Servii

Vladius said:

act on instinct said:

Servii said:

I agree with what SparkySywer said above.

I get what George is trying to say about attachment, but it bugs me that he considers emotional connection to your own mother, or simply the act of falling in love with someone, as something problematic. Anakin falling for Padme is portrayed as a dangerous thing, like it’s a “sin,” but Anakin’s behavior towards Padme doesn’t become overtly possessive until RotS. It’s hard to gauge what Lucas considers to be crossing the line from “good” love to “bad/possessive” love. And we don’t really see much of the Jedi showing that compassionate love to people. And maybe that was intentional, but I don’t think it was.

I understand the resistance to the ideas about attachments but that’s really something to take up with Buddhism/Hinduism more than Lucas who is being a pretty loyal messenger to the eastern view on such things, rather than misinterpreting or inventing.

From the Bhagavad Gita, I’m sure it will sound familiar:
https://panindiahindu.wordpress.com/2017/05/17/love-vs-attachment-in-the-context-of-gita/

Exactly. It’s very difficult for a secular, materialist, western audience to accept the idea of not leading yourself by your emotions or what gives you “fulfillment” or sexual desire.

Though this is muddled by George himself saying that Jedi aren’t celibate.

Really, if a Jedi has been raised in the temple all their life and has the necessary wisdom and mental discipline to avoid selfish attachment, I see no reason why they couldn’t get married.

The two main things I consider with this question are

a) ANH is the best point of introduction to the setting. It does the best job of easing you into its world.

b) Jumping around too much in the timeline would be confusing to young viewers.

That’s why I’d go with the compromise of watching the OT first, then watching the rest of the films (and shows, too, if you want) in chronological order. If we were just talking about the episode films, that would make things even simpler, since that would just be Release Order. But the existence of the spinoff movies and shows requires that I find a place for them, and the best place I can think of is between RotS and TFA, treating them as appendices to the main story.

Shows like The Acolyte will complicate this, since they take place before TPM.

In terms of raw power, Luke was never one of the strongest Force users. He wasn’t loaded with midichlorians, and he was a relatively mid-level Jedi, overall.

This reinforces to me the idea that Luke wasn’t made great by his power, but by his kindness and moral quality.

fmalover said:

IMO Genndy Tartakovsky’s Clone Wars series fits in a lot better between AotC and RotS than TCW.

Yeah, I think so, too.

The more I think about it, the more I doubt that it would really be possible to write the prequels with chrono order in mind in a way that works well. I think I might just embrace release order and lean into that rather than trying to preserve the OT’s twists.

ANH does a perfectly fine job of getting a first-time viewer to understand what’s going on. It was designed that way, and it never needed any preceding films. Ultimately, the prequels were designed to be prequels. Their whole existence is relative to the OT, while the OT stood on its own before the prequels came out. Basically, the prequels need the OT far more than vice versa. In that sense, despite being chronologically earlier than the OT, the prequels are a franchise “continuation” and should be treated as such.

darklordoftech said:

Servii said:

If I had to give Palpatine a backstory, as much as I liked his characterization in the Darth Plagueis novel, if it were up to me, I’d probably go with the “ancient being” angle. Have him be this eldritch, demonic entity where no one knows how long he’s existed.

Maybe he could be the one who ruled the galaxy 1000 years before the movies?

That could be left open to viewer speculation. Though I’d rather they stayed consistent with the “thousand generations” Obi-Wan mentioned in ANH.

I agree with what SparkySywer said above.

I get what George is trying to say about attachment, but it bugs me that he considers emotional connection to your own mother, or simply the act of falling in love with someone, as something problematic. Anakin falling for Padme is portrayed as a dangerous thing, like it’s a “sin,” but Anakin’s behavior towards Padme doesn’t become overtly possessive until RotS. It’s hard to gauge what Lucas considers to be crossing the line from “good” love to “bad/possessive” love. And we don’t really see much of the Jedi showing that compassionate love to people. And maybe that was intentional, but I don’t think it was.

As for politics, yeah, I get what George was trying to say, but the historical parallels he makes don’t really work. The politics in the prequels line up more with modern American politics, or rather George’s personal view of American politics. George is a great creative mind and a great worldbuilder, but he’s not a great political analyst.

Call Me…Ocean Master said:

Servii said:

I prefer Shaw because I usually watch the saga in Release Order, so at the end of RotJ, you the viewer haven’t seen Hayden yet, and a first-time viewer would be confused about who he is.

Also, Shaw looks more like a proud father. Hayden looks…off. George really should have shot some proper footage of Hayden for that moment, if he was so intent on changing it.

