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Spyder X

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27-May-2004
Last activity
4-Jun-2005
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93

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Post
#55447
Topic
I'm thinking lawsuit...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55447/action/topic#55447
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: jimbo
The Special Edition is the Star Wars trilogy and therefore there is no legal problem with what Lucas is doing.


No. Legally, Lucas is on shakey ground right now, as Pagz said. Read his post again.

The Special Editions and the Original Star Wars Trilogy aren't exactly the same things. There IS a difference, period. The Original Trilogy was released in 1977, 1980 and 1983 and consisted of the first three Star Wars movie ever made. The Special Editions are modified, newer versions of those movies with new effects, some new scenes, some modified scenes, audio changes, etc. They're NOT exactly the same. The older versions are the original Star Wars Trilogy and the newer versions are the Star Wars Trilogy - Special Edition. Lucasfilm can get sued for false advertisment (even if it's quite unlikely).
Post
#55418
Topic
I'm thinking lawsuit...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55418/action/topic#55418
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Bossk
Quote
Originally posted by: Spyder X
There are probably going to be lots of returns of the set when people discover it's not the original versions they saw. Who knows, maybe Lucasfilm will even get sued for false advertising (which would serve them right for trying to pass off the Special Editions as the Original Trilogy as if the Special Editions were always there).


With return policies at stores these days, this ain't gonna happen either. Unless there is a physical defect to the set, they won't accept returns. And, even then, they only exchange it. The only way to return DVDs anymore is if it is still sealed and you have a receipt. But for people to realize it's different, they need to open it.


Ah, you're right. I didn't think of that. So it looks like there won't be returns after all. But who knows, there'll probably at least be complaints from people who don't like the new changes and who weren't aware of them until they bought the set.
Post
#55410
Topic
I'm thinking lawsuit...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55410/action/topic#55410
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Mr.Coffee
Thats exactly what I'm saying. Is anyone here a lawyer or no one? I am getting real pissed off with Lucasfilm and the whole marketing 'machine' that tries to controle us. Lucas is not God! Why does nobody stand up to him? Everybody is too scared to lose there cushy jobs. Don't the many people working on these 'Lucas projects' release they are bad? Bunch of puppets. Another big problem , I think, is Rick McCallumn (?sp)


I agree. I, too, wonder why nobody in Lucasfilm seems to be standing up to Lucas. I mean with all the rumored changes like Hayden in Return of the Jedi and Boba's voice being changed, I'm wondering why none of the prequel actors who are going to be replacing the original ones (or in the case of Boba Fett, the voice) are protesting any of this. Do they all support it? Or are they all afraid of standing up to Lucas? Or does their contract say they have to do all that stuff, or what?

What might be a good idea is to express our unhappiness about the box set to the Jedi Council at starwars.com. I've seriously considered asking them why Lucas refuses to release the originals and why this box set isn't even being labelled as "Special Editions" (or whatever they are now) and so on. That might actually be our best chance of letting them know that we don't want the SEs, since the actual people from Lucasfilm that actually work on Star Wars are the ones that answer the questions there. If we can get this through to them, who knows... Maybe they'll listen, maybe they won't (probably won't, unfortunately), but it might be worth a shot. Especially since there's that letter writing campaign thing today to Lucasfilm.
Post
#55406
Topic
I'm thinking lawsuit...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55406/action/topic#55406
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: jimbo
Lucas never advertised them as original versions. Therefore there is no false advertising. What about Disneys false advertising. It did lable Fantasia DVD original and uncut but it wasn't. Same with The Lion King. Tell me where it says original versions on the package and then I will agree.


Even if it's not blatant false advertising, it IS misleading. The DVDs are labelled as the original Star Wars Trilogy. It has NO mention of Special Editions anywhere (out of all the artwork we've seen, anyway). The Original Trilogy came out in 1977, 1980 and 1983. The Star Wars Trilogy - Special Edition came out in 1997. They're NOT the same thing. Like it or not, it IS still at least somewhat misleading.

There are probably going to be lots of returns of the set when people discover it's not the original versions they saw. Who knows, maybe Lucasfilm will even get sued for false advertising (which would serve them right for trying to pass off the Special Editions as the Original Trilogy as if the Special Editions were always there).

