Spaced Ranger

SilverWook said:

 Sorry I missed your call for help, Silverwook. Because (as we all know):

       WHILE              D ,    RANGER             T
          I N   S P A C E^ ,   N O O N E   C A N^   H E A R   Y O U   S C R E A M

.

I looked around eBay again (even completed auctions) for a seller with a complete set of pictures -- still nothing. And most of them just use eBay's stock photo!

So, I put my own disc [note WB logo] into the previous Warner 1999 picture set. This now is the proper Warner 1999 DVD package to look for ..
         

And I don't mind restating for a sum-up:

• MGM      1998 DVD -- mono/panned dialog1; missing H.A.L.'s spoken "I read you."
• Warner 1999 DVD -- mono/panned dialog1; includes H.A.L.'s spoken "I read you."
• Warner 2001 DVD -- mono/centered dialog1,2; includes H.A.L.'s spoken "I read you."

1:  from listening to Floyd/receptionist chat at space station arrival
2:  only person-to-person is centered; person-to-monitor (for example - "Voice Print Identification") is still panned

And, for completeness, here's the Warner 2001 DVD release's H.A.L. audio screenshot ..

.. and the Warner 2001 DVD package on eBay [go to link for zoom-in views] ..
         
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-A-Space-Odyssey-DVD-2001-Stanley-Kubrick-Collection-Widescreen-/151362030317?orig_cvip=true

American Cinematographer
THE SPECIAL EDITION: An Expanded Universe (page 4)
by Ron Magid (1997)
http://www.theasc.com/magazine/starwars/

When Lucas is asked which version he hopes audiences will be watching 20 years from now, his candid reply is a bit Orwellian: "There will only be one. ... because that's what everybody is going to remember. The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won't last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition] ..."

                                                                             [cue theme music]

AntcuFaalb said:

Ouch! My spleen is killing me today!

"Take four red capsules. In 10 minutes, take two more. Help is on the way."

Doorlock Homes: "Another case solved, Watkins! Ga-a-ad. How do I do it?"
Dr. Watkins: "I  d-d..d-d..don't  know ..."

.

Apparently, when Warner took 2001 from MGM, they also "inherited" MGM's unsold stock of DVDs ... and either before or after the first run of their DVD pressings, Warner put all the old MGM stock into their new packages for sale. So, look at the disc before you buy based on the box.

Here is the 1998 MGM DVD package on eBay [go to link for zoom-in views]:
         
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-DVD-2001-A-Space-Odyssey-MGM-1998-/301630969880?orig_cvip=true

Here is the deceptive 1999 Warner DVD [w/1998 MGM DVD] package on eBay [go to link for zoom-in views]:
         
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-A-Space-Odyssey-DVD-Stanley-Kubrick-Collection-/131457678683?orig_cvip=true

Zoom-in at eBay and look at the 1998 disc's MGM logo in the 1999 Warner package. Ouch. Class-action law-suit anyone?

The true Warner 1999 DVD disc has the "WB" logo and this picture for it's background photo:

I'll post a similar picture set as soon as one also appears on eBay.

.

Spaced Ranger said:

... here, on the Warner 1999 DVD region-1 release ... is this disc's movie-files listing from Windows Explorer:

     VTS_01_1.VOB    1,048,574 KB    11/02/1999 06:16 PM
     VTS_01_2.VOB    1,048,574 KB    11/02/1999 06:21 PM
     VTS_01_3.VOB    1,048,574 KB    11/02/1999 06:25 PM
     VTS_01_4.VOB       799,458 KB    11/02/1999 06:27 PM
     VTS_01_5.VOB    1,048,574 KB    11/02/1999 06:31 PM
     VTS_01_6.VOB    1,048,574 KB    11/02/1999 06:36 PM
     VTS_01_7.VOB    1,048,574 KB    11/02/1999 06:40 PM
     VTS_01_8.VOB       430,240 KB    11/02/1999 06:43 PM

Here, on the MGM 1998 DVD region-1 release, is this disc's movie-files listing from Windows Explorer:

     VTS_01_1.VOB    1,048,256 KB    07/16/1998 04:02 PM
     VTS_01_2.VOB    1,048,188 KB    07/16/1998 04:06 PM
     VTS_01_3.VOB    1,048,332 KB    07/16/1998 04:10 PM
     VTS_01_4.VOB    1,048,564 KB    07/16/1998 04:14 PM
     VTS_01_5.VOB    1,048,344 KB    07/16/1998 04:18 PM
     VTS_01_6.VOB    1,048,530 KB    07/16/1998 04:22 PM
     VTS_01_7.VOB    1,048,426 KB    07/16/1998 04:26 PM
     VTS_01_8.VOB       185,190 KB    07/16/1998 04:27 PM

Depending on how fast VideoLAN (VLC media player) can capture ..

