EU purists who insist it was a part of George’s vision and that the prequel and the EU all fits together as one piece.
Oh my, this. They should familiarize themselves with the historical-critical method and apply it to SW lore.
Regarding ghost Anakin having the Tatooine robes, Anakin was from Tatooine so many people have made the argument that it is representing that, not the Jedi uniform.
I prefer to believe that Anakin modelled his spectral form after Ben’s in an effort to make his appearance as benign and comforting to Luke as possible. A militaristic black uniform may’ve been a tad off-putting.
I am “NOT” losing interest in the things I used to enjoy. I’m losing access to the things I used to enjoy.
I typed this in to google. Only the AI gave a response that was not about Loss of Interest in things I used to enjoy.
Butlerian Jihad when?
Heather Langenkamp
“Oft have I digg’d up dead men from their graves and set them upright at their dear friends’ doors, even when their sorrows almost was forgot; and on their skins, as on the barks of trees, have with my knife carved in Roman letters, ‘LET NOT THY SORROW DIE, THOUGH I AM DEAD’!”
Toni Halliday
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The Colour Hurts
I Dream of Love as Time Runs Through My Hand
Love Is Blue
A Million Years Into the Sky
Now I’m Sick and Always Will Be
Your AI Girlfriend Is Going to Give You a Virus
I’m not the biggest Spaceballs fan. I’m mostly in this to see Rick Moranis in something again (I wasn’t yet ten years old when he did his last live-action performance, for crying out loud).
(If only I knew how to properly do image or video embeds in this site.)
AFAIK, video embeds aren’t a thing here, but you can embed images.
Project Pitchfork - Blood-Diamond (See Him Running)
Monarchism in a nutshell.
plot wholes
You mispelled “whores”.
;-P
I wonder if at any point developing Rotj, George considered making Luke into “Luke Vader” and keeping Anakin a separate character than Darth.
He should’ve.
If Jesus saves, he’d better save himself from the gory glory-seekers who use his name in death.
Going into the heart of darkness to understand the darkside is exactly what Ulic did. It seems to be something Veitch was interested in, if he used it more than once.
I’m going to infiltrate the Sith from within and slowly walk the path, I won’t fully go over. He gets a taste of power like a drug and it’s so seductive he loses himself. Then he slays his brother, a kinslaying there is no going back from that. Nomi took pity on him and cut him off from the force.
Yoda warned Luke. not to walk the quick and easy path. Forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will as it did Obi-Wan’s apprentice.
Veitch had it that multiple Jedi attempted to conquer the dark side from within, but none succeeded. Luke didn’t succeed, either, for that matter; he just didn’t lose himself as fully as his predecessors. Veitch even intended Ulic to die unredeemed to show how great a price he paid, though KJA changed that with Redemption. Redemption’s a well-written story, probably Anderson’s best writing in anything ever, but I still feel it undermined the tale Veitch intended to tell.
I think it’s a misreading of DE that Luke embraces the dark side in the story. Luke is attempting to understand the secrets of the dark side, both to understand why his father turned and as a means of conquering the dark side from within, but he underestimates the sheer oppressive nature of the dark side and comes dangerously close to succumbing to it, but Leia comes in at just the right moment to pull him back from falling into that abyss.
The problem is that Dark Empire basically rehashes something that already happened and was resolved at the end of Return of the Jedi. Luke already flirted with the Dark Side. He was right there on the edge, he nearly killed Vader in anger. That was his moment of temptation, and he overcame it. That was the whole point of his character arc in the Original Trilogy: he saw what his father became, he almost followed the same path, and he chose to stop and throw his weapon away. So when Dark Empire comes along and says, “He flirted with the Dark Side again, was almost about to fall, and it took Leia to bring him back,” it just undercuts everything that came before. It feels like going in circles instead of progressing the story. From a narrative standpoint, it is just not satisfying.
Guess I can understand that position from someone who enjoys ROTJ. I don’t enjoy ROTJ. What you see as a rehash, I see as an improvement.
*yawn*
yawn yeah it does
Can you elaborate?
