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SpacemanDoug

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3-Nov-2018
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18-Mar-2024
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Post
#1516610
Topic
Jingle All the Way (1996) - Restored & Regraded [Theatrical & Director's Cut] (Released)
Time

Kreep said:

SpacemanDoug said:

How is the aspect ratio on the BD incorrect?

Isn’t the OAR 1.85:1?

The framing/letterboxing on the Theatrical Cut and Director’s Cut on BD is consistent. However, the aspect ratio on the Theatrical Cut is stretched and pinched compared to the DVD and 4K transfer (correct aspect ratio). The Director’s Cut on BD shifts between the same amount of stretching/pinching and less stretching/pinching than the Theatrical Cut throughout the film.

The aspect ratio/black bars do shift throughout my version, but that is only because the BD’s should have if they wanted to keep a consistent aspect ratio.

(See screenshots for comparison) I hope that makes sense. 😃

it’s the framing and geometry you’re referring to, not the aspect ratio

framing and geometry can be incorrect but still in the same aspect ratio as presented theatrically

a correct aspect ratio a lot of times won’t mean shit if the framing and geometry are bad

Post
#1515916
Topic
Jackass: The Uncensored Naughty Collection (restoration)
Time

Some of you may be wondering “wait didn’t someone else attempt to restore this show?” and yes while that is true, there were unfortunately some major missteps in the wrong direction and some oversights made as well by the person who made the initial “Turd Collection” batch. But first I’m going to go into a bit of how I made my versions. It turns out that, a fact that apparently a lot are unaware of, that Paramount+ returns the show to its original TV format for the first time in a long time. Unfortunately there are still some major issues with these versions like censorship and a ton of music replacement. What ended up happening this time around was whenever a sketch from an episode would be cut, most of the time to fill in the missing minutes, MTV would use a repeated version of a sketch from a previous or future episode. There was even one instance where a sketch was repeated twice in two censored episodes. Either way, you won’t find any of that here. There were also several episodes where the MTV audio sounded better than the Paramount+ audio, so in music instances of those episodes, despite not being replaced I still used the MTV audio.

Another topic I wanted to go into and one reason why I decided to make entire ground up restorations is the framerate. For an unknown reason, the versions from the Turd Collection were rendered at an incorrect framerate (576i which is PAL and not the native NTSC framerate), de-noised, and deinterlaced. All of these are major red flags if one wants to properly restore taped material, because whenever you watch his versions, the framerate is all janked and jumpy, so in my versions I just left everything “as is” (video noise and all) and to me it gives off a MUCH smoother framerate than what was there before. The turd version was also still missing footage in every episode, namely the “coming up next” segments and the fade-ins, though I don’t entirely blame this person for this issue either as he clearly didn’t have all of the same sources I did because the old TV captures he used were missing all of them and I had alternative TV sources that restored all of them (though the Paramount+ versions had almost all of them intact anyway, only a few were missing fortunately). As a result, every episode will on average be about 30 seconds longer than what the Turd Collection has to offer (the Gumball Rally special is a damn near minute and a half longer though). There was also another oversight which was they were seemingly unaware that the “WARNING” skull that was present in the opening and fade-ins of episodes was different in the first season and the first four episodes of the second season, so I restored the versions originally used here as well. Also other minor oversights like additional “don’t try this at home” texts added to stunts after the original broadcasts that he accidentally included in those versions were addressed here as well.

I used almost all of the same sources the Turd Collection used to try to achieve the least amount of upscaled TV footage as possible. Unfortunately I didn’t have access to their Amazon source or what’s listed as the “CDVD” source, so as a result, there were a few small instances where I still ended up using their work because it looked better than the TV footage. So credit goes to them as a direct result of this. However, fortunately of the 7 stunts in those versions that required upscaling from the MTV recordings, only 2 required that here (not counting instances of when I used MTV footage for a missing moment or one of the “small” sketches) and both were in the first season. One thing I also did was on Paramount+, every episode had a “this show is airing in its original form with outdated social norms” screen on it in the openings that I also decided to remove and so you won’t find it in my versions anywhere.

Said stunts and the sources I used are:
-Human BBQ (MTV sourced)
-Up in Flames (was intact on Paramount+)
-The Poo Hug (MTV sourced)
-Taxi 1 (was intact on Paramount+)
-Hockey Check (was intact on Paramount+)
-Night Monkey 2 (was mostly intact on Paramount+)
-The Abduction (was provided as a special feature on one of the DVD releases so I used that source)

Another thing I have to go into is the sources I had access to. If it wasn’t for the OT.com user “lawful”, this restoration wouldn’t have been possible one bit. He provided me with everything outside of the TV captures and helped me achieve the best restoration possible for this series. So big giant thanks to him for making this project possible. Also gotta give credit to the creator of the Turd Collection restorations, since as I said earlier I did use some of their work (in those instances, their work will be labeled as the Turd source) still I gotta give credit to them and also I used their cut report to figure out where I could find sketches at (like if they were on The Lost Tapes DVD or the Volume 1-3 DVD versions). I decided to make a cut report of my own as well, to get an idea of how much work was exactly needed to be done to get the show back to its original state compared to what’s available officially on Paramount+

If interested, please either reply here or PM me.

Season 1:
This season was definitely the most butchered out of all of them, almost every episode was missing at least one stunt/sketch and had the most re-assembly required. Even the intro was censored where a shot of a woman puking was replaced with Knoxville covering himself in tomato juice (I restored the original puking shot to every episode before you ask). I’d dare say the second and fourth episodes are the most butchered of the entire series, they required the most work alone. This entire season also originally aired with an alternative silent version of the opening “WARNING” screen (which was also used for the fade-ins) so I restored that to every episode as well.

-Episode 1:
0:00 - 0:11: original “welcome to Jackass” intro (taken from The Lost Tapes) (replaced with a repeat from episode 2)
0:34: brief amount of MTV footage used to restore original fade from the intro
0:35 - 0:42: “WARNING” screen restored to its original spot along with the original variant used unique to the episode
0:42 - 2:55: original song
1:37 - 1:42: small amount of footage of clerk playing on guitar (taken from the re-edited episode 2)
3:20 - 6:45: three different songs restored to three different scenes
6:45 - 6:52: original “coming up next” segment restored (footage taken from the re-edited episode 2)
7:08 - 9:20: original song
9:38 - 11:31: original song
11:39 - 13:02: Wee Man Oompa Loompa skateboard parody restored (footage taken from the Lost Tapes but MTV audio used due to sounding better)
13:23 - 14:47: original song
14:57 - 16:37: original song

-Episode 2:
0:48 - 3:07: original roller jump sketch restored (replaced with a repeat from episode 3, taken from The Lost Tapes, MTV audio used due to sounding better), no music replaced
1:23 - 1:34: MTV footage mixed in due to the bar covering the doctor’s face differing from the lost tapes version of the sketch
5:03 - 5:12: original “Naked Dave” scene restored using the Turd source (replaced with a repeat from episode 1)
5:13 - 6:07: original Bam Margera trampoline stunt restored (replaced with a repeat from episode 3), no music replaced (taken from The Lost Tapes, MTV audio used)
6:22 - 6:32: original “coming up next” segment restored (replaced with a repeat from the original version of episode 1)
6:50 - 7:26: music wasn’t replaced surprisingly, but the MTV capture was a lot better quality audio wise than the Paramount+ version so I ended up using the MTV audio
7:27 - 10:36: original “human barbeque” segment restored (replaced with a repeat from episode 1)
10:45 - 11:21: original Dave England segment restored (taken from the Volume 1 DVD), (replaced with a repeat from episode 1, funnily enough this was the cut “Oompa Loompa” parody by Wee Man, though of course the song audio is altered)
11:23 - 13:49: original song restored
14:08 - 14:12: original naked run segment restored using the Turd source
14:13 - 15:03: again surprisingly the song wasn’t replaced but I still used the MTV audio because it sounded a lot better than the Paramount+ audio
16:39 - 17:40: ditto
20:08 - 20:16: original “on the next Jackass” segment restored
21:02 - 21:30: MTV audio used due to sounding better than the Paramount+ audio
21:19 - 21:26: original credits footage restored (taken from the Lost Tapes bonus disk)

   -Episode 3:

4:51 - 5:23: original song
7:07 - 7:18: original song
7:57 - 9:57: original song
10:02 - 10:19: original song
10:20 - 11:18: original song
11:35 - 11:52: original song
17:02 - 17:30: original song
18:48 - 19:50: original song

-Episode 4:.
1:16 - 1:23: Bam Margera segment restored using MTV footage (the Turd source footage actually looked worse in this instance)
2:01 - 3:59: original song
4:00 - 4:36: no music altered but MTV audio sounded a lot better
4:44 - 4:50: Turd source footage used to take out a warning text that was added to the Paramount+ version
4:51 - 5:28: again, no music altered but the MTV audio sounded a lot better
5:29 - 7:12: original poo hug segment restored (replaced with a repeat segment from episode 1)
7:47 - 8:04: original song
9:07 - 9:31: original song
9:07 - 9:27: missing fight footage restored (taken from The Lost Tapes)
9:32 - 9:54: missing Ryan Dunn segment restored (partially taken from The Lost Tapes, the last portion from the MTV recording, some additional restoration work done to restore name text and skull logo)
9:55 - 12:42: original Poo Poo Platter segment restored and used MTV audio due to the music slightly differing (taken from The Lost Tapes) (replaced with a repeat segment from episode 1)
15:02 - 16:05: MTV audio used due to sounding a lot better
15:58 - 16:03: missing footage restored
16:05 - 16:29: original Dave England segment restored (taken from The Lost Tapes)
16:30 - 20:20: original egg eating contest footage restored (footage taken mostly from the volume 1 DVD) (replaced with repeats from episodes 1 and 3)
16:48: small bit of footage restored using the MTV recording (no the jump cut was not an error on my part, it’s actually part of the source)
20:12 - 20:20: original “on the next Jackass” segment restored
20:21 - 21:23: used footage from the Lost Tapes bonus disk for the credits sequence, audio is from the MTV recording

-Episode 5:
3:14 - 3:50: original Chris Raab segment restored (replaced with a repeat from episode 1) (taken from The Lost Tapes)
5:37 - 5:41: brief amount of footage restored (taken from the Volume 1 DVD extras)
10:34 - 11:38: original song
11:38 - 11:44: original naked Dave segment restored (replaced with a repeat from episode 3)
13:18 - 13:26: original “coming up next” segment restored
17:45 - 20:05: original poo dive segment restored (replaced with a repeat from episode 3) (taken from the Volume 1 DVD)

-Episode 6:
2:59 - 3:22: original song
3:29 - 3:37: original song
6:46 - 7:13: original song
7:39 - 7:44: “coming up next” segment restored
8:36 - 9:39: original song
9:58 - 10:18: original song
10:36 - 11:01: original song
11:10 - 12:13: original song
13:04 - 13:36: original song
15:30 - 15:48: original song
17:04 - 17:35: original song
18:04 - 20:06: original song
20:07 - 20:17: “on the next Jackass” segment restored
20:43 - 20:59: original marching band audio restored

-Episode 7:
3:13 - 3:18: original Bam Margera segment restored (footage taken from The Lost Tapes, MTV audio used)
7:30 - 7:42: restored Ryan Dunn segment (footage taken from The Lost Tapes, MTV audio used)
12:34 - 12:40: restored Bam Margera segment (footage taken from The Lost Tapes, MTV audio used)

-Episode 8:
0:50 - 2:00: original song
2:14 - 2:22: MTV footage used to remove a “don’t try this at home” message that wasn’t in the original broadcast
3:35 - 5:29: original song
5:42 - 7:03: original song
7:18 - 7:32: MTV footage used to remove a “don’t try this at home” message that wasn’t in the original broadcast
9:40 - 10:29: original song
11:01 - 11:10: Lost Tapes footage used to remove a “don’t try this at home” message that wasn’t in the original broadcast
17:16 - 17:45: original song
17:52 - 20:28: original song

Season 2:
This season didn’t require nearly as much work as the first season did though some major censorship still happened. However, similar to the first season, a shot of Dave England puking was censored in the intro of these episodes (replaced with a shot of one of the guys rolling down the street on a toilet), so I restored the original shot to every episode as well. Also the first four episodes had an earlier, alternate version of the “WARNING” crossbones screen (which includes an alternate voice over for it) compared to the one seen in the second half of this season and the third season. Unfortunately the source I had for it wasn’t nearly as good as the alternate skull variant in the first season, so I had to do a tiny bit of reconstructing to restore it, but needless to say it’s back in the first four episodes now. Two episodes of this season though have the most baffling edits I’ve seen of the show, which is that both episodes for whatever reason have their proper season intros replaced with the season 1 intro, which makes 0 sense to me but either way I restored the correct intro to those episodes.