How to capture/record desktop video using VLC media player
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-capturerecord-desktop-video-using-VLC-medi/

.. (that demonstration is at a "blazing" 10fps), you may require more dedicated software.

Videogame players tend to use the known and staunch FRAPS http://www.fraps.com/ to grab fast action gaming at high resolution/frame-rates, for game without built-in recording. However, there are similar programs jockeying for that dominant position. Like any software solution, how well it works will depend on the power of your system to keep up.

Always download from the original site for "clean" copies, and otherwise check user reviews to confirm their authors are not including unwanted ad-ware / spy-ware.

valien said:

The 1999 Warner DVD omits the line "I read you". I just checked once again.

Did you re-check your sources or play the actual disc?

skoal said:

One of you *may* be confusing the 1st and 2nd Warner DVD releases ...

I thought I might have lost track (no pun intended) of discs and so listened again. H.A.L.'s full dialog is spoken, here, on the Warner 1999 DVD region-1 release. On the off chance there may have been a "quiet re-release" of corrections (it's happened before -- on the Star Wars laserdiscs, for example), here is this disc's movie-files listing from Windows Explorer:

     VTS_01_1.VOB    1,048,574 KB    11/02/1999 06:16 PM
     VTS_01_2.VOB    1,048,574 KB    11/02/1999 06:21 PM
     VTS_01_3.VOB    1,048,574 KB    11/02/1999 06:25 PM
     VTS_01_4.VOB       799,458 KB    11/02/1999 06:27 PM
     VTS_01_5.VOB    1,048,574 KB    11/02/1999 06:31 PM
     VTS_01_6.VOB    1,048,574 KB    11/02/1999 06:36 PM
     VTS_01_7.VOB    1,048,574 KB    11/02/1999 06:40 PM
     VTS_01_8.VOB       430,240 KB    11/02/1999 06:43 PM

skoal said:

Do the 2001: ASO LaserDiscs with directional sound/panning also omit the "I read you" line?

Which laserdisc also pans and/or truncates that dialog? All of them? Maybe PDB could chime in about the release he has?

.

BTW, those "extra" non-selectable audio tracks I previously noted are actually from the DVD's included extras. Apparently, this older-version media player lists all-tracks-all-the-time, regardless of the presently playing video.

skoal said:

... the *1st* Warner DVD ... the MGM DVD release contains the directional sound/panning ...  the Warner DVDs contain the "I read you" line that's missing on the MGM DVD.

I received your PM and thought I'd answer it here. "Yes" to all your above excerpts. If by "directional sound/panning" they mean it for the dialogue, then, yes, the dialogue does sound like it's repositioning and taking the ambient sounds with it. However, the music sounds like normal stereo ..

Note that both DVD's show extra audio options, which cannot be selected in the computer media player (indicated in red).  However, these options DO NOT show in the DVD audio menus at all (and hence cannot be selected there, either). Strangely, the 1998 MGM DVD omits H.A.L.'s full dialog (again indicated in red) while the 1999 Warner DVD does not.

Thanks for pointing that out! I'm still learning ever more about this movie.

DrDre said:

Here's the updated 10 min sample for the debugged super resolution v8 ... There's more detail than before. Sadly, aliasing remains an issue.

I'm still DL'ing and haven't done the usual zoomed-in critiquing, but it's looking really good. As long as you've squashed the bugs and have rung everything you can out of this application/version of the SuperResolution filter, I think you can chalk-up your project as a success!

If you're satisfied with it as having attained your goal of a non-intrusive HD up-rez (and cheers on this best first-run-looking presentation), I'd say you're probably finished. Of course, you mentioned looking into another super resolution application. If that looks more promising, maybe a continuation of this thread? Or a new project thread?

Anyway, well done here! 

Great! And glad you found those bugs (the worst kind are those that don't break the program, just contaminate it).