I’m not going to watch that video but at the very least the title is misleading. Hell comes up in the bible as either Sheol/Hades like the Greek concept as a place for dead spirits, or Gehenna, which is named after a valley in Israel and symbolizes fiery torment and burning. It’s worth noting for all the people here who are fans of sanitized 21st century-friendly hippie Jesus that Christ talks more about hell (Gehenna) than anyone else in the bible.
Of course different Christians have different interpretations of how all this works, who goes to hell, how long it lasts, what the nature of it is, what the difference between Sheol and Gehenna is, etc. but it’s clearly right there in the text. The imagery and the concept of a place of punishment is obviously biblical.
I have not watched the video either, but I am familiar with the arguments of those who claim that the popular concept of Hell is not rooted in biblical tradition. I have always been interested in the history and study of religions, so I am aware of the various interpretations and debates concerning certain concepts and words. I presume that the author of the video — and I repeat, I am saying this without having watched it — does not deny that those terms are used in the Bible. Rather, I believe they argue that the modern Christian interpretation, which associates those terms with the concept of Hell as it is understood in modern popular culture, is not necessarily correct. To be honest, I am not even sure I can completely disagree, considering that Jews, for instance, do not believe in Hell and interpret those terms in a completely different way.
Personally, when it comes to the Old Testament, I tend to agree more with the Jews than with the Christians. After all, the Hebrew Bible was written by the Jews, so I believe it makes more sense to follow their perspective when it comes to vocabulary, lexicon, and the exegesis of Hebrew texts. Of course, I am aware that Judaism is not a monolithic tradition, but there are certain points on which all Jews have always agreed. For instance, 99% of Jews have never believed in the existence of fallen angels, with the exception of a few small messianic sects that existed during the Second Temple period. So again, when it comes to the Old Testament, I prefer to follow Jewish interpretations rather than Christian ones, primarily for a matter of consistency.
If you want a brief summary of the video, it’s that there’re multiple different perspectives on the afterlife/divine punishment in both the Hebrew Bible and New Testament – the OG Sheol, which was a gloomy underworld where everyone went to after death, then later on annhilationism, universal salvation, and yes, even eternal conscious torment for sinners. Is the video title a bit clickbaity? Yeah. But eternal conscious torment is not the only view expressed in the Bible, and not a majority opinion until the post-biblical period centuries later.
The backstory I devised for my version of the Clone Wars:
Following the Light and Darkness War, the Galactic Republic was at peace. Aided by the Holy Order of the Jedi Knights, the Republic experienced a period of stability and prosperity which endured nearly a thousand years. But gradually, the Republic declined. As the governance of the Galactic Senate faltered under a stagnant bureaucracy, megacorporations rose in power. More-and-more senators, seduced by power and wealth, allied themselves with corporate interests, and the largest megacorporations had their own representatives placed in the Senate. The Jedi, formerly quasi-anarchist warrior monks who’d served the peoples of the Republic irrespective of the state, became a branch of the Republic Armed Forces, answerable to the Senate and its puppet masters.
In the final century of the so-called Great Peace, cloning was perfected by Spaarti Creations, a biotech company based on the planet Jhantor. Engineered for strength, stamina, and servility, clones were mass-produced as a cheap alternative to paid organics and droids, utilized for a variety of purposes: menial labour, private armies, etc. The response was overwhelming and multifarious. Humanitarian objections were raised against the use of what amounted to slave labour; workers objected to their loss of employment; conspiratorial thinkers dreaded the prospect of individuals being replaced with clone duplicates; droid manufacturing companies balked at the competition. The subsequent conflicts became known collectively as the Clone Wars. In 61 BBY, the Senate capitulated to the widespread anti-clone sentiment by enacting regulations against cloning technology, placing it under state ownership, strictly controlling its application. In response, Jhantor and its subsidiary worlds seceded from the Republic, forming the isolationist Axis of Spaarti.
Dark Empire supposedly ruining the chosen one story and Saga of Darth Vader doesn’t bother me, because neither of those things existed before the prequels.
Since I hate the Chosen One horseshit, that only makes me like DE even more.
