Servii

I have to admit, when I first joined this community and saw the title of this thread, I had a knee-jerk negative reaction to it, out of defensiveness on George’s behalf. But as time has passed and I’ve had more time to think on these things and discuss them with people, I’ve realized how important threads like this are for documenting all that’s been said over time. Many, many fans take George’s statements at face value, and are under the impression that everything was planned out from the beginning to be a certain way. Maybe George has even convinced himself that that’s the case. But threads like this help remind people that the franchise’s history is more complicated than that.

I usually prefer to watch each trilogy as its own self-contained three-part story. So:

The main story:
Star Wars (4K77)
Empire Strikes Back (4K80)
Return of the Jedi (4K83)

(Optional stopping point)

The backstory:
The Phantom Menace (Blu-ray or 4K99)
Attack of the Clones (Blu-ray)
Revenge of the Sith (Blu-ray)

(Optional stopping point)

The appendices:
Rogue One (Blu-ray), Solo (Blu-ray), Kenobi, Mandalorian, etc. (Order doesn’t really matter here.)

(Optional stopping point)

The legacy era:
The Force Awakens (Blu-ray)
The Last Jedi (Blu-ray)
Rise of Skywalker (Blu-ray)

Basically, I just watch the OT first, then watch the rest of the films in more-or-less chronological order. I enjoy watching fan edits, but I usually don’t include them in a saga marathon.

If I’m watching the Special Editions of the OT, then I’ll usually watch the episodes in chronological order (with Rogue One sometimes placed between RotS and ANH), though I think I’ll try Machete Order next time to see if I like it.

Anakin Starkiller said:

Sirius said:

I always have the impression that Kathleen Kennedy cares more about girl power than understanding star wars as a whole.

You know, sometimes it’s hard to tell what’s a genuine intention she’s expressing when making the thing and what’s just marketing buzzwords. She could easily just be talking girl power to drum up hype with wokeys without actually factoring it into the creative process. It’s like when a company changes their logo to be rainbow colored for “Pride Month” (which itself is a disgustingly consumerist concept). It’s not a political stance, it’s “Look, we’re just like you! Buy our product!” I think the same can apply here. They talked up the “diversity” of the Rogue One cast big time in the lead-up to its release, for example. Just ignore the marketing buzz.

I agree. I think it’s just marketing rhetoric. They wouldn’t talk that way unless they thought it was advantageous to do so.

JadedSkywalker said:

The celibate monk thing goes back to the 1974 screenplay but was dropped in the actual movies and the EU. Only to be recanonized contexualized in the prequel. Like midi clorians being too similar to the Kaiburr Crystal as a way to describe the force. its something that should have not been revisited.

My opinion.

The weird thing is, I recall an interview from the early 2000’s where George stated that Jedi actually aren’t technically celibate. They’re just not allowed to have emotional relationships, but it’s technically okay for them to have sex. Which is weirder to me. I need to find where he said that.

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

I’ve revised my Sequel Trilogy concept.

The Galactic Civil War continued for another 2 decades after Endor, becoming a long, grinding effort to drive back what was left of the Empire. At last, the receding Empire sued for peace with the Republic, with the resulting treaty favoring the Republic and ensuring the Empire could never reclaim its lost territory.

An extremist splinter faction of the Empire, calling themselves the First Order, refused to accept the treaty and launched a surprise attack into Republic space. The First Order was able to devastate the Republic world Mon Calamari before being pushed back by a joint Republic-Empire force. Emperor Roan Fel denounced the First Order as traitors, and aided the Republic in pursuing the First Order into deep space.

Going against the cautionary advice of his uncle Luke, young Jedi Knight Ben Solo joined this military effort, demanding justice for the lives lost on Mon Calamari. Ben quickly rose to the status of war hero as he became a key player in the battles along the edges of the Unknown Regions. The First Order fought with fanaticism, being pushed back planet by planet at a steep cost to both sides.

Then, out of nowhere, the First Order seemingly abandoned the war, and vanished into the Unknown Regions. Ben then spent the next few years working alongside Republic Special Ops officer Poe Dameron to explore and chart the Unknown Regions and track down the First Order fleet. Poe was eventually recalled back to Coruscant, leaving Ben to continue his search alone.

