Superweapon VII

fmalover said:

BedeHistory731 said:

I’m still here wishing that we’d gotten the complete misunderstanding that was Jodorowsky’s Dune. As insulting an adaptation as it would have been, it still would’ve made for a fascinatingly strange experience.

It would have most certainly been a beautiful mess of a movie, but I disagree with Jodorowsky’s plan to make it 14 hours long.

I often wonder about this “14 hours” bit. From the documentary, I got the sense that Jodorowsky was making a statement of artistic freedom, saying hypothetically that if it was his desire to make his film 14 hours long, he should have the right to make it 14 hours long, even if it wasn’t his actual intent for it to be that long. But then Frank Herbert himself supposedly received a copy of Jodorowsky’s screenplay, and it was as thick as a phone book, so I dunno what to believe.

WW2 and WW1 leaders singing witch doctor

I momentarily read “Throg” as “Thorg”, which brought this to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdOmiUqmRfY

George Lucas c. 1978: merges Anakin & Vader to avoid redundancy.

George Lucas c. 1995: splits Qui-Gon off from Obi-Wan, creating redundancy.

I wish Lucas had released his IPs into the public domain and made an effort to convert Lucasfilm into a worker co-op.

Master Lawdog said:

I’ve already dropped the soap.

Hal 9000 said:

(Superweapon VII gets 1 post credit for time served.)

I’ve but one response.

I’m a big fan of Mike Vilardi’s illustrations for WEG.

In hindsight, I believe it was the wrong choice to make Ben’s and Anakin’s lightsabers the same colour. If I was capable of making fanedits, I’d make Luke’s lightsaber in SW & TESB yellow.

Emre1601 said:

It did irk me when director Deborah Chow said this about Ewan - “He to me, is Obi Wan”, in the “Obi Wan Kenobi: a Jedi’s Return” documentary, with an emphasis on “is”.

It’s alright. Alec Guinness is Ben Kenobi, anyway. Even the OT end credits agree.

(INB4 “Ackchyually, it’s ‘Ben (Obi-Wan) Kenobi’ in the end credits”)

Spartacus01 said:

Tantive3+1 said:

Should Yoda be a present character within the prequels?

I feel that removing him from the PT preserves the revelation in TESB of who Yoda really is.

But removing him entirely would contradict ESB itself, since Yoda clearly states that Anakin was a powerful Jedi. How could he even knew that if he wasn’t part of the Prequels and never knew Anakin?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3jI3RrMsVI&t=133s

Yoda’s a powerful clairvoyant, his connection to Ben presumably amplifying/focusing his abilities. Unless you wanna assume that Yoda physically visited Tatooine to spy on Luke.

So many will argue for why Yoda with a lightsaber is based really, but fail to notice this. I can’t even.

Master Lawdog said:

A real torture in prison would be having to listen to Jedi Rocks on a loop.

I imagine this is actually the case in the SW Universe. And much like James Hetfield, Max Rebo gives his approval.

Spartacus01 said:

Luke is the Gran Master of the New Jedi Order

I was able to watch Jurassic Park III all the way through in one sitting. That’s more than anything I’ve ever been able to say for Lost World.

I briefly considered checking out the High Republic comics, but at the end of the day said “fuck it.” I have absolute zero interest in 99% of anything the Disneyverse has to offer, and that goes quadruple for stories involving Jedi.

Yeah, “sterile” sums up Villeneuve’s style quite well. “Dreary” works also.

I never understood all the praise Arrival got. I’m guessing 99% of the people who got their rocks off to the film were floored by the plot twist. Well, I went into the movie knowing the twist beforehand and got nothing out of the experience expect cold colour grading and a protagonist with all the charm and personality of a dead salmon sitting in a cooler (and I normally love Amy Adams).

His style was a perfect fit for Blade Runner 2049, though.

I remember when I saw that trailer, I was all “Hmph. Why would anyone care about owning those stodgy old versions?”

A is A, my ass.

Channel72 said:

The dialogue in some of the Yoda scenes on Dagobah is just really next level. There’s probably no higher quality dialogue in all Star Wars. I mean like 90% of Star Wars dialogue is either just serviceable or corny, relying mostly on the performances to elevate it. But then Yoda drops lines like:

Ready, are you? What know you of ready? For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi. My own counsel will I keep on who is to be trained! Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. … This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away… to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! A Jedi craves not these things. You are reckless!

That dialogue quality is not just among the best in Star Wars, but it can really compete with the best of Hollywood in general. Obviously, we all know George Lucas didn’t write this.

Wish this forum allowed upvotes.

Channel72 said:

Superweapon VII said:

of_Kaiburr_and_Whills said:

The EU leaning too far into pure science fiction is one of my biggest criticisms with it. It’s interesting because the issue usually doesn’t come up in conversations.

As someone who’s come to prefer hard(er) sci-fi to soft sci-fi, the physics of space travel/battle in SW began to rankle me. Then I came upon this thread, which allowed me to view the series from a whole different perspective.