For me the easier critique it’s out of character for Luke, he faced his trial in Return of the Jedi and did not go over to the Dark Side. Veitch, on the other hand probably thought well Luke got a taste of the Dark Side in ROTJ why he wouldn’t go over.
I think it’s a misreading of DE that Luke embraces the dark side in the story. Luke is attempting to understand the secrets of the dark side, both to understand why his father turned and as a means of conquering the dark side from within, but he underestimates the sheer oppressive nature of the dark side and comes dangerously close to succumbing to it, but Leia comes in at just the right moment to pull him back from falling into that abyss.
A lot of EU has to do certain things like the Rebellion can’t be victorious on Endor we can’t have a happy ending. We need to have decades of further conflict, Sith and Jedi wars, Vong. A second Galactic Civil war.
Yeah. Part of the reason why I regard the Hand of Thrawn duology as the concluding chapter of the Expanded Universe.
What would a post 1998 EU look like I often wonder if the prequels were wiped from the timeline and Dave’s clone wars never happened.
Bantam solution for everything was Superweapon of the week. What would have happened if Del Rey did not get the book license for everything except the Han Solo trilogy by Daley, The Lando books and the novelizations of SW, TESB and RotJ.
I believe we would’ve still gotten some version of the NJO, though the details would’ve been different.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_Horse_invasion_storyline
And presuming Lucas finally allowed EU writers free reign of the prequel era, we would’ve gotten something like the Clone Wars multimedia project, perhaps with Zahn and Veitch onboard. Perhaps Atha Prime from Kenner’s unrealized “Power of the Force” toyline would’ve been folded into the canon.
EXT. SPACE
TITLE CARD: A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away….
STAR WARS
Episode I
THE RISING FORCE
After the Light and Darkness War, the Galaxy was at peace, ruled by the glorious REPUBLIC and protected by the noble and wise JEDI KNIGHTS. But after a thousand years, corruption has infected the Republic. More and more senators, seduced by power and wealth, have allied themselves with special interests. The Republic is crumbling.
Infuriated at the recent spike of piracy across the Expansion Region, Mid Rim, and Outer Rim Territories, several hundred worlds have signed the Treaty of Concordance with the AXIS OF SPAARTI, an isolationist faction that successfully seceded from the Republic with cloned soldiers.
With massive cloning repositories and several leading shipbuilders and armament manufacturers at their disposal, the Concordance hopes to sweep across the Galaxy with its forces to overthrow and replace the corrupt Republic….
TILT DOWN
To the planet Jhantor, a world blanketed in cloud.
EXT. JHANTOR — CLOUD SEA — DAY
There’s a break in the topmost layer of yellow oxide cloud, revealing Granicus, the capital of Jhantor. The magnificent gleaming city’s perched, mushroom-like, on a tall spire, which disappears deep into the misty surface of the planet. The tranquility of this nebulous idyll’s broken by the wail of ion engines. Fourteen Short-Range Attack Fighters burst from a cumulus range, flying in tight formation, sunlight glinting off their solar panels. Banking steeply, they head toward the capital city.
EXT. GRANICUS — PLAZA OF THE DADERS — DAY
On a large, austere platform stands COS DASHIT, Atha Prime of the Supreme Synod and leader of the Axis of Spaarti. A man with a white mustache hanging over his lip, adorned in a pearlescent cloak and red robes, he possesses four fingers on each hand and milky white eyes, marking him as an Arkanian. Standing at rigid attention on his right are several generals, dressed in the white-&-gray uniform of the realm. Five lower-ranking athas sit off to the side. The glass canyon of the Plaza’s filled with a hundred rows of assembled civilian supporters.
They all gaze skyward as the fourteen SRAFs scream overhead in an impressive barrel-roll maneuver. As the sound of the fightercraft resonates through the Plaza, a light wind blows the great gold-&-black banner of the Axis, creating a subtle flapping sound. The atha’s amplified voice cuts through the quiet, drawing the crowd’s attention back to him.
