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ShiftyEyes

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Join date
11-Jul-2004
Last activity
10-Jul-2020
Posts
630

Post History

Post
#1361515
Topic
Info: Which do you prefer - teamnegative1's 4k77/4k83 or Harmy's Despecialized?
Time

I like the 4K77 and 4K83 versions. There’s a purity to the presentation there. It feels tactile and welcoming. And I think Sanjuro’s colors look real nice. Shoot, I even enjoy the heck out of the ESB Grindhouse despite all the noise and damage. The Blu-rays and 4K Blu-rays often look far too managed and manipulated - and not particularly well. Harmy’s and the D+ versions are very impressive. But they’re built on those Blu-rays and 4K Blu-rays so their flaws are often baked in, and with all the tricks used to “despecialize” them, it can feel like I’m watching a magic trick. I keep wondering how they pulled it off. I’ve been largely watching 4K content for a few years now, so Harmy’s in 720p doesn’t really cut it. I’m happy he’s working on a 4K version, but the D+ versions basically serve the same purpose. And if I want to watch the real original versions, I can just watch 4K77, 4K83 and hopefully 4K80 soon.

Post
#1339035
Topic
4K83 reel by reel color grading
Time

CatBus said:

ShiftyEyes said:

DrDre, I see the images you have in your shot by shot color correction of 4K83 thread are much more colorful and vibrant than your reel by reel color correction. Just curious what the differences are and with regards to accuracy/methodology.

He talks about it briefly here:

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/4K83-reel-by-reel-color-grading/id/73014/page/1#1327510

And I hope he never corrects his typo about people watching ROTJ “on the bog screen”, because it just cracks me up to imagine people watching it while sitting on the toilet.

Thanks!

Post
#1336830
Topic
Help: looking for... 1997 SE - both the flunk and reivax versions
Time

Interesting. I forgot about these versions. I even recently made a custom Blu-ray using the TB version. Turns out I have a DVD copy of the “flunk” version. Looks pretty good and I like the colors.

Seems there was some considerable noise reduction applied to the master for the '97 SE, resulting in a motion blurring type appearance.

Post
#1336723
Topic
Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga 4k UHD -- 27 DISC Boxed Set -- 3/31/2020
Time

adywan said:

Just got the 4k box set delivered. My god is this release seriously f**ked up. Why the hell is the HDR so damn dark, especially when you compare it to the Blu-Ray? But that’s not the thing thats really pissing me off with this release. No, it’s the special features that they class as “legacy features”. Who the hell was given the task of compiling these? An idiot? For a start features like TPM’s " The Beginning" , instead of using the 16:9 anamorphic master, they present this as 4:3 letterbox. So a small bloody picture surrounded by huge black bars all around the TV screen . And its a jaggedy mess . The version on the original DVD is better quality. (view the pictures full size because you can’t really see the difference in the shrunk preview here).

(Pictures are taken on my phone direct from the TV)

The TPM deleted scenes seem to be 16:9 anamorphic ( only checked 2 so far)

I then checked the ROTJ bonus features. First one i checked was the "revenge " teaser. Correct ratio but still DVD quality. Then onto the Revenge release trailer. WTF? Morons at work once again. Some idiot forgot to encode this with the 16:9 flag, so now its presented in 4:3 with all its squashed glory

And that’s just the features i have checked so far

I was really hoping that these bonus features ported over from the old DVDs would be slightly better quality due to compression. I never expected them to be worse. Waste of bloody money. I only purchased the UHD box set for the features and EP 9, as i will never watch the prequels. I wish i’d gone with my original plan and cancelled the box set when i ordered months ago and waited for the individual episodes to be released on UHD over here.

