SparkySywer

Stardust1138 said:

Whose to say they’re seperate treatments? They could be part of the same story treatment as the Whills storyline but he didn’t feel the need to address it further since he already discussed it with James Cameron.

It’s certainly possible, but we know of at least three entirely separate, completely unconnected and contradictory sequel trilogy ideas he’s had over the years that have been very publicly known to be separate, and were thought up at very different times, decades apart. Plus, we know there are more than just those three, ones that we just don’t know the details about.

It would be really weird if they were spending the whole book dancing around a core concept of this sequel trilogy, it’s more believable that this is just a fourth idea.

Rodney-2187 said:

I love George and thank him immensely for creating something that’s brought me so much joy my whole life, but in my opinion Star Wars is at its best the more other people are allowed to play in his sandbox.

100% agree.

Ed Slushie said:

I just had an idea: what if we found a way to make it look like Snoke was the one who smashed Kylo Ren’s helmet? He insults the helmet multiple times so it seems like something he would do, and then it would make Kylo reforging his helmet seem like he’s growing rather than regressing.
Maybe, we could even move the scene of him reforging his helmet up to the end of The Last Jedi, as an epilogue/cliffhanger.

I’m sort of a fan

I think it sacrifices TLJ a bit too much for TRoS’s sake, but if you’re trying to bring TRoS back into the fold, this edit is a must.

ZkinandBonez said:

I feel like Kylo Ren (and AOTC Anakin to a degree as well) has warped the perception somewhat of what an angry SW character has to be though. Anger doesn’t always mean rage. There are moments, even a few in ESB, were you can hear Vader seething, and he does have a few growls as well (one which ironically was removed in the SE). And, as has been pointed out earlier, within the first 10 mins of ANH we get to see (or rather hear) Vader straight up bark orders at his men, not to mention strangle a man he’s interrogating to death before he gets anything out of him. There’s so much more to anger, and acting out anger, than the unhinged shouting of Kylo in the ST.

I was looking for a better word to describe Vader’s anger, and that’s a pretty good one: Seething.

He’s not flipping shit losing his mind in anger, he’s seething.

StarkillerAG said:

But the way those lines are differed is markedly different than it is in ESB. Seriously, compare this scene in ANH:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLgsf8Pei6Q&t=238

This always came off to me, for lack of a better word, like a sort of bad cop routine. He’s not losing it in rage, this is strictly professional violence with a specific goal. He’s exerting the Empire’s will.

I’m sick as a dog, and while I don’t think it’s covid (I can taste and smell fine), I’m lethargic as hell, dizzy, and can’t breathe.

SilverWook said:

SparkySywer said:

Now we have the mods editing and now removing comments that poked holes in their side of the story (and again, mine was simply proposing a simple way to get to the bottom of it all), for frankly very dubious reasons, it’s shady as hell and makes me lose a lot of sympathy for them. Kind of makes me think that Junior’s comment was onto something…

As I’ve said before, I’ve been on this forum a heck of a long time. Through thick and thin and some of the worst times in my life, this forum was often my refuge. Accepting the moderator gig was a way to give back to this crazy wonderful place. If people think I’m being shady or dishonest now, maybe I should retire? What good am I as a mod if I don’t have your trust?
I had just emerged from a lengthy personal crisis days before the pandemic started, and was stressed and worn out already. I’ve already planned to take a sabbatical when I can finally get my damned eye surgery. The pandemic and insurance shenanigans have played hell with that.

Something I’ll have to ponder for a while.

I trust your intentions and I like you as a person. I don’t mean to insult you or anything like that, and I’m sorry if what I said made you feel that way.

Not OT, but just noticed that in AotC, Obi-Wan calls the Jedi Temple the “Old Folks’ Home”… twice.

I sort of agree that Vader isn’t stoic and unemoting in the OT, you can see in Empire that he loses his cool by the end of the movie.

That said, though, that’s pretty much as emotional as he gets, and that’s sort of the power of scenes like this (pardon the Special Edition). You can just feel, from both David Prowse’s acting and the acting of all the Imperial Officers on the bridge with him, that he’s losing his mind with rage inside. His failure to take in Luke Skywalker has driven him past his breaking point.

But he doesn’t whip out his lightsaber tearing up some console (I don’t have any issue with Kylo as a character, but Vader is not Kylo), or cry out “Noooo!!!”, he’s pretty collected.

Nothing he does in ANH comes off as particularly hotheaded. He’s violent as hell, but not at all a hothead.

You can maintain that choking someone for disrespecting your religion is hotheaded, and in a normal society it would be. But in the high ranks of a military junta… not so much. Violence doesn’t seem as surprising to the Imperials here as it would be to us. It’s not like Vader flips out and screams at Motti and chokes him, he’s pretty collected and uses violence to prove Motti wrong. Again, which comes off as pretty normal in a despotic military dictatorship.

And you can’t say “vAdEr wAsN’t a sItH lOrD iN tHe oT, ThAt wAs A rEtCoN bY tHe PrEQuEls”

I have no idea who you’re trying to mock here, Vader having the title “Dark Lord of the Sith” was common knowledge from 1977. What exactly the Sith were was never really settled until TPM, but literally nobody would deny that he was a Sith during the OT’s production.