DASHIT
The Galactic Republic is dead. Ruthless socialists, driven by greed and the lust for power, have replaced enlightenment with oppression, and free trade with “rule by the people”. The Republic is crumbling into barbarism throughout its million worlds. (beat) But from the celestial equator to the farthest reaches of the Great Rift, seventy sectors have united with us in a common war against the tyranny of our foe.
To the rear of the Plaza, watching the spectacle over the shoulder of an enraptured partisan, stands SEIG OXUS, a tall blond man in his twenties. He seems interested in what the atha has to say, but keeps furtively glancing around as if someone were following him.
DASHIT
(cont’d) Upon this war depends the survival of the noble races of the Galaxy. Upon this war depends the life and long continuity of our civilization. Not since the No-Space Conflict has our destiny been placed in such a balance. This is to be the most magnificent campaign of all! You have never been called without doing something to be remembered, something notable and striking. This is the first frontier and foundation stone in the great wall of our new Concordance; I can’t but consider it as an epoch in history.
Dashit’s speech at a close, the crowd cheers. Oxus moves quickly away from the Plaza, passing through several check stations, where he’s forced to show his identification.
INT. NIGHTCLUB
Oxus walks into the transparisteel-&-chromium splendour of one of Granicus’ famous nightclubs. Moving to the long mirrored bar, he sits next to a rough-looking Bothan male in a fur-lined jacket and gold jewellery, BOMOJE ESPAA.
OXUS
Your glass is empty.
Oxus activates a small intercom set in the bar counter.
OXUS
(into intercom) A dantic and…
He looks in Espaa’s glass. The Bothan shakes his head.
OXUS
(cont’d) Just a dantic, then. (beat) Espaa, it’s not like you to refuse a drink. You’re going to give the Trade Federation a bad name.
An aperture opens in the counter in front of Oxus, a drink rising from it. Oxus activates a signal jammer hidden in one of his cuff links.
INT. NIGHTCLUB/BAR OBSERVATION CENTRE
A cyborg controller sits in front of a row of monitors, observing the nightclub patrons, eavesdropping on their conversations. As the cameras/microphones go dead, the controller manipulates a few controls on their console to no avail.
INT. NIGHTCLUB
Espaa leans in close to Oxus.
ESPAA
Seig, we’ve got problems. They’ve just grounded all spacecraft, including Federation freighters. Even the ships under Axis registry can’t move. Something big is up.
OXUS
Isn’t anything moving?
ESPAA
Military ships, but—
OXUS
I’m afraid they’re already moving against the Republic. I’ve got to get word back.
They’re interrupted by the arrival of several policemen. Each of the policemen’s an identical clone, distinguished only by rank insignia. Giving Espaa a desperate look, Oxus tensely but coolly leaves the bar for a route of escape as the clones rush to block the exits and check the clientele for ID. Espaa takes Oxus’ abandoned drink, gripping the glass tightly.
EXT. SPACE — ALDERAAN
Throneworld of an old, wealthy frontier kingdom, Alderaan’s a gorgeous green-&-turquoise terrestrial planet. This beauty’s offset by the massive ring-shaped battle station encircling the planet.
EXT. ALDERAAN — ALDERA — DAY
Situated upon a large island on a lake, bordered by snow-capped mountains, is picturesque Aldera, Alderaan’s capital city. Pristine white Art Deco domes and spires rise from the ground, co-existing in perfect balance with the surrounding natural terrain.
EXT. ALDERA ROYAL PALACE/PALACE GARDENS — DAY
In a large courtyard we find BEN LARS. A lean nineteen-year-old with fair skin and blue eyes, dark brown hair cropped short save for a single long braid worn behind his right ear, he’s dressed in a militaristic double-breasted black jumpsuit and jackboots — the customary uniform of a Jedi apprentice. He stands, hands held behind him, surrounded by intricately arranged flower-&-fern beds, though his thoughts aren’t on the lovely flora.
Someone enters the gardens. Approaching Ben from behind, he stops, keeping a respective distance between them. Ben turns to face the newcomer. He’s a tall, powerfully built man, fifty-two years old, with a trimmed, graying beard and long hair worn back in a half-ponytail. He’s dressed similarly to Ben, though in addition he wears a long black robe/tabard over his jumpsuit. This’ the Jedi master QUI-GON JINN, Ben’s instructor.
