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StarkillerAG

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20-Jun-2018
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6-Aug-2020
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Post
#1365251
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (WIP)
Time

JakeRyan17 said:

I dunno, I disagree. They talk about the Intel from Hux as confirming the broadcast, not the first they’re hearing of it. I also don’t feel it’s redundant because everyone already knows the information, if anything the second broadcast is the redundant one. But ¯_(ツ)_/¯ of y’all don’t wanna use it, don’t use it. The first act of The Rise of Skywalker was designed with that broadcast having already taken place. I was just trying to suggest a place where it would make sense, rather than having major plot points that motivate the opening actions of the characters take place off-screen.

But the first act wasn’t designed with that plot point in mind, all evidence points to it being a last minute decision. When Hux’s message says that Palpatine has returned, everyone looks shocked, Rose asks “Wait, do we believe this?” and Ackbar Jr. responds “It cannot be, the Emperor is dead!” Their reaction clearly contradicts the opening crawl by implying that it’s the first time they heard of this, so removing the mention of the message in the crawl, like Hal did, actually improves continuity.

Post
#1365228
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (WIP)
Time

JakeRyan17 said:

They don’t really comment on anything about the hopelessness of Luke being gone and the joy of being alive.

Umm, yeah they do. That was literally the entire point of the scene of the Falcon.

They also don’t comment on Snoke being dead, or Kylo being alive, or several other major plot points.

That’s because that sort of stuff is nowhere near the same level as Emperor Palpatine himself returning from the grave. That stuff is just unexpected, Palpatine’s return would seem downright impossible to them.

Like, they did not stop the First Order at all, or even give them a setback. There isn’t need to comment on it until they can regroup and start investigating it.

But you’d think they would be much more shocked about it than they are in the original cut, where they’re just shocked over no one responding to their message. The complete lack of even one line saying something like “What? That’s impossible!” is just weird.

Not having the message at all feels… convenient. It’s just as unbelievable in the theatrical releases, but now as an audience we don’t have the evidence of his return that our heroes have (even if we do see Palpatine with Kylo). It’s such a strange plot point, to have a galaxy-wide message that forces the entire galaxy back into fearful submission, and on top of that not even include it into the films. As odd as it may be that people wait a bit to talk about the message onscreen, it’s more odd to not have the message at all.

It wasn’t the message that forced the galaxy back into submission, it was just the First Order ruling with an iron fist. Palpatine’s message didn’t occur until one year into the First Order’s reign, by which time they had already established control over the galaxy.

Also, the doubt expressed at the beginning of Rise of Skywalker helps support the lack of them immediately talking about the message at the end of Last Jedi.

That just exacerbates a problem that was already present in the original cut: When they get Hux’s message, they act shocked, as if they had no clue Palpatine had returned. It explicitly contradicts the opening crawl talking about Palpatine sending a message to the entire galaxy. Since the message was such an obviously contrived plot point inserted last-minute, I think Hal was right to remove it completely.

Post
#1365216
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (WIP)
Time

JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

jarbear said:

<Insert Kylo your still holding on Meme.>

Here you go:

Seriously though, I agree with you. I just don’t see the purpose of Palpatine’s message. It isn’t necessary at all, and it doesn’t improve the movie in any way.

I really liked putting in into the ending of Last Jedi, when they’re searching for transmissions from allies. That helps make Leia’s “The Spark is out” line more crestfallen, and Luke’s appearance/apparition more heroic.

I saw that change you made, but I don’t think it works. It’s just weird that no one is surprised by it, and no one comments on it for the rest of the movie. I think the message would be best left out.

That’s fair, though they all look horriefied and Leia says “the spark [of hope] is out.” Then Luke shows up and they have a lot of other things to worry about through the end of the film. Then the next movie starts with Poe and Finn investigating.

But it’s just weird that no one comments on the complete impossibility of the situation, like “What, how is Palpatine alive?” And then they seem strangely happy at the end of the movie, given that the main villain was just revealed to be alive. I really don’t think the message would work, especially not in TLJ.

Post
#1365213
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (WIP)
Time

JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

jarbear said:

<Insert Kylo your still holding on Meme.>

Here you go:

Seriously though, I agree with you. I just don’t see the purpose of Palpatine’s message. It isn’t necessary at all, and it doesn’t improve the movie in any way.

I really liked putting in into the ending of Last Jedi, when they’re searching for transmissions from allies. That helps make Leia’s “The Spark is out” line more crestfallen, and Luke’s appearance/apparition more heroic.

I saw that change you made, but I don’t think it works. It’s just weird that no one is surprised by it, and no one comments on it for the rest of the movie. I think the message would be best left out.

