StarThoughts

Early LD AC-3 tracks used the original film mixes, but The Matrix came much later and was one of the gateway titles for the new DVD format. Would they have prepared two separate AC-3 tracks for the two platforms when they were being released almost simultaneously? If a home video 5.1 mix was made, would it not have made sense to use it for both (meaning that the LD AC-3 track would be the same as the DVD's except for the bit rate). I could (and hope that I am) wrong.

I'm just asking questions here; I don't know. I've never heard the LD AC-3 track for The Matrix, and wouldn't know how it compares to the DVD.

I was also wondering if the LDs PCM track was just a folddown of the 5.1 track or was it it's own mix?

And was the theatrical Dolby Digital mix different from the DTS mix (which I've heard and is a lot of fun)?

Wasn't LD Dolby AC-3 limited to 384 kb/s? If so, the DVD's 448 kb/s track would probably sound better if corrected for the volume discrepancy.

I did notice a slight greenish tinge to the Matrix sequences when I saw the film in the theater. Memory is a faulty thing, but I don't remember it being as pronounced as it was on the DVD (and certainly not what the Blu-ray looks like). Is it possible that the original grading was considered too subtle for home video?

I really liked this presentation of the film, but since you asked, here's the one issue I noticed:

Some of the shots in the Matrix during Cypher's betrayal scene have minor banding. It's not that big of a deal, but it becomes really noticeable in the two close-ups of Trinity at 1:30, watch the shadow on her face.

There may be other issues, but when I watched the film it was for entertainment purposes and not quality control.

None of you use the correct spelling of the word, which has four Ms and a silent Q. It's true.

Thank you very much!!!

Didn't the original Marvel comics adaptation of Star Wars spell it “lightsabre?”

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_M7D1hE_0cz0/S2wytZhiEnI/AAAAAAAAC3c/bTLCxycc-d0/s1600-h/SW402.jpg

The Blu-ray has compression artifacts and the color timing is revisionist. A preservation of a 35 millimeter print would be well worthwhile, in my opinion.

Were the PCM tracks on the laserdisc a fold-down of the 5.1 track, or its own mix?

I would like to create a subtitle file for a Blu-ray I'm planning to burn. It's an original film, so I am starting from scratch; I have already transcribed all of the dialogue, I need to know how to time it to the film and create the correct type of file. Can anybody direct me as to where to start with such a thing?

I'm very much looking forward to seeing the results here. Very glad to see that the M&E track is going to be preserved — it's actually a good reference for the mono soundtrack.

When the Criterion LD came out, it was revelatory because of the widescreen framing and because it had decent colors. People were very used to seeing crappy, faded prints in pan and scan. It looked pretty good for its era, but I like the more autumnal colors of the 35th anniversary edition.

Dunedain said:

That's interesting, I thought hairy hen had used primarily the Definitive Collection laserdisk with some of the 1997 SE laserdisk for the latest version (version 2.0, I guess) of his Star Wars 70mm theatrical soundtrack reconstruction/restoration. Has he switched to an even better more accurate source for his restoration?

I assume when you say DTS-HD MA 5.1 soundtrack you are referring to the Star Wars 70mm reconstruction, since I think that's the only such soundtrack on the V1 Star Wars Blu-ray. But maybe there's more than one DTS-HD MA 5.1 soundtrack on the V2 Star Wars Blu-ray.

No, they're referring to the '97 Special Edition Blu-Ray, which will contain the audio from the original theatrical DTS CD ROMs converted to DTS-MA.

To the best of my knowledge, hairy hen's 70 mm reconstruction is built primarily out of the 93 DC LD mix, with bits from other pre-'97 sources to delete the additions, with pretty much the only post-'97 element being the .1 (bass channel) track. I could be wrong about specifics.

Question: How does the theatrical DTS standard differ from the home video incarnation (assuming 1536 kb/s)? How much advantage is gained by presenting it in DTS-MA? Or is it just being done in this manner to avoid any possible transcoding issues?

The commentary and most of the extras are on DVD. Some of the still-frame stuff never made it to another format. The isolated music and effects track is only on the laserdisc, I would think that definitely worth preserving.

azmodeous said:

Just random breaking up of this discussion, but I have to say that I love the warm golden color scheme that Tatooine has in this version. It feels very natural to me, and I never got to see the film in a theater.