I jury-rigged a Screenshot Comparison (locally) of your two versions (SRv8 and SRv8-lessGrain) and the difference was subtle on those shots. As you concluded, that makes the less-Grain-put-back approach more generally suitable (keeping in mind those odd, noisier scenes). I hope that is the sample you're processing.  :)

"Have you ever had the feeling you were being watched? Like the eyes of strange things are upon you? Look, out there in the audience." - Bugs Bunny, Hair-Raising Hare (1946)

.

I was jumping ahead of myself and spent way too much time on future ideas today (and loving it, but with the price to pay) -- a quick color correction, and a quick proportional overlay of the 16mm P&S onto the letterbox laserdisc [presently just a placeholder graphic]. In Avisynth, of course.

msycamore, many pages back, was having some trouble with syncing the video/audio of the sample clip he had and it wasn't co-operating. The first thing I now see is strange. This is your typical 24fps film. It's got all kinds of imaging in the leader that you'd expect to see flashing by, including the countdown numbers and it's final audio beep on "2". Normally, this is where to sync it up.

One problem is, this leader stops at "3".  Another is that this is sound film runs at 24fps, with 24 frames for each number (which equals 1 second of screen time). So why does this countdown leader have only 16 frames for each number? (Note: 16fps is silent film.)

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda's post-operative software must make wrong assumptions on the media. It ID's the video as 30fps (it's film @ 24fps) and the audio as 48k sample rate. Audio is normally has the standard rates of 48k or 44.1k. However, forcing audio to either of those puts it out- the-sync with the video, correspondingly fast or slow.

In Avisynth, the video is a snap to fix. It is normal to assume the internal video ID is correct and Avisynth just follows suit ..

     vid002 = OpenDMLSource( "f2.avi" )

In this case, that would keep the video running fast at 30fps. Here's the way to force the film to play at film speed ..

     vid002 = OpenDMLSource( "f2.avi" ).AssumeFPS( "ntsc_film" )

That's it. Now it's at the proper speed of 24fps.

Something similar is used for the audo. Avisynth again follows the audio ID ..

     aud002 = WAVSource( "fa2.wav" )

If one forces 48k ..

     aud002 = WAVSource( "fa2.wav" ).AssumeSampleRate( 48000 )

.. or 44.1k ..

     aud002 = WAVSource( "fa2.wav" ).AssumeSampleRate( 44100 )

.. the audio still will not sync up (too fast or too slow).

The true sampling rate must be somewhere in between. But how to find it without testing each and every value in between (3,900 tests)?

[coming up next]

 Previously ...

Spaced Ranger said:

msycamore said:

Just remember that the true warrior of this thread is the silver haired wookie ...

Yes!  HEAR, HEAR!  for SilverWook!

msycamore said:

... Antcufaalb ... and ... Poita ...

.. and for Antcufaalb! and poita!

 Well, there are actually more to be inducted into our
                          THX 1138 Thread Of Fame
One who, pages and pages back, cap'ed what may be (my theory) the earliest version of this film, although Pan & Scan for later consumer market (TV, etc.) distribution ..

.. and for Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda!

And another who, from the very earliest pages of this thread, cap'ed & preserved the apparently only independently edited foreign release, for the Italian market ..

.. and for thxita!

.

A round of applause to all!

No view-counts flying off the board! No panic bids in the last 5 seconds! I  hardly had palpitations! Where was the excitement?!?
[just a moment ... to catch my breath]

Anyone recognize eBay's scrambled handles? Well, maybe the winner is a little embarrassed because (as TV's Frink would put it) boobs.   :)

At least I won a booby prize ... screen-caps!

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

... I continue to whistle that stupid "blah blah" song, almost all the day ...

    I hope it's the original, 1989 version ...    bl-l-l-l-lah!  bl-l-l-l-lah!     

TServo2049 said:

A friend pointed me to this: A 35mm print ...

This is the GHOOOOST of Spaced Ranger ...    ... he died of shock upon seeing that next eBay listing!  And he's starting to get the hang of this dying thingy!  Just like this thread's subject matter -- it comes in two-o-o-o-os!

DrDre said:

... to respect DJ's wishes. ... screenshot comparisons via PM to anyone who wishes to see them. ... I hope this makes everybody happy.