Ben finally discovers where they fled to: the old Imperial prison world of Belsavis. Strangely, the First Order doesn’t fire on his ship when he arrives, instead hailing him and telling him that he is expected at a specific location on the planet. Ben goes along with this, sensing no trap or deception, and arrives at the most heavily locked down place on the planet. A First Order officer greets him as he lands, but Ben notes that something seems off about him, as though he’s not acting of his own free will. The strange officer leads him into the deepest part of the prison, to meet with their new leader. Someone who had been kept in bodily stasis there for several decades, per Emperor Palpatine’s orders.

His name? Jedi Master Jorus C’baoth.

Palpatine considered C’baoth a potential asset due to his unusually powerful battle meditation, and instead of killing him, had him imprisoned and kept in semi-conscious stasis as a form of torture, hoping to break his will and make him serve the Empire. C’baoth never broke, and had remained in stasis all those years after Palpatine’s death. But in his confined state, his mental Force powers grew, until he was able to not just influence people, but outright destroy a person’s identity and enslave their mind to his will. When the First Order fleet arrived over Belsavis, C’baoth sensed their coming, and mentally subjugated their highest ranking members, essentially turning the faction into his own personal army.

Ben spoke with C’baoth for a long time, learning from him about the ancient history of the Jedi and Sith. The two Jedi spoke long on morality and philosophy, and C’baoth showed Ben the remains of dead planets, devastated long ago in the Great Hyperspace War. He led Ben to the same conclusion he had reached: that as long as the Jedi existed, a new Sith would inevitably reemerge, and the resulting war would devastate the galaxy, as had happened many times before. From Ben, C’baoth learns about Luke Skywalker and his new Jedi academy on Yavin IV. C’baoth condemns the new Jedi Order as folly. “It may take 50 years,” C’baoth declared. “It may take 1000 years. It does not matter. This new Order will one day breed a new Sith. It should never have been founded.”

C’baoth then made clear to Ben his plans for the galaxy. He intended to use the First Order to seize control of the Empire, and then sweep across the galaxy, forcefully unifying it under his leadership. The concept of individual freedom would be annihilated. All other Force users would be compelled to sever their own connection to the Force or be put to death. Having found Ben Solo, the heir of Darth Vader, the final piece of C’baoth’s plan was complete, and he could begin his power play.

This is where Episode VII begins. In this rewrite, rather than revering Darth Vader, Ben Solo takes up the mantle of Lord Vader as a calculated move to assert his legitimacy to the Empire. Wearing a mask and suit largely modeled after Vader’s, but modified in several ways to suit his own body, he leads a First Order surprise attack on the Imperial capital world of Bastion. Fighting his way past the Emperor’s elite guards, he hunts down and fatally wounds Emperor Fel before declaring himself publically as Lord Vader and the rightful ruler of the Empire. He then gives an impassioned speech calling for renewed war against the Republic, and the restoration of Imperial authority over the Galactic Core.

The surviving members of the Emperor’s guard are given a choice: kneel or die. Most of them submit to the new Vader, and many stormtroopers on the planet join them, while many others remain loyal to Fel. Civil war breaks out in the streets before the pro-Vader faction secures control of Bastion. Amid the chaos, a small contingent of loyalist stormtroopers break into the Imperial Palace and rescue the badly wounded Emperor. Once it becomes clear that the battle is lost, these troopers attempt to shuttle the dying Emperor off of the planet to safe territory, but their ship is severely damaged as it tries to escape, losing its hyperdrive. The ship is then pursued across space by TIE fighters before being shot down and crash landing on the planet Jakku. Every passenger is killed instantly except for Emperor Fel and a lone stormtrooper. The last trooper tries to pull the Emperor out of the rubble, but to no avail, and right before the Emperor dies, he gives a final command to the stormtrooper: tell the Republic, and Chancellor Organa, what has happened.

The stormtrooper’s name? Finn.

And that’s how I’d begin Episode VII.

You are a treasure here on OT.com Servi! Now, I know you stole these ideas from the best 2 Expanded Universe efforts (the Heir to The Empire trilogy and KOTOR 1 and 2), but that is okay! 😃

Thanks! I really appreciate that. Yeah, I synthesized some ideas from different EU stories.

I’ve revised my Sequel Trilogy concept.

The Galactic Civil War continued for another 2 decades after Endor, becoming a long, grinding effort to drive back what was left of the Empire. At last, the receding Empire sued for peace with the Republic, with the resulting treaty favoring the Republic and ensuring the Empire could never reclaim its lost territory.