I saw this movie in the theater many times — one of the benefits of having had divorced parents was that I could see any movie I liked twice as many times, and it wasn't too difficult to convince my parents to go see Star Wars — and while memory is a notoriously unreliable yardstick (and these are memories of events over two decades ago), Harmy's 2.1 version, with the revised color palette, had such a familiar sense, so much “clicked into place” so to speak, that no other home video presentation of this film has ever done for me before. It just feels right.

Impressive. Most impressive. Especially considering what you had to start with! Even the warble effect/compression artifact you mention, which are not that bad, kind of blend with the filtered sound of the message audio anyway.

I'm also looking forward to seeing this, I hate the recoloring. I'm eager to hear the original DTS theatrical audio as well, I have fond memories.

I expect all of the sound mixes would have unique audio properties even if they were built out of the same original stems; this was the analog era, after all.

I remember when I first got the '97 LD set home, and first compared them sonically to the 93 DC. While it was louder, the range was gone. The parts that needed real “oomph” just didn't have enough. I really didn't like the Dolby Digital track, either, but that may have had more to do with how used to PCM I was at the time, 384 kb/s DD just sounded anemic.

Despite some of the changes (some of which, such as the glass shattering during the cell block shootout, I find really distracting), the '93 track has the best quality of all of the sources.

I'm really digging the new version of the 70 millimeter track reconstruction. I can't wait for the SW DE Blu-ray so I can watch it in lossless with the sound a-blasting (I could, technically, burn a Blu-ray from the MKV, but I'd rather wait for the Real Thing). I have several friends eagerly awaiting my screening thereof.

Harmy said:

I actually feel quite certain that the way things are going with fan preservations, the studios will soon have a hell of a hard time to make a more quality release and would really have to go the extra mile to surpass the fan efforts - we're not there yet but given some time, we could be.

We're very, very close, at least in terms of many catalogue titles. Some studios lavish lush attention, others grab what they have, scrub it and toss it on a disc. Others seem to go out of their way to ruin something that already worked fine (Conan the Barbarian!?!).

The new version of the 70 millimeter mix was included in DE 2.5 MKV, yes?

I've only sampled the DTS core track briefly when skipping around the film and it seemed that there were several moments that were much more discrete than before (e.g. Han and Leia's conversation in the Falcon cockpit after the dogfight).

It's Harmy's project, and he gets to define “Despecialized” the way he sees fit. What the term might or might not mean to you is immaterial.

The stated purpose of the Despecialized Editions is to restore the theatrical versions of these films to a high definition format. Restoring effects shots to their original form is part of that. You're welcome to make your own project with your own parameters.

Harmy said:

Yes, on the BD all the English tracks and the ISO score will be lossless.

The Force will be with you.

Always.

The Criterion laserdisc audio is better representative of the theatrical soundtrack, but the Orion laserdisc audio was more aggressive. If the theatrical version is going to be preserved, it might be a worthy audio option. Unfortunately, I don't know anybody who has that disc anymore.

I got this from the Spleen (now seeding) and jumped around a bit. I'd like to say it was to check the picture and sound quality, but I really was just watching my favorite parts.

It looks fantastic, though, more solid than the AVCHD 2.1 edition, which looked great in the first place. I know I sound like a scratched record because I keep saying this, but it's true: this looks like film, and those Blu-rays do not.

hh's revised 5.1 track has a few moments where it definitely seemed more discrete (e.g. Han and Leia's conversation in the Falcon cockpit after the dogfight). Unfortunately, i's early morning here, so I can't pump up the volume the way I'd want to to do this any justice. I do like the isolated score track too 

One question for Harmy: you have said that the BD version will have more lossless options since all of the special features are being moved to a separate disc (an idea I like very much). Does that mean the 85 and 93 mixes will be…? Forgive me if you've already answered this, I scrolled back several pages looking and didn't see if you had.

I'm looking forward to sitting down and watching the whole thing, but with work and my friend's wedding this weekend (I'm in the party), it may be some time before I have the chance. But once I have the chance, I'll be able to watch Star Wars the way I want to.

Thanks to everybody involved.

I just want to bring up that the original Image laserdisc had a beefed-up audio track that I don't believe has been replicated on any other release.