-Episode 9:
7:48 - 7:56: original song (very sloppily replaced in the Paramount+ version I have to say)
7:57 - 8:03: original “coming up next” segment restored
8:52 - 10:12: original song
11:37 - 13:45: song wasn’t replaced but the MTV audio sounded a lot better so it’s been utilized
14:13 - 15:34: original song
15:35 - 17:55: MTV audio used due to sounding a lot better than the Paramount+ audio (the latter even has some missing sound effects)

-Episode 10:
3:32 - 4:10: original fire extinguisher segment restored though some restoration work had to be used to restore the crossbones skull logo (primarily taken from The Lost Tapes, replaced with a repeat segment from episode 3)
3:43 - 3:48 some MTV footage had to be used along with the aforementioned crossbones logo being restored
10:20 - 10:32: original Bam Margera segment restored (mostly taken from The Lost Tapes, replaced with a repeat segment from episode 3)

-Episode 11:
3:04 - 3:17: original song
3:45 - 6:00: music specific moments used MTV audio due to sounding better than the Paramount+ audio (music itself remained unaltered)
6:29 - 7:46: original song
11:30 - 12:04: MTV audio used due to sounding better than the Paramount+ audio (music itself remained unaltered)
15:40 - 16:39: original song

-Episode 12:
7:04 - 8:34: original song

   -Episode 13:

1:57 - 3:28: original song (funnily enough the replacement is a cover version of this song)
3:05 - 3:13: MTV footage used to remove a “don’t try this at home” text not in the original broadcast
4:26 - 5:00: original song along with Phil’s singing and whistling are restored
11:45 - 12:19: original Raab Himself segment restored (taken from the Volume 2 DVD, replaced with a repeat segment from episode 15)
12:29 - 12:33: footage from the Turd source used to remove a “Tony Hawk is a professional” text not in the original broadcast
13:53 - 14:01: original “coming up next” segment restored
17:51 - 20:07: original Milk Challenge segment restored (taken from The Lost Tapes) (replaced with a repeat segment from episode 15)
18:03 - 19:52: original song
21:10 - 21:15: original credits footage restored (taken from The Lost Tapes special features)

-Episode 14:
3:23 - 3:40: original Dave England segment restored (taken from the Volume 2 DVD) (replaced with a repeat segment from episode 15)
7:31 - 9:24: original song
9:25 - 9:43: original Steve-O segment restored (taken from The Lost Tapes)
10:38 - 10:42: brief amount of footage restored using the MTV recording
11:35 - 11:36: very very brief amount of footage restored using the MTV recording
11:35 - 13:48: original Human Raft segment restored (footage taken from The Lost Tapes) (replaced with a repeat segment from episode 1)
11:35 - 13:48: original song
13:56 - 14:34: original song
18:01 - 19:25: music not replaced but MTV audio used due to sounding better
20:26 - 21:30: original unaltered credits footage restored (taken from The Lost Tapes special features)
20:52 - 21:30: MTV audio used due to having the audio for the unaltered footage and sounding better

   -Episode 15:

0:36 - 1:00: proper season 2 intro restored (replaced with season 1 intro)
1:41 - 3:46: original song
4:00 - 5:03: original song
7:21 - 8:04: original song
8:05 - 10:14: original song
16:38 - 17:10: original song
18:29 - 20:13: original song

   -Episode 16:

0:24 - 0:49: proper season 2 intro restored (replaced with the season 1 intro)
1:02 - 2:04: original song
2:31 - 2:44: original song
3:08 - 3:26: original song
4:22 - 5:28: original song
5:36 - 6:56: original song
11:07 - 13:31: original song
15:37 - 16:23: original song
16:41 - 17:23: original song
17:26 - 18:52: original song
19:26 - 20:26: original song (the altered song ended up bleeding into the “on the next Jackass” segment so that got fixed too)
20:35 - 20:42: original song

Season 3:
This season was the least edited in terms of censorship, but some censorship still occurred. Like for example, almost all references to Brad Pitt were removed in the episodes he appeared in (to the point of covering his face with a black bar in shots with his face). However, this season was the absolute worst with music edits because every episode pretty much had almost every single song removed. Also similar to the second season, a few episodes for some unexplainable reason replaced the season 3 intro with the one used in season 1. Also similar to the first two seasons, a shot of Dave England puking has been replaced with a shot of Johnny Knoxville falling down stairs while naked (which is actually the version used for the rest of the episodes for this season), but it’s fortunate that this only affected the first episode of this season. I also chose to utilize the DVD version of the Gumball Rally special because the audio sounded much better and for another unexplainable reason, the Paramount+ version is severely zoomed in on all four sides while the DVD was not. Neither was completely uncut, but they didn’t have cuts in the same place, so no TV footage had to be upscaled to make the complete episode. (funnily enough the DVD was less cut than the Paramount+ version)

   -Episode 17:

0:43 - 1:06: proper season 3 intro restored (replaced with season 1 intro)
0:59 - 1:02: alternate/differently edited shots restored to the intro (taken from their native episodes)
1:09 - 1:25: original song
2:10 - 2:39: original song
2:45 - 4:40: original song
5:03 - 7:11: original song
7:53 - 10:43: original song
10:44 - 10:57: original song
11:40 - 12:01: original song
12:11 - 12:23: original song
12:50 - 13:05: original song
14:31 - 14:53: original song
14:54 - 15:07: original “coming up next” segment restored
16:30 - 16:52: original song
16:53 - 20:21: original omelette segment restored (taken from the Volume 3 DVD) (replaced with repeats from episode 15)
20:22 - 20:30: original “on the next Jackass” segment restored using the Turd source
20:30 - 21:21: original credits footage restored (taken from The Lost Tapes special features) (funnily enough the audio remained unchanged), a hilariously sloppy edit was a single frame of one of the “original” shots that was altered still snuck in the Paramount+ version

   -Episode 18:

2:41 - 4:20: original song
4:49 - 6:21: original song
6:21 - 7:40: no music replaced but the MTV audio sounded better
7:44 - 7:48: MTV audio used because Paramount+ audio cut out too early
8:13 - 8:29: no music replaced but the MTV audio sounded better
9:01 - 9:31: no music replaced but the MTV audio sounded better
10:08 - 11:00: original song
14:04 - 14:12: MTV audio used because Paramount+ audio cut out too early

-Episode 19:
0:37 - 1:01: proper season 3 intro restored (replaced with season 1 intro)
1:29 - 1:59: original song
2:48 - 4:37: original song
4:38 - 6:10: original song
9:39 - 10:57: original song
12:35 - 13:45: original song
14:10 - 15:24: original song

-Episode 20:
1:10 - 3:31: original song
4:12 - 5:46: original song
8:54 - 10:02: original song
10:16 - 10:57: original song
12:09 - 12:18: original song
12:32 - 15:03: original song
16:33 - 17:35: no music replaced but the MTV audio sounded better

-Episode 21:
4:28 - 6:42: original song
7:00 - 8:13: original song
13:43 - 15:14: original song
15:40 - 17:14: original song

-Episode 22:
0:56 - 2:48: original song
2:49 - 3:26: original song
4:37 - 5:17: original song
13:59 - 14:37: original song
16:16 - 16:41: original song

-Episode 23:
3:53 - 4:39: original song
7:52 - 8:09: original “coming up next” segment and commercial fade-in intro restored using Paramount+ footage
8:37 - 9:14: original song
10:24 - 11:10: original song
14:46 - 15:41: original song
15:42 - 16:02: original “coming up next” segment and commercial fade-in intro restored using Paramount+ footage
24:49 - 25:27: original song
25:28 - 25:50: original “coming up next” segment and commercial fade-in intro restored using Paramount+ footage
26:25 - 27:37: original song
28:59 - 29:08: brief amount of Steve-O footage restored using Paramount+ footage
28:59 - 29:19: song restored to its original spot
35:15 - 35:35: original “coming up next” segment and commercial fade-in intro restored using Paramount+ footage
39:47 - 40:23: original song

-Episode 24:
0:25 - 0:48: proper season 3 intro restored (replaced with season 1 intro)
1:10 - 1:40: original song
1:45 - 3:07: original song
3:19 - 4:37: original song
4:38 - 6:29: original song
4:43: uncensored Brad Pitt credit restored (taken from the Volume 1 DVD special features)
6:08 - 6:12: brief amount of extra footage restored
6:59 - 8:03: original song
8:26 - 9:56: original song
11:53 - 13:18: original song
13:51 - 15:06: original song
16:11 - 16:59: original song
20:50 - 20:58: original uncensored Brad Pitt footage restored which had a face bar added in the Paramount+ version (taken from the Lost Tapes bonus disk)

   -Episode 25:

0:13 - 0:17: extra intro footage restored (taken from the Lost Tapes bonus disk)
1:01 - 1:23: proper season 3 intro restored (replaced with season 1 intro)
1:24 - 2:31: original Brad Pitt abduction segment restored (taken from the Volume 1 DVD special features)
2:31 - 2:40: original Chris Pontius segment restored, MTV footage used due to the Turd source having an extra logo not in the original broadcast
2:41 - 3:02: original song
3:12 - 4:00: original silence restored
4:00 - 4:21: MTV audio used due to the Paramount+ audio being edited to remove the song playing in background
5:01 - 5:43: original song
6:15 - 6:24: original song
6:51 - 7:04: original song
7:34 - 7:46: original song
8:24 - 9:40: original song
9:50 - 11:04: original song
11:04 - 11:22: original song
13:20 - 13:50: original song
14:08 - 15:22: original background silence restored
16:23 - 16:57: original Totem Pole segment restored using the Turd source, audio taken from the MTV recording
17:26 - 18:38: original song
18:39 - 18:54: original song
19:05 - 20:00: original song
20:49 - 20:50: original unbleeped audio restored
21:01 - 21:03: uncensored blackface footage restored (taken from the Lost Tapes bonus disk)
21:15 - 21:27: uncensored Brad Pitt footage and audio restored (footage taken from the Lost Tapes bonus disk), audio from the MTV recording used

Post
#1513756
Topic
List of films with lossless original tracks not available on Blu-ray or UHD
Time

jim_mar said:

Thank you, updated with your titles.

I’ve also added two more titles that I’ve found:

-Adventures in Babysitting, 1987 (Original lossless dolby stereo track) - blu-ray with 5.1
-Malcolm X, 1992 (Original lossless dolby stereo track) - blu-ray with 5.1

The original stereo mix for Star Trek: TMP is sort of available on 4K, the disk on the “complete adventure” set has it but only for the special longer version and is lossy (if you select the theatrical version you get the same previous 7.1 track)

Post
#1513551
Topic
Star Trek: The Original Series preservation (a WIP)
Time

yotsuya said:

PatrouilleduCosmos said:

I have made some side-by-side comparison between the US and Japanese LDs starting with the episode which has the most obvious audio changes, City on the Edge of Forever. I did encode both LDs with the exact same settings from my Pioneer player. Here’s a sample :

Picturewise, this is exactly the same transfer. Colors on the japanese release are a bit warmer, but this is the very same transfer. The exact same defects can be seen on both :

Surprisingly, the original “Goodnight Sweetheart” music has been kept on the Japanese LD, on both english and japanese tracks (even if the sleeve says the opposite).

There are some forced japanese subtitles here and there for scenes that haven’t been dubbed in Japan back in the 70s.

The Opening sequence looks like crap on the japanese LD and is from the second season. The original first season opening is on the bonus LD from the jap boxset.

The trailers are included AFTER each episode ending. Desilu/Paramount logos are not the same than on the US release. City on the edge have the Paramount zooming logo from 1968 whereas the US LD has the blue montain Paramount logo from the 70s.

The audio is of course much better on the japanese LD since its digital mono and can be transferred losslessly to a PC. The Japanese LDs also have chapters.

So yes, I would start from those japanese LDs, these are the only TOS release with the original digital mono sound.

Well, just from the scant details you included, the BR mono is the original. So the Japanese LD’s are not the only source.

Like I posted above, from what I can see from examining the audio streams, the original mono is preserved in the center channel of the 5.1 mix that first came out in 1999 in the 2 episode discs and then again in the clamshell box (which has Goodnight Sweetheart in City). The altered sounds are the mono sound, filtered and expanded to faux stereo, and added to the other channels in the mix to create a broader spacial feel to the sounds. They aren’t actually new sounds, but they are an alteration to the original, but the original is still there if you care to filter it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER6GsTr7I2o

This video is clearly taken from the 5.1 remix but has the OG visual effects, that “whoosh” at 0:25 is clearly a new sound effect and not the original 60s sound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGnTfg-MUhs
for reference, go to 0:24, this is the original 60s sound effect

Post
#1513295
Topic
Star Trek: The Original Series preservation (a WIP)
Time

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

PatrouilleduCosmos said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

As a Star Trek fan and as someone who took the time to rip the BR disc into my streaming collection with the original soundtrack and FX, here are my comments on the originality and quality.