BEN
I was beginning to think you weren’t coming (bowing) master.
Reaching to his belt, Qui-Gon unclips his lightsaber.
QUI-GON
Let’s begin.
Bringing the metal hilt to bear, he manipulates the activation plate set above the handgrip. With a snap-hiss, a laser beam shoots out, freezing to form a pulsating blue-white blade 0.91 metres in length. Taking his own lightsaber from his belt, Ben engages a blade identical in hue and length. Saluting, the two Jedi enter battle stance.
They circle, sizing each other up. Qui-Gon strikes, bringing his blade down on Ben. Ben parries the blow then ripostes; Qui-Gon dodges the counterattack. They circle again. This time Ben strikes. Pressing the attack, he drives Qui-Gon back, but fails to penetrate his defenses. Overextending himself, Ben leaves his left forearm vulnerable. Qui-Gon lands a hit.
BEN
OW!
Dialled down to its lowest setting, the lightsaber has no cutting power; it merely smarts. Ben leaps back, shaking his stinging arm.
QUI-GON
I should never have landed that blow.
The worst of the pain gone, Ben grips his lightsaber with both hands again.
QUI-GON
(cont’d) I sense an unusual amount of unease here for something as trivial as routine negotiations.
BEN
It’s not about the negotiations, Qui-Gon. It’s something … elsewhere … elusive.
QUI-GON
Don’t centre on your anxiety, Ben. Keep your concentration here where it belongs.
BEN
Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future.
Before that final word has time to linger in the air, Qui-Gon viciously attacks Ben. The apprentice barely manages to block the flurry of brutal strikes. Locking his lightsaber around Ben’s, Qui-Gon wrenches the hilt from the boy’s grasp, then kicks Ben in the chest, sending him sprawling.
QUI-GON
But not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the living Force, my young apprentice.
Deactivating his lightsaber and replacing it on his belt, he offers a hand to Ben. Sitting up, Ben’s visibly angry. Biting his tongue, he takes Qui-Gon’s hand.
INT. ALDERA ROYAL PALACE/HALLWAY OUTSIDE HIGH COUNCIL CHAMBERS — DAY
Two young girls, seven-year-old CELLY and five-year-old TIA, run yelling through the long palace corridors, their little footsteps echoing throughout.
INT. ALDERA ROYAL PALACE/HIGH COUNCIL CHAMBERS — DAY
The high council chambers’ a dim, cool space projecting an aura of time-worn comfort and security. In the distance, the children can be heard shouting. KING KAYOS, silver-haired with a tanned, leathery face, motions for one of his aides to shut the partially closed doors. He’s in the middle of negotiations between Qui-Gon, who serves as ambassador for the Galactic Republic, and the delegates of the Great Houses of the Naboo. The twenty-three Humans sit in overstuffed chairs encircling a large ring-shaped table. A large, sallow-eyed delegate, AAY ZAVOS, speaks.
ZAVOS
(cont’d) Milord, House Kroam is with you, but you must understand, these terms are simply unacceptable. Republic trade restrictions are very unfavourable, and we, of course, favour our independence….
Ben, standing to Qui-Gon’s right, sneaks a glance at an archaic analog wall chronometre. He’s clearly bored by the dry proceedings.
INT. ALDERA ROYAL PALACE/HALLWAY OUTSIDE HIGH COUNCIL CHAMBERS — DAY
The day’s negotiations at a close, the delegates file out. Celly and Tia, the king’s two young daughters, storm through the exiting delegates, rushing onto Kayos’ lap. The king’s obviously very adoring of the two young princesses. He tosses Celly into the air, catching her.
TIA
Me too! Me too!
CELLY
Bail’s leaving! Bail’s leaving and you’ve got to say goodbye!
The king picks up Tia, spins her 'round, then puts her down.
KAYOS
Okay, dearheart. Go tell your mother and your brother that I’m on my way.