EDIT: Just checked “Anatomy of a Dewback” & ROTS’s “Within a Minute” features and both are 4:3 , jaggedy mess letterbox, the same as “The Beginning” . But ROTS’s “The journey” is 16:9 anamorphic but still suffers with the interlacing jaggedy mess issues

EDIT #2: Ripped the TPM bonus disc to the hard drive to see if it was an issue with my Sony UHD Bluray player but, no, the problems lie within the way they have been encoded. Even deinterlacing/ pulldown removal, the jaggies are still present. One interesting thing i didn’t spot before though is that it has the complete Theatrical version of the Pod Race in 1080p. I don’t remember this being available before

I noticed this as well. The deleted scenes from the prequel DVDs are an inconsistent mess too. Some are 4x3 letterboxed & jagged, some are squashed, and some look fine.

Post
#1333714
Topic
Star Wars Prequels 35mm 4K Filmized Editions by Emanswfan
Time

emanswfan said:

Here’s some test footage from TPM.

https://mega.nz/#!qLxAzCYb!0WnWHc9JtCHjiQIYMe1NZ00JCbKKGfI5C3OkwFXYT8g

This doesn’t have the sharpening/deblocking filter on it as that is a shot by shot process and is VERY resource intensive, and so is reserved for screenshots for now.

I redid the grading again: added a little blue and pink, desaturated the colors a bit. Increased grain and added a bit of flicker.

Much like the previous screenshots, these are first dips into working from the new 4K Blu-ray, so feedback is very much welcome.

I did look at the trailer posted earlier, and I did end up creating a look nearly identical, but I thought it looked too blue and desaturated and was really wondering if that was an accurate color corrected view of the trailer print. Still I pushed a little bit closer to what the colors looked like there, but still kept warmth.

Hey now! That test clip looks really good to me, and the grain is really satisfying.

I guess it depends on what you’re after. If you want a darker, noisier film print look, the test clip does a good job at that. But it has a slightly grungy look to it.

I’d personally prefer something more like a brand new, pristine 4K digital remaster like Sony would release on 4K Blu-ray. A little brighter (as you’ve already adjusted) and maybe take the noise/flicker down just a touch.

Post
#1332124
Topic
<strong>Return Of The Jedi</strong> - a General <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> thread
Time

I don’t read any of the expanded universe stuff or the tie-in novels or comics, so these are just thoughts/questions I had while watching the 4K blu-ray of ROTJ earlier today.

Was Leia demoted within the Rebel Alliance or something? She’s seen barking orders in ESB. In ROTJ, she has no clue what’s going on and that Han was put in command of leading the assault on the shield generator. Somehow known traitors, gamblers, mercenaries and smugglers were advanced within the Rebel ranks ahead of her. Is she considered a general at this time?

What kind of training did Luke get between ESB and ROTJ? I’ve heard some say he could’ve easily visited Yoda to finish his training between the films, but it’s clear that this is his first time speaking to Yoda and Obi-Wan since the events of ESB. Maybe he did some practice and learned how to build a lightsaber, but is that all you need to be a Jedi?

Obi-Wan is pretty sure Luke has to straight up murder Darth Vader. He’s pretty upset when Luke tells him he can’t.

Post
#1330924
Topic
What's everybody's favorite Original Trilogy movie - Star Wars, Empire, or Jedi?
Time

I’ve always loved The Empire Strikes Back the best even when I watched the trilogy for the first time as a kid.

I saw the first movie on TV back around 1997 without really knowing it was a trilogy. This was around the time of the SE theatrical release in January '97. I think WPIX 11 was taking advantage of the new SE version by playing the original version on a weeknight. I’d already seen some pop cultural references to Star Wars so I was a bit disappointed by what I saw. I was confused by the Episode 4 crawl. Was I missing Episodes 1-3? It was kind of long but also didn’t really go anywhere, and I’d thought I’d seen stills from scenes that wasn’t in it. I thought Darth Vader was supposed to have a bigger role. And wasn’t there supposed to be more lightsaber stuff? And to be honest, it felt a little stuffy and slow-paced for an 8-year-old kid in 1997.

