SparkySywer

Darth Malgus said:

I think it might be simpler to just do it the way the Star Trek EU does and let people choose to integrate or not integrate whichever canon they want.

Well, no. Unlike most of you, I’m a person who actually cares about continuity. I would like Star Wars to be a multimedia project, a single universe made up of multiple media that’s basically consistent with itself and between the various stories, as much as possible. I’m absolutely in favour of the existence of and official continuity, I think it’s necessary. This doesn’t prevent the individual fans to create their own personal Canon, and in fact I am the first to do so. But I think the existence of a stable and consistent official continuity is important.

Why

Darth Malgus said:

SparkySywer said:

Darth Malgus said:

I heard all the reasons about Hayden and the Redeeming nonsense created his ghost to become young again lol,
crap…

Shaw is a bad choice as well to be honest, since Anakin/Vader died at 45

Anakin/Vader only died at 45 after the prequels made him so young. Shaw was a perfectly fine choice in 1983.

Ghost Shaw worked well in 1983, but It doesn’t anymore. Personally, as I said in my previous post, I’m in favor of replacing the current 20-years old ghost Hayden with a version of Hayden himself that’s closer to his 40s.

Okay, but that doesn’t make it a “bad choice” that they cast Shaw, like you said. You can’t fault them for not having the clairvoyance during the production of RotJ to know that the prequels would contradict them two decades later. It’s not a flaw of the OOT and it’s not something that needed to be fixed.

Yes, but we’re no longer in 1983. Like it or not, there are other films now, and we must see things in a more united context.

Which is why I don’t agree with this attitude toward the OT. The OT came first. The OT portrayed Anakin as being old. The PT contradicted that. It’s not the OT’s fault and it shouldn’t be a good thing to “fix” the OT to fit in with the prequels, the prequels should have fit in with the OT themselves.

Having Palpatine’s machinations is cool, but it shouldn’t be an infinitely complex game of mouse trap while the Jedi sit on their butts.

I like the idea that Palpatine is, as well as a Senator, the intermediary between the Senate and the Jedi. In Episode 1, the Jedi will seek the power to act militarily without the Senate’s authorization because of what the Trade Federation’s doing. In Episode 2, the Jedi aren’t able to handle the conflict they got themselves into and they need an army to defend the Republic as it turns into a full-on galactic war. By Episode 3, Palpatine’s the middle man to this huge vortex of power the Jedi are accruing, and all he has to do to take it for himself is get the Jedi out of the way.

There can be tons of manipulation and Palpatining but the central steps from Senator Palpatine to Emperor Palpatine should be more clear.

I think I would unironically hire 3 different groups to do simultaneous reboots of the entire saga

Maybe. I feel like it’s beyond the scope of Vader as a character though. His redemption isn’t just the end of his character because he should die for what he did, but because he’s just no longer an interesting character once that’s done.

It might be interesting to see Anakin have to atone or pay for what he did somehow in the afterlife, but I think he’s better off dead in RotJ.

Maybe G&G’s on to something, and the point of Vader’s redemption isn’t so much that he’s becoming a good guy, but that the small glimmer of good that’s in him (and by extension, in everybody) is showing through. By showing Vader actually put in the work to earn forgiveness would make an arc of him becoming good more satisfying, but would add a ton of unnecessary complexity to the theme Vader’s redemption is in service of.

I feel like Zuko’s not a great comparison to Darth Vader. Zuko’s arc relies on him joining the protagonists, his redemption isn’t the end of his story. This isn’t the case for Vader, and I don’t think it should’ve been either.

BedeHistory731 said:

I don’t like that some PT fans refuse to see the OT within their temporal context of 1977-83.

I agree

Me when Padme comes back in The Book of Boba Fett Season 2

At this point Star Wars fans deserve punishment

Palpatine should’ve lived and gone to jail for his crimes or the rebels are no better than the Empire

2, 1, 3, 8, 9, 6, 4, 5, 7

Darth Malgus said:

I heard all the reasons about Hayden and the Redeeming nonsense created his ghost to become young again lol,
crap…

Shaw is a bad choice as well to be honest, since Anakin/Vader died at 45

Anakin/Vader only died at 45 after the prequels made him so young. Shaw was a perfectly fine choice in 1983.

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G&G-Fan said:

BedeHistory731 said:

It also shrinks the universe a little and turns the Skywalkers into the most important family in the galaxy. I don’t like the idea of lineage dictating a character’s power. Luke being a nobody who happens to be the son of a random Jedi and not the son of an all-time powerful Jedi/regional manager of the Empire sounds a bit better to me at the moment. I hate how lineage becomes so important, especially to the fan (and Abrams’) perspective.

Star Wars is supposed to be a family soap opera, according to George Lucas. If you don’t like it, then you just don’t really like Star Wars.

I think that’s unfair. George Lucas is classically unreliable, and I think all we can gleam from that statement is that 1-6 ended up as a family soap opera. In 1977, the only Skywalker that mattered was Luke, and I don’t think you could say that Star Wars was about the Skywalker family until the 2000s. Lineage as BedeHistory describes it wouldn’t even really be as big as it is now until after Disney.