Too bad they won't make any notice of the sets being the Special Editions. At least the THX 1138 DVD is being labelled as the "George Lucas Director's Cut". Couldn't they even just put a small label on the Star Wars boxset saying these are the Special Editions (or Ultimate Editions or whatever they're now called)?
Post
#55208
Topic
A little help here...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55208/action/topic#55208
Time
And I just replied again, to clear up some stuff (although that 1000 characters rule is extremely annoying). I cleared up some stuff, like explaining why I was so pissed off in my first post, and explaining that the whole "sheep" comment was directed at that idiot who said that real Star Wars fans will be excited for any version of Star Wars on DVD.

I'm waiting to see what they say now.
Post
#55189
Topic
Should Star Wars Purists Shut Up?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55189/action/topic#55189
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: jimbo
Quote
Originally posted by: Pagz
Get a clue Jimbo, he hates the prequel trilogy, not the OT.


The prequels are Star Wars. If he hates them he hates Star Wars.


Wrong. You don't have to like every single Star Wars movie to like Star Wars. Are you saying that because he hates the prequels he hates the originals, too? Because he clearly likes the original Star Wars movies, but not the prequels. So it IS possible to love the originals but hate the prequels and it does NOT mean he hates Star Wars.

But I'm going to go by your logic now. The Star Wars Holiday Special is also Star Wars. So everyone who doesn't like it doesn't like Star Wars, right? If so, then I guess George Lucas doesn't like Star Wars either.
Post
#55176
Topic
A little help here...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55176/action/topic#55176
Time
Wow, I just visited the thread for the first time in a few days. Now, I don't know if I'm taking it too seriously, but some of those posts seriously pissed me off. What the hell do those dumbasses think they're doing? Who the hell are they to say that people who don't want this new DVD set aren't true Star Wars fans?

HAL, I'm completely with you on this one. I think I'm gonna reply to some of these idiots, but I might have to restrain myself, otherwise I'll probably get banned for flaming them and then I wouldn't be able to argue against them and tell them what I think of them.

All right, I've posted my reply. Now I just have to wait and see what they say.
Post
#55055
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55055/action/topic#55055
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: jimbo
I God the Hayden head was bad enough. Please do not change Bobas voice.

Quote
Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
meh... regardless of how many things they fix and dont fix... i keep on remembering that its gonna have all the SE bastardized scenes...
so i guess its not too much to get excited about...


Now what is it. Now that the Jabba animation and Han and Greedo have been fixed what about the 1997 Special Editions is there to complain about. The only thing left is the new Hayden head. I am finally on the same bout when you guys. I hate that change to death.


Well, this might vary from person to person, but for most of us, there's Luke's scream as he falls, Darth Vader's new arrival at his Star Destroyer, the new Jabba's Palace dance sequence thing (both the dance sequence and the new song) and the new celebration ending at the end of Return of the Jedi. There's also lots of other stuff, but those are just the main ones.

Han and Greedo might look a lot better now (and even though they improved it a lot, it's still Greedo shooting first) and they may have fixed up Jabba (in which case I probably won't mind the scene as much), but there's still lots of stuff they changed in the 1997 Special Editions that we hate, as I pointed out above.

And if they do alter Boba Fett's voice, I'm going to be really pissed off. I'm hoping it's not true, but unfortunately I can definitely see this happening. Why can't Lucas just stick to actual, real improvements like fixing up the lightsabers in A New Hope or removing the matte lines around the Rancor? Why does he have to completely screw with the movies like this by adding Hayden into the end of Return of the Jedi and now possibly changing Boba Fett's voice? Well, this all proves to me that the Special Editions (or Ultimate Editions or whatever these the new versions are called) aren't the movies that George Lucas originally intended to make, as he always claims - they're the movies he wants them to be right now. If he's embarrased by the original versions or just hates them or something and because of that is now changing the movies to resemble what he wants them to be right now, he should come out and just say it instead of hiding behind his "it's how I originally intended them to be" excuse, which is not true.

Yes, some of the Special Edition stuff he did originally intend to do (Jabba the Hutt in A New Hope, Cloud City and Mos Eisley being more open, etc.) but there's also lots of stuff he did that he didn't originally intend, like Greedo shooting first. He may have said that he originally intended that, but I don't believe him one bit, especially since I read part of an interview with Gary Kurtz, who was the producer for A New Hope. In the part I read, he said that it wasn't true that Lucas originally intended for Greedo to shoot first and that it could have easily been done back then, but it was shot and edited as Han shooting first because that's the way it was written in the script and that's the way Lucas wanted it back then.

