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Spartacus01

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22-Nov-2022
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25-Jul-2025
Posts
348

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Post
#1656332
Topic
What do you HATE about the EU?
Time

JadedSkywalker said:

EU purists who insist it was a part of George’s vision and that the prequel and the EU all fits together as one piece.

Who insist the Saga was always about the father, the son and grandchildren. And the bending over backwards and stretching things to act like EU wasn’t just a way for George to make lots of money on tie in fiction. That he was in no way beholden to, but could borrow from if he so desired.

I may agree with them on Disney SW to an extent, and even on Filoni retcons and destruction of the EU lore. But to act like the prequel was perfect and also didn’t destroy SW canon is incongruous. And its George’s vision the original must be suppressed, George as godhead in a religion, I reject that.

There was one continuity and canon I’ll admit that before Disney made the Expanded Universe legends. But Lucasfilm always put films and tv projects above video games, comic books and novels.

And George allowed Filoni to do whatever he wanted and to throw out the EU completely. It’s like there were two Star Wars universes before there were three branches, but Filoni was taken up into Disney Star Wars and EU was abandoned, made Legends aka lies, tall tales.

My philosophy with Star Wars Canon is pretty simple: I consider Canon whatever I like, and I just ignore what I don’t. I don’t care what George thought was Canon, or what Lucasfilm labeled as “C-Canon” or “G-Canon” or “Legends” or whatever. If I like the story, the characters, the way it expands the universe, then it’s Canon to me. Period. And if something feels off, ruins characters, breaks internal logic, or just rubs me the wrong way, I don’t care how official it is. I just mentally toss it out. As simple as that.

Post
#1655961
Topic
What is your personal Star Trek canon?
Time

After re-watching the entire the Star Trek Saga, I’ve updated my personal Canon.

  • Star Trek: Enterprise
  • The Good That Men Do (novel)
  • Kobayashi Maru (novel)
  • The Romulan War Duology
  • Rise of the Federation (novel series)
  • Star Trek: The Original Series (selected episodes)
  • Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
  • Star Trek: The Search for Spock
  • Star Trek: The Voyage Home
  • Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country
  • Star Trek: The Next Generation
  • Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
  • Star Trek: Generations
  • Star Trek: Voyager
  • Star Trek: First Contact
  • Star Trek: Insurrection

I removed Nemesis from my personal Canon because I just cannot bring myself to accept Data’s death. I also removed The Motion Picture and The Final Frontier because, after re-watching them with a critical eye after years, I finally understood why everyone dislikes them. Finally, I included the Enterprise novels because I hated the finale of the show, mostly due to Trip’s death. I really liked the way in which they retconned the last episode, and I love how the books continue the characters’ stories.

Post
#1655548
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

For me, there’s only one moment in Attack of the Clones where Anakin comes across as genuinely creepy. It’s the scene where Padmé tells him that she feels uncomfortable when he looks at her in a certain way. As she’s leaving, Anakin turns to look at her and says, “Sorry, my lady,” while giving her an almost predatory look.

That’s the only point in the whole movie where I feel like his behavior crosses the line from awkward to actually creepy. In the rest of the film, yes, he’s kind of intense and says some weird things, but it mostly just feels cringey, not threatening. However, to be fair, I don’t think that scene was written or directed to come across that way. I doubt George Lucas or Hayden Christensen meant for Anakin’s look to feel predatory. I think they were aiming for a flirtatious or maybe even a little bit teasing look, but the execution didn’t quite work.

I think a big part of why Anakin’s look feels so off comes down to Hayden’s facial features. He has very Nordic traits: blue eyes, high cheekbones, fair skin, etc. And I’ve noticed that people with that kind of facial structure can sometimes come across as unsettling or even creepy when they try to pull off charming or smug expressions. It’s not about what they’re trying to communicate; it’s just how those facial features translate certain expressions. What’s meant to look confident or seductive can easily come off as cold or unsettling instead. I’ve seen it happen plenty of times in real life too.

So I don’t think the problem is in the acting or the directing. It’s more of a visual mismatch between intention and result. The moment was probably supposed to feel playful or a bit bold, but because of how Hayden’s face registers that particular expression, it ends up giving a totally different vibe.

Post
#1654764
Topic
What do you HATE about the EU?
Time

Superweapon VII said:

I think it’s a misreading of DE that Luke embraces the dark side in the story. Luke is attempting to understand the secrets of the dark side, both to understand why his father turned and as a means of conquering the dark side from within, but he underestimates the sheer oppressive nature of the dark side and comes dangerously close to succumbing to it, but Leia comes in at just the right moment to pull him back from falling into that abyss.

The problem is that Dark Empire basically rehashes something that already happened and was resolved at the end of Return of the Jedi. Luke already flirted with the Dark Side. He was right there on the edge, he nearly killed Vader in anger. That was his moment of temptation, and he overcame it. That was the whole point of his character arc in the Original Trilogy: he saw what his father became, he almost followed the same path, and he chose to stop and throw his weapon away. So when Dark Empire comes along and says, “He flirted with the Dark Side again, was almost about to fall, and it took Leia to bring him back,” it just undercuts everything that came before. It feels like going in circles instead of progressing the story. From a narrative standpoint, it is just not satisfying.

Post
#1652931
Topic
The Unpopular Film, TV, Music, Art, Books, Comics, Games, & Technology Opinion Thread (for all you contrarians!)
Time

As a longtime UFO enthusiast, I really love Close Encounters of the Third Kind for all the nods to classic UFO lore. The way Spielberg reproduced the five observables and the electromagnetic effects of UFOs on cars and power plants, the cameo by J. Allen Hynek, the French character clearly based on Jacques Vallée… it’s all great stuff.

But honestly, when I take a step back and look at the actual story, I can’t help but see the aliens as the bad guys. Think about it: they show up, abduct people, and take them away from their lives and families for years. They abducted both the military pilots who vanished back in 1945 and the crew of that ship they found in Mongolia, holding them for who knows how long. They even took a child from his mother for entire days, and drove the main character to obsession and ruin, completely destroying his family life.

Seriously, who the heck do you think you are? This is our damn planet, not yours. You don’t just get to show up and mess with people’s lives like that. Go back to Zeta Reticuli and don’t come here again.

Post
#1649049
Topic
What do you HATE about the EU?
Time

davidt0504 said:

I really hate the Dark Empire plot. It was the one thing I was happy to have gone when Disney took over…

Too bad they repeated that same plot in The Rise of Skywalker, with the only difference being that, at least, in Dark Empire they tried to explain how the hell Palpatine managed to come back, whereas in The Rise of Skywalker they did not explain anything.

Post
#1647677
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

It is not exactly a radical idea, but I would still like to propose it. Essentially, I believe I have found a way to integrate the scene from Attack of the Clones in which Anakin vents his grief to Padmé after his mother’s death, without necessarily including any mention of the massacre he committed against the Tusken Raiders.

My idea is quite simple: right after Anakin says, “It is all Obi-Wan’s fault. He is jealous. He is holding me back,” the scene would be cut immediately to the moment when he collapses to the ground and sits down, with Padmé approaching and saying, “To be angry is to be human.” I believe that, with the right cut, it could come across as realistic. This way, it would be possible to preserve the most important part of the scene — namely, Anakin’s desire for omnipotence and his determination to prevent people from dying — without keeping the part where he essentially admits to Padmé that he killed children.

To achieve this, I think the scene would need to be stripped of its original score and rescored entirely. However, I am fairly confident that it is feasible. What do you think?

Post
#1647376
Topic
Religion
Time

Vladius said:

Spartacus01 said:

Vladius said:

Superweapon VII said:

*yawn*

Our concept of hell doesn’t have biblical origins

yawn yeah it does

Can you elaborate?

I’m not going to watch that video but at the very least the title is misleading. Hell comes up in the bible as either Sheol/Hades like the Greek concept as a place for dead spirits, or Gehenna, which is named after a valley in Israel and symbolizes fiery torment and burning. It’s worth noting for all the people here who are fans of sanitized 21st century-friendly hippie Jesus that Christ talks more about hell (Gehenna) than anyone else in the bible.

Of course different Christians have different interpretations of how all this works, who goes to hell, how long it lasts, what the nature of it is, what the difference between Sheol and Gehenna is, etc. but it’s clearly right there in the text. The imagery and the concept of a place of punishment is obviously biblical.

I have not watched the video either, but I am familiar with the arguments of those who claim that the popular concept of Hell is not rooted in biblical tradition. I have always been interested in the history and study of religions, so I am aware of the various interpretations and debates concerning certain concepts and words. I presume that the author of the video — and I repeat, I am saying this without having watched it — does not deny that those terms are used in the Bible. Rather, I believe they argue that the modern Christian interpretation, which associates those terms with the concept of Hell as it is understood in modern popular culture, is not necessarily correct. To be honest, I am not even sure I can completely disagree, considering that Jews, for instance, do not believe in Hell and interpret those terms in a completely different way.

Personally, when it comes to the Old Testament, I tend to agree more with the Jews than with the Christians. After all, the Hebrew Bible was written by the Jews, so I believe it makes more sense to follow their perspective when it comes to vocabulary, lexicon, and the exegesis of Hebrew texts. Of course, I am aware that Judaism is not a monolithic tradition, but there are certain points on which all Jews have always agreed. For instance, 99% of Jews have never believed in the existence of fallen angels, with the exception of a few small messianic sects that existed during the Second Temple period. So again, when it comes to the Old Testament, I prefer to follow Jewish interpretations rather than Christian ones, primarily for a matter of consistency.

Post
#1647323
Topic
The Machete Order Revised
Time

I honestly prefer either the chronological order or the machete order. I really cannot bring myself to watch the Original Trilogy first and then the Prequel Trilogy. To me, one should always end with Return of the Jedi, because the ending of Return of the Jedi is the most satisfying and fulfilling one. If you watch Revenge of the Sith as the final movie but have no desire to rewatch the Original Trilogy immediately afterwards, then you end the Saga on a depressing note. But if you watch Return of the Jedi as the final movie, you have a happy and satisfying ending and can conclude the Saga on a positive note. So again, I prefer either the chronological order or the machete order, as both orders allow you to watch Revenge of the Sith before Return of the Jedi rather than after, and I think it just makes more sense this way.

Post
#1647081
Topic
What Do YOU Think Star Wars Should Do Next?
Time

Personally, I believe that they should have the courage to touch the Old Republic, either with a series of films or with a TV show. As long as the stories are well-written and the characters are relatable, I think that fans would not despise them, even if they are not an exact copy and are not faithful to the original Old Republic stories.

Post
#1646944
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Mocata said:

Yeah but everyone is two decades years older they need to mature and develop critical faculties by now.

Why should “maturing” and “developing critical faculties” coincide with having the same opinions as you on the Prequels? It seems like a rather biased reasoning on your part.

Channel72 said:

In contrast, the popularity of the OT can’t be as easily explained as entirely the result of nostalgia, because the OT films have many devoted fans among the younger generations as well, I assume.

As someone who has had the opportunity to speak with many people who were Star Wars fans during the 1980s and 1990s, I feel compelled to express my disagreement with this statement. After the release of Return of the Jedi, the Original Trilogy practically faded into obscurity. Yes, they were considered very good films, but Star Wars was essentially dead between 1983 and the release of the Special Editions in 1997. Without the Special Editions and the Prequels, Star Wars would have remained nothing more than an old trilogy of 1980s movies. Sure, many people would certainly still love it, but it would never have become the massive franchise it is today. Star Wars would have ended up like Back to the Future — a well-loved series, but not a cultural phenomenon. So yes, objectively speaking, the almost blind devotion to the Original Trilogy that many people exhibit today is primarily a product of the older generation’s nostalgia, because again, between 1983 and 1997, nobody really cared about either the Original Trilogy or Star Wars in general. Had it not been for the Special Editions and the Prequels, Star Wars would be dead right now.