I have the same preference, but arrived at the opposite conclusion. I would prefer if the sci-fi aspect of Star Wars was emphasized a bit more. I don’t want it to be hard sci-fi, of course, but just maybe like 20% more sci-fi. I think the original Star Wars (Episode IV) was like 15-20% more sci-fi than ESB and ROTJ. And I think Zahn’s original Thrawn Trilogy is probably like 15% more sci-fi than Episode IV - which I appreciated.

I can accept that certain physics-violating elements of Star Wars space combat are likely too cemented into our aesthetic expectations about what Star Wars should be at this point, so I don’t expect to see an X-wing rotating about its vertical axis to blow up a TIE fighter approaching from behind any time soon - although that would be cool if it happened.

The biggest elephant in the room for me is the presence of AI. If the peoples of the SW Universe can build thinking machines, then battle droids and droid starfighters should be the norm, not an outlier. If they’re concerned about a possible Skynet situation, then remote-controlled drones are a reasonable alternative. There’s no reason the Republic/Empire should default to clone/stormtroopers, and absolutely no reason they or the Rebels should use organic pilots. And just saying droids are inferior to organics doesn’t cut it, not when we’ve seen they’re capable enough in a warzone to get the job done.

As sci-fi, this bothers me. As fantasy, it doesn’t.

But I think that “Star Wars is Surrealism” essay is very misguided. Maybe one day I’ll have the time to write up a proper response to it.

I’d like to see that.

I definitely think the actual fantasy elements of Star Wars should be kept strictly fantasy/supernatural. So stuff like midichlorians, or really any exploration of “how the Force works” beyond the vague mysticism conveyed by Yoda in ESB, is a really bad move. I also dislike the idea of any technology or physical mechanism that somehow affects, counteracts or manipulates the Force (e.g. ysalamiri, Jedi clones, etc.), because it implies the Force can be controlled and manipulated using predictable physical laws.

I think the ysalamari would’ve been more palatable if Zahn had described their powers differently, less “negate the Force”, more “negate Force-users’ ability to feel the Force”.

I’m with you vis-à-vis Force-sensitive clones. Perhaps if Zahn had established that Force-sensitive clones are extensions of their genetic templates, sharing memories, linked telepathically, etc., a mystical angle could’ve been retained, but Zahn didn’t do this, and none of the authors following him did either (as far as I know).

Count me in, too.

The original cut of SW presented Tatooine as this dull, even bleak place to be; there aren’t even any vistas to bring some natural beauty to the planet. Lucas seems to have forgotten this when working on the SE/PT or figured empty spectacle now trumped thematic synergy. Likely both.

darklordoftech said:

Superweapon VII said:

Juno Eclipse said:

Many fans only separate the novels and comic books into “Canon and Legends” from the old EU when Disney announced their thing in 2014. For me, my own head canon, there is also separation of the Jedi before/after 1999. The retcons of them after 1999 of no longer having family attachments, the interpretations of ‘compassion’, ‘love’, ‘fear’ (not a problem for Yoda in Empire), possessions, being separated from their parents, even uniforms (as Emre posted above). As well as the general disconnects between the two trilogies that George chose to introduce, all means it is a major obstacle to cohere the two.

The interregnum between TPM & AOTC was an interesting period for the EU, at least where the Jedi are concerned. In spite of the “no attachments” rule established in TPM, EU writers still assumed Jedi could be in romantic relationships, the most explicit example being Ki-Adi-Mundi, who has shown having multiple wives and children. In hindsight, you can see the tension between the pre-1999 & post-1999 lore. It was Schrödinger’s Star Wars.

The “no attachments” rule wasn’t introduced until AOTC. The only Jedi rules TPM established are that 9 is too old to join and that you can’t have multiple Padawans at once.

You may be right. It’s been half a decade since my last and final prequel rewatch, so my memory’s not fresh. I do remember the Jedi Council making a rather callous fuss over Anakin’s feelings for his mother, though.

I’m still waiting for the “Garfield Minus Garfield” fanedit.

Juno Eclipse said:

Many fans only separate the novels and comic books into “Canon and Legends” from the old EU when Disney announced their thing in 2014. For me, my own head canon, there is also separation of the Jedi before/after 1999. The retcons of them after 1999 of no longer having family attachments, the interpretations of ‘compassion’, ‘love’, ‘fear’ (not a problem for Yoda in Empire), possessions, being separated from their parents, even uniforms (as Emre posted above). As well as the general disconnects between the two trilogies that George chose to introduce, all means it is a major obstacle to cohere the two.

The interregnum between TPM & AOTC was an interesting period for the EU, at least where the Jedi are concerned. In spite of the “no attachments” rule established in TPM, EU writers still assumed Jedi could be in romantic relationships, the most explicit example being Ki-Adi-Mundi, who has shown having multiple wives and children. In hindsight, you can see the tension between the pre-1999 & post-1999 lore. It was Schrödinger’s Star Wars.

I’m sure Rey’ll end up doing everything Luke should’ve done, but better.

Seriously, fuck this character and fuck this movie.