An extremist splinter faction of the Empire, calling themselves the First Order, refused to accept the treaty and launched a surprise attack into Republic space. The First Order was able to devastate the Republic world Mon Calamari before being pushed back by a joint Republic-Empire force. Emperor Roan Fel denounced the First Order as traitors, and aided the Republic in pursuing the First Order into deep space.

Going against the cautionary advice of his uncle Luke, young Jedi Knight Ben Solo joined this military effort, demanding justice for the lives lost on Mon Calamari. Ben quickly rose to the status of war hero as he became a key player in the battles along the edges of the Unknown Regions. The First Order fought with fanaticism, being pushed back planet by planet at a steep cost to both sides.

Then, out of nowhere, the First Order seemingly abandoned the war, and vanished into the Unknown Regions. Ben then spent the next few years working alongside Republic Special Ops officer Poe Dameron to explore and chart the Unknown Regions and track down the First Order fleet. Poe was eventually recalled back to Coruscant, leaving Ben to continue his search alone.

Ben finally discovers where they fled to: the old Imperial prison world of Belsavis. Strangely, the First Order doesn’t fire on his ship when he arrives, instead hailing him and telling him that he is expected at a specific location on the planet. Ben goes along with this, sensing no trap or deception, and arrives at the most heavily locked down place on the planet. A First Order officer greets him as he lands, but Ben notes that something seems off about him, as though he’s not acting of his own free will. The strange officer leads him into the deepest part of the prison, to meet with their new leader. Someone who had been kept in bodily stasis there for several decades, per Emperor Palpatine’s orders.

His name? Jedi Master Jorus C’baoth.

Palpatine considered C’baoth a potential asset due to his unusually powerful battle meditation, and instead of killing him, had him imprisoned and kept in semi-conscious stasis as a form of torture, hoping to break his will and make him serve the Empire. C’baoth never broke, and had remained in stasis all those years after Palpatine’s death. But in his confined state, his mental Force powers grew, until he was able to not just influence people, but outright destroy a person’s identity and enslave their mind to his will. When the First Order fleet arrived over Belsavis, C’baoth sensed their coming, and mentally subjugated their highest ranking members, essentially turning the faction into his own personal army.

Ben spoke with C’baoth for a long time, learning from him about the ancient history of the Jedi and Sith. The two Jedi spoke long on morality and philosophy, and C’baoth showed Ben the remains of dead planets, devastated long ago in the Great Hyperspace War. He led Ben to the same conclusion he had reached: that as long as the Jedi existed, a new Sith would inevitably reemerge, and the resulting war would devastate the galaxy, as had happened many times before. From Ben, C’baoth learns about Luke Skywalker and his new Jedi academy on Yavin IV. C’baoth condemns the new Jedi Order as folly. “It may take 50 years,” C’baoth declared. “It may take 1000 years. It does not matter. This new Order will one day breed a new Sith. It should never have been founded.”

C’baoth then made clear to Ben his plans for the galaxy. He intended to use the First Order to seize control of the Empire, and then sweep across the galaxy, forcefully unifying it under his leadership. The concept of individual freedom would be annihilated. All other Force users would be compelled to sever their own connection to the Force or be put to death. Having found Ben Solo, the heir of Darth Vader, the final piece of C’baoth’s plan was complete, and he could begin his power play.

This is where Episode VII begins. In this rewrite, rather than revering Darth Vader, Ben Solo takes up the mantle of Lord Vader as a calculated move to assert his legitimacy to the Empire. Wearing a mask and suit largely modeled after Vader’s, but modified in several ways to suit his own body, he leads a First Order surprise attack on the Imperial capital world of Bastion. Fighting his way past the Emperor’s elite guards, he hunts down and fatally wounds Emperor Fel before declaring himself publically as Lord Vader and the rightful ruler of the Empire. He then gives an impassioned speech calling for renewed war against the Republic, and the restoration of Imperial authority over the Galactic Core.

The surviving members of the Emperor’s guard are given a choice: kneel or die. Most of them submit to the new Vader, and many stormtroopers on the planet join them, while many others remain loyal to Fel. Civil war breaks out in the streets before the pro-Vader faction secures control of Bastion. Amid the chaos, a small contingent of loyalist stormtroopers break into the Imperial Palace and rescue the badly wounded Emperor. Once it becomes clear that the battle is lost, these troopers attempt to shuttle the dying Emperor off of the planet to safe territory, but their ship is severely damaged as it tries to escape, losing its hyperdrive. The ship is then pursued across space by TIE fighters before being shot down and crash landing on the planet Jakku. Every passenger is killed instantly except for Emperor Fel and a lone stormtrooper. The last trooper tries to pull the Emperor out of the rubble, but to no avail, and right before the Emperor dies, he gives a final command to the stormtrooper: tell the Republic, and Chancellor Organa, what has happened.

