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StarThoughts

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21-Jan-2013
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14-Mar-2024
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Post
#634442
Topic
Conan The Barbarian 1982 US Theatrical Edition & BONUS! *RELEASED*
Time

I think you're doing a fantastic job! The film had always had a distinctive appearance and you're nailing it. The Blu-ray is sharp but there are moments when the colors really detract from the tone that the original had; the Tower of Set is a perfect example.

Between the corrected picture (and this is correct), the audio options and the artwork, this looks… dare I say… perfect?

Post
#634435
Topic
Upscaling Robocop Criterion (Released)
Time

The Criterion transfer was state-of-the-art for its time. It was one of the most natural-looking pictures that had ever been attempted for the format; on a 32" television (which was the contemporary “big screen”), it looked like nothing you'd ever seen before. The image always felt more textured to me than the Blu-ray; the Blu-ray doesn't look like a movie that was made in 1987.

I would mention that the Orion laserdisc had a different mix, a pumped-up audio track that was often used as a demo disc for the format. The Criterion audio is more accurate to the original theatrical mix, but if Criterion is not issuing this disc and a restoration were attempted, it might be an interesting alternate audio option. I have no idea what the state of those discs might be (I never heard they were particularly prone to rot).

Post
#633693
Topic
Idea & Info: Amadeus - Original 1984 Theatrical Restoration
Time

The more concise original cut is my preference as well. The Director's Cut, while adding a few interesting subplots, tends to be more ponderous, while the theatrical cut moved at a brisk pace despite its length.

The Pioneer Special Edition laserdisc release of the theatrical cut is my go-to version of the film; it's a great box set as well, with a beautiful full-color book The Mozart Firmament and a 2 CD copy of the soundtrack album that's the best rendition I've heard.

If I have children one day, I would be able to show them the PG-rated original cut long before I'd want them to see the R-rated director's cut.

Post
#633605
Topic
Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released)
Time

Before widescreen really took off, you can see in some of the old video transfers of these films that the starfield would shift right before the “Starring: Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford, Carrie Fischer” credit as that was the first one to take up the entire width of the screen. The anamorphic image was squeezed into the television frame to get all of the credits onto the TV screen.

Post
#632603
Topic
Idea & Info: Cinerama 70mm '2001' preservation. Is it possible?
Time

So you're talking about restoring the color-timing to that of the original roadshow presentations, not restoring the longer version that Kubrick cut down just prior to release? My understanding is all of that footage was destroyed.

 

I remember the MGM remaster with the AC-3 track… is that the same mix that was on the DVD and Blu-ray?

Post
#632409
Topic
Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released)
Time

Just because the changes don't always effect the overall story doesn't mean they don't effect the film. The Special Edition version of Star Wars grinds to a halt once the characters reach Mos Eisley — too many unnecessary additions and an additional, redundant scene — which unwinds somewhat what was formerly one of the tightest sections of a very tightly structured film. Vader getting his shuttle at the end of Empire totally disturbs the pace of the otherwise white-knuckle “Hyperspace” sequence and don't get me started on “Jedi Rocks.”

Replacing the sequences in the last battle in Star Wars always struck me as being somewhat disrespectful to the people who developed new methods of achieving those original, ground-breaking special effects and then spent their entire days and often nights realizing them.

My father said that leaving the theater from seeing Star Wars in 1977 and driving home, he felt that he shouldn't be driving, but swooping and diving. That's the effect the original effects had on the original audience, and that's why the original versions of the films ought to be preserved.

Post
#632380
Topic
Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released)
Time

Indeed, part of the issue here is that while the original effects have dated, when the films originally came out — Star Wars in particular — nobody had ever seen anything like them before. Some of the changes have bigger effects than others, but it is undeniable that the original effects work is what is historically significant.

For twenty years, the original effects work inspired filmmakers and audiences.