NeverarGreat said:

Perhaps the prequels are uniquely suited to appealing to kids, which is why they are getting more love these days from people who grew up with them, as well as kids today who are seeing them for the first time. If that’s true, then perhaps the only cohort who can’t widely appreciate them are those who were already too old when the films premiered.

I genuinely do not understand where this reasoning comes from. I know many people who watched the Prequels as adults and still appreciated them. Sure, many people consider them inferior to the Original Trilogy, but they certainly do not dismiss them entirely, as many users on this forum tend to do. I, too, watched the Prequels for the first time when I was 18, and I had absolutely no idea that Prequel hate even existed until my sister mentioned it a couple of years later — after I had already seen the films. Even on YouTube, there are countless reaction videos of adults watching the Prequels for the first time and still being able to appreciate them. So I truly do not understand where the idea that “only children who grew up with the Prequels can appreciate them” comes from.

Post
#1645196
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Personally, I do not think The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith are bad movies. I think they are fine, but I also believe they could be improved through fan editing.

I genuinely agree with about 99% of the lore and concepts introduced in the Prequels, and very little actually bothers me on a conceptual level. However, there are undeniably some scenes that feel excessively over the top, and a few others that do not really serve any meaningful purpose and could easily be removed. In my opinion, these films are fine, but they have the potential to become much better with careful and thoughtful editing. This is why I have always wanted to create my own fan edits of the Prequels. Unfortunately, although I did manage to somewhat complete a fan edit of Attack of the Clones with the help of Hal9000, I have never been able to work on edits for the other two films because I have never found anyone else willing to help me with the project.

Furthermore, I am convinced that many of the people who dislike the Prequels are influenced by a specific type of bias. A lot of fans who grew up with the Original Trilogy were disappointed simply because the Prequels did not reflect the backstory they had imagined for Darth Vader. And honestly, that is a very human and understandable reaction. I do not blame anyone for feeling that way. I have experienced the same kind of disappointment myself with other franchises, watching a film I loved and then later seeing a prequel that did not match the version of the past I had built in my head. So in the end, I think that kind of response is entirely valid on an emotional level. But I also believe it is still a form of bias, even if it is a natural and forgivable one.

There is also a similar kind of bias when it comes to specific plot points. I have seen many fans criticize elements such as the creation of the clone army, Anakin’s willingness to believe Palpatine’s lies about cheating death, or the romantic subplot between Anakin and Padmé, claiming that these things do not make sense or feel unrealistic. But personally, I have always been able to rationalize them and find a coherent logic behind those choices. Yes, some scenes are over the top, and the execution of some plot points can definitely be improved through fan-editing. But that does not mean the core ideas behind them are flawed. Many viewers, like myself, are able to accept and even appreciate these plot elements when they are not actively looking for flaws. I think some fans reject these story choices not because they truly make no sense, but because they conflict with the expectations they had developed over the years. Again, that is a very human reaction, and I do not condemn it, but it is still a bias.

In the end, I do not think the Prequels are perfect, but I do believe they are deeply misunderstood. With the right editorial touch, they can be transformed into truly great Star Wars films.

Post
#1643786
Topic
What do you HATE about the EU?
Time

darklordoftech said:

Spartacus01 said:

darklordoftech said:

The BBY/ABY calendar existing in-universe.

Why do you hate it? I do not mind it.

Why would the New Republic establish a new year 0? Isn’t that something totalitarian regimes do? Why not use whatever year 0 the Valorum-era Republic used?

The New Republic did not see itself as just a continuation of the Old Republic; it saw itself as a major improvement, something new and better. The Old Republic, especially in its final years, was bloated, bureaucratic, and too weak to prevent the rise of Palpatine. So from the New Republic’s point of view, there was no reason to go back to that exact model. Therefore, creating a new calendar, with a new Year 0, was a symbolic way of saying, “This is a fresh start.” It helped to draw a clear line between what came before — the corruption of the late Republic, the dark times of the Empire — and what they hoped to build. And if you think about it, choosing their Year 0 around the time of the first real victory against the Empire makes emotional sense too. That moment was not just a military victory; it was the first time in years that people across the galaxy had real hope. From the New Republic’s perspective, that hope was the foundation of everything they were trying to build. So starting a new calendar from that moment sends a message: “This is when things began to change.”

Post
#1638199
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

I was permanently banned from a subreddit and temporarily banned from Reddit for 7 days. And I am pissed off.

So, what happened? Let me break it down for you as simply as possible.

Basically, I posted some comments in a subreddit. Those comments got me banned from that subreddit for seven days. Now, just to be clear, my comments were not hateful, not racist, and not the kind of offensive nonsense that could justifiably get me banned from Reddit altogether. They were just a bit snarky, a little sharp — let’s say they had a bit of an edge to them. And apparently, that was enough to get me banned for “toxicity.”

Fine. I accepted it. No problem.

Now, here is where things took a turn.

Today, while going through my notifications, I noticed one I had not replied to. I clicked on it, and it turned out to be a comment someone had left for me in that same subreddit where I was banned. But this comment was in an entirely different thread, totally unrelated to the discussion that got me banned in the first place.

And then I had a lapsus. For a moment, I completely forgot I had been banned. So I tried to reply to the comment, but the system would not let me. I kept clicking “send,” but my response would not go through.

Now, because of this lapsus, my brain did not make the connection: “Oh, I cannot reply because I am banned.” Instead, I assumed there was some kind of system glitch preventing me from responding.

So, in my infinite wisdom, I thought, “Screw it, I will just make another account and reply from there.” That way, I figured, I could get my response through despite what I assumed was just a Reddit bug.

Well, bad idea.

Shortly after, I got a notification saying: “You attempted to evade a ban, so now you are permanently banned from this subreddit.” And then, about thirty minutes later, I got another notification: “You have been temporarily suspended from Reddit for seven days.”

That is when it hit me: “What the hell did I just do?”

Because I had not actually intended to break the rules. I had not tried to get around the ban on purpose; I had just had a lapsus and completely forgotten I was banned in the first place! When I made that second account, it was not to dodge the ban, but because I genuinely thought there was a technical issue stopping me from replying.

But, well… here we are.

Now I am permanently banned from that subreddit and suspended from Reddit for a week.

Post
#1633099
Topic
UFO's & other anomalies ... do you believe?
Time

Let’s Kill Ufology?

Original Source: https://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2022/09/lets-kill-ufology.html?m=1


by Kevin Randle, published on September 19, 2022

Many years ago, my pal, Rich Reynolds, thought that we geezers in the UFO field should step aside and allow the youngsters to take over. I do not think he phrased it quite that way, but the implication was clear. We had failed to solve the riddle of the flying saucers, so let someone else, with newer ideas, come forward. Maybe they would do better than we had.

Now we have Lue Elizondo, a latecomer to the party, saying that he wanted to kill Ufology so that whatever replaced it might be more holistic and harmonized. He wanted a community that was far more academically serious and representative of the topic. You know, like the To The Stars Academy of Arts and Sciences. Yes, I know that he is no longer associated with it, but then, it certainly was not, exactly, serious and representative of the topic.

What he seems to have missed was that Ufology has always been relegated to the civilian world for any serious investigation. The Air Force spent its time ridiculing the topic, often suggesting that those who see UFOs are not the most reliable of observers, and providing useless answers to high-quality cases.

Oh, you want an example?

In a word, “Levelland.”

Here was a case in which witnesses, who had observed a UFO close to the ground, that stalled their car engines, dimmed their headlights, and filled their radios with static, provided multiple chains of evidence. Sightings lasted for minutes, giving the witness enough time to get a good look at the UFO before it took off in a bright red glow. The craft interacted with the environment, and there are even hints of landing traces having been found. The local sheriff saw the UFO, but if you read the Air Force report, it said that he had only seen a streak of red light in the distance rather than an object. Before the Air Force investigator arrived, he told reporters that he had seen a glowing red object that was oval or football-shaped. After he talked with the Air Force investigator, and according to the Project Blue Book file, he said he had only seen a streak of red light in the distance. Later still, he told Don Berliner that he had seen an object.

Witnesses around the Levelland, Texas, area independently reported the craft, reported the electromagnetic effects, and there were reliable reports of landing traces. The Air Force said that only three people saw the object, and ignored most of the reports of stalled engines. The Air Force concluded that the sightings were the result of ball lightning, even though, at the time, scientists argued about the reality of ball lightning. It does not really matter because ball lightning has been described as never being larger than a foot to two feet in diameter and existing for mere seconds. Witnesses talked of large craft that remained close to them for five or more minutes. The sightings by multiple witnesses lasted for two and a half to three hours in and around the Levelland, Texas, area.

The Air Force did not issue an immediate explanation for the Levelland sightings because they were waiting for NICAP to issue theirs first. The Air Force believed that it was easier to respond to NICAP than it was for them to issue the first report. By waiting, the Air Force was able to change the tone of the discussion from the sightings, to the number of the witnesses to those sightings, and then to lie about those numbers. They claimed that only three witnesses had seen an object, but their own files provide five names, and newspapers, some of the clippings in the Air Force file, reported on many other names.

This was not the only deception by the Air Force related to the sightings in November 1957. James Stokes, an engineer working at Holloman Air Force Base, reported that just days after the Levelland sightings, his car had been stalled by a low-flying UFO near Orogrande, New Mexico, just south of the Air Force base and near the White Sands Missile Range. Stokes also spoke of a slight sunburn effect that reddened his skin. Although the sunburn was seen by others, including the news director at an Alamogordo, New Mexico, radio station, the Air Force investigator, who arrived two days later, did not see the burn. The Air Force officers also made a big deal out of the claim that Stokes was an engineer, saying that there was no record of his graduating with any sort of engineering degree and that he was just a technician assigned to the base. It was a smear designed to reduce Stokes’s credibility by suggesting that he was misrepresenting his job status.

The problem was that the Air Force officers assigned to Holloman AFB, and who knew Stokes, refuted the other Air Force claim. They said that Stokes was an engineer, had been doing the work of a trained engineer for some eighteen months, and was a twenty-year veteran of the Navy. It was an example of the attitude suggesting that if you cannot explain it, then ridicule it. We had two Air Force organizations dueling over Stokes’s qualifications, which, of course, changed the discussion from the reality of the sighting to the credibility of the witness, which was what some in the Air Force wanted anyway.

The point here is that the problem was not the quality of the civilian investigations into UFO sightings, but the government and the Air Force attitude and interference in them. Rather than conduct a real investigation, the Air Force just labeled the cases, smeared the witnesses, and went on about their business as if they had supplied accurate analysis.

There are other examples of this, including the case of the photographs taken by William Rhodes in 1947. I have detailed this on the blog, and you can access some of that information here:

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2010/10/still-more-on-rhodes.html

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2010/10/rhodes-wrap-up.html

I certainly could supply additional examples of these tactics, but after a point, it becomes tedious. For those who wish to read more information about Air Force attempts to smear witnesses, including members of the Air Force, I point you to:

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2014/07/air-force-character-assassination-and.html

Elizondo complains that some self-professed Ufologists (is there really another kind?) on social media have been less than productive. He reminds us that the Intelligence Community and the Defense apparatus watch social media. I’d suggest their time might be better spent engaging those of us who stay away from social media and the nonsense produced there. While Elizondo mentions a “few naughty children… that have decided that no other children are allowed to play in their sandbox…,” I would suggest that these spats, once called flame wars, have little to do with the scientific work being done by those of us associated with the Center for UFO Studies and the recently formed Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies (SCU), which embrace the scientific method and rejects these other spats as counterproductive.