The stormtrooper’s name? Finn.

And that’s how I’d begin Episode VII.

Had Qui-gon Jinn lived to train Anakin, he would have had a chance.

We never hear Qui-gon say or show that he’s against the no-attachment rule. That’s just fan conjecture. I’m still not convinced that Lucas viewed the Jedi’s rules on attachment as an unhealthy thing.

First, ignore the EU. Disney has tossed aside the EU as non-canonical and the new movies will not follow any of the EU storylines. You should too. I’m not familiar with the EU (I’ve never read a SW novel or played a video game) but it seems like a wise decision not to be bound to a hodgepodge of sometimes bizarre and contradictory storylines created by different people who weren’t collaborating with each other.

I think this is short-sighted. It would be better to say “Don’t feel bound to staying consistent with the EU,” but you can still use it as source material to draw inspiration from. I’ve always liked the idea of an alternate Episode II that’s loosely based on stories from the Clone Wars Multimedia Project.

Besides that, I like the level of detail with this post. I’ve always found PT rewrites to be tricky to pull off, and this would definitely work well as a guide for it.

On a side note, it’s always bugged me that Tarkin had no real role in the prequels. He should have been an important character.

NeverarGreat said:

While yes, a desert can be striking and beautiful, there is at least a thematic reason why Tatooine is so drab in Star Wars, that being Luke’s angst at his backwater nothing planet.

I’d like to see a desert planet in Star Wars that actually is stunning. Pasaana tries to do this but it isn’t fully there.

Tatooine does serve that thematic purpose, but it also acts as a “land of mystery,” like when the droids are wandering across it. That’s something that’s been missing from Tatooine for a while, that sense of "alien"ness and mystery. And I’d argue that Tatooine wasn’t visually drab for the most part in the films.

This isn’t a landscape example, but one comparison that comes to mind is the Cantina. In the movie, it’s filed with wacky/scary aliens, there’s Benny Hill-style (but still kinda alien-sounding) music playing, and the room is lit with warm lighting. In The Mandalorian, the Cantina is coldly lit, quiet, and mostly empty.

On paper, I actually don’t mind that the shows have revisited Tatooine so much. What I do mind is how dull, drab, and washed out Tatooine looks in the shows. A desert planet should look more visually interesting, with striking sunrises and sunsets. Just because it’s a planet with long stretches of nothing doesn’t mean the nothingness has to look boring.

CarboniteSolo said:

@StarkillerAG

Wouldn’t Ben just make Luke forget using the old Jedi mind trick of amnesia?

They could definitely do that. I think it would be a copout, but if the leak is what happens, and it’s a choice between that and not doing that, then fine.

jedi_bendu said:

Servii said:

There’s nothing wrong with having healthy skepticism about something upcoming. If someone’s been disappointed with most recent Star Wars stuff, they have plenty of valid reasons to be concerned about what will come next. Especially because there are tons of ways this series could damage the Canon.

I’m guessing you didn’t watch the video, I’ve been critical of things based on the trailers and story premise myself but this is about something specific.

Yeah, I hadn’t gotten to watch the video yet. I just watched it now, and I think he’s glossing over what people’s concerns actually are and assuming the worst of people. There’s more to that leak than what he mentioned. I for one am worried that they’re going to have Reva or one of the other Inquisitors actually find Luke and come close to getting him. Which wouldn’t make sense with Luke’s ignorance in ANH. And if the only thing that narrowly saves Luke is Reva turning good at the last minute, then that puts Obi-Wan in an incompetent light.

jedi_bendu said:

https://youtu.be/YyPB9AEyMSc
Why Are People ALREADY HATING On The Obi-Wan Kenobi Series!?

A pretty infuriating but important topic covered in this video.

There’s nothing wrong with having healthy skepticism about something upcoming. If someone’s been disappointed with most recent Star Wars stuff, they have plenty of valid reasons to be concerned about what will come next. Especially because there are tons of ways this series could damage the Canon.