I didn’t get to the see the other two until later that year. By this point, I must’ve seen the commercials for the other two movies so I convinced my parents to buy me that gold Special Edition VHS set in August. I loved The Empire Strikes Back. It was more like what I was expecting from the first film. It was more adventurous, more planets and spaceships, there was the fun and snappy dialogue and pacing, a nice and clean aesthetic, all the Force spirituality/mythology stuff with Yoda, Darth Vader being a badass, and a cool lightsaber fight at the end. And it’s the only one I thought Luke seemed like a traditional hero.

Return of the Jedi was fine, but I really didn’t like all the icky Jabba’s palace creatures. I had a strange aversion to slimey creatures and makeup effects at this time (I think I somehow saw Phantom of the Paradise on TV when I was really young and was freaked out by the makeup). And adding some erotic slave girl Leia stuff was perhaps a bit weird for me (now aged 9). Equally aroused and disgusted at the same time. Otherwise, Ewoks were cute. I didn’t like the Palpatine makeup. He reminded my too much of the witch from Snow White, who always scared me as a kid. I didn’t like Luke in this. The bad haircut, black outfit, and emo attitude didn’t work for me. But the space battle and final Luke vs Vader fight were cool.

Oh, and I remember really liking the CGI in the special editions. Really refreshed these old movies and made it feel new and and appealing for kids my age. Lol.

I still feel much the same way. I’m not as opposed the makeup and creature effects. I love the first movie now, much more than I did the first time around. Empire is still the best. I’m mostly bored with ROTJ now. Sail barge, the space battle and the Luke/Vader/Palpatine confrontation are great. But everything else is pretty dull and the other actors/characters are sleepwalking through it. ROTJ also looks so bland visually. Nowadays, I don’t mind the CGI changes so much. Some of them are really needless and I wish they’d at least re-do the terrible 1997 graphics.

Post
#1320517
Topic
Rumor: COUNTDOWN to 'The Rise of Skywalker' - EXTENDED CUT...
Time

Broom Kid said:

That’s not a Disney thing, really - that sort of thing almost never happens at any studio. And if it does, it only happens DECADES later.

Part of the reason “The Beginning” was so remarkable back in 2001 was because people DIDN’T do that for new movies. And Lucasfilm never really did it again, either. And “The Beginning” was still somewhat sanitized.

People love behind-the-scenes drama - but the people who have to still work in the industry once the drama is over don’t love it very much, and they don’t love having a salable version of it available at will for consumers to memorize, either. So those sorts of “warts ‘n’ all” documentaries and tell-alls are for later, when that effect diminished, and there’s a lot of distance accumulated.

it’s not a question of Disney trying to appear squeaky clean, it’s more that nobody wants their dirty laundry from work aired out like that.

The documentary on “The Last Jedi” was refreshingly honest for that sort of thing, and sort of surprising that Disney/Lucasfilm was okay with the “Mark Hamill hates what they’ve done with Luke” narrative. I think it has more to do with Rian Johnson, who seems to be more of an upfront filmmaker who’ll explain his creative process, influences, etc. JJ is a much more guarded filmmaker when it comes to the creative process and also seems more of a company man, even if he may have been frustrated by the experience of Episode 9. But of course it makes sense for Disney to try to sweep any creative difficulties under the rug.

Post
#1309796
Topic
<em>The Empire Strikes Back</em> has a similar problem to <em>The Force Awakens</em>, and it isn't really talked about that much.
Time

Yeah, I don’t buy this. They defeat the big battle station and that’s it. Darth Vader’s still around. The Emperor is still around. They never try to paint it as more than a momentary victory in a galactic war. Both the Holiday Special and Splinter of the Mind’s Eye are released the following year and the Empire is alive and kicking in both.