Many of these “spats” are not between members of the UFO community on the side of alien visitation, but are the result of half-truths and lies created by the so-called skeptical community. Philip Klass had a habit of attacking those with whom he disagreed. In the past, I have enumerated some of these allegations. Rather than go into them at length now, you can find the information here:

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2011/09/philip-klass-and-his-letter-writing.html

I would also point out that there are scientific journals that routinely report on UFOs. The Journal of Scientific Exploration, a peer reviewed scientific journal, publishes research into the UFO phenomenon. This is the sort of thing that Elizondo advocates but seemed to know nothing about.

And there is the MADAR system created by Fran Ridge and others. These are stations around the world with sensor arrays that detect and record a wide range of anomalies in the environment. Then, tracking with MUFON and the National UFO Reporting Center, they search for visual observations of UFOs, looking for correlation. Although the results have been slim, there have been some interesting correlations between alerts from the MADAR array and UFO sightings. This brings another level of science to the investigations that provides corroboration for the visual sightings and adds another link in a chain of evidence.

Elizondo wrote that the first place the newcomers go for information about UFOs is social media and that suggests a rather superficial look at UFOs. There are some very good websites and blogs that provide solid and well thought out examinations of the evidence but, of course, there are those that are filled with conjecture, conspiracy, and conflicting data. Shouldn’t anyone interested in the topic seek out multiple sources of information rather than just searching social media? Shouldn’t they be given the opportunity to draw their own conclusions rather than have some suspected and self-appointed authority tell them what the truth is and where to find it?

Elizondo wrote, “Sadly, the UFO Community as of late has become somewhat of an irrational morass of mob rule and popularity seekers. Gone is the respect and decorum, in favor of mosh pit elbow shoves and boot kicks. Voices of those who would otherwise apply a scholarly focus are being drowned out by those social media personalities sensationalizing their efforts as ‘disclosure activists’ in order to generate revenue through viewers and subscribers. Those who seek ‘credit’ instead of cooperation are hijacking the topic for their own enrichment at the expense of genuine truth advocates.”

While I might point out that science is often driven by the same sad motivations, and would point to the Dinosaur Wars of the late 19th and early 20th centuries as but a single example, it would seem that some of these newcomers are driven by the same motivations. Some of these newcomers have engaged the services of agents and public relations specialists for the very purpose of enriching themselves and propelling themselves into the spotlight. Others have used their connections, however indirect those connections might be, to suggest inside information and knowledge as a way of improving their access to media and those important monetary rewards.

I have often wondered, however, why researching and writing about UFOs is about the only field in which it is a sin to profit from hard work. I can name several older UFO researchers who have written books and given presentations about their research to share the information for the purpose of sharing that information. For those who visit my blog, there is no pay wall or donation button. The information is offered freely. But I still wonder why I am criticized for publishing books on the topic when the compensation rarely covers the expenses for gathering the information. I don’t know how many times I have been accused of only being in it for the money, when there are easier and better ways for me to make money such as historical fiction. The accusation is hurled as a way of dismissing my work, and that of many others, without having to do much research into how we gathered the data or what credentials we might hold.

And while Elizondo condemns us for many of the problems in Ufology, I would suggest they grow from the attempts to cover up what is happening. I can point to the CIA-sponsored Robertson Panel from early 1953 as a good example. Their recommendations after their alleged investigation were to debunk the phenomenon, have teachers deny students permission to use UFOs as research projects and reject reports on UFO books. They suggested an “education” program to demystified UFOs so that the public would lose interest all the while knowing that the truth was much more interesting.

We also have had the Air Force sponsored, University of Colorado “Scientific Study” of UFOs, commonly called the Condon Committee. We have the documentation showing that the conclusions were written before the investigation began. Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Robert Hippler wrote to Dr. Robert Low of the committee telling him what the Air Force wanted, that is, there was no national security threat, there was no scientific benefit in continued in the investigation of UFOs, and that the Air Force had done a good job with their investigation. For the next fifty years, science beat us all over the head with the results of this “scientific endeavor” only to learn that it was more anti-UFO propaganda paid for by the US Government and the Air Force. You can learn more about this here:

http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2007/03/hippler-letter.html

Now we learn that “the social media circus of today has challenged the government’s confidence in UFOlogy as a worthy area of study.” I submit that this social media circus might be driven by the government that has worked for 75 years to prove that UFOs do not exist and are not worth the expenditure of government resources. I suggest that the podcasts, YouTube channels, Twitter fees, and Instagram pages are not the problem here, but the decades of ridicule, misinformation and outright lies spread by official government and Air Force sources are the reason that there is the confusion and division that Elizondo condemns as he attempts to propel himself into a leadership role in the UFO community. That ridicule and division was exactly what the Air Force and the government wanted to keep the answers hidden and it has worked for 75 years.

And now we have a bunch of ex-government officials, some with questionable credentials, lecturing us on what is wrong in the world of UFOs. While many of us have been toiling for decades to bring science to UFOs, have written about it, made suggestions about it, and have attempted to apply science, we have the newcomers telling us that we should now embrace science as if we hadn’t thought of that all by ourselves long ago. Well, thanks for the enlightened view of the situation and I’m sure everything will now change… except, of course, the government is again wrapping its investigation in the cloak of national security so that they can bury the information. John Greenewald just reported that the Navy has determined that the majority of the information and video evidence they have gathered is a national security issue and will not be released to the general public anytime soon. This is the same dodge they used for the last 75 years.

But that’s okay, because we have these newcomers who have the answers as they find themselves on the lecture circuit and writing the books, for which they are paid, sometimes quite handsomely, all the while condemning us for writing books and appearing on the lecture circuit. But that’s okay because their motives are pure. We know this because they have told us so.

So, obviously, I find it difficult to read the suggestions made by someone who doesn’t seem to know the history of UFO research. I find it difficult to listen to the suggestion that we embrace science when many of us have done that for years. I wonder just how useful Elizondo’s suggestions are, because they seem to address a symptom of the problem but not the problem itself. The problem isn’t the current state of UFO research, but the interference by government, DoD, and Air Force officials. Had they not attempted to hide the information, we would be having a completely different discussion and we would have “solved” the problem decades ago without the help of the enlightened newcomers.

Post
#1632987
Topic
UFO's & other anomalies ... do you believe?
Time

On February 5, 1947, months before Kenneth Arnold’s sighting, a very similar formation of high-speed egg-shaped objects was seen by multiple witnesses in Australia

by Spartacus01

FEBRUARY 5, 1947, AUSTRALIA

February 5, 1947 – The Advertiser – Adelaide, South Australia, Australia – Page 1
Strange Objects Reported in Sky
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-advertiser-strange-objects-reported/175455362/

Alternative link: https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/3511159

Based on accounts from three witnesses, this article describes the sighting of five “quivering” egg-shaped objects. The objects were flying in formation across the sky and disappeared “within a few seconds.” One witness estimated the size of the objects as comparable to a locomotive, judging by their shadows. The sighting occurred on February 5, and reports started appearing in newspapers the following day.

Here is the same story zoomed out, with the date clearly visible on the newspaper:
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-advertiser-the-advertiser-feb-07/175455485/

A letter to the editor from G.F. Dodwell, government astronomer at the Adelaide Observatory, dismissed the possibility that the sighting might have been caused by a mirage:
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-advertiser-strange-objects/174279212/

This sighting did not seem to attract much attention from the UFO community, but it was discussed in a blog post back in 2011:
https://ufos-scientificresearch.blogspot.com/2011/01/cold-case-port-augusta-5-february-1947.html

The blog points out that an additional witness separately reported seeing a similar group of five objects on February 5, though this account was only reported two weeks later. This time, the objects were described as “oblong with narrow points”:

February 20, 1947 – Quorn Mercury – Quorn, South Australia, Australia – Page 3
Objects in Sky Seen at Lock
https://www.newspapers.com/article/quorn-mercury-objects-in-sky-seen-at-loc/175456236/

JUNE 24, 1947, THE KENNETH ARNOLD SIGHTING

I will focus solely on Arnold’s original description. Since memory can fade over time, I will disregard Arnold’s later recollections and concentrate on what he described in the days and weeks immediately following the sighting.

Arnold’s original drawing submitted to the Army:
https://imgur.com/a/ETRrFB1

Audio recording of Arnold’s description:
http://www.konsulting.com/K-Arnold Layer-3.WAV

Arnold verbally described the shape as similar to a pie pan cut in half, with a triangle added to the rear. This means the object was roughly round overall, but one side was pointed. His drawing shows a roughly round object with a more triangular back half that ended in a rounded blunt tip. Arnold initially estimated the speed at about 1,800 miles per hour, but conservatively reduced it by one-third to 1,200 miles per hour. The sighting involved a formation of nine objects. He described their movement as similar to a rock skipping across water, with the objects sometimes flipping on their sides like fish.

THE FRED M. JOHNSON SIGHTING, JUNE 24, 1947 (REPORTED TO THE AIR FORCE IN AUGUST 1947)

An interesting lesser-known fact is that another witness, a prospector from Portland, claimed to have seen the same objects that Kenneth Arnold observed on June 24. Although the orientation was reversed, the report is otherwise quite similar.

Letter from prospector Fred M. Johnson to Headquarters, Fourth Air Force, reporting his “flying disc” sighting:
https://www.project1947.com/fig/johns47.htm

And I saw the same flying objects at about the same time. Having a telescope with me at the time, I can assure you they are real and nothing like them I ever saw before. They did not pass very high over where I was standing at the time. [They were] probably 1,000 feet [altitude], they were round, about 30 feet in diameter tapering sharply to a point in the lead end in an oval shape, with a bright top surface. I did not hear any noise as you would from a plane. But there was an object in the tail and looked like a big hand of a clock shifting from side to side like a big magnet. Their speed, as far as I know, seemed to be greater than anything I ever saw. Last view I got of the objects they were standing on edge banking in a cloud.

Johnson also noted that his compass fluctuated wildly during the sighting. You can read the Project Blue Book report on Johnson’s sighting on pages 600–604. The report classified it as unidentified, though it expressed skepticism that any aerial object could cause magnetic disturbances strong enough to affect a compass from such a distance:
https://archive.org/details/roll1_BlueBook_nara/page/n599/mode/2up

ANALYSIS

Comparing Arnold’s sighting to the February 5, 1947 sighting, both reports mention the objects maintaining a steady altitude and flying in formation. The February sighting involved five objects instead of nine. Both accounts describe roughly round objects that are pointier on one end. In both, the objects were described as moving oddly.

The objects seen on February 5 must have been moving extremely fast to vanish from sight in just a few seconds. If the witnesses were even close to correct in estimating their altitude, these things were traveling at incredible speeds. To put it in perspective, imagine the objects were only 1,000 feet above the ground — a very low and conservative estimate — and let us say they were visible for about 20 seconds as they crossed the sky from one end to the other. Even under those generous assumptions, they would have been flying at around 14,000 miles per hour. Compared to that, Kenneth Arnold’s sighting, where he estimated the objects at about 1,200 miles per hour, seems much less extreme. Still, despite the difference in speed, the two sightings share a lot of striking similarities.