When we get to the droid sale scene in ANH, replace it with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpQ_xDMJJ04&t=174s

Then the movie just sort of ends.

Anakin Starkiller said:

Idk, I really like the poetry of offing one member of the trio in each film.

That’s a pretty morbid sort of poetry.

I feel bad for people getting into Star Wars for the first time. A lot of them will be confused about which movie to start with, and even if they do start with the OT, they’ll be stuck watching the Special Editions.

SparkySywer said:

Like many things with Star Wars and the ST specifically, Kylo Ren is something that could’ve been kino but didn’t pan out

Exactly. In a way, that applies to a lot of Star Wars.

Kylo Ren isn’t a well written character. He’s an excellent performance by Adam Driver, who managed to really elevate the role, but the actual character writing is really bad.

EvantheKidDS said:

I kinda figured starting this topic was a bad idea. Sorry for what I said.

It’s alright, don’t worry about it.

I don’t see the point of this thread. It paints the community with an incredibly broad brush, as though we all hate George, which we don’t. And it reeks of passive aggressiveness for no good reason, as though you think you’ve “got” us somehow.

I’ve heard all the back and forth arguments over the years about the role George played in the making of the films. And I’ve listened to people’s perspectives on what it was like when the OT and the prequels were coming out. I’ve heard all of this before, and I can safely say that no, the internet didn’t invent the idea that the prequels were bad after the fact.

The prequels, especially the first two, got a very mixed reaction when they first came out. As the novelty of the films wore off, the common sentiment about them shifted more toward the negative by the late 2000s. It was inevitable that the pendulum would shift back towards the positive eventually, especially since we now have the sequels to compare them to.

RedLetterMedia were wrong when they called George Lucas “the second luckiest man in show business.” But people who worship George as this auteur who can do no wrong are equally mistaken. George was the visionary, but the work of those around him to refine that vision and bring it to life shouldn’t be downplayed. As usual, the truth lies in the middle.

There’s nothing concrete to suggest that George chose to sell Lucasfilm because of people hating the prequels. He once made an offhanded comment that he was tired of his work being attacked, but considering his age and his desire to spend time with his family, him selling Lucasfilm was likely inevitable. I know George wanted Disney to use his sequel ideas, but by 2012, there was little to no chance he was going to make the sequels himself. And I hate to disappoint you, but George would never come back to run this franchise, no matter what they offered him. I have no doubt he’s enjoying his retirement with his family.

Also, I know it sounds like you discovered his channel recently, but I don’t recommend bothering with a guy like Anomaly Inc. I’m familiar with him, and he has some serious issues, and just overall isn’t a good person.

G&G-Fan said:

Ok but Empire Strikes Back and Revenge of the Sith are two of the most loved Star Wars movies in the community and they’re the most dark and depressing ones.

As I said, even the darkest Star Wars movies still follow heroes’ perspectives and show them acting heroically, and the movies end on a hopeful note. A Vader movie would be only darkness and angst all the way through, with the only outcome being that more Jedi would be killed by the end, and perhaps Vader would be more powerful.

Darth telly said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

I want a Ziro the Hutt movie directed by John Waters.

I want a film about Jar Jar Binks’s sith training directed by Wes Anderson.

A beautiful idea.

I’ve personally never gotten the appeal of having a Darth Vader spinoff movie about him just going around killing Jedi. Even with the most downer Star Wars movies, we’re still following the heroes, seeing them act heroically in the face of danger, and the films always end on at least a semi-hopeful note. A Vader/Jedi Purge movie would just be a bummer. The time gap between the prequels and the OT is a pretty depressing time if you’re focusing on the Jedi, and I think the later stages of the Purge are better left up to the imagination. We know what happened, and seeing it onscreen wouldn’t really tell us anything new.

I love these. I just discovered them last year, and it’s really cool that these exist, since they’re like “extended editions” of the OT.

I actually really like the added Leia POV scenes, too. Ann Sachs did a great job in the role. I wasn’t a fan of Brock Peters at first, but he really grew on me by the time I got to Empire.

canofhumdingers said:

Huh, never noticed that droid before. Very cool. Is that ROTJ? Seems there were a lot of cool and hard to spot imperial droids in the background of that film.

Jedit:
No, that’s ESB isn’t it? Even cooler!

This is from RotJ. Yeah, it’s really interesting. I’ve never seen that droid in visual dictionaries or anything.

Sorry, double post by mistake.