Post
#1305564
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

It seems I may have been a bit too harsh in my assessment of the 4K remasters on Disney+. I was surprised to see some more generally positive reviews which prompted me to give them another look. And viewing them again in 4K on an Apple TV, they still looked pretty bad. But then I decided to try my other streaming devices. Disney+ doesn’t seem to support 4K on the PS4 Pro yet? And my Nvidia Shield TV would only play these in 4K with HDR10, but they actually look better streaming on the Shield TV. The issues I noticed were still there (DNR, edge enhancement, frozen grain in backgrounds), but it was on the whole a more consistent and even satisfying presentation than what I got from my Apple TV. Just goes to remind me why I hate streaming!

Post
#1305286
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

FreezingTNT2 said:

ShiftyEyes said:

Fang Zei said:

Does anyone have a D+ subscription and the hardware to stream it in 4k (even if it’s only in sdr)? I’d be very curious what the OT looks like at full 2160p res. The compression probably cancels out some of the extra detail, but I would still think this looks better than what we’ve had to live with for the last 15 years.

Rogue One was also finished in 4k IIRC, so there should be some increase in detail, compression notwithstanding. TFA was only finished in 2k AFAIK, but the hdr should impress.

It’s the stuck-in-2k PT that I’m maybe the most curious about, both in terms of the 4k upscale and how it fares in hdr.

I posted my thoughts earlier, watched these 4K LED display with Dolby Vision via an Apple TV device.

ShiftyEyes said:

I sampled the 4K versions of the OT on Disney+ earlier. They share a lot of the same issues as the 2004/2011 masters. Colors are the biggest improvement. Colors are better and they’ve dropped the blue and pink color casts from the SE and previous DVD/Blu-ray releases. Unfortunately, it looks like another job from Lowry/Reliance Mediaworks. Moderate digital noise reduction, edge enhancement, frozen grain. Close ups look pretty solid, if not a bit soft. But anything wider and you start to see the issues. Basically, a huge disappointment if you’re a videophile and have been waiting for these 4K masters for years.

I think they’re fairly poor remasters. Casual viewers may think they’re fine, but technically they’re pretty bad especially compared to some of the stellar 4K releases of “Blade Runner”, “2001: A Space Odyssey”, “Close Encounters of the Third Kind”, etc. we’ve gotten in recent years. Basically, the remastering team degrained the whole thing and detail was taken off as a result. They then sharpen the image and then add some light homogeneous digital grain so it doesn’t look too mushy. It all results in a splotchy, filtered look with new digital artifacts do to all the noise reduction and grain manipulation. They essentially freeze frame the backgrounds so the film grain doesn’t move. It’s almost as if the actors are standing in front of photographs rather than real locations/sets. If you have any appreciation for how film should look, it’s really weird. These are basically the same tricks Lowry/Reliance has been using for years and it was fine on the DVD days and passable in 1080p, but in 4K, it really shows. Hell, what’s the point of scanning the original camera negatives in 4K if you’re just going to filter off all the detail and mess it up with your own digital artifacts?

So you’re saying that film grain is a good thing and should never be touched?

Film grain is part of the look of the film. When it’s managed well, you shouldn’t notice. Problem is, messing around with the grain structure usually results in its own digital artifacts and issues which are far more distracting than the grain itself.

Take a look at 4K77. Personally, I think the grain is too heavy in many scenes but the DNR versions aren’t really improvements to me. The noise reduction introduces its own issues.

Post
#1305201
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

Fang Zei said:

Does anyone have a D+ subscription and the hardware to stream it in 4k (even if it’s only in sdr)? I’d be very curious what the OT looks like at full 2160p res. The compression probably cancels out some of the extra detail, but I would still think this looks better than what we’ve had to live with for the last 15 years.

Rogue One was also finished in 4k IIRC, so there should be some increase in detail, compression notwithstanding. TFA was only finished in 2k AFAIK, but the hdr should impress.

It’s the stuck-in-2k PT that I’m maybe the most curious about, both in terms of the 4k upscale and how it fares in hdr.