As for the belated witness for Arnold’s sighting, and the belated witness for the sighting in February, both later reports recalled the objects as tapering to a sharper point. I would assume that the original reports, reported a day after the sighting, were probably more accurate than belated reports two weeks later and two months later, but they are all still quite similar, all things considered. One possibility: due to the angle they are viewed at, the same object could appear wider or thinner.

I am confident that the February sighting was discussed somewhere within the UFO community before 2011, but I found no evidence of it being mentioned anywhere in 1947. It seems likely that Arnold was unaware of this sighting since it happened on the opposite side of the globe months before the “flying saucer” craze in the U.S. It appears to have been overlooked, but it could serve as useful corroboration and a reference point for what Arnold’s objects probably looked like, especially if his original description did not convince everyone.

Post
#1631940
Topic
UFO's & other anomalies ... do you believe?
Time

Majestic Twelve: One of the Greatest Hoaxes in the History of UFOlogy

As evidence that the Roswell incident was the result of the crash of an alien craft, many UFO enthusiasts and Roswell believers often cite the so-called “Majestic Twelve” documents. The history of these documents is complex and multifaceted. Since no one has ever attempted to write a single, unified post containing all the available information about them, I thought that it would have been worthwhile to do so myself. In my opinion, it is important for people who are new to this topic to have a comprehensive reference. Therefore, I will write a single essay, explaining how the documents came into the hands of UFO researchers, what is their content, and why I believe they should be regarded as a hoax.

There are many documents associated with Majestic Twelve. Some of these documents were allegedly leaked in the early 1980s, while others were supposedly leaked in the 1990s and sent to UFO researcher Timothy Cooper. This essay will focus exclusively on the original Majestic Twelve documents that surfaced in the early 1980s. These early documents are the only ones worth discussing in detail, because they were the first to introduce the concept of Majestic Twelve and the entire lore surrounding it. Proving that the first documents to reference Majestic Twelve are forgeries would mean proving that the very name “Majestic Twelve” itself is a fabrication. Which, in turn, would automatically demonstrate that all subsequent documents referencing Majestic Twelve are fraudulent as well.

Furthermore, it is important to note that the documents sent to Timothy Cooper have never been considered authentic by UFO researchers. Even Stanton Friedman, one of the most vocal advocates of the authenticity of the original 1980s documents, firmly rejected the Cooper documents. In fact, in his pro-Majestic Twelve book Top Secret/Magic,, Friedman devoted several chapters to systematically debunking the documents Cooper received. For this reason, not only is it unnecessary to examine the 1990s documents in detail, but it is also reasonable to assert that their fate is inextricably tied to that of the original documents. If the 1980s documents are discredited, then the entire narrative built upon them inevitably falls apart.

THE HISTORY OF THE DOCUMENTS

The Majestic Twelve documents first appeared in December 1984, when a package with no return address and a postmark from Albuquerque, New Mexico, arrived at the residence of television producer Jamie Shandera in North Hollywood, California. The package contained a roll of 35mm film. When developed, the film revealed a classified memo dated September 24, 1947, in which President Harry S. Truman authorized the creation of “Operation Majestic Twelve.” It also contained a document dated November 18, 1952, which purported to be a briefing document written by Vice Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter and destined to President-elect Dwight D. Eisenhower. The document outlined the nature and purpose of Operation Majestic Twelve, describing the Roswell crash and other related events. The text of the Eisenhower Briefing Document is reported below:

Operation Majestic-12 is a top-secret research and development/intelligence operation responsible directly and only to the President of the United States. Operations of the project are carried out under the control of the Majestic-12 (Majic-12) Group, which was established by a special classified executive order of President Truman on 24 September 1947, upon the recommendation of Dr. Vannevar Bush and Secretary James Forrestal.

Members of the Majestic-12 Group were designated as follows:

  • Adm. Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter
  • Dr. Vannevar Bush
  • Secy. James V. Forrestal
  • Gen. Nathan P. Twining
  • Gen. Hoyt S. Vandenberg
  • Dr. Detlev Bronk
  • Dr. Jerome Hunsaker
  • Mr. Sidney W. Souers
  • Mr. Gordon Gray
  • Dr. Donald Menzel
  • Gen. Robert M. Montague
  • Dr. Lloyd V. Berkner

The death of Secretary Forrestal on 22 May, 1949, created a vacancy which remained unfilled until 01 August, 1950, upon which date Gen. Walter B. Smith was designated as permanent replacement.

On 24 June, 1947, a civilian pilot flying over the Cascade Mountains in the State of Washington observed nine flying disc-shaped aircraft traveling in formation at a high rate of speed. Although this was not the first known sighting of such objects, it was the first to gain widespread attention in the public media. Hundreds of reports of sightings of similar objects followed. Many of these came from highly credible military and civilian sources. These reports resulted in independent efforts by several different elements of the military to ascertain the nature and purpose of these objects in the interests of national defense.

A number of witnesses were interviewed and there were several unsuccessful attempts to utilize aircraft in efforts to pursue reported discs in flight. Public reaction bordered on near hysteria at times. In spite of these efforts, little of substance was learned about the objects until a local rancher reported that one had crashed in a remote region of New Mexico located approximately seventy-five miles northwest of Roswell Army Air Base (now Walker Field).

On 07 July, 1947, a secret operation was begun to assure recovery of the wreckage of this object for scientific study. During the course of this operation, aerial reconnaissance discovered that four small human-like beings had apparently ejected from the craft at some point before it exploded. These had fallen to Earth about two miles east of the wreckage site. All four were dead and badly decomposed due to action by predators and exposure to the elements during the approximately one week time period which had elapsed before their discovery. A special scientific team took charge of removing these bodies for study. The wreckage of the craft was also removed to several different locations. Civilian and military witnesses in the area were debriefed, and news reporters were given the effective cover story that the object had been a misguided weather research balloon.

A covert analytical effort organized by Gen. Twining and Dr. Bush acting on the direct orders of the President, resulted in a preliminary consensus (19 September, 1947) that the disc was most likely a short range reconnaissance craft. This conclusion was based for the most part on the craft’s size and the apparent lack of any identifiable provisioning.

A similar analysis of the four dead occupants was arranged by Dr. Bronk. It was the tentative conclusions of this group (30 November, 1947) that although these creatures are human-like in appearance, the biological and evolutionary processes responsible for their development has apparently been quite different from those observed or postulated in homo-sapiens. Dr. Bronk’s team has suggested the term “Extraterrestrial Biological Entities”, or “EBE’s”, be adopted as the standard term of reference for these creatures until such time as a more definitive designation can be agreed upon.

Since it is virtually certain that these craft do not originate in any country on earth, considerable speculation has centered around what their point of origin might be and how they get here. Mars was and remains a possibility, although some scientists, most notably Dr. Menzel, consider it more likely that we are dealing with beings from another solar system entirely.

Numerous examples of what appear to be a form of writing were found in the wreckage. Efforts to decipher these have remained largely unsuccessful.

Equally unsuccessful have been efforts to determine the method of propulsion or the nature or method of transmission of the power source involved. Research along these lines has been complicated by the complete absence of identifiable wings, propellers, jets, or other conventional methods of propulsion and guidance, as well as a total lack of metallic wiring, vacuum tubes, or similar recognizable electronic components. It is assumed that the propulsion unit was completely destroyed by the explosion which caused the crash.>
A need for as much additional information as possible about these craft, their performance characteristics and their purpose led to the undertaking known as U.S. Air Force Project Sign in December, 1947. In order to preserve security, liaison between Sign and Majestic-12 was limited to two individuals within the Intelligence Division of Air Material Command whose role was to pass along certain types of information through channels. Sign evolved into Project Grudge in December, 1948. The operation is currently being conducted under the code name Blue Book, with liaison maintained through the Air Force officer who is head of the project.

On 06 December, 1950, a second object, probably of similar origin, impacted the earth at high speed in the El Indio-Guerrero area of the Texas-Mexican border after following a long trajectory through the atmosphere. By the time a search team arrived, what remained of the object had been almost totally incinerated. Such material as could be recovered was transported to the A.E.C. facility at Sandia, New Mexico, for study.

Implications for the National Security are of continuing importance in that the motives and ultimate intentions of these visitors remain completely unknown. In addition, a significant upsurge in the surveillance activity of these craft beginning in May and continuing through the autumn of this year has caused considerable concern that new developments may be imminent. It is for these reasons, as well as the obvious international and technological considerations and the ultimate need to avoid a public panic at all costs, that the Majestic-12 Group remains of the unanimous opinion that imposition of the strictest security precautions should continue without interruption into the new administration. At the same time, contingency plan MJ-1949-04P/78 (Top Secret - Eyes Only) should be held in continued readiness should the need to make a public announcement present itself.

Although the envelope bore no name or identifying marks, Shandera presumed that the package had been delivered by his friend William Moore, a prominent UFO researcher and the co-author of the very first book about the Roswell crash, titled The Roswell Incident. However, when Shandera showed him the envelope, Moore denied having seen it before. Nevertheless, when Moore had the opportunity to read the Eisenhower Briefing Document, he quickly discerned a connection between the document and his own Roswell research. After receiving both the Truman-Forrestal Memo and the Eisenhower Briefing Document, Moore and Shandera, together with Stanton Friedman, embarked on a meticulous effort to determine the authenticity of the documents and validate their content. This endeavor involved extensive research and fact-checking, which led them to spend significant time at the National Archives, combing through government records and declassified materials. Their goal was to uncover any circumstantial evidence or corroborating details that could indicate the authenticity of both documents.

In March 1985, Stanton Friedman visited the National Archives during a trip to Washington, D.C. While there, Friedman was informed that Air Force intelligence files were undergoing a classification review, which might yield information related to UFO phenomena. This promising lead prompted a return visit in July 1985 by Moore and Shandera, who meticulously searched through the records identified as Entry 267 of Air Force Record Group 341. After painstakingly reviewing over 120 boxes of documents, Shandera stumbled upon a peculiar memo dated 14 July 1954, addressed to General Nathan Twining and signed by Robert Cutler, then Special Assistant to President Eisenhower. This memo, known as the “Cutler-Twining Memo,” stated:

"The President has decided that the MJ-12 SSP briefing should take place during the already scheduled White House meeting of July 16, rather than following it as previously intended.”

The document was an administrative note, devoid of substantive details, but its reference to "MJ-12 " was groundbreaking. The memo was typed on onionskin paper with a watermark and bore a red pencil mark through its security classification, consistent with archival practices for declassified materials. The discovery provided the first tangible link to the existence of Majestic Twelve.

Following this significant find, Moore, Shandera, and Friedman undertook further efforts to authenticate the Cutler-Twining Memo. By 1987, Moore, Shandera, and Friedman had gathered enough evidence to confidently present their findings, and decided to officially and publicly release the documents in a press conference. The release ignited intense debate within the UFO research community and the broader public. Some researchers hailed the documents as conclusive evidence of extraterrestrial visitation, while others questioned their authenticity, claiming that Moore and Shandera were the perpetrators of a hoax.

THE AQUARIUS DOCUMENT AND “MJ-TWELVE”

Contrary to what one might think, the first mention of Majestic Twelve does not come from the Truman-Forrestal Memo or the Eisenhower Briefing Document, but rather from a 1981 teletype, commonly referred to as the “Aquarius Document.” However, in order to understand the history of the Aquarius Document, one must first thoroughly understand the history of the Bennewitz affair. The Bennewitz affair has a very complicated history, but I will attempt to summarize it as clearly and comprehensively as possible.