So some of these things Lucas is doing just to be politically correct and say "No" to violence or something like that. And in case anyone's interested, check this out: http://dvdfile.com/software/cut_list/files/starwars_censored.htm

It shows two scenes aboard the Death Star where some of the violence was censored in the Special Editions, which really backs up the argument that Lucas changed Han shooting first to Greedo shooting first because of political correctness.

Anyway, I think I've just gone waaaaaay off topic, so I'll stop here.
Post
#54450
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/54450/action/topic#54450
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Obi-Wan Spicoli
What clip at ugo.com are you talking about? Do you mean the april fools joke with the fake commentaries? Those clips were straight out of the Special Edition.


Yes, those are the ones I was referring to. I know the others are from the SEs, but is the Han/Greedo one from them, too? It definitely looked different than the SE version to me, but I could be wrong.
Post
#54447
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/54447/action/topic#54447
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Obi-Wan Spicoli
And back to the original topic...

I won't leave this up for very long so get it while you can. Han vs. Greedo 3.0 (561KB)


Well, it certainly looks much better than in the 1997 Special Editions, even though Han shooting first would still be better.

This clip looks a bit different than the one I posted some time back (the one at ugo.com), so they probably changed it around since then. But now with the way they've changed it, it really looks like they filmed it that way.

Also, with the way it is, it now looks more like Greedo fired a warning shot and Han took that opportunity to blow his head off, rather than Greedo missing and Han shooting in self defense. So it's definitely better, although as I said, Han shooting first would be still be better.
Post
#54393
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/54393/action/topic#54393
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: jimbo
I believe in equality. Yes women should have equal rights to men. But I think we are the opposite of the 19th century right now. It was wrong to not let women vote but its just as wrong for the legal systemto give mothers more rights in a divorce. I personally know a friend of my fathers who lost his kids in a corrupt legal system. He seemed like a good father and his kids agreed but the court now rarely lets him visit his kids. That happenes more then you think. Legal system always believes its the males fault. It needs to end.


While I disagree with a lot of the things you've been saying, I do have to agree here. There's definitely a bit of a double-standard in society. In the past, various groups (women, black people, etc.) were opressed. They didn't have the same rights as the "dominant" groups at the time (males, white people, etc.) and weren't allowed to vote and so on. Thankfully, though, those days are over and now everyone has equal rights. However, with political correctness and all that, there's now a double-standard between those formerly oppressed groups and the formerly dominant groups. If a woman or black guy or whatever insults or makes fun of one of men or white people or whatever, nobody really says anything about it and it's generally ignored and stuff, but whenever the roles are switched around the people from the formerly dominant groups get called racist or sexist. And it's not just when there are insults or jokes or whatever. It also goes for crime. If a woman gets beaten by her husband, or a bunch of white guys beat up a black guy or whatever, it gets on the news and there's a big story about it and the beatings get called racist or sexist crimes or whatever, but if it was the other way around, it generally wouldn't be like that. Think about it - how many times have you heard news stories about wives beating up their husbands? I sure haven't heard very many. And don't say it's because it doesn't happen, because it does. Things like these happen from ALL sides, but when the roles are reversed from the usual way, it's doesn't get reported on as much because of the double standard.

Well, I'm done for now. Anyway, like I said before, I disagree with Jimbo on a lot of stuff he's been saying, but I agree about the double standard issue. It does exist.

And by the way, I know that there are more than just the groups I mentioned involved when it comes to double standards, but I'm just using these ones as examples.
Post
#54360
Topic
Stupidest Prequal complaints
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/54360/action/topic#54360
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: jimbo
Quote
Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
notice how jimbo always makes a joke after he knows people are either going to burn him or in fact they have burned him...
he never continues a debate because he know he'll get owned


Do you come to this site for no other reason but to try to piss me off? You seem to disagree with me in everything. I hate the fact you took the name of one of my favorite movie characters.


Somehow, I don't think he's coming on just to piss you off. And don't be surprised that he disagrees with you. This is the forum of a site dedicated to the preservation of the original versions of the original trilogy. You're a guy who loves the Special Editions, the prequels, and thinks Attack of the Clones is a masterpiece. Coming on here and talking about how the Special Editions are better and all the new things are improvements (when this is clearly a site about preservation of the original versions) and how Attack of the Clones is the greatest movie of all time isn't exactly going to get everyone to agree with you and respect your opinion (especially when you talk about how it's silly to like Return of the Jedi more than Attack of the Clones (or something like that, I don't remember exactly what you said but it's somewhere further back in one of these threads) and take personal offence when someone insults one of the actresses from the prequels).
Post
#54276
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/54276/action/topic#54276
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: jimbo
Quote
Originally posted by: HotRod
My only real hate is the Shuttle in ESB...Ruins the flow and it really pissed me off...