First the series was indeed messed with, but this first happened back in the 60’s. There are records of what opening titles each episode initially had and several of them have been changed. But that was not a new change and it was done to the original negatives.

Second, a must have for anyone looking into this is the soundtrack box set. It has all the original recordings as well as the new titles recordings. From that it is clear that all of the BR original soundtracks have the original music. None of them have been updates with the new recordings.

I’ve been watching Star Trek TOS faithfully since 1984. I am very well acquainted with what we had back then vs. what we have now. The colors prior to the recent scans are horrible. The command uniforms wash out to gold from their original avocado yellow-green. That happened in some FX shots anyway, but most of the shots should show a distinct green tint. That is how you know you are looking at a good scan. This was confirmed by James Cawley who was friends with Bill Theiss and secured a sample of the original uniform material which verified that it had a distinct green tint. Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II and Star Trek Continues fan productions used the correct colors for their uniforms.

The remastered versions corrected many small inconsistencies in the episodes and those are NOT reflected in the original cuts. Some are very subtle and would be easy to miss, but they definitely are not there in the original versions included in the blu-ray set.

Prior to home video release, we were subjected to edited versions on TV. 4 minutes was cut from each episode. the first time most people saw these (who had not collected the VHS or LD releases) was when the SciFi Channel aired the extended versions with commentary in 90 minutes slots. They aired the episodes twice, once with Shatner introducing and once with Nimoy. While the episode cut is the same, those versions had incorrect colors.

I am satisfied that the episodes as delivered on Blu-Ray, when played in their original form, are indeed original. In order to create the remastered version, they went back to the original negatives and scanned them. This represents the best version of the episodes. If you want to undo how clean they made them, add some film grain, but there was no release prior that is as good. I’ve seen them all. My understanding is that was the first time they went back to the negatives so in terms of picture and sound, they should be the most authentic to how they were aired originally.

Now, The Cage. That is a different story entirely. Gene owned the negative and a B&W print. Both complete. I do not know what transpired exactly. I’m sure NBC viewed a color print, but no one has mentioned it. But when it came time to do The Menagerie, Gene brought in the negative for them to use. He expected them to copy it. Instead they cut it up. I’m not clear on the sound, but I think the sound was a separate element. The original sound appears to be lost. Gene’s B&W print made the convention circut and received some damage over the years. One section of dialog, which was captured by an in room audio recording by a fan, was lost. When they went to do the first VHS release, he wanted The Cage included so they made the hybrid one. They took the audio and video from The Menagerie and created the first mixed cut. This was the first most fans had seen this. Then a miraculous thing happened. The cut footage was found. So the next video release (The mixed version came out as episode 1, the restored version came out as episode 99 - I had both VHS tapes and was very pissed off that people thought 99 was colorized). And you can tell where the footage changes because it was not the same scan. They literally scanned the missing parts and edited them back in. But that missing dialog was not included. When they released the DVD version, both parts were scanned the same way so the footage was more consistent. When the BR came out, they had rescanned it again and you can’t tell the difference. But in each case the edit where there is missing footage is noticeable because the video is different in each edit. But really only in that one spot.

Now I can’t speak for the quality of the audio tracks on the LD vs. the DVD vs. the Blu-ray. I have not looked at those. But my experience with Star Wars indicates that those old LD AC3 tracks are as good as any modern soundtrack. The analog ones likely have more noise, and given the copy history of these episodes, probably has a lot more noise which is not original to the episodes. Until the remastered, they were using a film print as the source for all the home video releases. So the Remastered (and hence the original version on the Blu-ray) went back to the negatives and is made from the best sources. It should be the most faithful to the original you can get and I am satisfied with that. No, some of the episodes are not totally original as to how their originally aired, but they are faithful to their first rerun (Which is when some of the opening titles were changed).

But that soundtrack box set for TOS is a must for anyone investigating the sounds of TOS. It is full of information and glorious music (not just the often repeated tracks form previous TOS soundtrack releases).

Ok so from what it seems like you’re saying, the mono tracks on the BDs of TOS are not downmixes

Do they still have the new sound effects the remixes have anywhere?

No. Star Trek has always been mono. Every version I have had. The Remastered is the first to have any stereo. There are some very clear shots were you can tell. As I said, having that TOS soundtrack collection makes it very clear. Great liner notes. I’ll have to check if I still have the DVD set. I do have a few of the prior DVD release. But I had never heard the the main title in stereo until I put in the BR and watched the remastered version. And I’ve had a surround system for 30 years. I can’t speak for what container they loaded the sound into, but there was never any stereo effect or edit or surround ever. And mixing a mono track into a 5.1 container doesn’t mean they did anything other than mix it so it came out the right speakers (likely the center or front L/R). For instance. Every CD is stereo. Now whether that is duplicated mono tracks (as is the case with all the Star Trek TOS music), stereo recorded tracks, or matrixed surround (which can expand to up to 5 tracks via a decoder) is another matter. Same with DVD and BR audio. You can have mono, stereo, matrixed stereo, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, 1.1, 4.0, etc. It is a matter of compatibility with playback systems and what container they need to be in to work right. At that point it becomes a technical issue and not one of remixing the audio to something new. Don’t be fooled by a disc saying it has 5.1 surround. Star Trek was not mixed for surround until 2006, and even then only the opening titles and added sound FX. The mono track was contained for playback on 5.1 systems, nothing more. No FX were added, the music was mono. Even in the remastered there are minimal changes to the audio.

The old DVDs never had the mono mixes released, only the 5.1 tracks which added many new sound effects

There were 2 DVD releases. Which one? What sound FX were added?

The initial DVDs are where the 5.1 mixes originated despite having the OG visual effects, there were 2.0 tracks included but they were stereo downmixes of the 5.1 track

The BDs are the first home video release since VHS to have any mono mixes, and I heard from a few fans that they still had a few of the newer sound effects from the remixes

That is not quite accurate. I ripped the 2nd pilot from both DVD sources (already have the BD ripped). The original 1999 DVD release featured a 5.1 mix. Here is what it is. The original mono soundtrack as the center channel. Some sounds filtered to the left and right to create a stereo effect. Some sounds filtered to the surround and LFE channels. But the center channel is the original. The 2004 DVD clamshell set also has a stereo tack that has a stereo effect, likely just a mixdown of the surround as it has both 5.1 and 2.0. The remastered blu-ray set has a two channel mono soundtrack. There is a clear fidelity difference showing that the BR mono track came from a better source, using better equipment, or something else unique to get a crisper recorder. The video for the two DVD releases apppears to be identical there is a slight vertical adjustment, but the video and 5.1 tracks appear to be identical in every way.

Picture wise, the DVDs are an improvement over previous VHS and LD releases in the US. the Japanese LD set was a totaly different transfer using different techniques. Its quality compared to the US LD or DVD release would be comparably inferior to the BR image quality.

So to compare the sound for the original mono, you would need to extract the center channel out of the surround mix and the 2 channel mono from the BR. Also, BR discs have very high quality audio encoding and the audio track is sufficiently better quality that any possible loss is negligible.

so are the BD versions truly the original broadcast mono tracks or do they still have changes?

The remastered versions were made from a new transfer from the originals. The original version on the BR is the straight transfer after cleanup. All the changes are on the Remastered version.

The contents other channels in the surround mix is only music and sound FX. And they aren’t new, they are the originals. I can’t tell if they filtered them out of the original soundtrack or if they pulled out the tapes. My guess, from some of the volume changes is that it is filtered out of the original mono and then treated to a 4.1 channel mix to make the mono fill the space better. It isn’t actually stereo. you can tell it is just an effect to give the sound more body and presence. I’ve done that my self when including a mono track with stereo tracks to make it fit in better. I can’t hear any sound differences between the DVD surround center channel and the BR original mono.

As I look at the video, I have my doubts that they made a new transfer for the DVDs. It feels like it is the same master as the VHS/US LD. I don’t have either of those so I can’t compare them. But a lot of DVD’s that came out were from older masters. Video tape masters were high enough quality to make a good DVD release. A great many DVD releases in the 90’s were not new transfers. The DVD format alone makes older transfers look better. And coupled with some cleanup (which we know they did). But that is just supposition on my part. The colors in both DVD releases are more similar to the old VHS than to the BR. The DVD’s also match the source used for Trials and Tribbleations.

No there are definitely new sound effects in the 5.1/7.1 remixes

Please provide examples in the 2 non-Remastered DVD releases. Otherwise I will assume that the rest of the episodes are like WNMHGB and it is just enhancements to the mono track. And the DVD sets I’m referring to never had any 7.1 mixes, only 5.1. I think you are referring to the Remastered DVD set, which I had no use for so I never got. That only has the remastered episodes and those are indeed chock full of changes and additions where the partial 1999-2001 set I have and the complete 2004 clamshell set just have enhancements to the mono to make it feel stereo/surround (stereo was only on the 2004 set).

So 1999-2000 set the audio is 5.1 only
The 2004 set has 5.1 and 2.0 stereo (literally the same transfer as 1999-2001 with a stereo mixdown added)
The remastered DVD - I haven’t even checked
The Remastered BR - has the remastered versions and the original untouched episodes with original mono sound. It is a much higher quality transfer than the previous version. Crisper sound, full HD picture, improved colors more accurate to the original.

I would be interested to compare the LD video from US and Japan to these other transfers. I know the US LD and VHS used the same cover artwork so I would assume they have the same audio/video source (like so many releases at the time). The Japanese LD used to totally different source and would certainly be worth archiving.

Hi,
I find this topic very interesting in terms of preservation. I own pretty much any home video release of TOS (from 1999 US individual release, clamshell boxes PAL and NTSC, HDDVD, Blu Rays and also US and JAP LDs (only 1st season) as well TV recordings and French VHS). I made a backup of some episodes from the Laserdisc US release and will have a video coming comparing samples of the US and Jap releases.
I already noticed some changes like the sound of the phaser rifle in WNMHGB. The US LD release has this sound muted for some reason. Other releases starting from the DVD individual releases have put this sound back AND foreign language tracks also features this sound (and they’ve been untouched since their respective original broadcasts, at least for the french track).

The remix has an altered “whoosh” sound effect in the intro for the show compared to the original

Which intro? There were 4 (actually more, but most can’t hear the subtle difference in recordings). So WNMHGB, Season 1, Season 2, or Season 3?

I only got out Season 1 (because I only have the discs 1-8 and 40 of the 2 episode discs to compare the two DVD releases).

Every single one of them actually, I’m referring to whenever the ship flies by and the whoosh sound that occurs, it sounds far newer in the remix than the original mix

Post
#1513180
Topic
Star Trek: The Original Series preservation (a WIP)
Time

PatrouilleduCosmos said:

SpacemanDoug said:

PatrouilleduCosmos said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

As a Star Trek fan and as someone who took the time to rip the BR disc into my streaming collection with the original soundtrack and FX, here are my comments on the originality and quality.

First the series was indeed messed with, but this first happened back in the 60’s. There are records of what opening titles each episode initially had and several of them have been changed. But that was not a new change and it was done to the original negatives.

Second, a must have for anyone looking into this is the soundtrack box set. It has all the original recordings as well as the new titles recordings. From that it is clear that all of the BR original soundtracks have the original music. None of them have been updates with the new recordings.

I’ve been watching Star Trek TOS faithfully since 1984. I am very well acquainted with what we had back then vs. what we have now. The colors prior to the recent scans are horrible. The command uniforms wash out to gold from their original avocado yellow-green. That happened in some FX shots anyway, but most of the shots should show a distinct green tint. That is how you know you are looking at a good scan. This was confirmed by James Cawley who was friends with Bill Theiss and secured a sample of the original uniform material which verified that it had a distinct green tint. Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II and Star Trek Continues fan productions used the correct colors for their uniforms.

The remastered versions corrected many small inconsistencies in the episodes and those are NOT reflected in the original cuts. Some are very subtle and would be easy to miss, but they definitely are not there in the original versions included in the blu-ray set.

Prior to home video release, we were subjected to edited versions on TV. 4 minutes was cut from each episode. the first time most people saw these (who had not collected the VHS or LD releases) was when the SciFi Channel aired the extended versions with commentary in 90 minutes slots. They aired the episodes twice, once with Shatner introducing and once with Nimoy. While the episode cut is the same, those versions had incorrect colors.