In December 1979, Paul Bennewitz, a physicist and businessman from Albuquerque, began observing, photographing, and filming unidentified flying objects over the Manzano Weapons Storage Area, a highly sensitive nuclear weapons depot located just east of Kirtland Air Force Base and directly bordering his neighborhood of Four Hills. Concerned by what he had witnessed, Bennewitz reported his observations to various authorities, including the Air Force, members of the UFO research community, and even the media.

Because the presence of unidentified flying objects over a nuclear weapons site posed a potentially serious issue for national security, the Air Force feared that Bennewitz’s claims might attract unwanted scrutiny. Rather than addressing the situation openly, they launched a covert effort to discredit him. The goal was to feed him sensational and exaggerated information so that he would disseminate it and, as a result, come across as unreliable and unstable. This, in turn, would ensure that no one would take anything he said seriously, and people would entirely disregard — if not outright dismiss — the genuine UFO sightings he had reported in December 1979.

In early 1980, the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI) assigned Special Agent Richard C. Doty to the Bennewitz case. Doty was instructed to establish contact with Bennewitz and lead a carefully orchestrated disinformation campaign. This effort began almost immediately after the Air Force learned of Bennewitz’s initial reports. Soon after Doty’s involvement began, Bennewitz started receiving strange electronic signals at his home. These transmissions, which were engineered and transmitted by the Air Force itself, contained intelligible messages that Bennewitz interpreted as communications from the occupants of the UFOs he had seen. The messages conveyed claims such as “the number of our crashed saucers is eight,” “our race is dying on home planet,” and “women of Earth are needed.” Convinced that these transmissions were authentic, Bennewitz came to believe that an alien presence was operating near the base and attempting to contact him directly.

In 1981, Doty approached William Moore — a prominent UFO researcher — and recruited him into the operation. According to what Moore himself admitted later, the Air Force — through Doty — offered him a deal: if he collaborated with them in managing the Bennewitz affair, spied on other UFO researchers, and spread disinformation on their behalf, they would grant him access to classified documents about UFOs. Moore accepted the deal and began working with the Air Force.

Through Doty and Moore, the Air Force gradually convinced Bennewitz that he was on the brink of discovering a large alien plot to conquer the planet. According to the narrative they constructed, the signals he was tracking were linked to the activities of the so-called “Greys,” small humanoid beings who, he was told, came from the double star system of Zeta Reticuli. Bennewitz was led to believe that these extraterrestrials were operating from a concealed base deep within Mount Archuleta, near the town of Dulce, New Mexico. To reinforce his beliefs, the Air Force installed fake ventilation shafts on the mountain and airlifted old storage tanks, jeeps, and equipment shacks to remote locations around Dulce, creating the illusion of an underground facility. Bennewitz was persuaded that the Greys stationed within the base were responsible for the cattle mutilations that had been reported in the area and that they were conducting horrific experiments on human prisoners, implanting devices that would allow them to control and monitor their test subjects.

The deception had a profound impact on Bennewitz. He began conducting frequent aerial surveys of Mount Archuleta, searching for evidence of the supposed alien base. During one of these flights, he discovered a site that appeared to be the scene of a crash. Seeing an opportunity, the Air Force reinforced his belief in an alien presence by feeding him further disinformation, this time suggesting that the crashed object was a nuclear-powered craft — an experimental vehicle allegedly built through the reverse-engineering of alien technology. As the operation became more complex, Bennewitz was further misled to believe that the Greys had established a clandestine pact with the U.S. government. This alleged agreement, he was told, granted the aliens permission to abduct American citizens for medical experimentation in exchange for providing advanced technology to the government. He was also persuaded to believe that the aliens had later broken the treaty, leading to a violent underground battle between the U.S. military and the Greys stationed within the Dulce Base. According to the story, the nuclear-powered craft that had crashed on Mount Archuleta had been shot down by the aliens during this conflict.

Over time, the sustained stress and anxiety took a severe toll on Bennewitz’s mental health. His growing paranoia led him to suspect that his own wife had been implanted with an alien device, and that extraterrestrials were entering his home at night to inject him with unknown substances. He eventually suffered a breakdown in 1988 and was hospitalized for several months. Tragically, his mental health never fully recovered, and he passed away in 2003.

As UFO researcher Robert Hastings eloquently explained in a letter to Robert J. Durant dated October 2005:

Despite Richard Doty’s recent public “explanation” regarding the reasons for the campaign against Paul Bennewitz, I am of the opinion that Bennewitz may have actually photographed and filmed bona fide UFOs over the Manzano Weapons Storage Area, which is located just east of Kirtland Air Force Base. It was this nuclear weapons depot, now decommissioned, which directly bordered Bennewitz’s subdivision, Four Hills. If you are familiar with some of the nuclear weapons-related UFO sightings — including those at intercontinental ballistic missile sites and weapons research laboratories — then you may also be aware that a few of those sightings have occurred at Weapons Storage Areas.
In view of these facts [about other UFO sightings at various Weapons Storage Areas], I have suggested the following scenario to other researchers: Bennewitz — a reputable businessman whose company held contracts to supply engineering components to various government agencies — photographed bona fide UFOs above the Manzano Weapons Storage Area and then talked about it to anyone who would listen, including the Air Force, ufologists, and the media. Because nuclear weapons-related UFO incidents were — and are — extremely sensitive, a decision was made by the Air Force to undermine Bennewitz’s credibility. Consequently, the Office of Special Investigations at Kirtland Air Force Base formulated a disinformation scheme whereby the talkative Bennewitz would be provided with outrageous stories of alien visitations at Kirtland, underground alien bases in the Southwest, secret U.S.-alien treaties, and all the rest of it.
Once this “inside information” had been passed along to others by the increasingly paranoid Bennewitz, the legitimate media — as well as the more rational members of ufology — would quickly lose interest in his claims, leaving only the most gullible to “oooh” and “ahhh” at these amazing “revelations.” The net result? The initial, bona fide UFO sightings at a highly sensitive nuclear weapons facility got lost in all of the hoopla and were only rarely, if ever, mentioned in the articles and news stories about Bennewitz’s claims.

If you want a comprehensive overview of the Bennewitz case, I highly recommend you to read Project Beta by Greg Bishop and X Descending by Christian Lambright. These books provide an in-depth analysis of the events, how they unfolded, and their implications.

You might wonder: what does the Aquarius Document have to do with the Bennewitz case? And the answer is: the Aquarius Document is one of the forged papers handed to Bennewitz by the Air Force. Specifically, Doty gave it to Moore, who then passed it on to Bennewitz. Of particular significance is a line within the document that marks, in essence, the very first mention of Majestic Twelve. This pivotal sentence appears near the end of the document and is quoted below:

Results of Project Aquarius are still classified Top Secret with no dissemination outside official Intelligence channels, and with restricted access to MJ-Twelve.

This sentence is extremely important, because the Aquarius Document was handed to Bennewitz in March 1981, three years before the Eisenhower Briefing Document and the Truman-Forrestal Memo arrived at Shandera’s house. It resets the clock on these matters, and suggests that Moore had seen a reference to MJ-Twelve in 1981, which is something that has now disappeared from the discussion of the Majestic Twelve documents.

LINDA HOWE AND MAJESTIC TWELVE

In early 1983, Linda Howe — hot off the success of her regional Emmy Award-winning documentary on cattle mutilations, A Strange Harvest — had been tapped to produce an HBO special with the proposed title of UFOs: The E.T. Factor. On April 9, 1983, Howe met with Richard Doty at Kirtland Air Force Base, an incident that seems lifted straight out of a spy novel. As Howe recounted in An Alien Harvest:

I sat down with my back to the windows. [Doty] sat behind the desk. “You know you upset some people in Washington with your film, A Strange Harvest. It came too close to something we don’t want the public to know about.” That began a brief discussion about my documentary. I asked him why extraterrestrials were mutilating animals. Richard Doty said that the subject was classified beyond his need to know. He told me I had been monitored while I was making the film. […]
[Doty] reached with his left hand to a drawer on the left side of the desk and opened it. He pulled from the drawer a brown envelope. He opened it and took out several standard letter sized sheets of white paper. "My superiors have asked me to show this to you,“ he said, handing me the pages. “You can read these and you can ask me questions, but you can’t take any notes.” I took the papers and I read the top page. It was entitled “Briefing Paper for the President of the United States of America” on the subject of unidentified aerial craft or vehicles.
Richard Doty then stood up and said, “I want you to move from there.” He motioned me toward the large chair in the middle of the room. “Eyes can see through windows.” I got up and moved to the big chair, confused. I didn’t know what was happening. As I looked at the pages in my lap a second time, I wondered why he was showing them to me. I was very uncomfortable, but I wanted to read and remember every word…

The documents given to Linda Howe detailed four distinct saucer crashes that were said to have occurred in Roswell, Aztec, Kingman, and Mexico. The Roswell incident reportedly involved a lone survivor referred to as “EBE,” an acronym for Extraterrestrial Biological Entity. EBE was described as being four feet tall, with gray skin and no hair, possessing a large head and prominent eyes that were likened to those of a child, though he was said to have the intellect of “a thousand men.” EBE was allegedly held captive at the Los Alamos Laboratories until his death in 1952.

According to Howe, the documents stated that Project Blue Book was a public relations operation that was supposed to divert attention from the real investigative projects. In his conversations with Howe, Doty mentioned MJ-12, but suggested “MJ” stood for “Majority” rather than “Majestic.” Whatever the real name, it was a committee of twelve high ranking government officials, scientists, and military officers who set the policy for the cover-up and the dissemination of disinformation about UFOs and government interest in them.

One of the documents claimed that extraterrestrials had, approximately two thousand years ago, created a being who was placed on Earth to teach humanity about peace and love, a reference that strongly implied a connection to Jesus Christ. According to the documents, after EBE’s death, other extraterrestrials, identified as EBE-2 and EBE-3, arrived on Earth as part of an exchange program. Doty informed Howe that EBE-3 was still alive and indicated that she might have an opportunity to interview him. Furthermore, Doty claimed that high-level intelligence officers were in possession of classified materials, including film footage of a UFO landing at a military base and other photographs, which he suggested could be used for Howe’s documentary. He assured her that he would contact her in the future using the code name “Falcon.”

Several months later, however, Doty told Howe that he had been removed from the case and referred her to other intelligence contacts. These individuals also delayed providing the promised materials, continuing to string her along for many more months. Ultimately, the prolonged delays led HBO to withdraw from the project, leaving Howe without the necessary resources to proceed with her documentary.

This information is significant, as it strongly suggests that Doty had a deep and deliberate involvement in the creation of what would later become the Eisenhower Briefing Document. In fact, the documents that were shown to Linda Howe contained a great deal of the same content that would eventually appear in the Eisenhower Document. For example, the acronym “EBE” can be found in both documents. Similarly, the document that was shown to Linda Howe referenced a UFO crash that allegedly happened in Mexico. This crash is a clear allusion to the so-called “Del Rio crash,” which the Eisenhower Document specifically places near the border between Mexico and Texas, in the El Indio-Guerrero region. Therefore, just like with the Aquarius Document, we are faced with a situation where information that would later appear in the Eisenhower Document had already surfaced before that document was ever sent to Shandera. Which, much like in the case of the Aquarius Document, resets the clock on these matters.

75 MILES? NO, 62 MILES

In both Brad Sparks and Barry Greenwood’s paper, The Secret Pratt Tapes and the Origins of MJ-12, and later in an article adapted from the paper and published in the MUFON Journal under the by-line of Brad Sparks, there is a discussion of what they regard as a fatal error in the Eisenhower Briefing Document.