Post
#632243
Topic
Conan The Barbarian 1982 US Theatrical Edition & BONUS! *RELEASED*
Time

The original recording has a magic to it that will never be recaptured. The Prometheus is very different by design, which is part of why I like it so much. If the attempt was to re-create the original performance, it would have fallen quite flat. Although Raine and the CPPO have done some stunning re-creations (Jarre's Lawrence of Arabia, Goldsmith's Hour of the Gun, Rózsa's El Cid, to name a few), Poledouris had a unique touch, and this score was his magnum opus.

I've recently taken a closer look at the Blu-ray and have to say that the film looks very odd. When I pull out my laserdisc and compare the two, the laser has a more natural appearance. I don't know how much of that is because that's the version of the film I'm used to and how much is the original theatrical color-timing, but I seem to recall the special edition DVD looking a lot more like the laser (color-wise, anyway) than the Blu-ray does.

Please forgive me for asking so much about the details of this release, it's just that it's not an exaggeration to say that it is a dream come true to have a good copy of the American theatrical version of Conan with score-oriented audio options. This was one of my favorite films and scores growing up, and this disc represents EXACTLY what I would have wanted.

Post
#632203
Topic
Conan The Barbarian 1982 US Theatrical Edition & BONUS! *RELEASED*
Time

So the music will conform to the film, and have that classic sound as opposed to the new Intrada remix. Cool!

Is the Prometheus recording is being dropped from this release? Was it only being included in the first place because of what was missing from the Varése?

Opinions on the new recording differ; many were put off by how different it sounded. While admitting that there are some sound quality issues, I very much like the re-recording performance as it offers a very different reading of one of my all-time favorite scores (the version of “The Tree of Woe/Recovery” is quite arresting in the new version). I like the idea do it being included, but the original score tracks are much more important.

Post
#631999
Topic
Conan The Barbarian 1982 US Theatrical Edition & BONUS! *RELEASED*
Time

Quick question about the isolated score track:

Will the music conform to the film or will it be as Poledouris recorded it?

Because of the importance of music to Milius' style and his working relationship with Poledouris, there are very few moments where these diverge, but they do exist.

The most prominent would be the first few phrases of “The Kitchen,” which were reversed in the film. The Varése CD has the edit as it appears in the film, while the Intrada has this cue unedited. Nic Raine recorded the film edit for Prometheus — that recording also presents the film version of the orgy fight, which would have to be re-created from the Intrada set.

Post
#630248
Topic
Conan The Barbarian 1982 US Theatrical Edition & BONUS! *RELEASED*
Time

I've only sampled the Blu-ray once and was so horrified at what they had done to the score that I never scrutinized the picture overmuch.

I agree that all of the characters other than Conan are thinly outlined. I think the film is a product of its time, and movies of the fantasy genre weren't really known for their characterizations. I think Milius would defend the idea that the film is told from Conan's perspective, but I think it would have bolstered Conan's relationships had there been more substance to them (certainly the emotion of the moment when Conan leaves Valeria is conveyed primarily through the music as opposed to the text).

I think this is partly what Milius was trying to accomplish in the director's cut with the additional scene between Conan and Subotai before the Battle of the Mounds, but while the content of that scene is interesting, it does come across (to me, at least) to be somewhat out of character for both to be so reflective to one another.

Post
#630058
Topic
Conan The Barbarian 1982 US Theatrical Edition & BONUS! *RELEASED*
Time

I'm really excited about this project, especially the audio options. Having both the original score and the Prometheus re-recording available as alternate audio tracks, as I love both editions and usually listen to both in succession.

I can't stand the official Blu-ray… it would be one thing if the score wasn't central to the experience of watching the movie, but that remix was literally like removing a particular color from a picture.

I like both cuts of the film (each has elements in their favor), but can't stand the alternate scroll with Mako narration that appears at the end of the film. The original was so appropriate, while the new one just comes across as a teaser.

Post
#628541
Topic
Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released)
Time

Space Kaijuu said:

Will the 1985 LD mix be on version 2.5?

It seems the question now is whether it will be lossless or not given the space limitations of a single-layer Blu-ray.

