SparkySywer

erichf69 said:

To me, Rogue One was a VERY polished movie. I really enjoyed it. That being said, in my humble opinion, it did feel a little less star warsy. Primarily because it did not have the cheesy writing, humor, or as many continuity errors as the OT movies did. They really nailed the look down though. I walked out of the theater knowing it would be an immediate Blu Ray purchase once available.

“Fuck this movie, I’m just gonna leave. Not enough plot holes.”

Removed

G&G-Fan said:

Correct. He did a lot of research clearly which is really awesome. And it proves that RocketJump wasn’t exactly being genuine in his portrayal of Lucas and the making of the movie.

I’ve discussed this video with people here before, and people got upset about it. And yeah, the guy can be passive aggressive and somewhat mean, which is a problem, but a lot of the points are still valid. I can understand being mad about slander and misinformation about something you love at the same time though. People getting upset at the video was also probably partially due to the way I talked about it, due to my explosive nature. I think you’ll get a lot better reception as you’re way cooler and more level-headed and this post is much more objective.

Ultimately I think the original RocketJump video gained a lot of traction because people really want an answer to, “What happened to the Lucas that directed the original trilogy?/WTF happened with the prequels?” question. Which is understandable and very relatable. I felt that during my latest rewatch. But to take on a mindset that it must’ve been because George Lucas was just never good is not the answer. The real answer is definitely way more complex.

I remember shitting on you really hard about this video. I’m a lot more suspicious of this anti-George Lucas narrative that became so popular in the fandom than I was when you made that post. It feels really shitty to change my mind about something I was so opinionated on before, but I really feel like I watched Nerdonymous’s video with a hostile mindset and could only find errors in his refusal to treat RocketJump in good faith. But does RocketJump deserve good faith? Treating people with good people is a virtue, so maybe, but RocketJump’s video makes so many factual errors that he kind of has no credibility. The argument between Nerdonymous and RocketJump should be framed as someone who did their research vs someone who, at best, has no idea what they’re talking about, not as two equals both presenting valid viewpoints.

I originally disliked how Nerdonymous’s video didn’t make a strong, central argument to refute RocketJump, instead just being two hours of pointing out dumb shit RocketJump said, but the point here is to undermine RocketJump’s credibility: Here he is making pretty lofty claims discrediting George Lucas of Star Wars’s success, and he can’t even get basic facts right. Nerdonymous implies that RocketJump is a Disney shill or that the fans of this video are Disney shills, which I didn’t like at the time, and I still don’t see how you could ever prove that RocketJump had any connection to Disney or Disney promoted it. But it’s kind of obvious to me now how much RocketJump’s video was muddying the waters, and it’s extremely hard to believe someone who’s as clearly intelligent as RocketJump was just overzealous and ran a story based on mistaken and/or completely fabricated information. I don’t blame Nerdonymous for connecting the dots and blaming Disney, although there’s no evidence for that and literally all it takes to make a video like this is one guy still seething over the Special Editions.

Marooned Biker Scout said:

Because some people did a video talking about the power of editing film and how it can have a big effect in general, this film especially?

Come on. Let’s be real, that’s not what this video was. It’s not the takeaway you were meant to get from this video. It’s not why it got popular either, and it’s not what people reference it for. Do you really think Nerdonymous just randomly attacked RocketJump’s innocent video about “the power of editing film”? Even if trying to discredit George Lucas is a total accidental message that RocketJump did not intend to put in his video, come on, we need to look a little more critically about the messages in the media we’re consuming. You’re being extremely forgiving. The message is definitely there, and considering how many people have picked up on this message and used this video to argue against George Lucas deserving credit for Star Wars’s success, it deserves to be taken seriously.

Like I said above, I think it was a brave thing to post that Nerdonymous video on here considering it shits on fan preservations and fan edits.

That pissed me off too. I’m a member of this community and I didn’t appreciate being shit on like that. But can you really blame an outsider for thinking these things about us? 99% of the early fanediting scene was driven by George Lucas seethe, and while we constantly talk about the preservation of Star Wars’s cultural legacy, something which is extremely important, you have to admit George Lucas seethe is embedded in these preservationist communities. Anti-Lucas revisionism is more of a problem here than Pro-Lucas revisionism is in the general population. If we want to be act like someone who has a deep admiration for Lucas shitting on us is an unfair thing to do, maybe we should stop shitting on George Lucas so much.

Especially because, if Star Wars’s cultural heritage is what we want to say we’re here for, and not just because we’re still seething about the Special Editions, we need to keep in mind that George Lucas has contributed far, far more to Star Wars’s cultural heritage than he’s destroyed. It’s a shame that he destroyed some of it. But he literally made Star Wars. Can we have some perspective?