To explain what they mean by a “fatal error,” they quote Stanton Friedman, who had stated that one way to determine whether “the document is a phony is on the basis of any mistaken information in it.” Both William Moore and Jaime Shandera echoed this concern at various times by suggesting the same principle. Erroneous information in a document strongly indicates that it has been forged. All of them, including Sparks and Greenwood, argue that such fatal errors would demonstrate that the Eisenhower Document, at best, constituted disinformation and, at worst, was a hoax designed to divert attention from more significant areas of research.

The error identified by Sparks and Greenwood in the Eisenhower Briefing Document pertains to the distance to the debris field near Corona, New Mexico, which is so significantly inaccurate that they consider it a major flaw. Brad Sparks asserted that “the Eisenhower Document wrongly claimed that the Roswell crash site, which refers to the Mack Brazel debris field, was approximately 75 miles from the Roswell base, when in fact it was only 62 miles away.” He has been highlighting this error since 1987. Sparks calculated the actual distance to be 62 air miles, while the distance by road exceeds 100 miles, further emphasizing that the 75-mile figure mentioned in the Eisenhower Document is incorrect. Such an error, even over something as minor as the distances involved, should throw the entire document into question, because those creating such a report for review by a president would not commit an error of this nature.

Sparks suggested that the 75 mile figure originates from The Roswell Incident, published by William Moore and Charles Berlitz in 1980. It is, at best, an estimate that is not based on the facts that should have been available to an aviation unit. Their navigation needed to be precise, and even a miniscule error made at the beginning of a flight could result in missing the destination by dozens of miles. The staff of Roswell Army Air Field would have known the precise distance to the Brazel debris field, and this information should have been reflected in the Eisenhower Document.

A MAJOR FLAW

As previously mentioned, the Eisenhower Briefing Document refers to two UFO crashes: the Roswell incident and another crash that allegedly occurred on December 6, 1950, in the El Indio-Guerrero area near the Texas-Mexico border. This second crash is relatively obscure, but its inclusion in the document is significant, as it serves as additional evidence that the document is not genuine.

In fact, the story came to light in the late 1970s through the efforts of W. Todd Zechel, a UFO researcher who claimed to have discovered a 1968 newspaper article referencing a UFO crash. Building upon this vague lead, Zechel contacted Robert B. Willingham, who described himself as a retired Air Force colonel. In 1977, Willingham signed an affidavit in which he recounted visiting the crash site, observing unusual debris, and even recovering a piece of metal that he described as having a honeycomb-like structure and being resistant to extremely high temperatures.

However, as the years passed, Willingham’s story began to change in significant ways. Initially, he claimed that the crash occurred in 1948, while he was flying an F-94 jet along the Texas-Mexico border. He stated that he had been alerted to a UFO on radar and that the object subsequently crashed south of the border. Over time, the date shifted multiple times, with Willingham later asserting that the event took place on December 6, 1950, then in 1954, and finally in 1955. The location of the crash also changed, moving from the El Indio-Guerrero area to a site closer to Del Rio, Texas, and eventually to a region south of Lantry, Texas.

Willingham’s credibility was definitively undermined when various researchers started looking into his background. While he presented himself as a retired Air Force colonel, investigators discovered that he had never served in the Air Force at all. Instead, he had been a member of the Civil Air Patrol (CAP), a civilian auxiliary of the Air Force, where he held the rank of lieutenant colonel. His military record showed that he enlisted in the Army in December 1945, achieved the rank of E4, and was discharged in January 1947. Furthermore, no evidence has ever surfaced to corroborate his claims, and no additional witnesses have come forward to support his account.

Since the story of the Del Rio UFO crash relies entirely on Willingham’s testimony, and since Willingham has proven to be an unreliable witness, it is clear that there was never any UFO crash in Del Rio. This, in turn, means that the inclusion of this alleged UFO crash in the Eisenhower Document represents a significant flaw. An authentic presidential briefing document written in 1952 cannot, by definition, include a demonstrably false story that was created in the 1970s. Therefore, the inclusion of the Del Rio UFO crash in the Eisenhower Document proves that the document was not created in 1952.

THE SMOKING GUN

A significant controversy surrounding the Majestic Twelve documents concerns the unusual date formatting they exhibit, which appears inconsistent with the standard practices employed by the United States government during the late 1940s and early 1950s. During that period, government documents typically used a specific date style: the day written as a number, followed by the fully spelled-out name of the month, and concluded by the complete year written numerically (e.g., “2 March 1948”). Although, on rare occasions, a comma might appear after the month, this was exceedingly uncommon. In one examined sample of 600 pages, only three instances of this anomaly were identified, all originating from a single individual in Air Force Intelligence.

Philip Klass, a well-known UFO skeptic, drew attention to the fact that the Eisenhower Briefing Document deviated from this conventional style. He highlighted that it not only included an additional, uncommon comma after the month but also added a leading zero before single-digit dates (e.g., “07 July, 1947”). Klass noted that such formatting was absent from authentic government documents of the time, but was present in the personal writings of William Moore. Consequently, critics raised the question of whether Moore had been involved in the creation of the Majestic Twelve documents.

In 1990, Barry Greenwood received a letter from Jun-Ichi Takanashi, a respected UFO researcher who has since passed away. In this letter, Takanashi claimed to have discovered five government documents concerning Green Fireballs that exhibited the same peculiar date formatting as the Majestic Twelve documents. Green Fireballs were mysterious luminous objects reported in the late 1940s and early 1950s, often seen streaking across the skies near sensitive military installations, particularly in New Mexico. Some researchers speculated that these phenomena might have been related to classified military projects, while others suggested a possible extraterrestrial origin.

Initially, Greenwood considered the possibility that the dating style in the Majestic Twelve documents might have genuinely been used by the government. However, Takanashi made an important observation. He noted that out of the five documents he had examined, only one appeared to be a direct copy of an original government document. The other four had been retyped, presumably for better readability, and all of these retyped documents were included in William Moore’s 1983 publication, The Mystery of the Green Fireballs. Recognizing the need to verify the authenticity of these documents, Greenwood embarked on a thorough investigation. He located the original versions of the retyped documents in the Project Blue Book microfilms stored at the National Archives, specifically in Roll 88, which contained the OSI Chronological Files. Upon comparison, Greenwood discovered that Moore had modified the date formatting during the retyping process. Moore consistently added the uncommon comma after the month and, in one instance, inserted a leading zero before a single-digit date that had not existed in the original document (e.g., “9 February 1949” became “09 February, 1949”).

It became evident that Moore had a habit of retyping government documents to improve their legibility. However, in doing so, he inadvertently introduced his distinctive style of date formatting into these reproductions. Moore referred to these retyped documents as "faithful reproductions” in his publication, but the alterations in date formatting created a strong resemblance between these documents and the Majestic Twelve documents. Which, in my opinion, definitively proves that the Eisenhower Briefing Document, the Truman-Forrestal Memo, and the Cutler-Twining Memo were fabricated by Richard Doty with the assistance of William Moore, whose consistent use of this unusual date formatting across his personal writings implicated him in the creation of the documents.

CONCLUSIONS

After thoroughly examining all available evidence, I believe the case against the authenticity of the Majestic Twelve documents is overwhelming. The internal inconsistencies, factual errors, and peculiar stylistic choices, combined with their suspicious origin and connection to known disinformation agents such as Richard Doty, leave little room for doubt. These documents are not genuine, and there is every indication that the Air Force Office of Special Investigations had a hand in creating them. They had the means, the motive, and the right people to pull something like this off. The way they handled the Bennewitz affair proves that this kind of disinformation campaign was well within their playbook.

So why would they do it? Most likely to push and reinforce the idea that an alien spacecraft had crashed at Roswell. By putting out a dramatic story about UFO crashes, dead alien bodies, and secret recovery teams, they managed to hijack the conversation. Instead of asking the right questions or following more credible leads, researchers got pulled into chasing after this made-up narrative. Spreading a flashy, attention-grabbing story about flying saucer crashes and secret committees reverse-engineering alien technology can be a great way to confuse the public and distract UFO researchers from a more worthwhile avenue of investigation. In the end, the MJ Twelve documents did exactly that. They created confusion, divided researchers, and polluted the whole topic with noise.

From now on, whenever you come across a reference to Majestic Twelve, think of Richard Doty, of Paul Bennewitz, of the Air Force. And every time you see someone mentioning Majestic Twelve, send a link to this post. It is important for people to know where this story originated from, and why it should die, once and for all.

MY SOURCES

  • Top Secret/Magic by Stanton Friedman
  • Project Beta by Greg Bishop
  • X Descending by Christian Lambright
  • Important New Revelations About the Paul Bennewitz Affair by Robert Hastings
  • Crash: When UFOs Fall From The Sky by Kevin Randle
  • The Myth of MJ-12 by Kevin Randle
  • Case MJ-12 by Kevin Randle
  • The Secret Pratt Tapes and the Origins of MJ-12 by Brad Sparks and Barry Greenwood
Post
#1629514
Topic
Explain Your Username / Avatar / Title / Signature
Time

My username is Spartacus because, being a radical socialist and a Marxist, I see Spartacus (the historical character) as “A great general, noble character, real representative of the ancient proletariat,” as Marx called him. The 01 in my nickname comes from the fact that I was born in 2001.

I have the habit of changing my Avatar very often. But whatever, if I had to explain the avatar I have right now, I put it simply because I like astronomy, I like space, and I like cool wallpapers that have astronomy and space as a theme.

Post
#1629372
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

G&G-Fan said:

There is a difference between those examples and a whole 5 minute stretch of time where we’re supposed to feel nervous for the droids because they’re in a dangerous wasteland.

The Jedi are mentioned quite a bit in the Original Trilogy, and they come across as mysterious because you have no real sense of how their Order was structured, what their rules were, or what their temple looked like. Watching those films, you are left with a sense of mystery surrounding the Jedi simply because you know so little about them. If you watch the Prequels first, they take that mystery away.

The same applies to the Empire. It is not mysterious in the sense that we do not know what it is, but rather in the sense that we do not know how it came to be. How was the Empire established? Who is this Emperor we see in the films? What connection did he have to the Old Republic? These are all unanswered questions when watching the Original Trilogy, and the Prequels take away that mystery by giving us all the answers upfront.

So, if we were to follow your logic and remove everything in the Prequels that diminishes the sense of mystery in the Original Trilogy, there would not be much of the Prequels left at all.

As for Tatooine, the Prequels do not ruin it. They only show a very small part of the planet, just like the Original Trilogy does. The Prequels never take us deep into the desert, nor do they explore its dangers. The story stays within a relatively civilized area where you have a clear idea of what to expect — exactly like in A New Hope. When the droids wander into the desert in A New Hope, the tension remains, even if you have seen the Prequels, because the desert is still an unknown. The Prequels only show the parts of Tatooine that are full of people, places where there are no real surprises. The desert, on the other hand, remains an unpredictable and dangerous place, no matter how much you have already seen in the Prequels.

Post
#1629265
Topic
The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread
Time

G&G-Fan said:

When watching A New Hope, and the droids are trekking Tatooine, there’s meant to be an air of mystery. You don’t know what you’re gonna find.
The Prequels ruin that.

Not if you watch the movies in release order, like almost everyone does. Don’t take this as a personal attack, but by following your logic, the Prequels should not exist in the first place, because almost every single element of the Original Trilogy feels like that. The Jedi, the Dark Side, the Empire, Alderaan, and so on. You need to remove some of the mystery surrounding these things if you want to watch the Prequels first, that’s just inevitable.

