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Spaced Ranger

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Join date
22-Feb-2009
Last activity
13-Feb-2017
Posts
986

Post History

Post
#502229
Topic
Pre-ANH bootleg telecine - a widescreen version (Released)
Time

skyjedi2005 said:

I have a super vhs player and all it does is take a bad image and smear it with noise reduction to make a less sharper image ...

Links in the above referred VideoHelp forum page gives a pretty extensive list of machines and their user rankings. You might be able to tell from that if your player is defective or not even in the running. ;)

Even different machines with the similar fix-up features produce noticeably different results, as demonstrated on "J.R." at forum discussion VCR comparison: JVC HR-S9600 & Panasonic NV-FS200 (AG-1980). And that doesn't take into account switching on or off the other processing options to produce the most pleasing result.

For any kind of VHS capture, I'd say TBC (true TBC) is a minimum requirement.

Post
#501972
Topic
Pre-ANH bootleg telecine - a widescreen version (Released)
Time

none said:

The source of this tape was kind enough to inform us of more details of where it came from ... But back to the topic here's the VHS Tape!

 

I don't suppose anyone has asked the owner to borrow the tape for playback in a semi-pro VHS machine for better capture? Combo VHS-to-DVD and regular consumer VHS machines are so sub-anyone's-standard.

For example, JVC Super VHS machines have "DigiPure Technology" for processing with:

  1. Digital Wide TBC (Time Base Corrector)
  2. 3-Dimensional Digital Circuit with 2 MB Frame Memory to make the following possible:
  • Precision 3-D Color Circuit for clearer color separation
  • Digital 3-D YNR/CNR to improve S/N ratio
  • Digital 3R Picture System to enhance detail

 

It might even be worth it for someone, in that enviable position, to pick one up from eBay at some nominal cost, if he doesn't already have one. There are a number of good models from which to choose and others have already done the research: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/310542-Best-VCR-Available-Today

Post
#350159
Topic
Puggo GRANDE - 16mm restoration (Released)
Time
Ripplin said:

(picture - April 1978 Fantastic Films magazine)
"Now you can see almost 8 minutes of exciting scenes from Star Wars in a specially condensed Super-8 version. All the visual splendor, the ships, effects, space battles, the heroes and villians of one of the finest Science Fiction films ever made."

"$8.95 for black & white silent version
$17.95 for color/silent version
$29.95 for color and sound version"

 

Woah! I'd go for the "color and sound" version, but only if it has the standard extras ... like director/actors/effects-crew commentaries, the-making-of documentary, behind-the-scenes videos, theatrical trailers, and web-isodes. (I'm glad the 1970's is long ago and far away.) :D

 

Post
#348821
Topic
Puggo GRANDE - 16mm restoration (Released)
Time
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

neither of the DVD players that I have tried have explicit settings for 4:3 vs 16:9.


I'm surprised to read this. Of units I've seen (in passing), DVD player setup is usually accessible via the remote control's dedicated "setup" button. There may be certain models that rely on covert number-pad sequence entries or "press & hold" keys -- those would be revealed in a user's manual or a website of "tips & tricks" for DVD players (like, for example, http://www.videohelp.com).

 

CORRECTION: My previous mention of an "auto" option for a DVD player was (at least) inaccurate. A standard DVD player cannot determine the type of TV to which it is attached. ("Hi-Def" and up-converting players using HDMI connections may be another matter.) It requires a manual setting to indicate whether to use the anamorphic flag to "squash & bar" the picture, as needed, for a "square TV", or to ignore the anamorphic flag to allow the "wide screen TV" to "expand" the picture, as needed (if the TV's setting is to do so).

 

Post
#348554
Topic
Puggo GRANDE - 16mm restoration (Released)
Time
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

The question is, should I choose 4:3 or 16:9.

In TMPGEnc (I'm looking at an old version, so menus & tabs may not be exact to yours), in the MPEG setting window, the Video tab is for setting how the video is output. For anamorphic video (which you want to be automatically detected and resized either in a stand-alone or software DVD player) these are the correct settings:

"Size" = "720" x "480"
"Aspect ratio" = "16:9 Display"

NOTE: the "16:9 Display" value merely sets an internal flag in the video. It specifies that the video, while ACTUALLY in 4:3 aspect ratio (720x480), should be SHOWN in 16:9 aspect ratio.

It doesn't seem to matter on both DVD players I've tried with my widescreen plasma TV. ... I can't tell any difference whether I selected 4:3 or 16:9

Both your DVD player and your plasma TV have independent resizing functions. Sometimes when changing a size on one device, the other device produces an unexpected effect. Just remember that those device settings are in relation to one another, not necessarily to the video.

To further complicate the matter, the TV and (possibly) the player have up-convertion functions. If your player up-converts the DVD from 480 to 1080, the TV will display it as-is. If the player does not, the TV will up-convert to 1080 to fill it's screen.

Suffice it to say, just confirm that the DVD player is set for "wide" or "auto" and that the TV is set to "full" or "aspect" (whatever the actual language they use). Then it will display correct.

If you cannot get it right, post the various display settings available on both your player and TV, and we'll sort it out.

in DVD-Lab ... one icon has larger letterboxes than the other ...

Is it normal for the 4:3 playback to still look unsquished (too tall)?