Jimbo let me ask you something..

You love AOTC right?!?

Yes you do!!

So in 10 or 15 years time and old man Lucas is sitting at home bored shitless. So he comes up with the idea to fuck around with the Star Wars films again...and he changes alot of AOTC.....How would you feel, that the film you loved for so many years, suddenly chnaged to a bag of knob...how would you feel???


I encourage changes to Attack of the Clones. I loved the original versions. In my opinion the Special Editions are just the original movies with better effects.


The Special Editions are the same movies with better effects? You mean better effects like the "better" Han and Greedo scene in A New Hope, the "better" Alderaan, Death Star and Death Star II explosions, the "better" scene where Luke now screams as he falls, the "better" sequence that now shows Darth Vader going to his Star Destroyer, which uses footage from Return of the Jedi as he arrives, the "better" Jabba dance sequence, the "better" looking Sarlaac with its new (and fake looking) beak and the "better" end celebration at the end of Return of the Jedi? Are these the "improvements" and "better effects" you're always talking about?

Maybe for you the originals and SEs are the same movies, but for me the SEs and originals are practically two different trilogies because of all the changes that are being done (especially if more are done with this DVD release, which is most likely happening).

Quote
Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
of course jimbo wouldnt care...
this guy has no love for real movies...
hell he thinks AOTC is a masterpiece... he thinks Schindlers List would have been far superior in colour... he thinks Natalie Portman was a great actress in the Star Wars movies..
lol
shall i go on...

Jimbo prolly thinks that Stevan Segal deserves an academy award for one of his shitbox movies for all he knows...
lol

I agree with you on this one.
Post
#54242
Topic
Old Special Effects Vs New Special Effects
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/54242/action/topic#54242
Time
I think we had a thread about this a while back, but whatever.

Old ones definitely win for me. They look much more realistic, because when models, miniatures, puppets, and so on are used, they exist, they're actually there (even if they're superimposed into the scene or whatever). When it comes to CGI/new effects, CGI is fake. If it's not done right (and it usually isn't) it looks pretty cartoonish and fake looking. It's especially noticeable when actors have to react to CGI and walk around CGI sets and stuff. It looks much better and more realistic when actors are on real sets with real people (even if those people are in masks/suits to look like aliens or whatever, they're still there and actors can react to real things).

That's one of my major complaints about the prequels. Lucas doesn't give the old stuff a chance anymore, he practically uses CGI for everything. I just don't get why he doesn't use the best of both of them instead of packing the prequels with often fake-looking CGI.
Post
#54117
Topic
The Phantom Menace
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/54117/action/topic#54117
Time
But if you read my post carefully, you'll see that I also said that they don't bother me because they're just added scenes and it's not like Lucas is completely screwing with TPM. I don't have a problem with added scenes that were left out of the theatrical version like TPM had. Like I said in another thread, the problem is when existing scenes are modified or replaced entirely.
Post
#54107
Topic
Cliches that need to stop
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/54107/action/topic#54107
Time
Another one I just thought of:

When someone (usually the hero) is firing away endlessly at something (usually a monster, alien or some kind of indestructable bad guy) and then one time when they pull the trigger, there's just a "click" sound and they look at the gun, pull the trigger again and again and again, with the "click" sound each time and then either drop the gun and run or try to reload (in which case they're either way too slow or they fumble the ammo and can't seem to get it in properly).

Another one is when the indestructable bad guy has gone down and the hero thinks he's dead or whatever, but then he starts coming back up and the hero just stands there and stares at the bad guy and doesn't even begin to turn around to run until the bad guy's already on his feet. A good example of this is in Terminator 2, when the T-1000 gets blown pieces near the end after being frozen, and then the pieces melt and slowly come back together. The Terminator (T-800) and Sarah and John Connor don't start to run until the T-1000 is already starting to form its human shape again.
Post
#54106
Topic
my thoughts on originals vs SE...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/54106/action/topic#54106
Time
The thing that makes it different is that in the SEs, the previous scenes aren't being deleted/replaced because of time or budget reasons, they're being purposely erased by Lucas, and replaced with digital effects.