I am satisfied that the episodes as delivered on Blu-Ray, when played in their original form, are indeed original. In order to create the remastered version, they went back to the original negatives and scanned them. This represents the best version of the episodes. If you want to undo how clean they made them, add some film grain, but there was no release prior that is as good. I’ve seen them all. My understanding is that was the first time they went back to the negatives so in terms of picture and sound, they should be the most authentic to how they were aired originally.

Now, The Cage. That is a different story entirely. Gene owned the negative and a B&W print. Both complete. I do not know what transpired exactly. I’m sure NBC viewed a color print, but no one has mentioned it. But when it came time to do The Menagerie, Gene brought in the negative for them to use. He expected them to copy it. Instead they cut it up. I’m not clear on the sound, but I think the sound was a separate element. The original sound appears to be lost. Gene’s B&W print made the convention circut and received some damage over the years. One section of dialog, which was captured by an in room audio recording by a fan, was lost. When they went to do the first VHS release, he wanted The Cage included so they made the hybrid one. They took the audio and video from The Menagerie and created the first mixed cut. This was the first most fans had seen this. Then a miraculous thing happened. The cut footage was found. So the next video release (The mixed version came out as episode 1, the restored version came out as episode 99 - I had both VHS tapes and was very pissed off that people thought 99 was colorized). And you can tell where the footage changes because it was not the same scan. They literally scanned the missing parts and edited them back in. But that missing dialog was not included. When they released the DVD version, both parts were scanned the same way so the footage was more consistent. When the BR came out, they had rescanned it again and you can’t tell the difference. But in each case the edit where there is missing footage is noticeable because the video is different in each edit. But really only in that one spot.

Now I can’t speak for the quality of the audio tracks on the LD vs. the DVD vs. the Blu-ray. I have not looked at those. But my experience with Star Wars indicates that those old LD AC3 tracks are as good as any modern soundtrack. The analog ones likely have more noise, and given the copy history of these episodes, probably has a lot more noise which is not original to the episodes. Until the remastered, they were using a film print as the source for all the home video releases. So the Remastered (and hence the original version on the Blu-ray) went back to the negatives and is made from the best sources. It should be the most faithful to the original you can get and I am satisfied with that. No, some of the episodes are not totally original as to how their originally aired, but they are faithful to their first rerun (Which is when some of the opening titles were changed).

But that soundtrack box set for TOS is a must for anyone investigating the sounds of TOS. It is full of information and glorious music (not just the often repeated tracks form previous TOS soundtrack releases).

Ok so from what it seems like you’re saying, the mono tracks on the BDs of TOS are not downmixes

Do they still have the new sound effects the remixes have anywhere?

No. Star Trek has always been mono. Every version I have had. The Remastered is the first to have any stereo. There are some very clear shots were you can tell. As I said, having that TOS soundtrack collection makes it very clear. Great liner notes. I’ll have to check if I still have the DVD set. I do have a few of the prior DVD release. But I had never heard the the main title in stereo until I put in the BR and watched the remastered version. And I’ve had a surround system for 30 years. I can’t speak for what container they loaded the sound into, but there was never any stereo effect or edit or surround ever. And mixing a mono track into a 5.1 container doesn’t mean they did anything other than mix it so it came out the right speakers (likely the center or front L/R). For instance. Every CD is stereo. Now whether that is duplicated mono tracks (as is the case with all the Star Trek TOS music), stereo recorded tracks, or matrixed surround (which can expand to up to 5 tracks via a decoder) is another matter. Same with DVD and BR audio. You can have mono, stereo, matrixed stereo, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, 1.1, 4.0, etc. It is a matter of compatibility with playback systems and what container they need to be in to work right. At that point it becomes a technical issue and not one of remixing the audio to something new. Don’t be fooled by a disc saying it has 5.1 surround. Star Trek was not mixed for surround until 2006, and even then only the opening titles and added sound FX. The mono track was contained for playback on 5.1 systems, nothing more. No FX were added, the music was mono. Even in the remastered there are minimal changes to the audio.

The old DVDs never had the mono mixes released, only the 5.1 tracks which added many new sound effects

There were 2 DVD releases. Which one? What sound FX were added?

The initial DVDs are where the 5.1 mixes originated despite having the OG visual effects, there were 2.0 tracks included but they were stereo downmixes of the 5.1 track

The BDs are the first home video release since VHS to have any mono mixes, and I heard from a few fans that they still had a few of the newer sound effects from the remixes

That is not quite accurate. I ripped the 2nd pilot from both DVD sources (already have the BD ripped). The original 1999 DVD release featured a 5.1 mix. Here is what it is. The original mono soundtrack as the center channel. Some sounds filtered to the left and right to create a stereo effect. Some sounds filtered to the surround and LFE channels. But the center channel is the original. The 2004 DVD clamshell set also has a stereo tack that has a stereo effect, likely just a mixdown of the surround as it has both 5.1 and 2.0. The remastered blu-ray set has a two channel mono soundtrack. There is a clear fidelity difference showing that the BR mono track came from a better source, using better equipment, or something else unique to get a crisper recorder. The video for the two DVD releases apppears to be identical there is a slight vertical adjustment, but the video and 5.1 tracks appear to be identical in every way.

Picture wise, the DVDs are an improvement over previous VHS and LD releases in the US. the Japanese LD set was a totaly different transfer using different techniques. Its quality compared to the US LD or DVD release would be comparably inferior to the BR image quality.

So to compare the sound for the original mono, you would need to extract the center channel out of the surround mix and the 2 channel mono from the BR. Also, BR discs have very high quality audio encoding and the audio track is sufficiently better quality that any possible loss is negligible.

so are the BD versions truly the original broadcast mono tracks or do they still have changes?

The remastered versions were made from a new transfer from the originals. The original version on the BR is the straight transfer after cleanup. All the changes are on the Remastered version.

The contents other channels in the surround mix is only music and sound FX. And they aren’t new, they are the originals. I can’t tell if they filtered them out of the original soundtrack or if they pulled out the tapes. My guess, from some of the volume changes is that it is filtered out of the original mono and then treated to a 4.1 channel mix to make the mono fill the space better. It isn’t actually stereo. you can tell it is just an effect to give the sound more body and presence. I’ve done that my self when including a mono track with stereo tracks to make it fit in better. I can’t hear any sound differences between the DVD surround center channel and the BR original mono.

As I look at the video, I have my doubts that they made a new transfer for the DVDs. It feels like it is the same master as the VHS/US LD. I don’t have either of those so I can’t compare them. But a lot of DVD’s that came out were from older masters. Video tape masters were high enough quality to make a good DVD release. A great many DVD releases in the 90’s were not new transfers. The DVD format alone makes older transfers look better. And coupled with some cleanup (which we know they did). But that is just supposition on my part. The colors in both DVD releases are more similar to the old VHS than to the BR. The DVD’s also match the source used for Trials and Tribbleations.

No there are definitely new sound effects in the 5.1/7.1 remixes

Please provide examples in the 2 non-Remastered DVD releases. Otherwise I will assume that the rest of the episodes are like WNMHGB and it is just enhancements to the mono track. And the DVD sets I’m referring to never had any 7.1 mixes, only 5.1. I think you are referring to the Remastered DVD set, which I had no use for so I never got. That only has the remastered episodes and those are indeed chock full of changes and additions where the partial 1999-2001 set I have and the complete 2004 clamshell set just have enhancements to the mono to make it feel stereo/surround (stereo was only on the 2004 set).

So 1999-2000 set the audio is 5.1 only
The 2004 set has 5.1 and 2.0 stereo (literally the same transfer as 1999-2001 with a stereo mixdown added)
The remastered DVD - I haven’t even checked
The Remastered BR - has the remastered versions and the original untouched episodes with original mono sound. It is a much higher quality transfer than the previous version. Crisper sound, full HD picture, improved colors more accurate to the original.

I would be interested to compare the LD video from US and Japan to these other transfers. I know the US LD and VHS used the same cover artwork so I would assume they have the same audio/video source (like so many releases at the time). The Japanese LD used to totally different source and would certainly be worth archiving.

Hi,
I find this topic very interesting in terms of preservation. I own pretty much any home video release of TOS (from 1999 US individual release, clamshell boxes PAL and NTSC, HDDVD, Blu Rays and also US and JAP LDs (only 1st season) as well TV recordings and French VHS). I made a backup of some episodes from the Laserdisc US release and will have a video coming comparing samples of the US and Jap releases.
I already noticed some changes like the sound of the phaser rifle in WNMHGB. The US LD release has this sound muted for some reason. Other releases starting from the DVD individual releases have put this sound back AND foreign language tracks also features this sound (and they’ve been untouched since their respective original broadcasts, at least for the french track).

The remix has an altered “whoosh” sound effect in the intro for the show compared to the original

You’re right. The opening in the laserdiscs and non-remastered DVDs have no swoosh.

I actually did hear comparisons of the original mono mixes vs. the remixes and the remixes definitely have new sound effects

Post
#1512959
Topic
Star Trek: The Original Series preservation (a WIP)
Time

PatrouilleduCosmos said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

As a Star Trek fan and as someone who took the time to rip the BR disc into my streaming collection with the original soundtrack and FX, here are my comments on the originality and quality.

First the series was indeed messed with, but this first happened back in the 60’s. There are records of what opening titles each episode initially had and several of them have been changed. But that was not a new change and it was done to the original negatives.

Second, a must have for anyone looking into this is the soundtrack box set. It has all the original recordings as well as the new titles recordings. From that it is clear that all of the BR original soundtracks have the original music. None of them have been updates with the new recordings.

I’ve been watching Star Trek TOS faithfully since 1984. I am very well acquainted with what we had back then vs. what we have now. The colors prior to the recent scans are horrible. The command uniforms wash out to gold from their original avocado yellow-green. That happened in some FX shots anyway, but most of the shots should show a distinct green tint. That is how you know you are looking at a good scan. This was confirmed by James Cawley who was friends with Bill Theiss and secured a sample of the original uniform material which verified that it had a distinct green tint. Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II and Star Trek Continues fan productions used the correct colors for their uniforms.

The remastered versions corrected many small inconsistencies in the episodes and those are NOT reflected in the original cuts. Some are very subtle and would be easy to miss, but they definitely are not there in the original versions included in the blu-ray set.

Prior to home video release, we were subjected to edited versions on TV. 4 minutes was cut from each episode. the first time most people saw these (who had not collected the VHS or LD releases) was when the SciFi Channel aired the extended versions with commentary in 90 minutes slots. They aired the episodes twice, once with Shatner introducing and once with Nimoy. While the episode cut is the same, those versions had incorrect colors.

I am satisfied that the episodes as delivered on Blu-Ray, when played in their original form, are indeed original. In order to create the remastered version, they went back to the original negatives and scanned them. This represents the best version of the episodes. If you want to undo how clean they made them, add some film grain, but there was no release prior that is as good. I’ve seen them all. My understanding is that was the first time they went back to the negatives so in terms of picture and sound, they should be the most authentic to how they were aired originally.

Now, The Cage. That is a different story entirely. Gene owned the negative and a B&W print. Both complete. I do not know what transpired exactly. I’m sure NBC viewed a color print, but no one has mentioned it. But when it came time to do The Menagerie, Gene brought in the negative for them to use. He expected them to copy it. Instead they cut it up. I’m not clear on the sound, but I think the sound was a separate element. The original sound appears to be lost. Gene’s B&W print made the convention circut and received some damage over the years. One section of dialog, which was captured by an in room audio recording by a fan, was lost. When they went to do the first VHS release, he wanted The Cage included so they made the hybrid one. They took the audio and video from The Menagerie and created the first mixed cut. This was the first most fans had seen this. Then a miraculous thing happened. The cut footage was found. So the next video release (The mixed version came out as episode 1, the restored version came out as episode 99 - I had both VHS tapes and was very pissed off that people thought 99 was colorized). And you can tell where the footage changes because it was not the same scan. They literally scanned the missing parts and edited them back in. But that missing dialog was not included. When they released the DVD version, both parts were scanned the same way so the footage was more consistent. When the BR came out, they had rescanned it again and you can’t tell the difference. But in each case the edit where there is missing footage is noticeable because the video is different in each edit. But really only in that one spot.

Now I can’t speak for the quality of the audio tracks on the LD vs. the DVD vs. the Blu-ray. I have not looked at those. But my experience with Star Wars indicates that those old LD AC3 tracks are as good as any modern soundtrack. The analog ones likely have more noise, and given the copy history of these episodes, probably has a lot more noise which is not original to the episodes. Until the remastered, they were using a film print as the source for all the home video releases. So the Remastered (and hence the original version on the Blu-ray) went back to the negatives and is made from the best sources. It should be the most faithful to the original you can get and I am satisfied with that. No, some of the episodes are not totally original as to how their originally aired, but they are faithful to their first rerun (Which is when some of the opening titles were changed).