What's wrong with screenshot comparisons linked-to on an open forum from "in the wild" sources? Surely not this ..

  How about just leave ours out of this and do your guys own stuff?

As stunningly hostile as this seems, I was wondering if it was more the frown ...

  How about just leave ours out of this and do your guys own stuff?

Yeah, I guess the smile takes the sting out.  :D

But that doesn't take out the general fact -- there is no ours nor yours. It's George Lucas' (or Disney's now, hmm?). And if fair-used Lucas/Disney content is posted to the open Internet, those posters should have no expectation of ... anything.

I fully support DrDre doing as he likes with freely accessible sources and would recommend the good doctor ignore all else that has no standing.  :)

                                                Welcome To
The SvenRanger Show
                  [ you probably know my more famous uncle, Svengoolie ]

Anyway ... uncle did his show with a segment on the performers of the old B&W horror flick Jungle Captive, recently on the MeTV network. In it was a role played by the young American actor ... Philip Brown.
                                             
Name ring a bell?

Well, it rang a bell with the House Un-American Activities Committee when they investigated a possible communist actor's association he helped start in the 1950's. As a result of lost work, he moved to England and resumed his acting career there.

Some years later, a young and truly un-American director came over to direct his new movie. He wanted someone with a strong American accent and Brown perfectly filled that bill. He got the small part.

The director?              George "I'm a 60's radical" Lucas
The movie?                 Star Wars
Phil Brown's role?     Uncle Owen !!
                     
Check it on YouTube (the Phil Brown mention begins @ 32sec) ..

Svengoolie: "Jungle Captive" Film Facts & More Insights on Rondo Hatton!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT4C0YrId7w

Some thing like that ...

Sometimes, when someone writes something, someone else wonders if that first someone has gone into some more detail, somewhere else, at some earlier or later time (... to some up the matter).

It would be nice to have an internal search whereby results also could be listed for unique entries by specified posters (with context & highlighted search words). Other forums have such convenient searching. For those that don't, I've tried external search engines (here and elsewhere) with limited success -- the best in a remaining poor situation.

If there are foreseen security concerns, internal searching could be visible to members but not guests.

For security concerns from external search engine inquiries, returned text with members names and close spellings (due to typos or abbreviations) could be replaced by random posting numbers. For example, member Spaced Ranger returned as Poster3208 in the 1st reference, Poster0981 in the next. Of course, situations of member George Lucas writing about non-member George Lucas would need special logged-in tags or prefixes (visible or invisible) to differentiate between identities.

Finally finished the loading (yes, slow connection) and this latest sample is awesome!

Not to take away from the dedicated and great work on all the preservations and restorations, but I never thought, "now that looks like the first-run pristine movie". It's always something -- tint, contrast, noise, something. Even when working off better quality "special editions" or Blu-ray, it still is off. It's George Lucas, even here, getting his way ..

"When Lucas is asked which version he hopes audiences will be watching 20 years from now, his candid reply is a bit Orwellian: 'There will only be one. ... The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won't last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition]...' "

- American Cinematographer: Star Wars, The Special Edition - An Expanded Universe (page 4)

I'm happy to say your minimalist approach, not trying to "fix it" with a sledgehammer, really gives it that delicate "first run" look. (Take that, George!) 

And just when you think there is nothing more to glean from YouTube, you change the scope of your search ... and ...

YouTube comes through with that 1st commentary track for Knick Knack (see Page 1). Previously, this was overlooked due to more narrow search terms. The new search brought up a YouTube with all the disc's commentaries. So Knick Knack's commentary was "hidden" within. They discuss the original 3D (stereographic) development and release. It starts @ 12min 50sec (automatically, as per link parameter) and ends @ 16min 19sec, here ..

YouTube:
               
Pixar Short Films Collection Vol. 1- Audio Commentaries [AUDIO]
                  [Knick Knack @ 12m50s to 16m19s]

(I'll update Page 1, too.)

Can hardly wait to check this out!

BTW, a quick look at Page 1 didn't reveal the source-capture details used in your project (must've over-looked it). I wanted to give you a heads-up for AntcuFaabl's developments in cutting edge laserdisc capture techniques and it's hardware analog-artifact removal. It should produce an even better base to ratchet-up the quality of your results (it's really good!) ..