We’re at a point in time where our fiction is as soulless and hollow as ever because we shit on visionary storytellers like George Lucas. The creativity and passion that went into the OT which is now rare if not absent from modern filmmaking is more important to Star Wars’s cultural legacy than whether or not Han shot first, and considering that Disney has done nothing but give us what we ask for, it was us who destroyed it.

Anyway, I apologize to you G&G Fan. I was wrong about what I said, and it’s embarrassing to look at the original thread and see myself defending a viewpoint which I really think should have been obvious how wrong it was. I’m feeling that way more and more about the shit I’ve said on the internet years past. Although Nerdonymous’s major chip on his shoulder really does make the video fucking suck.

I used to hold out hope for the OOT, but now I’m completely certain we will never, ever see an official release. We have to move on.

If I get to hear about these “Ruusan Reformations” one more time I’m going to giggle.

G&G-Fan said:

Superweapon VII said:

It’s probably difficult for some folks to wrap their heads around Vader being the Dark Lord of the Sith whilst being subservient to a non-Sith Palpatine because since 1999, the Sith have been portrayed as apex predators who have a monopoly on dark side mastery. But this is purely an invention of the prequels.

You do realize that the fact that Vader calls Palpatine his master obviously means Palpatine was a Sith in TESB and ROTJ?

Sith was never uttered until TPM. All we know is that Palpatine is Vader’s master. It could be that they’re both part of a dark Order where Palpatine trained Vader, but we have no reason to believe Vader’s a part of any order based solely off the OT. It’s worth mentioning that Timothy Zahn wanted to name the Noghri species “Sith” to explain what “Dark Lord of the Sith” meant. Palpatine only really needs to be someone powerful in the dark side, what the Sith are and whether or not Palpatine is one of them isn’t as important.

Not that Palpatine’s relationship with Anakin should be like Snoke and Kylo Ren, but in a prequel rewrite, their relationship could be something like that. Kylo Ren is a Knight of Ren, Snoke trained him and is his master but is not a Knight of Ren. The Knights of Ren are just an order that Kylo Ren is also a part of.

At this point I’m starting to think that the kind of mental gymnastics people use to resolve the contradictions between the PT and OT is funny. The contradictions are a blessing. They make the movies more enjoyable because I now get to listen to people spew horseshit about how the Ruusan Reformation explains how the Republic is simultaneously 1,000 and 25,000 years old. I wish there were more of them.

I’m considering changing my profile picture to that of a desert fox

Now that All I Want For Christmas Is You season is over, how long did you guys go without hearing it? I made it all the way to December 23.

Superweapon VII said:

Spuffure said:

The internet was peddled as a meaningful and revolutionary tool, but capitalism being capitalism, it is now corrupted by filth, lies, and addiction.

Fixed that for you.

Capitalism was not necessary to put filth, lies, and addiction on the internet.

Spuffure said:

I strongly dislike the term “Grammar Nazi”. How does being obsessively corrective to someone’s grammar have anything to do with killing a lot of innocent people?

“Grammar Cop” or “Grammar Policeman” is a much more suitable term.

I used to hear Grammar Police all the time, but I don’t anymore.

Servii said:

Spartacus01 said:

Sometimes I feel the Star Wars universe is unnecessarily big and confused, and that it contains a disproportionate amount of material, although there’s no need to. If I were George Lucas, this is the way I would have organized the Star Wars universe from the beginning:

• A “Down of the Jedi” style long comic series to explore the birth of the Jedi and the Republic.
• A “Tales of the Jedi” style comic series to explore the birth of the Sith and the Great War between the Jedi and the Sith, which leed to the Sith “extinction” at Russan.
• A trilogy of comics to explore Darth Bane’s story.
• A “Star Wars: Republic” style long comic series to explore the whole Prequel Era, the Clone Wars and Anakin’s fall. No Prequel films, everything Is made in comics.
• A “Star Wars: Dark Times” style comic series to explore the Dark Times.
• The Original Trilogy.
• A “Tales of the Jedi” style long comic series to explore the post-ROTJ period, at least until the definitive defeat of the Empire.

That’s it. This way, there wouldn’t be too much material, the universe outside of the movies wouldn’t be so big, and perhaps people would be less confused.

The issue you run into with a really tight, concrete canon is that the duds are harder to ignore. If a book, show, or movie is hard canon and ends up being really bad, all future material still has adhere to it.

IMO, Disney should consider the movies something like a “Main Saga” and everything else sort of like an Expanded Universe, which are on different tiers of canon.

In fact, it would probably be a good idea to split it into more than two tiers of canon. Like, George Lucas’s 6 movies are obviously on the top tier of canon as the core story the rest is based on, but then on the next tier you could have stuff like The Clone Wars which is clearly core canon but still lower than 1-6. Then you’d have stuff like novels and comics, the main bulk of what I’m thinking I’d call the “Expanded Star Wars Universe”, and then at the bottom you’d have stuff which conforms to canon but doesn’t define it. This would really work out, especially with such an anal fanbase. I’m not sure why Disney doesn’t do this.