The two girls run out of the chambers and are heard screaming down the hallway. The king starts out, then stops, turning to the two Jedi.
KAYOS
Qui-Gon, my son is leaving for the academy at Chathos. Won’t you come and wish him well? It would mean a lot to him. He truly idolizes you, you know.
QUI-GON
Of course, milord.
BEN
(to Qui-Gon) If you won’t be needing me….
Qui-Gon acquiesces with a nod. Ben stays behind as his master and the king head for the doors.
EXT. ALDERA ROYAL PALACE/COURTYARD — DAY
A large, chrome-plated, four-seat landspeeder sits gleaming in the sun-soaked courtyard. PRINCE BAIL PRESTOR ORGANA, fourteen years old, possessing dark eyes and dusky complexion, is embracing his mother, QUEEN MAZICIA, a warm, silver-haired, but amazingly youthful matron. Celly and Tia jump around inside the speeder, hindering the efforts of a servant to pack several cases.
Bail greets the king as he approaches with the Jedi.
BAIL
I’ll miss you, father.
KAYOS
The semester will be over before you know it. You’ll have a grand time. There are so many new things to learn. I wish I was going.
Kayos gives Bail a fatherly smile and squeeze on the shoulder. Qui-Gon stands rather formally to one side. The prince moves to the Jedi master, bowing before him.
QUI-GON
May your studies do you honour.
Bail can only manage an awkward smile before returning to his parents at the speeder.
MAZICIA
Hurry, Bail. You must make it to Yuell before nightfall.
His two sisters scramble out of the speeder as the servant helps Bail into the back seat. The servant climbs into the seat beside him, and the speeder starts up with a low whine. The prince waves to his family as the driver slowly guides the speeder out of the courtyard.
EXT. ALDERA ROYAL PALACE/BALCONY — SUNSET
Seated atop the stone railing, Ben watches the sun set over the distant mountains.
BEN
(sarcastic) The negotiations were short.
Almost as if materializing from thin air, Qui-Gon joins Ben on the balcony.
QUI-GON
The Alderaan system maintained a policy of isolation for nearly four-thousand years; their government was an absolute monarchy for nearly as long. (crossing arms) The road to democracy’s a long one, but the Naboo will find their place within the Republic.
Turning, Qui-Gon leaves. Ben’s gaze remains on the setting sun, lost in thought.
So I’m actually doing it. I’m actually sharing my Star Wars prequel rewrite. I’ve debated with myself about doing this. I’ve taken lots of inspiration from other folks’ rewrites, ones posted here and elsewhere; I didn’t think I had a take significantly unique to share. But I figured I’d do it anyway, damn the torpedoes.
This rewrite won’t be in the form of a trilogy. I feel there’s too much story to comfortably fit inside three episodes. George Lucas briefly toyed with the idea of a 12-episode saga, with five episodes covering the prequel era:
So my rewrite’s gonna take the form of a pentalogy. Episode I will be the prelude, loosely based on TPM & the rough/first drafts of ANH, with Ben Lars (Obi-Wan Kenobi) as the main character; Episode II-IV will be the Tragedy of Darth Vader; Episode V will be the interlude bridging the Tragedy of Darth Vader and the Adventures of Luke Skywalker, set during the Great Jedi Purge.
There are four objectives I plan on keeping to:
The first time someone refers to Luke as “Skywalker” is himself when telling Leia who he is.
It wouldn’t be smart for the Lars to give him his father’s last name while in hiding. So his name on Tatooine was Luke Lars.
Him announcing himself as Luke Skywalker is him reclaiming his father’s last name after finding out the truth about him (“I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my father.”)
He started calling himself Luke Skywalker in his own mind after Ben told him his father was a Jedi Knight. Him introducing himself to Leia is the first time he verbalizes this.I like this one
It is pretty good.
I want to See Rich Evans in Darth Maul makeup jerking off a double-bladed toy lightsaber from 1999 which he removes from its original packaging.
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Red Sun Through a Purple Haze
We Don’t Need Another Hero (Variant 0)
We Don’t Need Another Hero (Variant 1)