Yes, that is normal. The program icon is trying to fairly represent the video picture. If the video has it's aspect ratio flag set to 4:3 (even on an anamorphic video that also has pre-made bars, like your video and the official Star Wars movies), it will show unchanged. If that video has it's aspect ratio flag set to 16:9, the icon will compensate for the anamorphic squeeze, which results in thicker bars but properly ratio'ed picture area.

I thought that anamorphic DVDs were supposed to have correct aspect ratio regardless of playback at 4:3 or 16:9

Arbitrary settings change the "display equation". Video-to-player-to-TV is a process and arbitrary changes along the way will skew the ultimate result.

I know it's a difficult concept to see. That's because each device affects the outcome. If you really want to "get" what's going on, play around with the device settings and see what happens on a commercial widescreen DVD (to eliminate your video creation settings from the equation). It will make sense after a while.

 

Post
#346726
Topic
Puggo GRANDE - 16mm restoration (Released)
Time

I'm not up to date on resizers for AviSynth, but there are differences whether you use them for enlarging or reducing (some are good for one task but not for the other). Seeing that your captured film's anamorphic squeeze is not the same as the DVD's anamorphic proportions, you must resize your video.

Yes, you are correct in your procedure (to produce a DVD). As needed, you first adjust (non-proportional reduction in this case) your film's anamorphic proportion. Just resize the image to match that of the DVD direct capture (720x480) and it'll be right. Note it will still be in an anamorphic state at that point. Next, you set the video/authoring's anamorphic flag so that the DVD player will unsqueeze it to a 16:9 display or letterbox it to a 4:3 display. That's it.

DVD has a simple procedure for dealing with TV displays:

video . . . anamorphic flag . . 4:3 TV . . 16:9 TV . . displayed
720x480 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . *. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . direct
720x480 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . *. . . . . . . . . direct + sidebars
720x480 . . *. . . . . . . . . . . . . . *. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . expand + letterbox
720x480 . . *. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . *. . . . . . . . . expand

In practice, there are 3 display proportions that most movies follow:

Academy (4:3) = 1.33 aspect ratio
Widescreen (16:9) = 1.78 aspect ratio
Cinemascope (2.35:1) = 2.35 aspect ratio
(note: Cinemascope is a brand name; it represents all the other extra-widescreen formats)

The DVD standard is built to handle the first two and can accommodate the third (or any proportion-variation thereof) if partial letterboxing is pre-added to the video.

So, the Academy filmed Star Trek TV series would display like this:


The Widescreen filmed Silent Running would display like this:


And the Cinemascope filmed Star Wars would display like this:


NOTE: DVD media (720x480) raw-displayed on a computer screen APPEARS "fatter" than it does on a TV display. However, software DVD players generally reduce the viewing width (and screen captures) to 88.89% so it LOOKS correct. Activation of this aspect ratio correction usually can be toggled in the settings. So, too, the above examples have been reduced 88.89%, just to look better.

Post
#346419
Topic
Puggo GRANDE - 16mm restoration (Released)
Time

An additional note on the "anamorphic flag" (my bad for not being more complete). It is a flag set in your encoding software AND/OR your DVD authoring software. For example, in the freeware "DVDStyler" (a very well implemented GUI to "dvdauthor" -- both at "SourceForge"), the default video descriptor is "auto", where it uses the video's flag for anamorphic display. If you can't encode it with that flag set (or thereafter set the flag with a third party program), you may instruct your authoring software to force it to "16:9" in the parent menu properties and/or the video properties for anamorphic display.

http://www.dvdstyler.org/

Regarding anamorphoric sizes, I'm not sure if the standards of anamorphic lenses are equivalent to DVD standards. So I took your raw frame capture:


and superimposed on an anamorphic capture of the SW DVD and discovered I had to reduce the proportions and size of your capture to fit onto the official release:


This indicates that you must do some resizing, anyway, to get it ready for proper DVD anamorphic size. It shows how much of the picture was cropped for this printing. It also shows what your black border might look like when you're finished. Once displayed from DVD to TV, it will stretch wider for proper display (either 16:9 widescreen or letterboxed in 4:3).

 

Post
#346346
Topic
Puggo GRANDE - 16mm restoration (Released)
Time

Great project!

BTW, "telecine" is film's 24fps converted to video's 30fps using one of various frame or field duplicating techniques. MovieStuff projector output is single frame in film format (24fps). In this non-telecined state, it is perfectly suitable for DVD (with added pull-down flag for the DVD player).

BTW #2, the "anamorphic" format is optically squeezed image for optical expansion during projection. It is perfectly suitable for DVD (with added anamorphic flag for the DVD player to letterbox for 4:3 TV, or widen for 16:9 TV).

Examination of your frame captures shows a noticeable color fringing. This is due to the quality of your camcorder lens? Double-checking the MovieStuff website samples shows similar fringing, only not as pronounced. If you don't mind mentioning, what camcorder are you using? Are you capturing in hi-def (note that 16mm resolution is greater than our present, consumer hi-def standard)? Perhaps you should check with MovieStuff if something may be done to minimize fringing with your equipment. Failing a solution there, it would be useful if someone has a de-prism filter for AviSynth.

Does your new expanded film-gate allow the 16mm stock to be captured edge to edge (including sprocket holes and optical soundtrack)? That might be helpful if there is an film-optical-reader filter for AviSynth (optical sound without the projector amp noise!).