Honestly, I don’t really get what your point here really is at all, I really don’t think I’ve ever seen someone suggest that Vader’s completely unemoting and stoic.

I sort of agree with Neverar, I don’t really think the Jedi having an official age limit undermines the line in the OT. It’s still really dumb, though, and it feels like it’s a gross misinterpretation of the line in ESB, especially because Lucas was not the one who wrote it.

DominicCobb said:

I think a lot of us still remember TV’s Frink being permbanned years ago, not for rule breaking, but for just “being annoying” according to Jay. Have to imagine there’s still some bitterness towards the general style of moderation that has lead to some of these longtime users feeling like the site has become a different place. People seemed to like Off Topic much more when it didn’t have such strict and sometimes confusing moderation.

But it’s fine. The projects sections still live on. Not every site needs an off topic section that people care about.

Collipso, I still interact with him on Fanedit.org and he’s a good guy, but he definitely crossed the line in the Off-Topic fiasco. And he admits as such.

Frink on the other hand, his ban was pretty unfair.

That whole situation is what I had in mind in my comment earlier. I completely agreed with the mods at the time, I really wouldn’t want some of those off topic threads showing up in the top results on google, but the veteran users were proposing fair and reasonable compromises, only to be struck down.

Now we have the mods editing and now removing comments that poked holes in their side of the story (and again, mine was simply proposing a simple way to get to the bottom of it all), for frankly very dubious reasons, it’s shady as hell and makes me lose a lot of sympathy for them. Kind of makes me think that Junior’s comment was onto something…

Something that always bothered me though, was that the (relatively civil) politics threads were an embarrassment to the site, but the creepy-ass Beautiful Women thread was a-okay.

All the old members being banned is awful, and kinda ruins the site. With the biggest names gone, there’s not really much value left in OT .com. It’s not all gone and I’m not planning on leaving or anything, but it sucks.

It’s awful that there was absolutely no attempt at cooperation or compromise between the mods and the veteran users here.

JackNapier said:

StarkillerAG said:

JackNapier said:

JadedSkywalker said:

People would have been bored out of their minds watching Luke train Younglings, Leia sitting behind a desk signing bills as Chancellor of the republic, or Han training pilots for the new republic academy.

That is most likely what would have happened in Lucas sequels.

Naw ruining characters doesn’t make a good story Rian.

What does RJ have to do with any of this? You may not have liked the direction he took the characters, but you gotta admit that a boring, relatively conflict-free sequel trilogy would not be good either.

Or you know just adapt the respectful Thrawn Trilogy and not ruin original characters just to introduce new ones.

I like the Thrawn Trilogy a lot, I really do, but I wouldn’t call it respectful to the Original Trilogy at all (cough cough Ysalamiri cough cough)

thebluefrog said:

Note the absence of any comments about the Midichlorians or the microscopic Whills universe idea. In other interviews that was yet another sequel plotline.

Almost feels like he had multiple ideas and he gave this particular one to Disney, since it’s not that far off from the sequels overall.

Lucas has had, like, five or six contradictory sequel trilogy ideas over the years. The Whills universe idea and this one are entirely separate, and the idea he pitched to Disney is a third entirely separate idea.

NeverarGreat said:

George Lucas: When writing the movies, I tried to make sure that aliens and droids got killed, but not people.

Paul Duncan: A lot of stormtroopers died.

George Lucas: That’s right, but you didn’t know they were people. We did kill three humans and that was unfortunate. I was always bothered by it.

Paul Duncan: When was that?

George Lucas: On the Death Star, when Han and Luke go into the prison with Chewie to rescue Leia, they shoot three Imperial guys. The guards drew their guns and fired first, but it’s still a shame.

Paul Duncan: Really?

George Lucas: Yeah, we very consciously didn’t kill very many humans in those movies.

Paul Duncan: What about the stormtroopers? They look robotic, but they’re not.

George Lucas: How do you know what they are?

Paul Duncan: Did you have a different idea of what they were?

George Lucas: Yeah, they started out as clones. Once all the clones were killed, the Empire picked up recruits, like militia.

This is so strange to me. Are aliens and clones not people to George? Besides, what about everyone Luke blew up with the Death Star? I guess as long as we don’t see their faces, their death doesn’t count. And what about the good dozen Rebels gunned down by Stormtroopers in the first scene, or Captain Antilles who had his neck crushed, or crispy Owen and Beru…

Like, I don’t want to say this flippantly, but this seems like an artist in willful denial of the content of his art.

George Lucas? Denial of reality? Never!

I’m sure this is a common story for people my age (early 20s), I used to be a super fan of the prequels, but that was more out of contrarianism and because I hadn’t really sat down and watched them since I was a kid. I would watch the random scene from them once in a while, but the whole movie at once, never. Revisiting them as an older teenager changed my opinion, and that was a hell of a slap in the face.