Post
#1629249
Topic
UFO's & other anomalies ... do you believe?
Time

Soviet Nukes and UFOs

Original Source: https://openminds.tv/soviet-nukes-and-ufos/


It sounds like a tabloid headline, but the question is a valid one: Did UFOs almost trigger an accidental nuclear war in 1982? The incident in question occurred in south-central Ukraine on the evening of October 4th, according to official depositions from Soviet military units and interviews with one of the officers in charge of the investigation. There were multiple witnesses to the event, which took place between 7:30 and 9:37 pm, and many of them were Soviet military officers and personnel stationed at a long-range nuclear missile base in Usovo, near Byelokovoriche.

The depositions describe nighttime unidentified lights performing acrobatics in the sky over several villages around the missile base. That, in itself, is not particularly worrisome, as the reports don’t indicate any sign of hostility from the lights. But what happened at an underground bunker of Military Unit (MU) 52035, one which contained nuclear missiles launch control panels, is another matter entirely.

“For a short time,” retired Air Force Colonel Boris Sokolov told ABC TV News Moscow correspondent David Ensor, “signal lights on both the control panels suddenly turned on, the lights showing that missiles were preparing for launching. This could normally only happen if an order was transmitted from Moscow.” As director of the Ministry of Defense’s effort for “research into the field of anomalous phenomena in the atmosphere and in outer space,” Sokolov became a member of the four-man commission set up to investigate the so-called Usovo case.

That was back in the early ‘80s when the missile targets were located in America, former KGB Director Yuri Andropov was General Secretary, and Ronald Reagan was denouncing the USSR as “the evil empire.” Today, of course, it’s a different story. The missile base was closed in the early 90s with the end of the cold war, the Ukraine is an independent country, and military witnesses are free to talk, sometimes. So we are lucky to have the official deposition of Major M. Davidovich Kataman, senior assistant of the commander of the Military Unit 52035’s communication service, in charge of the computerized control panels for the long-range nuclear missiles at the Usovo base. Major Kataman did not see the UFOs flying above because he was, at the time, on shift in the underground bunker. But what he did see was, militarily speaking, the stuff of nightmares in his line of work.

Major Kataman wrote in his deposition that, “on the 4th of October 1982 at 21:37, I observed spontaneous illumination of all displays: BR, P, Sh, DR, GP, SR, PR, CZ, BT, NBT, GP, message, GB message, PP, PS, OR, PNS, Z, PZG, PZNS, figure indicators as in the regime ‘light marks’ at first push on the information board.” Confusing as this sounds—and the difficulties of translation notwithstanding (1)—the Major is implying that someone or something was apparently manipulating the series of precise control codes, four spaces and control code combination, which regulate the computerized missile control launch panel. His deposition added that, “testing of apparatus and measurement of parameters according to technical map 1-30 showed no defects. The apparatus was functioning normally,” that is, before and after the strange “illumination of all displays.”

The officer then added: “I suppose that this effect can take place as a result of the influence of a powerful impulse on the apparatus’ power system, especially on block BP-263 (U-10) then on VTG-127 (U5, U3, U2) and then on blocks U14, U12 and U11 [missile silos], bearing the main load in processing data in the apparatus. No abnormal effects were observed in other communications means… No such cases had been observed before.” The equipment was later taken apart piece by piece but no anomalies or malfunctions were found.

According to the ABC-TV News Prime Time Live segment “KGB UFO Files,” which was broadcast on October 6, 1994, “for 15 agonizing seconds, the base lost control of its nuclear weapons; what happened here on this day has never been explained.” ABC also interviewed two witnesses to the 1982 sighting: a civilian from Byelokovoriche and Lt. Col. Vladimir Platunov. Lt. Col. Platunov described the object as “… just like a flying saucer, the way they show them in the movies, no portholes, no nothing. The surface was absolutely even, the disc made a beautiful turn…on the edge, just like a plane. It [made] no sound. I had never seen anything like that before.”

In comparison, the language in the nine other depositions—in addition to Major Kataman’s—is quite sober. They are by witnesses from MU 52035 and MU 32157, and include one soldier, one Lieutenant, three Captains, two Majors and three Lt. Colonels. It’s quite an impressive list. The witnesses were in various locations, mostly on roads linking Byelokovoriche and the villages of Usovo, Topyilnja, Zhovtnevo, Perebrody and Korosten. These small villages probably will not appear in a general atlas, but the area is located in central Ukraine, south of the capital Kiev.

THE TESTIMONY

Captain Valery Polykhaev was on a bus, returning home from his post at the Usovo base at 7:30 pm on October 4, 1982. “After the bus stopped at the cross roads to Usovo,” he stated in his deposition, “I saw in the clear space above the road, at 5-6 km of altitude, two brightly shining objects resembling very much a New Year’s tree garland in it’s shape.” (I believe “New Year’s tree garland” is a politically correct, Communist term for a common Christmas tree decoration.) “They were shining with bright-golden light and those lights were twinkling,” continued Capt. Polykhaev. “There were 6-8 brightly shining spots making a circle in every object. The distance between objects was about 2-3 km. Then a shining small ball separated from the left object and moved to the right one.” The lights continued their acrobatics for another 5 to 7 minutes, according to the Captain, who added that, “while moving the object changed its shape, the twinkling lights reformed from an ellipsis to a straight line.”

Lt. Colonel Balanev was returning home on the same military bus when, together with the rest of the passengers, he “observed a luminescence in the sky unknown to me from 19:20 to 19:40 hours. It was in the shape of many twinkling stars from pale-yellow to dark-cherry in color.” Other passengers in the bus who also witnessed the phenomenon and wrote depositions for the Ministry of Defense were Captains Duman and Tukmachev, and Lt. Colonels Povar and Kuzmin. Lt. Colonel Zinkovsky at first thought that it was a helicopter, but “on coming to the place where I observed the object, I saw that there was nothing there.”

Capt. Polykhaev saw the object again later in the evening. By 8 pm, he was driving his car with his wife, two children and some friends. They were near the railway crossing between Topyilnja station and Zhovtnevo street when they noticed once again an unusual light show in the skies over Usovo at an altitude of 5-7 km. “A bright light flashed and went out, then it flashed again and after that, 6-8 bright-golden lights flashed around it in the shape of an ellipsis,” continued Capt. Polykhaev’s deposition. “A small brightly shining ball separated from them and flew to the earth and on approaching it, went out. In 10 minutes the phenomenon repeated… the shining object began to move quickly in our side, with high speed and rising in size. Then the object suddenly stopped. Our distance to it was about 1-2 km. The children were scared that the object would fall down on us. After it stopped, the light went out slowly as if melted away. In ten minutes, another garland ‘flourished’ at a large distance and went out again.” Captain Kovalenko was in the same car with Capt. Polykhaev and basically described a similar event.

Most of the depositions are shorter and less detailed than Capt. Polykhaev’s. Major Lipezki was driving along the Perebrody-Usovo road with Capt. Ryabinin. His deposition states that, “I paid attention to the luminescence of some object straight in front of me somewhere above Usovo. The luminescence came from a group of shining spots forming 5 groups. The lights were disposed on the area approximately equal to the area of the setting sun. It was situated at an altitude of about 30 meters above the edge of a distant forest. The color of the lights was from pale-yellow to red. It was about 19:10-19:15 hours.” The two officers saw the lights again twice as they continued on the road towards Byelokovoriche, which they reached without further excitement.

Senior Lieutenant Kobulyansky, the Battery vice-commander, and Major Drobakhin, also saw unidentified lights on and off from another car along the road to Byelokovoriche between 19:30 and 21 hours. At one point, they reported an apparent electromagnetic effect on the car radio, such as if “we were coming under high-voltage lines, but there were no high-voltage lines there,” states Lt. Kobulyansky’s deposition.

NO CONCLUSION

What could have triggered the multiple-witness UFO by several Soviet military officers in the Ukraine on October 4, 1982? The ABC broadcast added that “there were military exercises going on at the time of the incident involving explosives in the air, but they were over 200 miles away from here. The weather conditions were normal.” Unlike other Soviet military reports from Col. Sokolov’s collection we have obtained, the dossier on the Usovo affair is quite slim: nine pages with the typed depositions quoted above, but no evaluations, no technical appraisals on the control panel malfunction; no mention of other possible factors or data on military maneuvers, radar, additional witnesses, etc.; and perhaps most significantly, no conclusions by the investigating commission.

Presumably all or some of the additional data exists in a Russian Ministry or intelligence archive somewhere, but it’s still secret. Yet even if the incident’s visual component could be explained by flares and explosives from nearby military maneuvers—something Col. Sokolov has apparently discounted in his interviews—these could not account for the “spontaneous illumination” of the control panels reported by Major Kataman M. Davidovich, which makes this case unique.

THE SOVIET UFO DOSSIER

The report on the Usovo incident and other cases of “anomalous atmospheric phenomena” in the former Soviet Union would have remained secret under normal circumstances. However, the fall of communism and the demise of the USSR produced something that 15 or 20 years ago would have seemed unthinkable: the declassification and literal “sale” of government documents of all kinds—from nuclear disasters and sunken submarines to UFO reports and psychotronic research. George Knapp, the well-known reporter from KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, visited Moscow for the first time in 1993. With the assistance of Dr. Nikolai Kapranov, a national security advisor for the Russian Parliament, Knapp and his associate Bryan Gresh were able to meet and interview Boris Sokolov, the retired Soviet Air Force Colonel who directed the UFO collection effort for the Ministry of Defense between 1978 and 1988.

Col. Sokolov had kept copies of approximately 386 UFO sightings reported simultaneously to both the Ministry and the KGB and, after some delicate negotiations, the whole dossier was sold to George Knapp. “In essence,” says Knapp, “an order went off from the Ministry of Defense to every unit in the Soviet military empire to fully investigate, report on, and file any UFO sightings, so in essence the entire Soviet military was like a giant UFO listening post.” (2) The whole effort was undoubtedly cold war-oriented, as Col. Sokolov himself acknowledged in his interview with ABC: “It was presumed that if we obtained the knowledge of such technologies we would achieve a considerable advantage in the competition that we were unfortunately engaged at the time.”

The UFO documents obtained by Knapp can be divided in three broad categories. The first is a short Summary of 357 cases logged between 1978 and 1991. They give the date, time and location for each incident; a brief summary of the report; a notation on whether any space launches or other technical experiments took place on the same time; and finally what the investigators call “Influences,” such as radar detection, electromagnetic effect on equipment, or physiological effects on the witnesses. While these Summaries are basically raw or unevaluated data, some of them provide interesting and provocative reading.

The second part of Col. Sokolov’s dossier is a more detailed discussion of individual cases. These consist of full depositions written by the military witnesses, such as those reviewed in the Usovo case, as well as a complete Questionnaire. This questionnaire includes not just the obvious questions about time, shape, direction followed by the object, meteorological conditions, and so on, but also “Influence on technical means” (electric equipment, radar, etc.) and “Influence on people and other living beings and environment.” Drawings and sketches of the observation are also included in the Questionnaire.

The last category of documents obtained by Knapp are not part of the old Soviet Ministry archives kept by Col. Sokolov, but part of the “Thread-3” project undertaken since 1991 by the current Russian Ministry of Defense. These documents were actually smuggled out of Russia by Knapp, and their style and contents are quite different from the previous project. They consist of a number of reports not so much on individual UFO cases, but on a variety of topics such as: the history of UFO research in the USSR and Russia; propulsion and “non-traditional engines” and “the possible application for the creation of military and industrial technical devices”; a brief review of American UFO documents and popular Western ufological research; analysis of the messages and philosophical outlook of some Russian UFO contactees; reports and rumors of UFO sightings by Russian cosmonauts; and so on.