Post
#1365195
Topic
What are the themes of the Star Wars movies?
Time

Trying to give an honest, unbiased answer to the question, not influenced by my opinions on the movies:

ANH: Anyone can be a hero.
ESB: One must learn how to deal with failure.
ROTJ: Everyone has good inside them.
TPM: Coincidences can result in enormous change.
AOTC: Evil can sometimes hide in plain sight.
ROTS: Too much attachment results in greed.
TFA: Evil will always return, but so will good.
TLJ: The old ways are flawed, but they still have value.
TROS: Friendship can be a powerful ally.

Post
#1365089
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

I’m cutting the Ach-To sequence completely. After healing Kylo, Rey goes with Finn and Poe back to the Resistance base. Finn and Rey’s conversation would be inserted on the way back, to show that Rey is traveling with them. When DO is decrypted by the Resistance, he gives them the location of Exegol, achieved by cutting Poe’s line “Except how to get there”. The next time we see Rey, she’s approaching Exegol in an X-wing. Since the fighter has no visible damage at all for some reason, the only logical assumption is that she piloted a spare X-Wing from the days of the Rebellion. The flashback of Leia training with Luke would be inserted earlier in the movie, setting up the appearance of Leia’s saber.

Post
#1365085
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

JakeRyan17 said:

Well, his crashed ship is still functional,

Not if you cut that scene in TROS, which I’m actually planning to do. It makes Luke’s display of Force awesomeness on Crait just look stupid.

and his conflicted feelings about it just emphasise that he let Han die. Because if he regretted or was even conflicted about his decision, he wouldn’t have cut himself off from the Force so completely. Toning down Luke’s “giving up completely” only makes him more of a villain.

But like I said, his only option of escape was cut off (at least in this version), so it’s not like he could do anything about it. It would just create the impression that he didn’t feel it was necessary to open himself to the Force, because he had no idea how much death and destruction the First Order were causing.

Post
#1365082
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Well, you like the saber toss, but I don’t, so our editing motivations are clearly at odds here. But I think it makes sense for Luke to be conflicted. He’s never been one to just give up hope. I’m trying to convey a sense that Luke began to regret his decision after the years went by, but he had already crashed his only means of escape into the ocean. When Rey comes bearing his old saber, Luke realizes that he finally has a chance to return and redeem himself, but he’s still not convinced whether that’s a good idea.

Post
#1365080
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Glad you finally found some relevance in this pointless conversation. I agree that removing some humor would make the movie flow better. But I’m still not sure if Luke giving the saber back to Rey can be pulled off seamlessly. In every clip that I’ve seen, the footage is obviously reversed.

One option I’ve seen that might have promise is Luke just keeping the saber, and walking off with it. I think it could be pulled off through some simple cutting, and it would show that Luke is conflicted over whether he should return, rather than flat-out refusing to help.

Post
#1365061
Topic
The Unpopular Film, TV, Music, Art, Books, Comics, Games, &amp; Technology Opinion Thread (for all you contrarians!)
Time

fmalover said:

OK, just let me be clear. There’s a difference between having no issues with something and thinking it’s wonderful, they’re not one and the same.

IDK, ever since I first saw TPM I was never bothered by Jar Jar Binks, and whenever I rewatch the movie he still doesn’t bother me. I get how he gets under people’s skin, but what truly puzzles me is the white hot outrage around the character.

I hope I’ve made myself clear this time around.

Okay, got it. I understand completely. He may not be great, but he’s certainly not the worst part of the prequels.

Post
#1365060
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

JakeRyan17 said:

Dude, you’re the one that will not stop. Please stop. If you don’t have an idea or a solution to what sparked people talking about The Last Jedi, you don’t need to reply.

I said we should move on. What more do you want?

As for the deleted scene thing, I don’t think it’s feasible to restore. The effects are so unfinished that it would take a professional VFX artist to restore. A shame too, since it’s such a great scene.

Post
#1365040
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

Movies Remastered said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

I would argue that was by design. In life, things don’t happen in such a perfect order. I think he was trying to make the characters more fleshed out, especially as they had so little depth or development in The Force Awakens.

Well, movies aren’t real life. It’s like complaining about how nobody sneezes in Jurassic Park, or how nobody goes to the bathroom in Avengers. That sort of awkward stuff is typically removed in movies to increase tension. As a third-person observer, stupid jokes and awkward humor can kill tension flat.

The Diplodocus sneezes in Jurassic Park and iron man pees in his suit 😉

Goddammit MR, you ruined my point! 😉

Although technically, those were just one off gag sequences, and didn’t interfere with the tension of the movie. I was just contrasting that to TLJ’s nonstop use of bathos.

Others disagree with you, can we move on now?

Others disagree with you too, so yes, we should move on.