Also, damn it’s almost like things from one family member get passed down to another. Sounds like you didn’t take a lot of science classes cause it seems you know nothing about genetics.

Luke trains to become a Jedi because he’s inspired by his father, not because he’s genetically a good bet to be a good Jedi. He’s intrigued by the mystery of what the father who was missing from his life was.

I disagree with BedeHistory. I think everyone here kind of knows Star Wars went wrong somewhere, and I think even though we all like all three OT movies, a lot of modern Star Wars’s problems can be traced back to decisions made during the OT’s production. Where I think BedeHistory goes wrong is in pushing it back too far, and rejecting too much from the OT, the good and the bad.

I understand why she (?) feels that way, though. George Lucas doesn’t seem to have ever really understood why Darth Vader being Luke’s father worked so well, and I mean, I completely agree with BedeHistory’s frustration with Disney Star Wars’s obsession with lineages.

Having Vader once be the man Obi-Wan described Luke’s father as immediately adds way more depth to his character. Without combining Vader and Anakin they both become a lot less complex and interesting.

I agree with this completely. Vader being Luke’s father makes Vader a lot less of a one-dimensional character and gives the story of the OT much, much more depth. This is why I believe ESB is what put the actual story of Star Wars into the relevance that it has.

But was it worth it? I think so, but I think BedeHistory has a good case for why she thinks it wasn’t. I mean, you say that the concept works poorly on screen, but it worked perfectly fine in 1977. For 3 years, BedeHistory’s ideas are exactly what Star Wars was. The movie never needed sequels, and it would’ve been perfectly fine without them, even though I think it would’ve been worse off. But there’s still an appeal to imagine a simpler timeline where Star Wars was a one-hit wonder.

Since when was the universe feeling vast more important then character depth and the characters having meaningful relationships with one another? Because if you ask me that was never.

That’s not what they’re arguing.

Star Wars 77 is a fantastic movie on its own, but I don’t think it would be as worth remembering without The Empire Strikes Back

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Replace all the scenes with Anakin in the prequels with footage from Cube (1997), and also replace all the scenes without Anakin with footage from Cube (1997)

Shaw plays the version of the character who committed all the crimes against the galaxy that Vader committed. Hayden plays the version that didn’t. At least, that’s Lucas’s intention behind the SE change. But it’s more powerful to have the version of Anakin who had been evil for 22 years as a ghost, as a confirmation of his redemption. After all, Obi-Wan’s the one who believes Anakin truly died back on Mustafar, and he’s wrong. Luke proves him wrong.

Maybe the asteroid was just rotating fast enough that the centripedal acceleration was about 10 m/s^2 (they were on the outer side of the belly)

I was talking to Servii about this in PMs, I think it’s interesting how open the galaxy seems to be in the PT, compared to the OT and ST where the galaxy gradually seems smaller and smaller. If I were to write my own version of all of Star Wars, I’d lean into that hard. The galaxy is bustling and vibrant in Episode 1, but the Clone Wars and then later the Empire mar the galaxy so badly that it’ll never really recover. Trade completely breaks down, hyperspace lanes are forgotten, planets are abandoned, etc. The New Republic may try to make things what they once were, but with so much galactic infrastructure destroyed and pilfered, it could never.

Jakku is symbolic of what the future of the galaxy’s like. A world which was once an imperial dumping ground now has its own, new ecosystem of scavengers, and the Star Destroyers and walkers which once terrorized the galaxy are now great sources of livelihood. It’s not glamorous like what their great grand-parents would’ve done for a living, but it’s a new niche that didn’t exist before. Without the Empire, Jakku wouldn’t exist.

After Episode 9, the galaxy will never recover or return to its past glory, but will learn to thrive in the new post-Empire reality. Like after the fall of the Roman Empire, civilization will not exist on the same scale that it once did, but new, complex societies are born in the aftermath.

I don’t really feel like an OT purist, but there’s just so much great shit about the OT that I genuinely think gets missed if you don’t consider it in isolation, forgetting the PT and ST exist entirely.

Perhaps the most radical redux is to admit that you never wanted them fixed in the first place

SpenceEdit said:

G&G-Fan said:

I think it’d be great to have an edit that just has the gungans speak in an alien language instead. Their speech is just so annoying and hard to understand. And besides when you have them have an alien language and then subtitle them you can make them say whatever you want.

Is there a language that the movie has been dubbed in that isn’t immediately identifiable? Because that could work. But if they obviously are speaking Russian or French it kind of falls apart.

What did the Anti-Cheese Edit do and how was that achieved? I haven’t watched that fanedit since like 2015 but I remember it redubbing Jar Jar really well somehow.

I didn’t even see that the body of the post was edited. Really uncool. Even if this post was downright intentionally spreading misinformation, it shows a severe lack of maturity and restraint in the mod team on OT.com to treat it this way. This is an argument over space movies where they say “Nerf herder”. It isn’t so dangerous as to warrant this kind of treatment.

That’s what I thought, lol, didn’t seem like something he’d do. Also, why is this in the EU section?