Do you think it could be a good lead-in to the prequel movies if someone were to see Hayden on their first viewing of the OT and ROTJ?

No, not really. It would just be confusing to them, at that point. A first-time viewer might not even put together that the ghost on the left is Anakin unless they’re told so. When it’s Shaw, the viewer will at least recognize the actor’s face from earlier.

Darth Malgus said:

I don’t understand why everyone says the age difference between Anakin and Padmé is weird. I mean, when they met in The Phantom Menace they were both minors, and when they met again in Attack of the Clones they were both adults, so I don’t understand what the problem is. Anakin and Padmé have an age difference of 5 years, while the age difference between Han and Leia is 10 years, yet I have never heard anyone complain about the age difference between Han and Leia. Not to mention that in The Phantom Menace Padmé wasn’t in love with Anakin, she only fell in love with him in Attack of the Clones, when they were both adults (Anakin was 20 years old). It was Anakin who was in love with Padmé since The Phantom Menace, not vice versa. So I really don’t understand what the problem is and why people complain.

The age difference is made creepier by the fact that Padme’s relationship with Anakin in TPM seems almost maternal. And Padme largely acts like an adult in that movie, and interacts with the plot and the other characters in ways that an adult would, while Anakin is still very much presented as a child. Even Marcia Lucas thought it was weird when she watched it.

If I had to give Palpatine a backstory, as much as I liked his characterization in the Darth Plagueis novel, if it were up to me, I’d probably go with the “ancient being” angle. Have him be this eldritch, demonic entity where no one knows how long he’s existed.

G&G-Fan said:

I remember earlier there was discussion about whether it was Lucas’ intention to depict the Jedi as flawed and arrogant and that they failed Anakin. Well the answer to that is no.

https://www.quora.com/What-was-George-Lucas-trying-to-say-in-the-prequels/answer/David-Talks-SW

I recommend reading this guy’s answers, he’s really good and does a lot of research.

This guy knows his stuff. A very well researched answer.

The whole modern fan interpretation that “the Jedi failed Anakin” had always bugged me. It’s not supported by the films themselves or by George’s words. Anakin’s main grievances with the Jedi were simply that they weren’t promoting him fast enough and not teaching him everything about the Force asap.

I never knew that Anakin had long hair to parallel Qui-gon. That’s a surprise to me.

I read somewhere that new man in charge at Disney is also known to be pretty stingy where as Iger would throw money at projects, so maybe that’s a factor. But I have not done any research on that so that might not be true at all.

Yeah, I’ve heard that, too. The new CEO, Bob Chapek, has a reputation for being an aggressive cost cutter.

Luke already foresaw through the Force how his conflict with Jabba was going to end, or at least what the ideal outcome for him and his friends was. He just wanted to give Jabba a chance to solve things nonviolently.

You can notice that Luke nods along and looks almost pleased when 3PO is announcing their death sentence from Jabba. At that point, Luke has exhausted every alternative option (bargaining, stealth, Force persuasion), and he knew beforehand that this was what was most likely to happen.

Anchorhead said:

haraldo23 said:

regularjoe said:

Saying that Star Wars is too centered on Tatooine is like asking why books about World War 1 and World War 2 keep talking about Germany.

Is it? It plays a big role in ANH and TPM, but it’s very arguable whether the movies were actually centered around Tatooine - at least TPM - cause Naboo and the space/Death Star settings mogged Tatooine in both of them. None of the other movies were centered around it. In fact, the best prequel (ROTS) and the best original (ESB) had the least to do with it, so maybe it’s time to take a hint.

The difference being that discussions of WWI and WWII have to include Germany. Star Wars films after 1977 do not. They do only because Lucas had writer’s block trying to pen any sort of story after the only film he had written or planned in the 1970s. He’s the one who has tied us, unfortunately, to The Solar System Far far Away.

I didn’t mind returning to Tatooine in RotJ, since the “return home as a changed man” is often part of the hero’s journey. And it made sense for Anakin to be from Tatooine, since that was implied in ANH. I wouldn’t mind Tatooine being so often revisited if other planets were similarly fleshed out, but they haven’t been.

In the scene where Luke reunites with Biggs and meets Red Leader, when Lucas added the scene back in, he deleted one of Red Leader’s lines, which went something like:

“I met your father when I was just a boy. He was a great pilot. If you’re half as good as he was, you’ll do alright.”

Apparently, the line was cut because Lucas thought it contradicted the lore that he’d established later. But does it, really, though? Couldn’t Anakin have met Red Leader during the Clone Wars?

I prefer Shaw because I usually watch the saga in Release Order, so at the end of RotJ, you the viewer haven’t seen Hayden yet, and a first-time viewer would be confused about who he is.