But that soundtrack box set for TOS is a must for anyone investigating the sounds of TOS. It is full of information and glorious music (not just the often repeated tracks form previous TOS soundtrack releases).

Ok so from what it seems like you’re saying, the mono tracks on the BDs of TOS are not downmixes

Do they still have the new sound effects the remixes have anywhere?

No. Star Trek has always been mono. Every version I have had. The Remastered is the first to have any stereo. There are some very clear shots were you can tell. As I said, having that TOS soundtrack collection makes it very clear. Great liner notes. I’ll have to check if I still have the DVD set. I do have a few of the prior DVD release. But I had never heard the the main title in stereo until I put in the BR and watched the remastered version. And I’ve had a surround system for 30 years. I can’t speak for what container they loaded the sound into, but there was never any stereo effect or edit or surround ever. And mixing a mono track into a 5.1 container doesn’t mean they did anything other than mix it so it came out the right speakers (likely the center or front L/R). For instance. Every CD is stereo. Now whether that is duplicated mono tracks (as is the case with all the Star Trek TOS music), stereo recorded tracks, or matrixed surround (which can expand to up to 5 tracks via a decoder) is another matter. Same with DVD and BR audio. You can have mono, stereo, matrixed stereo, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, 1.1, 4.0, etc. It is a matter of compatibility with playback systems and what container they need to be in to work right. At that point it becomes a technical issue and not one of remixing the audio to something new. Don’t be fooled by a disc saying it has 5.1 surround. Star Trek was not mixed for surround until 2006, and even then only the opening titles and added sound FX. The mono track was contained for playback on 5.1 systems, nothing more. No FX were added, the music was mono. Even in the remastered there are minimal changes to the audio.

The old DVDs never had the mono mixes released, only the 5.1 tracks which added many new sound effects

There were 2 DVD releases. Which one? What sound FX were added?

The initial DVDs are where the 5.1 mixes originated despite having the OG visual effects, there were 2.0 tracks included but they were stereo downmixes of the 5.1 track

The BDs are the first home video release since VHS to have any mono mixes, and I heard from a few fans that they still had a few of the newer sound effects from the remixes

That is not quite accurate. I ripped the 2nd pilot from both DVD sources (already have the BD ripped). The original 1999 DVD release featured a 5.1 mix. Here is what it is. The original mono soundtrack as the center channel. Some sounds filtered to the left and right to create a stereo effect. Some sounds filtered to the surround and LFE channels. But the center channel is the original. The 2004 DVD clamshell set also has a stereo tack that has a stereo effect, likely just a mixdown of the surround as it has both 5.1 and 2.0. The remastered blu-ray set has a two channel mono soundtrack. There is a clear fidelity difference showing that the BR mono track came from a better source, using better equipment, or something else unique to get a crisper recorder. The video for the two DVD releases apppears to be identical there is a slight vertical adjustment, but the video and 5.1 tracks appear to be identical in every way.

Picture wise, the DVDs are an improvement over previous VHS and LD releases in the US. the Japanese LD set was a totaly different transfer using different techniques. Its quality compared to the US LD or DVD release would be comparably inferior to the BR image quality.

So to compare the sound for the original mono, you would need to extract the center channel out of the surround mix and the 2 channel mono from the BR. Also, BR discs have very high quality audio encoding and the audio track is sufficiently better quality that any possible loss is negligible.

so are the BD versions truly the original broadcast mono tracks or do they still have changes?

The remastered versions were made from a new transfer from the originals. The original version on the BR is the straight transfer after cleanup. All the changes are on the Remastered version.

The contents other channels in the surround mix is only music and sound FX. And they aren’t new, they are the originals. I can’t tell if they filtered them out of the original soundtrack or if they pulled out the tapes. My guess, from some of the volume changes is that it is filtered out of the original mono and then treated to a 4.1 channel mix to make the mono fill the space better. It isn’t actually stereo. you can tell it is just an effect to give the sound more body and presence. I’ve done that my self when including a mono track with stereo tracks to make it fit in better. I can’t hear any sound differences between the DVD surround center channel and the BR original mono.

As I look at the video, I have my doubts that they made a new transfer for the DVDs. It feels like it is the same master as the VHS/US LD. I don’t have either of those so I can’t compare them. But a lot of DVD’s that came out were from older masters. Video tape masters were high enough quality to make a good DVD release. A great many DVD releases in the 90’s were not new transfers. The DVD format alone makes older transfers look better. And coupled with some cleanup (which we know they did). But that is just supposition on my part. The colors in both DVD releases are more similar to the old VHS than to the BR. The DVD’s also match the source used for Trials and Tribbleations.

No there are definitely new sound effects in the 5.1/7.1 remixes

Please provide examples in the 2 non-Remastered DVD releases. Otherwise I will assume that the rest of the episodes are like WNMHGB and it is just enhancements to the mono track. And the DVD sets I’m referring to never had any 7.1 mixes, only 5.1. I think you are referring to the Remastered DVD set, which I had no use for so I never got. That only has the remastered episodes and those are indeed chock full of changes and additions where the partial 1999-2001 set I have and the complete 2004 clamshell set just have enhancements to the mono to make it feel stereo/surround (stereo was only on the 2004 set).

So 1999-2000 set the audio is 5.1 only
The 2004 set has 5.1 and 2.0 stereo (literally the same transfer as 1999-2001 with a stereo mixdown added)
The remastered DVD - I haven’t even checked
The Remastered BR - has the remastered versions and the original untouched episodes with original mono sound. It is a much higher quality transfer than the previous version. Crisper sound, full HD picture, improved colors more accurate to the original.

I would be interested to compare the LD video from US and Japan to these other transfers. I know the US LD and VHS used the same cover artwork so I would assume they have the same audio/video source (like so many releases at the time). The Japanese LD used to totally different source and would certainly be worth archiving.

Hi,
I find this topic very interesting in terms of preservation. I own pretty much any home video release of TOS (from 1999 US individual release, clamshell boxes PAL and NTSC, HDDVD, Blu Rays and also US and JAP LDs (only 1st season) as well TV recordings and French VHS). I made a backup of some episodes from the Laserdisc US release and will have a video coming comparing samples of the US and Jap releases.
I already noticed some changes like the sound of the phaser rifle in WNMHGB. The US LD release has this sound muted for some reason. Other releases starting from the DVD individual releases have put this sound back AND foreign language tracks also features this sound (and they’ve been untouched since their respective original broadcasts, at least for the french track).

The remix has an altered “whoosh” sound effect in the intro for the show compared to the original

Post
#1512705
Topic
Star Trek: The Original Series preservation (a WIP)
Time

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

As a Star Trek fan and as someone who took the time to rip the BR disc into my streaming collection with the original soundtrack and FX, here are my comments on the originality and quality.

First the series was indeed messed with, but this first happened back in the 60’s. There are records of what opening titles each episode initially had and several of them have been changed. But that was not a new change and it was done to the original negatives.

Second, a must have for anyone looking into this is the soundtrack box set. It has all the original recordings as well as the new titles recordings. From that it is clear that all of the BR original soundtracks have the original music. None of them have been updates with the new recordings.

I’ve been watching Star Trek TOS faithfully since 1984. I am very well acquainted with what we had back then vs. what we have now. The colors prior to the recent scans are horrible. The command uniforms wash out to gold from their original avocado yellow-green. That happened in some FX shots anyway, but most of the shots should show a distinct green tint. That is how you know you are looking at a good scan. This was confirmed by James Cawley who was friends with Bill Theiss and secured a sample of the original uniform material which verified that it had a distinct green tint. Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II and Star Trek Continues fan productions used the correct colors for their uniforms.

The remastered versions corrected many small inconsistencies in the episodes and those are NOT reflected in the original cuts. Some are very subtle and would be easy to miss, but they definitely are not there in the original versions included in the blu-ray set.

Prior to home video release, we were subjected to edited versions on TV. 4 minutes was cut from each episode. the first time most people saw these (who had not collected the VHS or LD releases) was when the SciFi Channel aired the extended versions with commentary in 90 minutes slots. They aired the episodes twice, once with Shatner introducing and once with Nimoy. While the episode cut is the same, those versions had incorrect colors.

I am satisfied that the episodes as delivered on Blu-Ray, when played in their original form, are indeed original. In order to create the remastered version, they went back to the original negatives and scanned them. This represents the best version of the episodes. If you want to undo how clean they made them, add some film grain, but there was no release prior that is as good. I’ve seen them all. My understanding is that was the first time they went back to the negatives so in terms of picture and sound, they should be the most authentic to how they were aired originally.

Now, The Cage. That is a different story entirely. Gene owned the negative and a B&W print. Both complete. I do not know what transpired exactly. I’m sure NBC viewed a color print, but no one has mentioned it. But when it came time to do The Menagerie, Gene brought in the negative for them to use. He expected them to copy it. Instead they cut it up. I’m not clear on the sound, but I think the sound was a separate element. The original sound appears to be lost. Gene’s B&W print made the convention circut and received some damage over the years. One section of dialog, which was captured by an in room audio recording by a fan, was lost. When they went to do the first VHS release, he wanted The Cage included so they made the hybrid one. They took the audio and video from The Menagerie and created the first mixed cut. This was the first most fans had seen this. Then a miraculous thing happened. The cut footage was found. So the next video release (The mixed version came out as episode 1, the restored version came out as episode 99 - I had both VHS tapes and was very pissed off that people thought 99 was colorized). And you can tell where the footage changes because it was not the same scan. They literally scanned the missing parts and edited them back in. But that missing dialog was not included. When they released the DVD version, both parts were scanned the same way so the footage was more consistent. When the BR came out, they had rescanned it again and you can’t tell the difference. But in each case the edit where there is missing footage is noticeable because the video is different in each edit. But really only in that one spot.

Now I can’t speak for the quality of the audio tracks on the LD vs. the DVD vs. the Blu-ray. I have not looked at those. But my experience with Star Wars indicates that those old LD AC3 tracks are as good as any modern soundtrack. The analog ones likely have more noise, and given the copy history of these episodes, probably has a lot more noise which is not original to the episodes. Until the remastered, they were using a film print as the source for all the home video releases. So the Remastered (and hence the original version on the Blu-ray) went back to the negatives and is made from the best sources. It should be the most faithful to the original you can get and I am satisfied with that. No, some of the episodes are not totally original as to how their originally aired, but they are faithful to their first rerun (Which is when some of the opening titles were changed).

But that soundtrack box set for TOS is a must for anyone investigating the sounds of TOS. It is full of information and glorious music (not just the often repeated tracks form previous TOS soundtrack releases).

Ok so from what it seems like you’re saying, the mono tracks on the BDs of TOS are not downmixes

Do they still have the new sound effects the remixes have anywhere?

No. Star Trek has always been mono. Every version I have had. The Remastered is the first to have any stereo. There are some very clear shots were you can tell. As I said, having that TOS soundtrack collection makes it very clear. Great liner notes. I’ll have to check if I still have the DVD set. I do have a few of the prior DVD release. But I had never heard the the main title in stereo until I put in the BR and watched the remastered version. And I’ve had a surround system for 30 years. I can’t speak for what container they loaded the sound into, but there was never any stereo effect or edit or surround ever. And mixing a mono track into a 5.1 container doesn’t mean they did anything other than mix it so it came out the right speakers (likely the center or front L/R). For instance. Every CD is stereo. Now whether that is duplicated mono tracks (as is the case with all the Star Trek TOS music), stereo recorded tracks, or matrixed surround (which can expand to up to 5 tracks via a decoder) is another matter. Same with DVD and BR audio. You can have mono, stereo, matrixed stereo, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, 1.1, 4.0, etc. It is a matter of compatibility with playback systems and what container they need to be in to work right. At that point it becomes a technical issue and not one of remixing the audio to something new. Don’t be fooled by a disc saying it has 5.1 surround. Star Trek was not mixed for surround until 2006, and even then only the opening titles and added sound FX. The mono track was contained for playback on 5.1 systems, nothing more. No FX were added, the music was mono. Even in the remastered there are minimal changes to the audio.

The old DVDs never had the mono mixes released, only the 5.1 tracks which added many new sound effects

There were 2 DVD releases. Which one? What sound FX were added?