I posted my thoughts earlier, watched these 4K LED display with Dolby Vision via an Apple TV device.

ShiftyEyes said:

I sampled the 4K versions of the OT on Disney+ earlier. They share a lot of the same issues as the 2004/2011 masters. Colors are the biggest improvement. Colors are better and they’ve dropped the blue and pink color casts from the SE and previous DVD/Blu-ray releases. Unfortunately, it looks like another job from Lowry/Reliance Mediaworks. Moderate digital noise reduction, edge enhancement, frozen grain. Close ups look pretty solid, if not a bit soft. But anything wider and you start to see the issues. Basically, a huge disappointment if you’re a videophile and have been waiting for these 4K masters for years.

I think they’re fairly poor remasters. Casual viewers may think they’re fine, but technically they’re pretty bad especially compared to some of the stellar 4K releases of “Blade Runner”, “2001: A Space Odyssey”, “Close Encounters of the Third Kind”, etc. we’ve gotten in recent years. Basically, the remastering team degrained the whole thing and detail was taken off as a result. They then sharpen the image and then add some light homogeneous digital grain so it doesn’t look too mushy. It all results in a splotchy, filtered look with new digital artifacts do to all the noise reduction and grain manipulation. They essentially freeze frame the backgrounds so the film grain doesn’t move. It’s almost as if the actors are standing in front of photographs rather than real locations/sets. If you have any appreciation for how film should look, it’s really weird. These are basically the same tricks Lowry/Reliance has been using for years and it was fine on the DVD days and passable in 1080p, but in 4K, it really shows. Hell, what’s the point of scanning the original camera negatives in 4K if you’re just going to filter off all the detail and mess it up with your own digital artifacts?

Post
#1304817
Topic
4K restoration on Star Wars
Time

I sampled the 4K versions of the OT on Disney+ earlier. They share a lot of the same issues as the 2004/2011 masters. Colors are the biggest improvement. Colors are better and they’ve dropped the blue and pink color casts from the SE and previous DVD/Blu-ray releases. Unfortunately, it looks like another job from Lowry/Reliance Mediaworks. Moderate digital noise reduction, edge enhancement, frozen grain. Close ups look pretty solid, if not a bit soft. But anything wider and you start to see the issues. Basically, a huge disappointment if you’re a videophile and have been waiting for these 4K masters for years.

Post
#1275739
Topic
Project 4K80
Time

canofhumdingers said:

Dreamastered V2 is impressive but it’s still got a lot of issues. Some of the colors (especially the lightsaber duel in the carbon freeze chamber) are still very… odd looking. And there’s a LOT of digital cleaning artifacts. Lots of partly or completely erased laserbolts. And things that move quickly, especially in the foreground, can be quite weird as random parts get erased. It’s incredibly impressive what he was able to do with such a rough and faded source, but personally I prefer either the original grindhouse or Harmy’s latest version (V2 still I think?) of despecialized. But that’s largely because I personally prefer a recreation or slightly faded colors over digital artifacts and erasures.

Still, dreamaster’s work is incredibly interesting and I do enjoy having it as another option when I get the itch to watch ESB.

As for finding dreamaster’s V1 or 2, eh… you’ll probably have to track him down and ask him. They’re hard to find on purpose from what I understand.

A lot of work seems to have gone into the Dreamastered version, but I much prefer the Grindhouse version even with all the dirt, noise, scratches, etc. Dreamastered is filtered within an inch of its life. All the texture of the 35mm print is gone and kinda defeats the point in a way. As said, the cleanup has left a lot of digital artifacts that I find more distracting than the dirt it cleaned up. And the colors seem overcooked to me.

Started watching the trilogy again this weekend with 4K77 v1.4 and thought I’d continue with the Dreamastered version of ESB but just couldn’t get into it. I’ll continue with the Grindhouse version instead.