Hoping they put many deleted scenes and commentary on TLJ’s Blu-Ray and don’t do what they did with TFA and have to do a 2nd release that people had to double dip on.
Hamill on twitter
I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public.Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one! #HumbledHamill
Though of course he was forced by Disney to say this!
Hamill never really took back what he said about not liking what was written for his character. He said he regretted saying those things. He has always said that the movie is fantastic, he never said otherwise. What people are highlighting in videos, etc. is how he didn’t like the character of Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi, and I don’t think that’s something hard to believe. In fact that’s in several ways what I think. And he didn’t take that back here, he simply stated that he regrets voicing it in public.
Yes, Hamill was saying that he regrets making public what should have remained “private” with regards to his disagreements about how the Luke character was portrayed in TLJ.
Hamill on twitter
I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public.Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one! #HumbledHamill
Though of course he was forced by Disney to say this!
Disney probably did force Hamill to say this. I was really surprised that Hamill had been going around saying he didn’t like Johnson’s version of “Luke”. And I pretty much agree with what Hamill said. If I was in his position, I’d be giving Johnson hell too about what he was doing with Luke. I’m sure Hamill has thought about what Luke has been doing past 30 years.
Though I don’t like what Hamill had in his mind of his Luke. In that Luke had a kid who accidentally killed himself with his lightsaber. Because Hamill is really anti-gun, and so wanted to use the lightsaber to make a liberal commentary on guns.
I started thinking about Rogue One again, and I started to realize more about my problem with the Resistance in TLJ. Aside from it being the organization the protagonists work for, why do we care about them? Especially when the film tries to set up a very grey world, blurring the lines between good and evil. Yes, they’re fighting the fascist regime, but the film doesn’t really make an effort to set up the First Order as an oppressive force on the Galaxy they conquered, either.
We can argue the quality of the characters and the structure, but Rogue One showed off just what was at stake in the film. The Empire was shown as a nearly omnipresent and oppressive force, willing to level a city (and pretty much the surrounding continent) to deal with some insurgents giving them trouble and test out a new toy. We’re shown the importance of the Macguffin and why it matters that the characters obtain it.
In TLJ, we’re more told about how bad the First Order ruling the galaxy is; the only times we’re given a real reason as to believe how terrible it is is when they destroy the Hosnian System and brainwash children into being stormtroopers in TFA. Otherwise, we’re got really given a reason as to why we should give a damn who’s in charge.
What exactly is it that the First Order is doing? Like, what’s their purpose? Maybe they talked about it. But from watching the movies, I never really understood what their purpose was or why they took over the roll of the defeated Empire.
Why is that scene a sticking point at all though? A Jedi can do all kinds of wacky things, and this falls under ‘knowledge and defence’ last time I checked. Jumping out of a trap or grabbing an object is fine but woah holding your breath and reaching for the nearest airlock is craazy. The only dumb part is that she didn’t pull inside the other bridge officers and seal the hole behind them.
I didn’t like the Leia surviving in space and then floating back to the ship. It’s ridiculous like if a force user could fly. I liked how Luke had to really struggled just to use the force in the OT. I think it’s best if the force is limited in what you can do with it as otherwise it takes the “magic” away. But I do think there should be beginner, intermediate, and master levels of force users.
In Empire, I never did like the fast high force jump that Luke does when Vader to trying to trap him in that pit they used to freeze Han Solo. And then Luke jumps up really super high. I never did like that Luke could do that. But luckily Vader has a really good line of “Impressive, most impressive” and so makes that scene not look so hokey.
Han probably never stopped modifying the ship over the decades.
But does anyone know when after ROTJ that the Millennium Falcon get’s stolen from Han?
Projected 68% percent drop in movie ticket sales this weekend; that is Batman vs Superman territory. TFA dropped 39% from its first weekend to its second. We can speculate over the ‘real’ review numbers, but box office numbers will generally indicate how the movie going public really feels about a movie; case in point, The Justice League which will most likely finish its box office run with less than $700 million worldwide.
Most hardcore fans have seen the film, and Christmas being on a Monday this year means one last full weekend of shopping madness. Also, this is the third SW flick we’ve had since 2015. Arguably there was a lot of pent up demand when TFA came out.
I’m old enough to remember when the holiday season was a terrible time to open a non holiday film/non kid’s movie.
At least the Jumanji remake didn’t beat it. That would have been embarrassing. 😉
When I heard that Disney planned to do a new Star Wars movie every year a long while back. I was doubtful of that as I figure there would be some fatigue set in, and they’d have to keep the quality up real high to make it work. The only thing I can see that might make up the difference is the toys and licensing merchandise that might make it worth it even if the box office dips.
We see that with the bad performance of Justice League how that almost ended that franchise. But looks like they are going to try and do a soft-reboot via Flashpoint instead of doing a hard reboot that many people think should be done.
I bet that the Solo movie does less at the box office than Rogue One. Though it may do the same because it has Solo and Chewie to help carry the movie vs. a bunch of unknown characters in Rogue One.
It’ll be interesting to see members’ views after Episode IX is released and we’ve all had time to take in the Sequel Trilogy as a whole.
As of right now, a lot of the differing and passionate opinions on here and throughout the various threads… may well change upon completion and reflection of seeing everything in the ST tied together - as a trilogy in itself, and as part of the whole saga overall.
Two down, one to go… 😃
That’s an interesting question indeed. Aside from the ST, I think it’s also interesting to consider how the ST will connect to the rest of the saga. It is meant to be part of a nine part saga afterall. I’m a bit skeptical, but TLJ does make it impossible for Abrams to create ROTJ 2.0, so it may turn out to be the greatest setup in the history of Star Wars.