Also, Shaw looks more like a proud father. Hayden looks…off. George really should have shot some proper footage of Hayden for that moment, if he was so intent on changing it.

I haven’t watched the show yet. But from what I’m hearing about it, I definitely wish it had been a 2-hour movie, instead. A movie would have less filler and higher production value, and it would complete an anthology film “trilogy.” I’m interested to see what fan editors are able to do with this show.

I wish Disney and Lucasfilm hadn’t abandoned the anthology film format.

In hindsight, I’d probably go ahead and put Rogue One in C-tier, as well.

His name? Jedi Master Jorus C’baoth.

Actually, wait. This might be a crazy idea, but what if it was Sifo Dyas, instead?

Darth Malgus said:

Servii said:

Darth Malgus said:

Out of curiosity, why the 2011 Special Editions, specifically? Is it just that they’re the ones you happen to own, or do you consider those in particular to be the best/definitive versions?

I prefer the Special Editions of 2011 because they are the most recent ones, and also because they are the first Special Editions I watched, so I’m more fond of them. I think despite some small bad changes the Special Editions of 2011 are the best ones.

The 2019 versions are the most recent ones. The “maclunkey” versions.

Are there 2019 Special Editions? 😮

Yeah, they’re the ones that are on Disney+ and on the 4K disc versions. The changes are mostly minor tweaks that were made by George in 2012 in preparation for the 3D releases of Star Wars, so they’re still George’s versions. Besides that, the color grading is very different from the 2011 versions, and is generally a big improvement visually.

Hal 9000 said:

What’s the long term plan for Star Wars? It seems like there’s just going to be an endless string of chronologically haphazard stories, with no central time period of where the overall story is “now.”

I think you’ve pretty much got it. They seem to be mainly focusing on the pre-OT and post-OT eras for now. That may change when the movies start coming out again.

Edit: I forgot about Eclipse and Acolyte and the High Republic stuff. That muddles things a bit more.

I’m sure casual viewers are pretty confused by the chronology at this point.

CarboniteSolo said:

Qui-Gon was more friendlier and talked to Anakin like his equal. Anakin could tell he actually cared for him.

Whereas Kenobi who thought Anakin was this lower life form, just like Jar Jar. He ONLY trained Anakin because it was his master’s last dying wish. Had he not said that, Kenobi would have brought him back to Tatooine.

Kenobi did not treat him as an equal, but rather a student who didn’t deserve it. He would tell his student everything he was doing wrong, but never did he praise him, treat him fair, like Qui-Gon would have.

This calls into question why prequel Obi-wan is such a well liked character, in the first place. In the movies, he doesn’t really become likeable until RotS.

It can’t be disputed that George borrowed some EU concepts in The Clone Wars show and in his sequel trilogy ideas (i.e. Darth Talon), so he definitely considered it a form of source material to draw from. And its well known that he would veto ideas from EU authors if he disliked those ideas (i.e. having a clone of Vader in Dark Empire instead of Palpatine). Yes, we get that George didn’t consider it part of his own canon, but he still oversaw the EU, in large part.

And if it was never counted as Canon, then why did Disney bother to announce they were decanonizing it? The Canon “tier” system existed for a reason. EU was a lower level of Canon, and existed in a sort of grey area, but it wasn’t entirely non-canon like it is now. The binary “Canon/non-canon” distinction didn’t apply back then.

Darth Malgus said:

Out of curiosity, why the 2011 Special Editions, specifically? Is it just that they’re the ones you happen to own, or do you consider those in particular to be the best/definitive versions?

I prefer the Special Editions of 2011 because they are the most recent ones, and also because they are the first Special Editions I watched, so I’m more fond of them. I think despite some small bad changes the Special Editions of 2011 are the best ones.

The 2019 versions are the most recent ones. The “maclunkey” versions.

Darth Malgus said:

I usually watch the films in chronological order, excluding both the Sequel Trilogy and Solo. So:

The Phantom Menace (Blu-ray)
Attack of the Clones (Blu-ray)
Revenge of the Sith (Blu-ray)
Rogue One (Blu-ray)
A New Hope (2011 Special Edition)
The Empire Strikes Back (2011 Special Edition)
Return of the Jedi (2011 Special Edition)

Sometimes I also like to watch the films in the Machete Order (without excluding The Phantom Menace), but most of the time I watch them in chronological order, because I am a very meticulous person and I prefer the chronological order.

Out of curiosity, why the 2011 Special Editions, specifically? Is it just that they’re the ones you happen to own, or do you consider those in particular to be the best/definitive versions?