The initial DVDs are where the 5.1 mixes originated despite having the OG visual effects, there were 2.0 tracks included but they were stereo downmixes of the 5.1 track

The BDs are the first home video release since VHS to have any mono mixes, and I heard from a few fans that they still had a few of the newer sound effects from the remixes

That is not quite accurate. I ripped the 2nd pilot from both DVD sources (already have the BD ripped). The original 1999 DVD release featured a 5.1 mix. Here is what it is. The original mono soundtrack as the center channel. Some sounds filtered to the left and right to create a stereo effect. Some sounds filtered to the surround and LFE channels. But the center channel is the original. The 2004 DVD clamshell set also has a stereo tack that has a stereo effect, likely just a mixdown of the surround as it has both 5.1 and 2.0. The remastered blu-ray set has a two channel mono soundtrack. There is a clear fidelity difference showing that the BR mono track came from a better source, using better equipment, or something else unique to get a crisper recorder. The video for the two DVD releases apppears to be identical there is a slight vertical adjustment, but the video and 5.1 tracks appear to be identical in every way.

Picture wise, the DVDs are an improvement over previous VHS and LD releases in the US. the Japanese LD set was a totaly different transfer using different techniques. Its quality compared to the US LD or DVD release would be comparably inferior to the BR image quality.

So to compare the sound for the original mono, you would need to extract the center channel out of the surround mix and the 2 channel mono from the BR. Also, BR discs have very high quality audio encoding and the audio track is sufficiently better quality that any possible loss is negligible.

so are the BD versions truly the original broadcast mono tracks or do they still have changes?

The remastered versions were made from a new transfer from the originals. The original version on the BR is the straight transfer after cleanup. All the changes are on the Remastered version.

The contents other channels in the surround mix is only music and sound FX. And they aren’t new, they are the originals. I can’t tell if they filtered them out of the original soundtrack or if they pulled out the tapes. My guess, from some of the volume changes is that it is filtered out of the original mono and then treated to a 4.1 channel mix to make the mono fill the space better. It isn’t actually stereo. you can tell it is just an effect to give the sound more body and presence. I’ve done that my self when including a mono track with stereo tracks to make it fit in better. I can’t hear any sound differences between the DVD surround center channel and the BR original mono.

As I look at the video, I have my doubts that they made a new transfer for the DVDs. It feels like it is the same master as the VHS/US LD. I don’t have either of those so I can’t compare them. But a lot of DVD’s that came out were from older masters. Video tape masters were high enough quality to make a good DVD release. A great many DVD releases in the 90’s were not new transfers. The DVD format alone makes older transfers look better. And coupled with some cleanup (which we know they did). But that is just supposition on my part. The colors in both DVD releases are more similar to the old VHS than to the BR. The DVD’s also match the source used for Trials and Tribbleations.

No there are definitely new sound effects in the 5.1/7.1 remixes

Please provide examples in the 2 non-Remastered DVD releases. Otherwise I will assume that the rest of the episodes are like WNMHGB and it is just enhancements to the mono track. And the DVD sets I’m referring to never had any 7.1 mixes, only 5.1. I think you are referring to the Remastered DVD set, which I had no use for so I never got. That only has the remastered episodes and those are indeed chock full of changes and additions where the partial 1999-2001 set I have and the complete 2004 clamshell set just have enhancements to the mono to make it feel stereo/surround (stereo was only on the 2004 set).

So 1999-2000 set the audio is 5.1 only
The 2004 set has 5.1 and 2.0 stereo (literally the same transfer as 1999-2001 with a stereo mixdown added)
The remastered DVD - I haven’t even checked
The Remastered BR - has the remastered versions and the original untouched episodes with original mono sound. It is a much higher quality transfer than the previous version. Crisper sound, full HD picture, improved colors more accurate to the original.

I would be interested to compare the LD video from US and Japan to these other transfers. I know the US LD and VHS used the same cover artwork so I would assume they have the same audio/video source (like so many releases at the time). The Japanese LD used to totally different source and would certainly be worth archiving.

I saw a DVD rip somewhere with the OG effects but with the 5.1 remixes and I noticed new sounds

I can’t provide them myself unfortunately

Post
#1512561
Topic
Star Trek: The Original Series preservation (a WIP)
Time

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

As a Star Trek fan and as someone who took the time to rip the BR disc into my streaming collection with the original soundtrack and FX, here are my comments on the originality and quality.

First the series was indeed messed with, but this first happened back in the 60’s. There are records of what opening titles each episode initially had and several of them have been changed. But that was not a new change and it was done to the original negatives.

Second, a must have for anyone looking into this is the soundtrack box set. It has all the original recordings as well as the new titles recordings. From that it is clear that all of the BR original soundtracks have the original music. None of them have been updates with the new recordings.

I’ve been watching Star Trek TOS faithfully since 1984. I am very well acquainted with what we had back then vs. what we have now. The colors prior to the recent scans are horrible. The command uniforms wash out to gold from their original avocado yellow-green. That happened in some FX shots anyway, but most of the shots should show a distinct green tint. That is how you know you are looking at a good scan. This was confirmed by James Cawley who was friends with Bill Theiss and secured a sample of the original uniform material which verified that it had a distinct green tint. Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II and Star Trek Continues fan productions used the correct colors for their uniforms.

The remastered versions corrected many small inconsistencies in the episodes and those are NOT reflected in the original cuts. Some are very subtle and would be easy to miss, but they definitely are not there in the original versions included in the blu-ray set.

Prior to home video release, we were subjected to edited versions on TV. 4 minutes was cut from each episode. the first time most people saw these (who had not collected the VHS or LD releases) was when the SciFi Channel aired the extended versions with commentary in 90 minutes slots. They aired the episodes twice, once with Shatner introducing and once with Nimoy. While the episode cut is the same, those versions had incorrect colors.

I am satisfied that the episodes as delivered on Blu-Ray, when played in their original form, are indeed original. In order to create the remastered version, they went back to the original negatives and scanned them. This represents the best version of the episodes. If you want to undo how clean they made them, add some film grain, but there was no release prior that is as good. I’ve seen them all. My understanding is that was the first time they went back to the negatives so in terms of picture and sound, they should be the most authentic to how they were aired originally.

Now, The Cage. That is a different story entirely. Gene owned the negative and a B&W print. Both complete. I do not know what transpired exactly. I’m sure NBC viewed a color print, but no one has mentioned it. But when it came time to do The Menagerie, Gene brought in the negative for them to use. He expected them to copy it. Instead they cut it up. I’m not clear on the sound, but I think the sound was a separate element. The original sound appears to be lost. Gene’s B&W print made the convention circut and received some damage over the years. One section of dialog, which was captured by an in room audio recording by a fan, was lost. When they went to do the first VHS release, he wanted The Cage included so they made the hybrid one. They took the audio and video from The Menagerie and created the first mixed cut. This was the first most fans had seen this. Then a miraculous thing happened. The cut footage was found. So the next video release (The mixed version came out as episode 1, the restored version came out as episode 99 - I had both VHS tapes and was very pissed off that people thought 99 was colorized). And you can tell where the footage changes because it was not the same scan. They literally scanned the missing parts and edited them back in. But that missing dialog was not included. When they released the DVD version, both parts were scanned the same way so the footage was more consistent. When the BR came out, they had rescanned it again and you can’t tell the difference. But in each case the edit where there is missing footage is noticeable because the video is different in each edit. But really only in that one spot.

Now I can’t speak for the quality of the audio tracks on the LD vs. the DVD vs. the Blu-ray. I have not looked at those. But my experience with Star Wars indicates that those old LD AC3 tracks are as good as any modern soundtrack. The analog ones likely have more noise, and given the copy history of these episodes, probably has a lot more noise which is not original to the episodes. Until the remastered, they were using a film print as the source for all the home video releases. So the Remastered (and hence the original version on the Blu-ray) went back to the negatives and is made from the best sources. It should be the most faithful to the original you can get and I am satisfied with that. No, some of the episodes are not totally original as to how their originally aired, but they are faithful to their first rerun (Which is when some of the opening titles were changed).

But that soundtrack box set for TOS is a must for anyone investigating the sounds of TOS. It is full of information and glorious music (not just the often repeated tracks form previous TOS soundtrack releases).

Ok so from what it seems like you’re saying, the mono tracks on the BDs of TOS are not downmixes

Do they still have the new sound effects the remixes have anywhere?

No. Star Trek has always been mono. Every version I have had. The Remastered is the first to have any stereo. There are some very clear shots were you can tell. As I said, having that TOS soundtrack collection makes it very clear. Great liner notes. I’ll have to check if I still have the DVD set. I do have a few of the prior DVD release. But I had never heard the the main title in stereo until I put in the BR and watched the remastered version. And I’ve had a surround system for 30 years. I can’t speak for what container they loaded the sound into, but there was never any stereo effect or edit or surround ever. And mixing a mono track into a 5.1 container doesn’t mean they did anything other than mix it so it came out the right speakers (likely the center or front L/R). For instance. Every CD is stereo. Now whether that is duplicated mono tracks (as is the case with all the Star Trek TOS music), stereo recorded tracks, or matrixed surround (which can expand to up to 5 tracks via a decoder) is another matter. Same with DVD and BR audio. You can have mono, stereo, matrixed stereo, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, 1.1, 4.0, etc. It is a matter of compatibility with playback systems and what container they need to be in to work right. At that point it becomes a technical issue and not one of remixing the audio to something new. Don’t be fooled by a disc saying it has 5.1 surround. Star Trek was not mixed for surround until 2006, and even then only the opening titles and added sound FX. The mono track was contained for playback on 5.1 systems, nothing more. No FX were added, the music was mono. Even in the remastered there are minimal changes to the audio.

The old DVDs never had the mono mixes released, only the 5.1 tracks which added many new sound effects

There were 2 DVD releases. Which one? What sound FX were added?

The initial DVDs are where the 5.1 mixes originated despite having the OG visual effects, there were 2.0 tracks included but they were stereo downmixes of the 5.1 track

The BDs are the first home video release since VHS to have any mono mixes, and I heard from a few fans that they still had a few of the newer sound effects from the remixes

That is not quite accurate. I ripped the 2nd pilot from both DVD sources (already have the BD ripped). The original 1999 DVD release featured a 5.1 mix. Here is what it is. The original mono soundtrack as the center channel. Some sounds filtered to the left and right to create a stereo effect. Some sounds filtered to the surround and LFE channels. But the center channel is the original. The 2004 DVD clamshell set also has a stereo tack that has a stereo effect, likely just a mixdown of the surround as it has both 5.1 and 2.0. The remastered blu-ray set has a two channel mono soundtrack. There is a clear fidelity difference showing that the BR mono track came from a better source, using better equipment, or something else unique to get a crisper recorder. The video for the two DVD releases apppears to be identical there is a slight vertical adjustment, but the video and 5.1 tracks appear to be identical in every way.

Picture wise, the DVDs are an improvement over previous VHS and LD releases in the US. the Japanese LD set was a totaly different transfer using different techniques. Its quality compared to the US LD or DVD release would be comparably inferior to the BR image quality.

So to compare the sound for the original mono, you would need to extract the center channel out of the surround mix and the 2 channel mono from the BR. Also, BR discs have very high quality audio encoding and the audio track is sufficiently better quality that any possible loss is negligible.

so are the BD versions truly the original broadcast mono tracks or do they still have changes?

The remastered versions were made from a new transfer from the originals. The original version on the BR is the straight transfer after cleanup. All the changes are on the Remastered version.

The contents other channels in the surround mix is only music and sound FX. And they aren’t new, they are the originals. I can’t tell if they filtered them out of the original soundtrack or if they pulled out the tapes. My guess, from some of the volume changes is that it is filtered out of the original mono and then treated to a 4.1 channel mix to make the mono fill the space better. It isn’t actually stereo. you can tell it is just an effect to give the sound more body and presence. I’ve done that my self when including a mono track with stereo tracks to make it fit in better. I can’t hear any sound differences between the DVD surround center channel and the BR original mono.

As I look at the video, I have my doubts that they made a new transfer for the DVDs. It feels like it is the same master as the VHS/US LD. I don’t have either of those so I can’t compare them. But a lot of DVD’s that came out were from older masters. Video tape masters were high enough quality to make a good DVD release. A great many DVD releases in the 90’s were not new transfers. The DVD format alone makes older transfers look better. And coupled with some cleanup (which we know they did). But that is just supposition on my part. The colors in both DVD releases are more similar to the old VHS than to the BR. The DVD’s also match the source used for Trials and Tribbleations.

No there are definitely new sound effects in the 5.1/7.1 remixes

Post
#1512500
Topic
Star Trek: The Original Series preservation (a WIP)
Time

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

As a Star Trek fan and as someone who took the time to rip the BR disc into my streaming collection with the original soundtrack and FX, here are my comments on the originality and quality.

First the series was indeed messed with, but this first happened back in the 60’s. There are records of what opening titles each episode initially had and several of them have been changed. But that was not a new change and it was done to the original negatives.