If you really dug around in my comments history, I bet you could find 2016 SparkySywer obnoxiously defending the prequels or something like that on here.

Yoda/Palps frottage scene when

How ludicrously long are these rendering times? Out of curiosity.

This thread

JakeRyan17 said:

My point is more that brainwashing is brainwashing. My mom didn’t used to be racist or homophobic, now she is. We can make broad strokes about why she deserves to be murdered more than her child she’s raising in that worldview, but to me it just kinda seems moot. We can call her stupid, or blame her for not understanding trickle-down farces… but at the end of the day she was brainwashed, but she’d deny being brainwashed.

If we’re against killing brainwashed people, then stunners are the way to go. Trying to parse out which brainwashed people deserve to die and which we feel bad about is what feels antipathetic to me.

Is your mother murdering civilians?

My own personal opinion, I’m really not a super fan of all the kidnapping, or even recruiting children that there is in Star Wars nowadays. Even when the villains (the First Order) do it, it’s still kind of really uncomfortable that this is just a fact of the Star Wars universe now.

CourtlyHades296 said:

rotoscoped onto Anakin’s body in jonh’s ghost scene.

The circle is now complete. Hayden was rotoscoped onto Shaw’s body in RotJ, now Shaw will be rotoscoped onto Hayden’s body in TRoS.

It brings you to the first comment you haven’t read yet, or if you’ve read every comment, to the beginning of the thread.

They should absolutely add some options there, though.

I don’t wanna moan to hard about TRoS tonight, but TRoS’s end product really isn’t at all reflective of the ideas they had going into production, let alone pre-production, let alone the production during TFA. Major plot points, like Palpatine even being in the movie, weren’t there until January 2019, and it’s likely that Rey Palpatine wasn’t even a thing until late summer 2019. Everything was shifting around that much that ideas that old (4+ years old, absolutely ancient) are unlikely to have made it to the finished product of TRoS.

If JJ had anything like Rey being OP and it being because of her bloodline, that’s a hell of a lucky idea to survive the culling that far.

NeverarGreat said:

the creator of that movie made a sequel to it where he acknowledges that it is unusual and explains it by tying her by blood to the most powerful Force user in the galaxy.

I really don’t think they thought that hard about it. I think they just kind of thought “Fuck it, bring Palpatine back” in the eleventh hour and then thought “Fuck it, make Rey a Palpatine, it’ll be a mind = blown moment or something.” I never took it to have any meta meaning like that, nor did I ever take it to be any sort of explanation of Rey being powerful. I didn’t realize anyone took it that way until hopping onto the cybertubes.

I mean, Kylo does say “You have his power”, but I always took it to be just your average sub-par Star Wars line.

JakeRyan17 said:

But lightsabers have never been described or depicted as light.

/s

Speaking of which, we’ve already got, like, 5 of the last 6 movies ending with Binary Sunset? Let’s just commit to it.

I feel like you guys are making up reasons to call Rey a Mary Sue. There’s really not much suggesting either way whether or not Wookiee language is easy or hard to learn, so I’d personally take Rey picking it up as evidence that it’s easy. Not as evidence that it’s hard and that she’s OP.

jarbear said:

Lol I think people are making misconceptions of what a Mary Sue and Gary Sue are and trying to broaden it’s meaning by tying it with Power/Ability, knowledge/knowhow, etc.

Yeah. Mary Sues and Gary Stus aren’t bad characters just because they’re super OP or whatever, but because they’re extreme self flattery (or flattery of another group, but it’s usually self flattery) with the subtlety of a jackhammer.

The original fanfic where the name Mary Sue comes from was a (parody of a) self-insert fanfic where the author’s self-insert was super talented and outperformed all the Star Trek characters because she was so cool and awesome, and they all instantly loved and respected her instantly for no other reason than because the author was (parodying) flattering herself.

The first people to accuse Rey of being a Mary Sue back in 2015 were more in line with this, but in a much less palatable way if you know what I mean.

I really don’t think Rey’s OP, though. Compared to Anakin and Luke, she’s pretty much on par for most things, albeit she starts a little bit further along with her abilities in the Force than Luke does. But for Luke, he doesn’t even believe it exists in ANH until the middle of the movie, doesn’t put any faith in it until the end of ANH, and doesn’t put complete faith in it until the very end of ESB. Versus Rey, who kinda starts off pretty close to where Luke was in ESB. She’s not a faster learner or naturally more OP than Luke, she just starts her movie further along than he started his. Beyond that, I’d absolutely say he’s a slower learner than him.

With Rey’s other abilities, TFA gives pretty solid reasons for them if you actually pay attention to the movie. She’s a good pilot because she has years of experience. She can fight using a lightsaber because she has years of experience with a similar weapon, and even then she’s not in a fair fight, it’s heavily stacked against Kylo.

I wonder what might be able to be done in an edit of TRoS that makes the trilogy more cohesive without sacrificing TLJ. Most edits of the ST try to reconcile TLJ to TRoS, but that’s kind of a shame. Like TLJ or not, it’s the one that actually has an artistic idea behind it. Especially compared to TRoS.