Two-hundred and seven

I’d like to have the Jedi themselves gradually become authoritarian over the course of the PT. At the beginning of Episode 1, they’re more like academics, diplomats, and thought leaders with no formal power in the galaxy, having given it up at the beginning of the long peace they live in. But this long peace is coming to an end, and the Jedi, reminiscing their past as defenders of peace and justice in the galaxy, illegally intervene in this war. This should be portrayed as a good thing, if they hadn’t, the bad guys would’ve just chewed up whatever planet they invaded and moved on to the next, and the Republic was incapable of stopping them without the Jedi.

The enemy responds by escalating the war to deal with the Jedi, to the point where the Jedi can no longer handle the war on their own. The Republic is at risk of being conquered, and the Jedi save the Republic by seizing more power and mobilizing a large, centralized army capable of fighting a galactic-scale war. Since the Jedi have been the boots on the ground, this army is answerable to the Jedi, not necessarily the Senate, giving the Jedi essentially more power than the Republic. After Episode 2, the galaxy may as well already be in the same political state as it is under the Empire, the only major difference being that the Jedi, who are trying to do the right thing, are in charge. The Senate won’t be dissolved until Episode 4, but in Episode 3 they’re just rubber stamping what the Jedi want to do anyway. Again, this should be something the audience is on board with. If they didn’t do this, the Republic would have been destroyed and someone far worse would have been ruling the galaxy.

The Senate would be more like the Roman Senate than the American Senate, where all the Senators have important bureaucratic jobs outside of legislating. Palpatine is the Jedi’s representative in the Senate, a very prestigious role before the PT but not powerful until the war happened. But now, Palpatine is essentially the commander-in-chief of an army which is more powerful than the Republic, and all he has to do to seize complete control of the galaxy for himself is to get the Jedi out of the picture. He does that, and that’s it. He sells this seizure of power easily, because ostensibly the only difference between the Jedi’s regime and his is that his regime is more effective and not self-sabotaging with allegiance to, like, ideals and morality. Now that Palpatine’s in power, the “Republic” easily wins the war they always should have been able to.

I wouldn’t want the audience realizing the Jedi were doing anything wrong until it’s in retrospect at the end of the trilogy. The Republic is cripplingly stalled by corruption and enough Senators are in the pockets of the enemy that the Jedi are the only ones capable of fighting a truly evil enemy, but they have the strategy of white blood cells and put the galaxy in a worse position because of it. If Palpatine’s behind the enemy here too, this could be his real plan, counting on the Jedi Code’s complete intolerance of the dark side to get them to seize power for him.

BedeHistory731 said:

What’s conveyed by the writing, cinematography, editing, and cultural context > authorial intent.

I feel like I’ve 180’d completely very quickly on this. Storytelling is a form of communication, and taking messages from a someone that they didn’t intend to convey would be considered dishonesty, or at the very least unfair. I think Death of the Author is a useful tool, especially in cases where an author doesn’t really get the appeal of their own work (e.g. George Lucas, JK Rowling) which go to show that treating authorial intent as objective truth misses very important aspects of a work of art. But I think placing authorial intent on such a low pedestal also misses very important aspects of a work of ar. I don’t know how useful of an analytical tool this is, but if disagreement between the author and audience is a miscommunication, then we should analytically look at a work both for its intended message and its received message, which are coequal.

True

What is going on at Lucasfilm

If someone’s seriously that addicted to the internet that just going on for school or work makes them immediately go on websites where they see things they wish they could unsee, which have partially ruined their life, they have a serious problem and need some serious help. Throwing up your hands and saying that the only solution to the problem is if the internet never existed is just going to lead to you, unsurprisingly, seeing more shit that’s going to partially ruin your life. Unless they take action to change their behavior, their behavior isn’t going to change.

198

You aren’t seeing “horrible things you wish you could unsee” on those unavoidable parts of the internet you need for school or work though, are you? You’re seeing that because you went on websites which are obviously going to have horrible things you wish you could unsee.

2(2^(2^2+2)+2^(2^2+2^(2-2))+2^(2-2))

Spuffure I’m sorry if this comes off as confrontational, but if going on the internet causes you so much pain that you wish you were forced not to use the internet, why don’t you just choose to stop using the internet?

I voted but forgot to get an “I voted” sticker

deleted

Vladius said:

People here did it with “The Skywalker Saga.” That was a marketing term used to promote Rise of Skywalker. Even though most here hated that movie, they bought it hook, line, and sinker and felt compelled to make unnecessary 9 movie mega edits because of it, because you have to have the complete Skywalker Saga.

Sure, but it’s not like the only reason people see some overarching something between 1-9 is because of marketing. Although I think I agree with you that there are probably more 9 movie mega edits than we probably need.

Like a pendulum though hopefully it loses a little bit of energy with each swing