Second, a must have for anyone looking into this is the soundtrack box set. It has all the original recordings as well as the new titles recordings. From that it is clear that all of the BR original soundtracks have the original music. None of them have been updates with the new recordings.

I’ve been watching Star Trek TOS faithfully since 1984. I am very well acquainted with what we had back then vs. what we have now. The colors prior to the recent scans are horrible. The command uniforms wash out to gold from their original avocado yellow-green. That happened in some FX shots anyway, but most of the shots should show a distinct green tint. That is how you know you are looking at a good scan. This was confirmed by James Cawley who was friends with Bill Theiss and secured a sample of the original uniform material which verified that it had a distinct green tint. Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II and Star Trek Continues fan productions used the correct colors for their uniforms.

The remastered versions corrected many small inconsistencies in the episodes and those are NOT reflected in the original cuts. Some are very subtle and would be easy to miss, but they definitely are not there in the original versions included in the blu-ray set.

Prior to home video release, we were subjected to edited versions on TV. 4 minutes was cut from each episode. the first time most people saw these (who had not collected the VHS or LD releases) was when the SciFi Channel aired the extended versions with commentary in 90 minutes slots. They aired the episodes twice, once with Shatner introducing and once with Nimoy. While the episode cut is the same, those versions had incorrect colors.

I am satisfied that the episodes as delivered on Blu-Ray, when played in their original form, are indeed original. In order to create the remastered version, they went back to the original negatives and scanned them. This represents the best version of the episodes. If you want to undo how clean they made them, add some film grain, but there was no release prior that is as good. I’ve seen them all. My understanding is that was the first time they went back to the negatives so in terms of picture and sound, they should be the most authentic to how they were aired originally.

Now, The Cage. That is a different story entirely. Gene owned the negative and a B&W print. Both complete. I do not know what transpired exactly. I’m sure NBC viewed a color print, but no one has mentioned it. But when it came time to do The Menagerie, Gene brought in the negative for them to use. He expected them to copy it. Instead they cut it up. I’m not clear on the sound, but I think the sound was a separate element. The original sound appears to be lost. Gene’s B&W print made the convention circut and received some damage over the years. One section of dialog, which was captured by an in room audio recording by a fan, was lost. When they went to do the first VHS release, he wanted The Cage included so they made the hybrid one. They took the audio and video from The Menagerie and created the first mixed cut. This was the first most fans had seen this. Then a miraculous thing happened. The cut footage was found. So the next video release (The mixed version came out as episode 1, the restored version came out as episode 99 - I had both VHS tapes and was very pissed off that people thought 99 was colorized). And you can tell where the footage changes because it was not the same scan. They literally scanned the missing parts and edited them back in. But that missing dialog was not included. When they released the DVD version, both parts were scanned the same way so the footage was more consistent. When the BR came out, they had rescanned it again and you can’t tell the difference. But in each case the edit where there is missing footage is noticeable because the video is different in each edit. But really only in that one spot.

Now I can’t speak for the quality of the audio tracks on the LD vs. the DVD vs. the Blu-ray. I have not looked at those. But my experience with Star Wars indicates that those old LD AC3 tracks are as good as any modern soundtrack. The analog ones likely have more noise, and given the copy history of these episodes, probably has a lot more noise which is not original to the episodes. Until the remastered, they were using a film print as the source for all the home video releases. So the Remastered (and hence the original version on the Blu-ray) went back to the negatives and is made from the best sources. It should be the most faithful to the original you can get and I am satisfied with that. No, some of the episodes are not totally original as to how their originally aired, but they are faithful to their first rerun (Which is when some of the opening titles were changed).

But that soundtrack box set for TOS is a must for anyone investigating the sounds of TOS. It is full of information and glorious music (not just the often repeated tracks form previous TOS soundtrack releases).

Ok so from what it seems like you’re saying, the mono tracks on the BDs of TOS are not downmixes

Do they still have the new sound effects the remixes have anywhere?

No. Star Trek has always been mono. Every version I have had. The Remastered is the first to have any stereo. There are some very clear shots were you can tell. As I said, having that TOS soundtrack collection makes it very clear. Great liner notes. I’ll have to check if I still have the DVD set. I do have a few of the prior DVD release. But I had never heard the the main title in stereo until I put in the BR and watched the remastered version. And I’ve had a surround system for 30 years. I can’t speak for what container they loaded the sound into, but there was never any stereo effect or edit or surround ever. And mixing a mono track into a 5.1 container doesn’t mean they did anything other than mix it so it came out the right speakers (likely the center or front L/R). For instance. Every CD is stereo. Now whether that is duplicated mono tracks (as is the case with all the Star Trek TOS music), stereo recorded tracks, or matrixed surround (which can expand to up to 5 tracks via a decoder) is another matter. Same with DVD and BR audio. You can have mono, stereo, matrixed stereo, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, 1.1, 4.0, etc. It is a matter of compatibility with playback systems and what container they need to be in to work right. At that point it becomes a technical issue and not one of remixing the audio to something new. Don’t be fooled by a disc saying it has 5.1 surround. Star Trek was not mixed for surround until 2006, and even then only the opening titles and added sound FX. The mono track was contained for playback on 5.1 systems, nothing more. No FX were added, the music was mono. Even in the remastered there are minimal changes to the audio.

The old DVDs never had the mono mixes released, only the 5.1 tracks which added many new sound effects

There were 2 DVD releases. Which one? What sound FX were added?

The initial DVDs are where the 5.1 mixes originated despite having the OG visual effects, there were 2.0 tracks included but they were stereo downmixes of the 5.1 track

The BDs are the first home video release since VHS to have any mono mixes, and I heard from a few fans that they still had a few of the newer sound effects from the remixes

That is not quite accurate. I ripped the 2nd pilot from both DVD sources (already have the BD ripped). The original 1999 DVD release featured a 5.1 mix. Here is what it is. The original mono soundtrack as the center channel. Some sounds filtered to the left and right to create a stereo effect. Some sounds filtered to the surround and LFE channels. But the center channel is the original. The 2004 DVD clamshell set also has a stereo tack that has a stereo effect, likely just a mixdown of the surround as it has both 5.1 and 2.0. The remastered blu-ray set has a two channel mono soundtrack. There is a clear fidelity difference showing that the BR mono track came from a better source, using better equipment, or something else unique to get a crisper recorder. The video for the two DVD releases apppears to be identical there is a slight vertical adjustment, but the video and 5.1 tracks appear to be identical in every way.

Picture wise, the DVDs are an improvement over previous VHS and LD releases in the US. the Japanese LD set was a totaly different transfer using different techniques. Its quality compared to the US LD or DVD release would be comparably inferior to the BR image quality.

So to compare the sound for the original mono, you would need to extract the center channel out of the surround mix and the 2 channel mono from the BR. Also, BR discs have very high quality audio encoding and the audio track is sufficiently better quality that any possible loss is negligible.

so are the BD versions truly the original broadcast mono tracks or do they still have changes?

Post
#1512415
Topic
Star Trek: The Original Series preservation (a WIP)
Time

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

As a Star Trek fan and as someone who took the time to rip the BR disc into my streaming collection with the original soundtrack and FX, here are my comments on the originality and quality.

First the series was indeed messed with, but this first happened back in the 60’s. There are records of what opening titles each episode initially had and several of them have been changed. But that was not a new change and it was done to the original negatives.

Second, a must have for anyone looking into this is the soundtrack box set. It has all the original recordings as well as the new titles recordings. From that it is clear that all of the BR original soundtracks have the original music. None of them have been updates with the new recordings.

I’ve been watching Star Trek TOS faithfully since 1984. I am very well acquainted with what we had back then vs. what we have now. The colors prior to the recent scans are horrible. The command uniforms wash out to gold from their original avocado yellow-green. That happened in some FX shots anyway, but most of the shots should show a distinct green tint. That is how you know you are looking at a good scan. This was confirmed by James Cawley who was friends with Bill Theiss and secured a sample of the original uniform material which verified that it had a distinct green tint. Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II and Star Trek Continues fan productions used the correct colors for their uniforms.

The remastered versions corrected many small inconsistencies in the episodes and those are NOT reflected in the original cuts. Some are very subtle and would be easy to miss, but they definitely are not there in the original versions included in the blu-ray set.

Prior to home video release, we were subjected to edited versions on TV. 4 minutes was cut from each episode. the first time most people saw these (who had not collected the VHS or LD releases) was when the SciFi Channel aired the extended versions with commentary in 90 minutes slots. They aired the episodes twice, once with Shatner introducing and once with Nimoy. While the episode cut is the same, those versions had incorrect colors.

I am satisfied that the episodes as delivered on Blu-Ray, when played in their original form, are indeed original. In order to create the remastered version, they went back to the original negatives and scanned them. This represents the best version of the episodes. If you want to undo how clean they made them, add some film grain, but there was no release prior that is as good. I’ve seen them all. My understanding is that was the first time they went back to the negatives so in terms of picture and sound, they should be the most authentic to how they were aired originally.

Now, The Cage. That is a different story entirely. Gene owned the negative and a B&W print. Both complete. I do not know what transpired exactly. I’m sure NBC viewed a color print, but no one has mentioned it. But when it came time to do The Menagerie, Gene brought in the negative for them to use. He expected them to copy it. Instead they cut it up. I’m not clear on the sound, but I think the sound was a separate element. The original sound appears to be lost. Gene’s B&W print made the convention circut and received some damage over the years. One section of dialog, which was captured by an in room audio recording by a fan, was lost. When they went to do the first VHS release, he wanted The Cage included so they made the hybrid one. They took the audio and video from The Menagerie and created the first mixed cut. This was the first most fans had seen this. Then a miraculous thing happened. The cut footage was found. So the next video release (The mixed version came out as episode 1, the restored version came out as episode 99 - I had both VHS tapes and was very pissed off that people thought 99 was colorized). And you can tell where the footage changes because it was not the same scan. They literally scanned the missing parts and edited them back in. But that missing dialog was not included. When they released the DVD version, both parts were scanned the same way so the footage was more consistent. When the BR came out, they had rescanned it again and you can’t tell the difference. But in each case the edit where there is missing footage is noticeable because the video is different in each edit. But really only in that one spot.

Now I can’t speak for the quality of the audio tracks on the LD vs. the DVD vs. the Blu-ray. I have not looked at those. But my experience with Star Wars indicates that those old LD AC3 tracks are as good as any modern soundtrack. The analog ones likely have more noise, and given the copy history of these episodes, probably has a lot more noise which is not original to the episodes. Until the remastered, they were using a film print as the source for all the home video releases. So the Remastered (and hence the original version on the Blu-ray) went back to the negatives and is made from the best sources. It should be the most faithful to the original you can get and I am satisfied with that. No, some of the episodes are not totally original as to how their originally aired, but they are faithful to their first rerun (Which is when some of the opening titles were changed).

But that soundtrack box set for TOS is a must for anyone investigating the sounds of TOS. It is full of information and glorious music (not just the often repeated tracks form previous TOS soundtrack releases).

Ok so from what it seems like you’re saying, the mono tracks on the BDs of TOS are not downmixes

Do they still have the new sound effects the remixes have anywhere?

No. Star Trek has always been mono. Every version I have had. The Remastered is the first to have any stereo. There are some very clear shots were you can tell. As I said, having that TOS soundtrack collection makes it very clear. Great liner notes. I’ll have to check if I still have the DVD set. I do have a few of the prior DVD release. But I had never heard the the main title in stereo until I put in the BR and watched the remastered version. And I’ve had a surround system for 30 years. I can’t speak for what container they loaded the sound into, but there was never any stereo effect or edit or surround ever. And mixing a mono track into a 5.1 container doesn’t mean they did anything other than mix it so it came out the right speakers (likely the center or front L/R). For instance. Every CD is stereo. Now whether that is duplicated mono tracks (as is the case with all the Star Trek TOS music), stereo recorded tracks, or matrixed surround (which can expand to up to 5 tracks via a decoder) is another matter. Same with DVD and BR audio. You can have mono, stereo, matrixed stereo, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, 1.1, 4.0, etc. It is a matter of compatibility with playback systems and what container they need to be in to work right. At that point it becomes a technical issue and not one of remixing the audio to something new. Don’t be fooled by a disc saying it has 5.1 surround. Star Trek was not mixed for surround until 2006, and even then only the opening titles and added sound FX. The mono track was contained for playback on 5.1 systems, nothing more. No FX were added, the music was mono. Even in the remastered there are minimal changes to the audio.

The old DVDs never had the mono mixes released, only the 5.1 tracks which added many new sound effects

There were 2 DVD releases. Which one? What sound FX were added?