Although Hairy Hen's reconstructions have become my default option for watching these movies now, I'm really hoping that all the English tracks could be lossless as I have fondness for each one of them for different reasons. But if it can't be done, it can't be done.

Post
#628433
Topic
Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released)
Time

nos402 said:

Thanks so much for all the help and patience with people new to this stuff like me. 

A couple of questions that I'm wondering about:

I successfully used MakeMKV to convert SW 2.1 to an MKV but when I play it, it defaults to subtitles on.  Is this set within the DVD info itself or is this an anomaly?

I also don't know what all the different audio tracks are (5 say DD 2/0, 1 says DD 2/0 and doesn't seem to have any audio, and 1 says DD 1.0 English, and the default for me is DD 3/2+1 English). Is the default designated in the disc itself, as in the audio track Harmy designated as the default?

And the biggest problem, ESB and RotJ won't convert. They start converting but after a few seconds I get a popup that just says "Copy complete. 0 titles saved, 1 failed."

EDIT: MKVNixTools seems to be getting the job done on ESB and RotJ. I'll check them tomorrow. 

If there is a more appropriate place for me to ask this stuff, just let me know and I'll take it there! Again, thanks for the hand holding and patience.

The subtitles don't default on the AVCHD version.

Unless you changed them, the audio tracks on 2.1 should be what Harmy described in this order (and yes, the 5.1 track is the default). The one with no sound was probably the music-only track during a point in the film where there was no music playing.

TRACK 1) 5.1 1977 70mm six track mix @ 640Kbps

TRACK 2) 2.0 1977 stereo mix @ 256Kbps

TRACK 3) 1.0 1977 mono mix @ 128Kbps

TRACK 4) 2.0 Isolated score @ 192Kbps (music only)

TRACK 5) 2.0 1993 LD Audio Commentary @ 192Kbps (silence filled with 1993 LD 2.0)

TRACK 6) 2.0 2004 DVD Audio Commentary @ 192Kbps

TRACK 7) 2.0 2004 starwars.com Audio Commentary @ 192Kbps

TRACK 8) 2.0 2011 BD Archival Interviews Audio Commentary @ 192Kbps

Post
#628340
Topic
Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released)
Time

Harmy said:

Depending on how much space will be needed for the extras, I might actually only include the three '77 mixes in lossless.

That would be disappointing, as I had synched the lossless '85 track to v.2.0 and loved how good the music in particular sounded, but the space limitations make that understandable. Here's hoping that won't be necessary, though.

I love Hairy Hen's work, can't wait to hear the new version.

Post
#627651
Topic
Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released)
Time

All of the Tatooine sequences have been much improved, with much better contrasts. Mos Eisley looks totally solid. It looks like you did some work on the Yavin launch as well, as it seems to be clearer than in the previous version, as do several of the model shots.


Colors seem stronger and more natural throughout. There is a very nice “filmic” look to this edition, much more so than on any of the official discs.


The chapters are kind of all over the place, but that's already been mentioned.

 

The very head of the shot with the Falcon blasting out of Docking Bay 94 looks a little strange, like the footage was looped. This wouldn't be so noticeable except that one of the commentaries points out a gaffe in the following shot (somebody leaving the cockpit behind Han), prompting a quick scan back to check it out, which puts that shot under a bit of scrutiny.


I'll keep looking for things to point out to you, but at the moment I'm just bowled over by how much this version “pops.” It looks like a photochemical process, just like it should. Call me old fashioned, but I like it when films look like films.


Very eager for the Blu-ray version with the lossless audio tracks, especially the 1985 mix option! The commentaries are a really nice touch — whenever the Special Edition changes are mentioned, the absence of them on the screen just makes me smile.

Post
#619859
Topic
Inconsistencies, retcons, and other problems in the OT
Time

It's interesting that the journey from the Hoth system to Bespin was brought up, because I noticed that as being a glaring error for the first time when I watched the film this weekend.