And deleted scenes are normally included as part of the special features section of the DVDs, so people can still see them. In the case of the SEs, Lucas is attempting to bury the scenes he replaced.

And I still disagree with you about Return of the Jedi being the worst. Personally, I think The Phantom Menace is the worst (even though I don't hate it) and I'd pick Return of the Jedi over it any day. And Return of the Jedi wasn't even originally supposed to be the end of the Star Wars saga, it was originally going to be a nine-part saga, but now Lucas has said he's not doing the other three parts.
Post
#54104
Topic
The Phantom Menace
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/54104/action/topic#54104
Time
I haven't, but that's mainly because

1) The changes don't really bother me that much because they're just added scenes, so it's not like The Phantom Menace is some huge classic that Lucas screwed with completely after twenty years.

2) Even if I wanted to edit that stuff out, there's no way I could, because I wouldn't have a clue where to even begin, though I'm hoping to learn eventually so I can make my own special little version of the original trilogy when the DVD's out (keeping the few good SE changes like removed matte lines and transparency in the Battle of Hoth, and replacing the ultra crappy ones like Greedo shooting first and Luke's wimpy scream with their original versions).

And also, if I really want to watch the original version of The Phantom Menace without the edited stuff, I still have a widescreen VHS tape of it.
Post
#54103
Topic
my thoughts on originals vs SE...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/54103/action/topic#54103
Time
The "deleted scenes" argument really doesn't work for the Special Editions. Lucas didn't restore a bunch of scenes that were originally cut out from the theatrical editions (except for the Biggs and Jabba scenes). Most of the newly added scenes in the Special Editions were made specifically for the Special Editions, they weren't originally shot when the movies were being filmed. Also, not all of the new things in the Special Editions are newly inserted scenes. A lot of them are already-existing scenes that Lucas decided to "improve" (Greedo shooting first, Luke screaming as he fell, badly-done CGI in Mos Eisley and Cloud City, the Sarlaac's beak, and so on). And some of the already-exisiting scenes were replaced altogether by new, digital ones. The main one that comes to mind right now is the Battle of Yavin. Some of the old shots are kept intact, but most of them are now new, digital shots (even though most were based on the original shots).

So our problem with Special Editions isn't that Lucas is adding in deleted scenes (the Jabba scene and the Biggs scene, which were pretty much the only REAL deleted scenes - all the others were made just for the SEs). It's that he's modifying already existing shots and sometimes replacing them with new, digital shots.

And by the way, I completely disagree about Return of the Jedi being the worst Star Wars movie. Worst of the original trilogy, possibly, but certainly not the worst of all of them.
Post
#53978
Topic
Cliches that need to stop
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/53978/action/topic#53978
Time
I don't know if this is a cliche, but when there's a bomb in front of the hero and he has to cut one of two wires and he has five seconds to decide which one and then right as the bomb's about to explode, he cuts one of them and saves the entire building/city/planet/whatever. I really, really, really hate it when they do that. In fact, any situation when the hero's faced with some major problem and fixes it at the last second (literally).

Note to movie studios: stop putting stuff like that in movies. It's not suspenseful, it's not dramatic, it's just idiotic. We KNOW the hero's going to make it out fine. Stop having him cut the wire at the last second (unless he cuts the wrong wire and the bomb explodes - that would be awesome to see for once).

Some others that I hate have already been posted, like when the hero runs as fast as he can while the bad guys fire bullets and he doesn't get hit once. Also, I hate it when the hero's being shot at by the bad guys and he runs without getting hit by the bullets (as I just said) and then he jumps through a glass window or whatever and lands on the other side, miraculously unscratched. And I hate basically anything that's way too unrealistic just to seem dramatic. I mean, I don't have a problem with unrealism with movies (I'm a Star Wars fan, aren't I?) but sometimes they sacrifice so much realism just to make something seem more dramatic or suspenseful (those two examples I mentioned) that it just becomes ridiculous and unoriginal. Why can't the bad guys shoot at the hero and have the hero get hit by the bullets and fall down and die and have the bad guys win? Or how about the hero jumping through a glass pane only to find out that glass isn't quite as conveniently smooth as he'd hoped? Those would be really cool and original to see, instead of always being so boring and predictable.

Well, to sum it up, I basically hate any movie cliche that involves the hero miraculously getting out alive and completely unscratched and having a perfect, happy ending.

I'm sure there are others I hate, but I can't think of them right now. I'll post them when I remember them.