknowingly, that because her parents have abandoned her, it meant that she was, indeed… worthless. And for the longest time, she blamed herself for that. A hole in her heart, a constant pain that could never go away. But despite that, she knew how harmful these feelings were, to herself, and how much it has stripped her away of any sense of happiness, so she had to resort to such desparate choices, or so she believed.

As Kylo himself pointed out, she saught after her parents everywhere. In Han Solo, then in Skywalker. Even during the roughest years of her’s on Jakku, she saught to prove herself to others, even those in need, to gain their respect, under the hopeful assumption she’d get that sense of happiness back. To become happy, and whole. And fulfilled. But even whenever she could succeed in achieving that, it would never have lasted this long.

It truly was a constant pain of her’s. [Insert something about how Rey’s depression and self-loathing consistently resurfaces.]

But it wasn’t completely hopeless, or so she believed. She had been waiting all those years of her’s on Jakku, waiting for her parents to come back… for her. She had hoped, for the longest time, it would validate her for as long as she could live. Maybe even for an eternity. She had always believed that there had to have been a reason for her own parents’ abandonment of her, because otherwise, as far as she could believe… she was worthless.

And this was exactly was she was looking for, here in this cave. Had her parents been shown in that very mirror, she would’ve seen who they really were. Seen that if they were important in all this, so was she. But no. [Insert a sentence or two saying that Rey didn’t get what she wanted or failed to get that validation from specifically her parents.]

(Side notes: 1. Hoping that you go back and edit sentences and stuff from later to fit with this [ahem the throne room reveal] 2. I took notes from what I initially posted all those months ago)

Neerb said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

Ed Slushie said:

I was thinking about how Krausfadr said that hopefully people would continue looking at ways to move Palpatine’s reveal to later in the movie, and I just thought of something: What if it were moved to the midpoint, right after Rey escapes the Star Destroyer? It would go something like:

• Kylo feels he’s failed at getting Rey to team up with him against Palpatine
• Kylo goes to Exegol to try and kill Palpatine by himself
• Palpatine reveals he’s dying (someone already altered that scene to have him say “I don’t have long”) and offers to make Kylo the new Emperor
• Kylo is told to kill Rey
• The next time we see him he’s on Endor, seemingly ready to do just that (we’d need to remove some dialogue, but that shouldn’t be hard because a lot of what he says in that scene is spoken off-screen anyway).

Why wouldn’t Palpatine want to do the spirit ritual with Ben if he’s dying?

Tbh, I think that’s a fair question even of the theatrical movie, where Palps’ body is basically a cyborg corpse from the beginning. The answer in both cases could be that he still fears Rey and wants Kylo to take her out without risk to himself, a plan which he changes after Kylo fails and Rey comes to him willingly.

I mean, he later decides to do the ritual with Rey

In the film it’s obvious he wanted Ben to win (“The princess of Alderaan has disrupted my plan…”).

Also wouldn’t he resort to desparate measures?

Ed Slushie said:

I was thinking about how Krausfadr said that hopefully people would continue looking at ways to move Palpatine’s reveal to later in the movie, and I just thought of something: What if it were moved to the midpoint, right after Rey escapes the Star Destroyer? It would go something like:

• Kylo feels he’s failed at getting Rey to team up with him against Palpatine
• Kylo goes to Exegol to try and kill Palpatine by himself
• Palpatine reveals he’s dying (someone already altered that scene to have him say “I don’t have long”) and offers to make Kylo the new Emperor
• Kylo is told to kill Rey
• The next time we see him he’s on Endor, seemingly ready to do just that (we’d need to remove some dialogue, but that shouldn’t be hard because a lot of what he says in that scene is spoken off-screen anyway).

Why wouldn’t Palpatine want to do the spirit ritual with Ben if he’s dying?