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THX-1138-preservations/post/768999/#TopicPost768999

AntcuFaalb said:

LD: I've spent the past few weeks writing a 3D comb filter for Avisynth in C.

...

I'm just low pass filtering each chroma channel to 843.75KHz (that's 1.6875MHz together which is basically DV's 4:1:1). ... and the rainbows disappear ...

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/125913

 That ... is ... AWESOME !

16mm: ... My project today is to just dump what we have (warts and all) in order to share and give you all the ability to start analyzing it.

That ... is ...

   A     W          W   EEEE     SSSS      OOO      M      M     EEEE      !!!   !!!
  AA     W  W  W    EEE      SS          O      O     MM MM    EEE        !!!   !!!
 AAA     W W W     E              SSS    O      O    M  M  M    E
A     A     W  W       EEEE    SSSS       OOO      M       M    EEEE      !!!   !!!

[with apologies to Kung-Fu Panda]

The real question is ... WHY?

Why would John Lasseter go back and ruin his own work Knick Knack? Why, John, why? Do you think you're some kind of ... George Lucas? Hey, wait a minute ..

.. birds of a feather.  

Thanks, _,,,^..^,,,_ ... and everyone -- for all the fun comments & assistance!

It's great doing the detective work and putting what I find all in one place for everyone to easily access. Of course, as I come across more, it will be added. If anyone finds new information to support or correct anything here, please post ... with links and lots of pictures!  :)

Oh, and not to let our mermaid Sunny Atlantis feel left out ... we see you waving!

                                           1989

                                            2003

Don't worry, we've got you covered ... or uncovered ... or, well, you know. 

I originally thought Knick Knack was a fullscreen production (thanks, VHS) and the later update was a rework in widescreen.  [Wrong about that bit of info]  Simply repairing the boobs damage (from the best quality source, laserdisc) on the later widescreen version made it a boobs restoration (hence this project's title).

I also thought the next immediate project would be a preservation of that best quality fullscreen laserdisc.  [Again, wrong about that info]

A later project might be an update-remake -- basically the preservation in widescreen.  [Wrong info again]  That would be tougher to do because the update required reprocessing the entire film (because of the new, boob-less animation models) on different equipment with different software (which took Pixar months to sort out). Side effect? It altered (however small) things like camera and character placement. Also I noticed the leaves/hair of Sunny Jamaica look as if they were rotated to clump differently (see pictures below). That would be a much bigger project.

And the last, topper, project? Why ... a 3D (or more accurately stereographics) reconstruction ... of course. With every object already independently layered for the previous project, this is would an easy final step. Except for snow flakes in the snow dome.

.

So, scratch the old, wrong info and let's add one more thing to this project. Color correction. The laserdisc source has boobs and original color (and should match the freeze-frame snapshots from Toy Story 2). The updated, superior resolution HD source for Knick Knack then must be color-corrected to match, before the boobs restoration onto it.

In lieu of a laserdisc snapshot , the picture below is trimmed out from the Toy Story 2 in-story TV screen ..

It is geometrically distorted (like an old glass-tube TV set), contrast reduced, and color de-saturated  (from the rest of the shot). To clarify it back into a real picture, it's luminance is spread back out (Low, & High) across the spectrum, strengthen by lightness (Gamma) and contrast (Midtones). I normally use RGB adjustments, but haven't figured out saturation yet. So, another tool was used to increase the color strength (Saturation). All values changed from their defaults are high-lighted as shown ..

Wow (on the left), that looks nice! It makes the update picture beside it (resized & TV-cropped to match, from the Finding Nemo extras) look dark, dingy, and just plain wrong. Note it's commentary subtitles, and no boobs ..

                                                                                              As you can see in the R-G-B adjustments, the
                                                                                              compressed highs were pulled back up
                                                                                              (High), the contrasts increased (Midtones),
                                                                                              and the lightnesses increased (Gamma).
                                                                                              In that process, the over-riding green tint
                                                                                              was less increased to let the normal color
                                                                                              come out. The red graph-overlays show
                                                                                              resulting spectrums ..

And the resulting color-corrected picture? Astounding! Well, almost astounding. Just two things missing ... and we'll take care of that, too. 

.

I hope you liked this demonstration. And in keeping with this project's subject matter, I presented it as ... well ... boobs.

.

Now this Knick Knack is original widescreen, original color, and original boobs ready!