The initial DVDs are where the 5.1 mixes originated despite having the OG visual effects, there were 2.0 tracks included but they were stereo downmixes of the 5.1 track

The BDs are the first home video release since VHS to have any mono mixes, and I heard from a few fans that they still had a few of the newer sound effects from the remixes

Post
#1512337
Topic
Star Trek: The Original Series preservation (a WIP)
Time

yotsuya said:

SpacemanDoug said:

yotsuya said:

As a Star Trek fan and as someone who took the time to rip the BR disc into my streaming collection with the original soundtrack and FX, here are my comments on the originality and quality.

First the series was indeed messed with, but this first happened back in the 60’s. There are records of what opening titles each episode initially had and several of them have been changed. But that was not a new change and it was done to the original negatives.

Second, a must have for anyone looking into this is the soundtrack box set. It has all the original recordings as well as the new titles recordings. From that it is clear that all of the BR original soundtracks have the original music. None of them have been updates with the new recordings.

I’ve been watching Star Trek TOS faithfully since 1984. I am very well acquainted with what we had back then vs. what we have now. The colors prior to the recent scans are horrible. The command uniforms wash out to gold from their original avocado yellow-green. That happened in some FX shots anyway, but most of the shots should show a distinct green tint. That is how you know you are looking at a good scan. This was confirmed by James Cawley who was friends with Bill Theiss and secured a sample of the original uniform material which verified that it had a distinct green tint. Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II and Star Trek Continues fan productions used the correct colors for their uniforms.

The remastered versions corrected many small inconsistencies in the episodes and those are NOT reflected in the original cuts. Some are very subtle and would be easy to miss, but they definitely are not there in the original versions included in the blu-ray set.

Prior to home video release, we were subjected to edited versions on TV. 4 minutes was cut from each episode. the first time most people saw these (who had not collected the VHS or LD releases) was when the SciFi Channel aired the extended versions with commentary in 90 minutes slots. They aired the episodes twice, once with Shatner introducing and once with Nimoy. While the episode cut is the same, those versions had incorrect colors.

I am satisfied that the episodes as delivered on Blu-Ray, when played in their original form, are indeed original. In order to create the remastered version, they went back to the original negatives and scanned them. This represents the best version of the episodes. If you want to undo how clean they made them, add some film grain, but there was no release prior that is as good. I’ve seen them all. My understanding is that was the first time they went back to the negatives so in terms of picture and sound, they should be the most authentic to how they were aired originally.

Now, The Cage. That is a different story entirely. Gene owned the negative and a B&W print. Both complete. I do not know what transpired exactly. I’m sure NBC viewed a color print, but no one has mentioned it. But when it came time to do The Menagerie, Gene brought in the negative for them to use. He expected them to copy it. Instead they cut it up. I’m not clear on the sound, but I think the sound was a separate element. The original sound appears to be lost. Gene’s B&W print made the convention circut and received some damage over the years. One section of dialog, which was captured by an in room audio recording by a fan, was lost. When they went to do the first VHS release, he wanted The Cage included so they made the hybrid one. They took the audio and video from The Menagerie and created the first mixed cut. This was the first most fans had seen this. Then a miraculous thing happened. The cut footage was found. So the next video release (The mixed version came out as episode 1, the restored version came out as episode 99 - I had both VHS tapes and was very pissed off that people thought 99 was colorized). And you can tell where the footage changes because it was not the same scan. They literally scanned the missing parts and edited them back in. But that missing dialog was not included. When they released the DVD version, both parts were scanned the same way so the footage was more consistent. When the BR came out, they had rescanned it again and you can’t tell the difference. But in each case the edit where there is missing footage is noticeable because the video is different in each edit. But really only in that one spot.

Now I can’t speak for the quality of the audio tracks on the LD vs. the DVD vs. the Blu-ray. I have not looked at those. But my experience with Star Wars indicates that those old LD AC3 tracks are as good as any modern soundtrack. The analog ones likely have more noise, and given the copy history of these episodes, probably has a lot more noise which is not original to the episodes. Until the remastered, they were using a film print as the source for all the home video releases. So the Remastered (and hence the original version on the Blu-ray) went back to the negatives and is made from the best sources. It should be the most faithful to the original you can get and I am satisfied with that. No, some of the episodes are not totally original as to how their originally aired, but they are faithful to their first rerun (Which is when some of the opening titles were changed).

But that soundtrack box set for TOS is a must for anyone investigating the sounds of TOS. It is full of information and glorious music (not just the often repeated tracks form previous TOS soundtrack releases).

Ok so from what it seems like you’re saying, the mono tracks on the BDs of TOS are not downmixes

Do they still have the new sound effects the remixes have anywhere?

No. Star Trek has always been mono. Every version I have had. The Remastered is the first to have any stereo. There are some very clear shots were you can tell. As I said, having that TOS soundtrack collection makes it very clear. Great liner notes. I’ll have to check if I still have the DVD set. I do have a few of the prior DVD release. But I had never heard the the main title in stereo until I put in the BR and watched the remastered version. And I’ve had a surround system for 30 years. I can’t speak for what container they loaded the sound into, but there was never any stereo effect or edit or surround ever. And mixing a mono track into a 5.1 container doesn’t mean they did anything other than mix it so it came out the right speakers (likely the center or front L/R). For instance. Every CD is stereo. Now whether that is duplicated mono tracks (as is the case with all the Star Trek TOS music), stereo recorded tracks, or matrixed surround (which can expand to up to 5 tracks via a decoder) is another matter. Same with DVD and BR audio. You can have mono, stereo, matrixed stereo, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, 1.1, 4.0, etc. It is a matter of compatibility with playback systems and what container they need to be in to work right. At that point it becomes a technical issue and not one of remixing the audio to something new. Don’t be fooled by a disc saying it has 5.1 surround. Star Trek was not mixed for surround until 2006, and even then only the opening titles and added sound FX. The mono track was contained for playback on 5.1 systems, nothing more. No FX were added, the music was mono. Even in the remastered there are minimal changes to the audio.

The old DVDs never had the mono mixes released, only the 5.1 tracks which added many new sound effects

Post
#1512232
Topic
Star Trek: The Original Series preservation (a WIP)
Time

yotsuya said:

As a Star Trek fan and as someone who took the time to rip the BR disc into my streaming collection with the original soundtrack and FX, here are my comments on the originality and quality.

First the series was indeed messed with, but this first happened back in the 60’s. There are records of what opening titles each episode initially had and several of them have been changed. But that was not a new change and it was done to the original negatives.

Second, a must have for anyone looking into this is the soundtrack box set. It has all the original recordings as well as the new titles recordings. From that it is clear that all of the BR original soundtracks have the original music. None of them have been updates with the new recordings.

I’ve been watching Star Trek TOS faithfully since 1984. I am very well acquainted with what we had back then vs. what we have now. The colors prior to the recent scans are horrible. The command uniforms wash out to gold from their original avocado yellow-green. That happened in some FX shots anyway, but most of the shots should show a distinct green tint. That is how you know you are looking at a good scan. This was confirmed by James Cawley who was friends with Bill Theiss and secured a sample of the original uniform material which verified that it had a distinct green tint. Star Trek New Voyages/Phase II and Star Trek Continues fan productions used the correct colors for their uniforms.

The remastered versions corrected many small inconsistencies in the episodes and those are NOT reflected in the original cuts. Some are very subtle and would be easy to miss, but they definitely are not there in the original versions included in the blu-ray set.

Prior to home video release, we were subjected to edited versions on TV. 4 minutes was cut from each episode. the first time most people saw these (who had not collected the VHS or LD releases) was when the SciFi Channel aired the extended versions with commentary in 90 minutes slots. They aired the episodes twice, once with Shatner introducing and once with Nimoy. While the episode cut is the same, those versions had incorrect colors.

I am satisfied that the episodes as delivered on Blu-Ray, when played in their original form, are indeed original. In order to create the remastered version, they went back to the original negatives and scanned them. This represents the best version of the episodes. If you want to undo how clean they made them, add some film grain, but there was no release prior that is as good. I’ve seen them all. My understanding is that was the first time they went back to the negatives so in terms of picture and sound, they should be the most authentic to how they were aired originally.

Now, The Cage. That is a different story entirely. Gene owned the negative and a B&W print. Both complete. I do not know what transpired exactly. I’m sure NBC viewed a color print, but no one has mentioned it. But when it came time to do The Menagerie, Gene brought in the negative for them to use. He expected them to copy it. Instead they cut it up. I’m not clear on the sound, but I think the sound was a separate element. The original sound appears to be lost. Gene’s B&W print made the convention circut and received some damage over the years. One section of dialog, which was captured by an in room audio recording by a fan, was lost. When they went to do the first VHS release, he wanted The Cage included so they made the hybrid one. They took the audio and video from The Menagerie and created the first mixed cut. This was the first most fans had seen this. Then a miraculous thing happened. The cut footage was found. So the next video release (The mixed version came out as episode 1, the restored version came out as episode 99 - I had both VHS tapes and was very pissed off that people thought 99 was colorized). And you can tell where the footage changes because it was not the same scan. They literally scanned the missing parts and edited them back in. But that missing dialog was not included. When they released the DVD version, both parts were scanned the same way so the footage was more consistent. When the BR came out, they had rescanned it again and you can’t tell the difference. But in each case the edit where there is missing footage is noticeable because the video is different in each edit. But really only in that one spot.

Now I can’t speak for the quality of the audio tracks on the LD vs. the DVD vs. the Blu-ray. I have not looked at those. But my experience with Star Wars indicates that those old LD AC3 tracks are as good as any modern soundtrack. The analog ones likely have more noise, and given the copy history of these episodes, probably has a lot more noise which is not original to the episodes. Until the remastered, they were using a film print as the source for all the home video releases. So the Remastered (and hence the original version on the Blu-ray) went back to the negatives and is made from the best sources. It should be the most faithful to the original you can get and I am satisfied with that. No, some of the episodes are not totally original as to how their originally aired, but they are faithful to their first rerun (Which is when some of the opening titles were changed).

But that soundtrack box set for TOS is a must for anyone investigating the sounds of TOS. It is full of information and glorious music (not just the often repeated tracks form previous TOS soundtrack releases).

Ok so from what it seems like you’re saying, the mono tracks on the BDs of TOS are not downmixes

Do they still have the new sound effects the remixes have anywhere?

Post
#1512110
Topic
Beavis and Butt-Head S03E35 - Incognito (Reconstruction/Restoration)
Time

Beavis lee ray said:

Does anyone know if later versions of the king turd collection corrected the welcome to the jungle baby your going to die line that was missing from the original on lawn and garden? Also did they use a broadcast version of patients patients with the try talking out of your mouth instead of your butt line which was also missing from the original version because the Mike judge collection cartoon segments were used for much of it with videos and scenes spliced in.

For the Jungle line, I think a v2 version fixed that cause I know a version I saw had it

Post
#1511865
Topic
American Graffiti - Original Cut Restoration (Mechanical Assistance/Telecine Experts Needed!) (* unfinished project *) - lots of information...
Time

silverwheel said:

AdmiralWasabi10191 said:

SpacemanDoug said:

AdmiralWasabi10191 said:

timemeddler said:

interesting, there’s a 480p transfer on the spleen claiming to be the 1973 version, is that from this print? Perhaps it could be used as the source to created a despecialized version of American Graffiti.

The Spleen can go suck a fuck.
35mm print would be best. 1080p or 4K scan. Would it ever happen? That’d be neat.

The one on myspleen is a 35mm scan, it’s just 480p

That’s fucking hilariously stupid that it’s 480p, not 1080p or 4K.

Considering that the scan was made almost 40 years ago, I’m not sure what more you’d expect. Certainly don’t know why you feel so committed to shittalking it.

How do you know it’s a 40 year old scan?

Post
#1511835
Topic
David Lynch is up for doing a directors cut of Dune!!!
Time

SpookyDollhouse said:

I feel if this actually got off the ground he’d inevitably reconstruct his 4 hour cut as it was before Fox went in and did their own thing. Cuz as we know they pushed him around on set but he did what he could in the editing room before the top dogs went “nope.” I don’t think anything SFX would get changed really. Lynch isn’t super into that sort of thing to be honest.

Minor correction, it was Dino De Laurentis and Universal, Fox had no involvement in this movie

Post
#1511753
Topic
Can anyone tell me if the music on the new Wayne’s world uhd is the original
Time

Fullmetaled said:

SpacemanDoug said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Dream Weaver was always a different recording. Gary Wright re-recorded it specifically for the film.

Apparently to restore Stairway, Paramount used a pre-theatrical mix with the OG Dream Weaver, so this replacement isn’t anything new necessarily

Why did this happen in the first place this just seems very odd.

Paramount likely used an element that happened to be the pre-release audio which not only had the original Stairway notes but also had the OG version of Dream Weaver so it was simply an oversight