The head of “Thread-3” agreed to meet Knapp but only off-the-record; his name was not disclosed and his face hidden from the TV camera. But in 1992, a man described as “Lt. Colonel Alexander Platskin, a CIS-United Armed Forces consultant on the problem of anomalous phenomena,” was interviewed on camera on the record for the Russian documentary film, UFO: Top Secret, produced and directed by the Samara ufologist Dr. Vladimir Avinsky. Lt. Col. Platskin stated candidly that, “there were cases of unauthorized firing at UFOs from automatic weapons. For instance, in the Djerzhinsky region of the Gorky province, fighter planes rose to intercept UFOs and buried a glimpse more than once, but it was all in vain. The singularity of the phenomenon startled and terrified sentries who opened fire at the strange objects. Pilots often saw them on their radar screens.”

Col. Sokolov, in an interview with George Knapp, seemed to confirm Plastskin statement. “Pilots recognized UFOs as a threat to them,” he said. “There were 40 episodes in which they shot at UFOs. An order was given to pilots to chase UFOs and shoot at them, but when the pilots tried, the UFOs sped away… In three cases, the pilots lost control and crashed. Two of the pilots died. After that, pilots received a new order. When they see a UFO, change course and get out.”

COL. SOKOLOV’S FLIP-FLOP

In 2000, Col. Sokolov and Yuli Platov, a well known Russian scientist and UFO skeptic, published a comprehensive article in Vestnik Rossiiskoi Akademii Nauk, the official proceedings of the Russian Academy, titled “History of UFO State Research in the USSR.” It described the history of the secret military studies of UFOs between 1977 and 1990, only to dismiss the bulk of them as mostly space-related IFOs (Identified Flying Objects). “Practically all the mass night observations of ‘UFO’ were unambiguously identified as the effects accompanying the launches of the rockets or the tests of aerospace equipment,” stated the report. After discussing and debunking a few cases, Sokolov and Platov concluded that there were no genuine UFO landings, contact cases or abductions. “This means that either the territory of the USSR was, due to any reasons, closed for alien visitations during, at least, 13 years or that the hypothesis of an extraterrestrial origin of ‘UFO’ is inconsistent,” wrote Sokolov and Platov. You can access the entire Platov & Sokolov paper translated by James Oberg here [http://www.debunker.com/historical/HistoryRussianUFOlogy.html].

Needless to say, the Usovo case is also discussed in some length in the Russian Academy journal and debunked as well. The first strange item is that the authors give its date as October 5, 1983, while all the official depositions in our possession clearly state that the year was 1982. Could this be a typo either in the original or in the English translation supplied by the well known American space expert and UFO skeptic, James Oberg? Sokolov and Platov then explain the visual sightings in the Usovo area by bomb dropping exercises conducted at “an air polygon of the 26 army located in the belorussian Polesje approximately 400 kms from a place of observation.” Finally, the two authors deal with the nagging problem of the malfunction of the nuclear missile control panel described by Major Kataman. Nothing to worry about. Almost as an afterthought, they finished the section on the Usovo case with this statement: “It should be added, that the fault in the operation of the command post equipment had nothing to do with the observed phenomena, it just completely accidentally coincided in time. However, just this time coincidence was the main reason for an urgent investigation of the event.”

The main question we are left with is what happened to Col. Boris Sokolov. His article with Yuli Platov in 2000 sounds totally different to the man who was interviewed by George Knapp and ABC Prime Time Live in the early 1990s. What caused his reversal? One possibility is that he got some flack for giving Knapp the Soviet military UFO dossier. There is some murkiness on how this transaction took place and it’s almost certain that, given the dire economic situation in Russia at the time, Sokolov was paid for it.

OTHER UFO INCIDENTS AT MISSILE BASES

Another important point is that the Usovo case is not in a vacuum. There is at least a handful of incidents involving UFOs at sensitive installations with nuclear bases the in both the U.S. and the old USSR that are documented and there might be more in still secret military files. One fascinating case Soviet military case which ironically is not even mentioned in the Sokolov and Platov article, occurred at an army missile base in the district of Kapustin Yar, Astrakhan Region, on the night of July 28-29, 1989. A partial file of this incident was declassified by the KGB in 1991 to the late cosmonaut and general Pavel Popovich, as part of a so-called “blue folder” of 124 pages of “Cases of Observations of Anomalous Occurrences in the Territory of the USSR, 1982-1990.”

The Kapustin Yar dossier consists of the depositions of seven military witnesses (two junior officers, a corporal and four privates) plus illustrations of the object by the observers, and a brief case summary by an unnamed KGB officer. The KGB file is obviously incomplete, since there is no data on the jet scramble mission (which is mentioned) and no final conclusions. However, the documents we do have provide fascinating reading. The most detailed observation comes from the Officer-on-Duty, Ensign Valery N. Voloshin:

“One could clearly see a powerful blinking signal which resembled a camera flash in the night sky. The object flew over the unit’s logistics yard and moved in the direction of the rocket weapons depot, 300 meters [1,000 ft.] away. It hovered over the depot at a height of 20 meters [65 ft.]. The UFO’s hull shone with a dim green light which looked like phosphorous. It was a disc, 4 or 5 m. [13-17 ft.] in diameter, with a semispherical top.

“While the object was hovering over the depot, a bright beam appeared from the bottom of the disc, where the flash had been before, and made two or three circles, lighting the corner of one of the buildings… The movement of the beam lasted for several seconds, then the beam disappeared and the object, still flashing, moved in the direction of the railway station. After that, I observed the object hovering over the logistics yard, railway station and cement factory. Then it returned to the rocket weapons depot, and hovered over it at an altitude of 60-70 m. [200-240 ft.]. The object was observed from that time on, by the first guard-shift and its commander. At 1:30 hrs., the object flew in the direction of the city of Akhtubinsk and disappeared from sight. The flashes on the object were not periodical, I observed all this for exactly two hours: from 23:30 to 1:30.”

Ensign Voloshin also provided a sketch of the disc-shaped object emitting the beam (see picture). The multiple witness incident at Kapustin Yar was selected as one of the cases in the Laurance Rockefeller-funded UFO Briefing Document – The Best Available Evidence, which I coauthored with Don Berliner and Marie Galbraith in 1995. You can read our entire treatment of this episode here [http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ufo_briefingdocument/1989.htm].

On the American side, there are at least two other similar examples of missile launch code manipulation coinciding with a UFO incident. The testimony of USAF Capt. (Ret.) Robert Salas, who was on duty at Oscar Flight as part of the 490th strategic missile squad in Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana on the morning of March 16, 1967, is well known. Salas was one of the military witnesses at the famous Disclosure Project event in the National Press Club (NPC) in Washington, DC in May 2001; he later published in 2005, with James Klotz, the book Faded Giant – The 1967 Missile/UFO Incidents. Basically, Salas’ story is that on that fateful morning, while on duty inside the underground bunker, he received a call from the one of the guards, who sounded quite disturbed. “Sir, there’s a glowing red object hovering right outside the front gate – I’m looking at it right now. I’ve got all the men out here with their weapons drawn.” As Capt. Salas went to notify his superior of the situation, “our missiles starting shutting down one by one,” he testified at the NPC event. “By shutting down, I mean they went into a ‘no-go’ condition meaning they could not be launched.” You can read the full details in Faded Giant, which includes a large number of declassified documents.

Fast forward to the fall of 1975. This time the target was the K-7 Minuteman nuclear missile area at the Malmstrom Strategic Air Command (SAC) base in Montana, on November 7, 1975. It occurred during a famous two-week UFO flap at several SAC bases along the USA-Canada border. According to The UFO Cover-Up, the authoritative book by Lawrence Fawcett and Barry Greenwood on the declassified American UFO documents, “targeting teams, along with computer specialists, were brought to the [K-7] missile site to check out the missile, and specifically, the computer in the warhead that targets the missile. Amazingly, when the computer was checked, they found that the tape had mysteriously changed target numbers! The re-entry vehicle was then taken from the silo and brought back to the base. Eventually, the entire missile was changed.”

Although there are no specific declassified documents for this warhead computer tampering, the overall UFO flap over five SAC bases (Loring AFB, Maine, Wurtsmith AFB, Michigan, Malmstrom AFB, Montana, Minot AFB, North Dakota, and Canadian Forces Station Falconbridge, Ontario, Canada) during a two-week period in late October and early November 1975, is well known and fully documented by declassified USAF and NORAD documents. A couple of sample quotes provide the alert status of these incidents:

“Several recent sightings of unidentified aircraft/helicopters flying/hovering over Priority A restricted areas during the hours of darkness have prompted the implementation of security Option 3 at our northern tier bases. Since 27 Oct. 75, sightings have occurred at Loring AFB, Wurtsmith AFB, and most recently, at Malmstrom AFB. All attempts to identify these aircraft have met with negative results.” (CINCSAC Offutt AFB message, “Subject: Defense Against Helicopter Assault,” November 10, 1975.)

“November 7, Malmstrom AFB, Montana. A Sabotage Alert Team described seeing a brightly glowing orange, football field-sized disc that illuminated the Minuteman ICBM missile site. As F-106 jet interceptors approached, the UFO took off straight up, NORAD radar tracking it to an altitude of 200,000 feet [38 miles or 60 km.]. An object… emitted a light which illuminated the site driveway. The orange-gold object overhead also has small lights on it.” (24 NORAD Region Senior Director Log November 1975.)

With all these facts in mind, it’s not unreasonable to think that the nuclear superpowers set in motion a policy to deal with these situations and avoid a risk of nuclear war. A curious clause about “unidentified objects” within an Agreement on Measures to Reduce the Risk of Nuclear War between the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialists Republics, points in that direction. The Agreement was part of the policy of detente during the Nixon and early Brezhnev administrations. It was signed on September 30, 1971 by Secretary of State, William Rogers, and Foreign Minister, Andrei Gromyko.

The Agreement has nine articles on issues such as informing each other “against the accidental or unauthorized use of nuclear weapons under its control,” notification in advance of missile launches that go beyond the national territory of each country, and other measures of cooperation in order to avert “the risk of outbreak of nuclear war.” Article 3 reads: “The Parties undertake to notify each other immediately in the event of detection by missile warning systems of unidentified objects [emphasis added], or in the event of signs of interference with these systems or with related communications facilities, if such occurrences could create a risk of outbreak of nuclear war between the two countries.”

The interpretation of Article 3 as including the possibility of UFO incursions seems inescapable. It is indeed reassuring in view of the cases where UFOs hovered over military facilities with nuclear weapons (SAC bases in USA, NATO bases in England, missile bases in Russia). On the other hand, attorney Robert Bletchman pointed out that “unidentified objects” (UOs) include non-UFO situations as well (such as an accidental overflight by a civilian aircraft or a terrorist attack), but in the final analysis, UOs do include UFOs. What degree of cooperation about UOs/UFOs existed between the USA and USSR (and currently with Russia), is hard to say, but Article 9 stated: “This Agreement shall be of unlimited duration.”

NOTES:

  1. The depositions’ English translations were done in Russia and so the wording can be rough. I’ve edited the text slightly to make it more readable, but otherwise not changed the descriptions.
  2. Knapp gave me copies of his entire Soviet and Russian military dossier in the fall of 1996, for publication originally in Japan (I was then a columnist for the now-defunct Tokyo paranormal magazine Borderland). An English version was also published in the journal The Anomalist Nº 7, Winter 1998/99.