The only in-story justification I can imagine is that the Imperial fleet was spread out among the local star systems looking for the Falcon, and that the Avenger made a hyperspace jump to the Anoat system to rendezvous with the Executor and the rest of the fleet for Captain Needa's apology, inadvertently taking the Falcon with her. Now that I think about it, this is supported by the dialogue as Leia asks Han where they are.

 

It's reasonable to assume that this part of the film elapses quite a bit of time, both because of Luke's training and because of how entrenched Vader is at Cloud City when the Falcon arrives, but to imagine that they somehow travelled from one star system to another at sublight speeds is a bit difficult to swallow, even in the fast-and-loose physics of Star Wars.

 

Regarding the speeds discussed in the films:

Hyperspace is never really canonically discussed beyond a few oblique references (the infamous “parsec” line, Han's dressing down of Luke during their escape from Mos Eisley), but it's clear that we can't take “.5 past light speed” to literally mean 1.5c, unless there is some unknown quirk to relativity that once you surpass the speed of light, your velocity increases by some exponential fashion.

There is something important about hyperspace that should be somewhat illuminating in this context as well: while all of the ships depicted have hyperdrive, nobody ever chases anybody through hyperspace. The one instance of this happening in the original trilogy is when the Death Star tracks the Falcon to Yavin, which was done by following a homing beacon.

We don't really know how hyperspace works, so while I agree that maybe a little more care might have been made in selecting the terms in the writing stage, as it stands, I feel it falls less in the “inconsistencies” and more into the “technology so advanced it looks like magic to us” arena.

Post
#619856
Topic
When/Why did you become an OT purist?
Time

I saw Star Wars on its original theatrical run in 1977. I was only three, but it was the first movie that I ever asked to see again. The Empire Strikes Back shocked the hell out of me in 1980, and in 1981, my parents had already divorced, which gave me the opportunity to see the film at least once a week through it's entire re-release run. And I was there opening day right after school to find out what happened in Return of the Jedi.

I need to stress how long the wait was between Empire and Jedi. Not only was it unusual at the time for a major film to end in what was, while not technically a cliffhanger, definitely leading into the next movie (it just wasn't done), but the dangling threads — Han frozen in carbonite, Luke finding out that he has some serious dysfunction in his family — made it damn near unbearable.

My grandfather had one of the first VCRs and recorded the premiere of Star Wars on HBO. I watched that tape, and later ones made of Empire and Jedi over and over again. I bought the widescreen VHS editions (pre-Faces, 1985 sound mix, original poster art and From Star Wars To Jedi) when they came out in '92 and was delighted to finally see them in Panavision again, and a few years later I had a laserdisc player and bought the Definitive Edition CAV box set.

I had a book when I was younger called The Making of Star Wars, and for one Christmas when I was older, my father gave me a copy of Industrial Light and Magic: The Art of Special Effects. These two books gave me a real appreciation that cinema was a construct; a combination of creativity, inventiveness, collaboration and hard work that came together to tell a story. It was through understanding how the special effects worked in Star Wars and other films that gave me an understanding of how film worked as a technical process.

Why am I an OT purist? Because the originals are the movies that inspired me.

Now, I don't mind that Lucas is altering the films; one one hand, I actually think that it's kind of cool that he can do that. However, I found the changes that he made not only to be lackluster, but very distracting. They're not for me (neither were the Prequels). Unfortunately, as time has gone on, my television has gotten bigger and it has been harder and harder to be satisfied with what the Star Wars movies looked like. I discovered this site only last week when I read about the Despecialized Edition elsewhere on the web.

Lucas' attempt to make one, final canonical version of these films is resulting in a gabajazillion variations, with it being very difficult to determine what one is going to see. I just want to watch the movies I grew up with, warts and all, in reasonably good quality for this era of home video.

___________________________


To this day, I maintain that the best holiday present I ever got was the Millenium Falcon action playset for Chanukah. It had been a rough year, so I wasn't expecting it, but my mother saved and bought it for me because she knew how much I wanted it.