Post
#1365038
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

Movies Remastered said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

I would argue that was by design. In life, things don’t happen in such a perfect order. I think he was trying to make the characters more fleshed out, especially as they had so little depth or development in The Force Awakens.

Well, movies aren’t real life. It’s like complaining about how nobody sneezes in Jurassic Park, or how nobody goes to the bathroom in Avengers. That sort of awkward stuff is typically removed in movies to increase tension. As a third-person observer, stupid jokes and awkward humor can kill tension flat.

The Diplodocus sneezes in Jurassic Park and iron man pees in his suit 😉

Goddammit MR, you ruined my point! 😉

Although technically, those were just one off gag sequences, and didn’t interfere with the tension of the movie. I was just contrasting that to TLJ’s nonstop use of bathos.

Post
#1364979
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

JakeRyan17 said:

Note that this conversation started with someone saying “I know people hate Last Jedi, but…” and asking about a deleted scene.

Replies started with how TLJ-friendly the site is and now it’s just people trashing it even after people have tried to get back on topic. Can we get back on topic now?

Yeah, this conversation got way out of hand. Let’s just agree to disagree.

Post
#1364975
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

JakeRyan17 said:

Do films have to mimic life? No. Do some filmmakers choose to have that happen? Yes.

Yes, but most of the time movies that mimic real life are comedies. A supposedly “serious” movie doing that kind of stuff is just weird and awkward.

And can we not say characters were flat in Last Jedi when there was no character development present at all in Force Awakens? C’mon now…

That’s why there needed to be more development in The Last Jedi. The characters were flat in that movie because they were also flat in The Force Awakens, and Rian had no clue how to expand their stories in a satisfying way.

Post
#1364968
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

JakeRyan17 said:

I would argue that was by design. In life, things don’t happen in such a perfect order. I think he was trying to make the characters more fleshed out, especially as they had so little depth or development in The Force Awakens.

Well, movies aren’t real life. It’s like complaining about how nobody sneezes in Jurassic Park, or how nobody goes to the bathroom in Avengers. That sort of awkward stuff is typically removed in movies to increase tension. As a third-person observer, stupid jokes and awkward humor can kill tension flat.

Post
#1364967
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

JakeRyan17 said:

He went with the choices that deepened character arcs rather than Wookiepedia pages.

Who’s to say that alternate choices wouldn’t have deepened character arcs? If anything, Rian’s overly simplistic choices made the characters seem much more flat than they could have been. Most of TLJ’s character development is just “they did it in the first movie, they do it in this movie”. Rey tries to find an identity for herself, Finn joins the Resistance, and Kylo tries to avoid being good. There’s no new dimensions added to any of the characters, when alternate choices could have made character development much richer.

I agree with Ed that this is the wrong place for this discussion though.

Post
#1364963
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

thebluefrog said:

That was the basic problem with TLJ’s writing. The bathos. Every serious moment had to have a silly manchild moment to break the tension. Lucas had a bad habit of this too, but not nearly as much.

Talk about it. It seems like Rian ignored the first rule of works that mix drama and comedy: The amount of comedy decreases with the amount of drama that’s going on. The OT followed that rule to great effect, only cracking jokes when there’s not much dramatic stuff going on. In TLJ, comedy is just randomly inserted into dramatic scenes, and it kills the tension as a result.

Post
#1364957
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

JakeRyan17 said:

If JJ had only written his intention into the script so that things were set up, instead of only setting up exactly what Johnson did.

Well, he intentionally set it up so that Rian could go any way. But unfortunately, it seems like Rian has a serious lack of imagination when he’s working on a sequel to someone else’s work.

Why is Luke in exile? Because he just wanted to run away.
Where did Snoke come from? I don’t know, let’s just kill him instead.
Why is Rey so powerful? Doesn’t matter, and you’re stupid for asking.

It feels like Rian just went with the least creative option every time, and the story suffers as a result.

Post
#1364947
Topic
Unusual <strong>Sequel Trilogy</strong> Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

NeverarGreat said:

StarkillerAG said:

Movies Remastered said:

Was Grump Luke JJs idea? It seems to have come from Johnson.

Well, JJ kind of came up with the original idea. When talking about why Luke went away, Han says this line:

“He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice, turned against him and destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible. He just walked away from everything.”

So the seeds were already planted in TFA, although Rian took that idea way beyond what JJ intended.

Actually, I think Rian didn’t take it far enough. Luke in TLJ puts a whole lot of emphasis on how he failed Kylo and almost glosses over the destruction of his school and students. That would have been reason enough for Luke to have ‘walked away from everything’, but Rian was too focused on his Rashomon angle to pick the low hanging fruit.

Yeah, the Rashomon thing was dumb too. I’m still not sure if “It was instinct, I didn’t mean it” is a good enough justification for Luke trying to kill his nephew.