For a while, we were told that Johnson would also be writing and directing Episode 9. But recently we learned that instead, JJ was coming back for 9. Does anyone know what happened there? I’m wondering if Lucasfilm decided they didn’t like the direction that Johnson took the ST in, and decided to bring JJ back to retcon it?
If people are complaining that TFA was too safe - and now complaining that it is too different - then that is no comment on the quality (good or bad etc) of the film itself. These is no inference in their statements that ‘different is automatically good’ at all.
I suppose to a degree, although criticizing a film for being too safe, does imply it would have been better, if it was less safe. Being safe is percieved as a weakness of the film, meaning it would be stronger without that weakness. Since, TLJ is percieved as not being safe, that would imply it does not have this weakness, even of it may have a host of other weaknesses. I think it goes a bit far to suggest, that a film being too similar or too different isn’t in some way meant to reflect of the quality of the film in question.
I don’t view TFA as “playing it too safe”. I view it as badly directed and edited movie with a really bad story and with some bad acting. But I also view it as a rip-off of A New Hope. I don’t view that as being too safe, but just a rip-off. If you go look at the prequels, none of those movies are “rip-offs” of the OT.
I’m betting if Lucas was still in charge of the ST, then we wouldn’t be getting any rip-off or soft-reboots of the earlier movies.
I think some of the criticism that’s been directed at TLJ should be directed at TFA instead. TFA set up its sequels with having to answer so many questions that should’ve been answered by TFA itself. It worked as a first part in a two parter, and it should’ve been a standalone film to set things up, like Star Wars and even The Phantom Menace were.
One example is Snoke and the First Order. Why not just tell us how he rose to power and how the First Order came to be in TFA? Why leave it to the other movies? But no, screw it. TFA shouldn’t have left a mystery box for the other movies to fill.I think the biggest problem is the lack of an overarching set of themes for the ST. It’s obvious these films were created by two different artists with very different agendas. Additionally TLJ 's story is a mishmash of OT story threads and elements, driven by the desire to defy all expectations, rather than to tell it’s own story independent of expectations.
Yes, seems like TLJ was done the way it was done by Rian to just throw away the questions/answers to TFA just to frustrate all the fan theories past 2 years.
Problem is in 5-10 years, these movies will have to stand on their own. No one will care if TLJ was done in a way to frustrate all the TFA/ST theories out there.
I do hope JJ retcons a lot of what Rian threw away. i.e. who Rey’s parents are. Looks like Rian has only confirmed that Kylo believes what he saw. But that Rian wouldn’t confirm that what Kylo saw was what/who Rey’s parents really are/were. So looks like that will be left up to JJ to deal with, or just ignore and let what Rian answered stand.
I think some of the criticism that’s been directed at TLJ should be directed at TFA instead. TFA set up its sequels with having to answer so many questions that should’ve been answered by TFA itself. It worked as a first part in a two parter, and it should’ve been a standalone film to set things up, like Star Wars and even The Phantom Menace were.
One example is Snoke and the First Order. Why not just tell us how he rose to power and how the First Order came to be in TFA? Why leave it to the other movies? But no, screw it. TFA shouldn’t have left a mystery box for the other movies to fill.
This is a good reason why if say this ST was around the new Jedi Temple with Luke training new Jedi. Then looking at that compared to ROTJ, we wouldn’t need an explanation with how the Jedi Temple was created, etc.
Where as, based on what we saw in ROTJ, we really need explanation for how the First Order, Snoke, and the new Storm Troopers came about.
Kylo had a major scene with Han in TFA. As for Leia, I’m giving them a pass because no one expected Carrie Fisher to pass away and they made plans for IX to be her focus like TFA was for Han and TLJ was for Luke.
Carry passing away was a terrible thing. And I don’t want to take that away, but we have to deal with reality now. And I’m actually glad that Leia isn’t going to be in IX as I don’t think Carry could act anymore. Plus she didn’t look like an old lady Leia that I would have wanted to see. I think Carry’s stuff in the ST is just one of the worst things about them.
Aside from hugging for a few seconds during Yub Nub, there are no other scenes with Luke and Leia together between this one and when Luke goes off to hide and die on a remote planet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDYX_PgorRY
That’s a really wide gulf story-wise with no explanation except gee I’m a bad teacher and I tried to kill one of my students and then he burned down my temple.
😦
Did they ever say how long Luke had been hiding for?
After TFA, I had thought that Luke might have been on that planet for like a couple of decades. But after seeing TLJ with Luke trying to kill an “older” looking Kylo. I’m thinking he might have just been hiding for a couple of years.
Another nitpicky thing: why was Luke alive? If he wanted to die, honestly, why didn’t he just kill himself? Like, really, it took him a long while to decide that he should do something worthwhile.
“I came here to die” well just jump from the cliff buddy you’ll be dead in 5 sec!! It would have been the easiest way for the Jedi to end and etc. (and this is actually a very serious matter)That question has been on my mind as well, but I was surprised to see no one bring it up until now. He came there to die… and yet he’s busy trying to… survive? Definitely lost on me.
I think this is a good example of why I think it probably would have been best to have Lucas overseeing the new trilogy while others wrote and directed them. Kind of like with the OT. Because Lucas could oversee the new trilogy to hopefully keep there from being huge gaping plot holes. With Disney, they have several people involved with overseeing the direction instead of there being one person in charge to keep everyone going in the same direction.
I don’t remember people discussing huge plot holes with the OT. It all seemed to fit together pretty good.
I haven’t seen TLJ and won’t, and the same will hold true for the Han Solo movie and Ep. IX. People are free to doubt my commitment if they so wish; the world will go on regardless.
What made you avoid this film? After seeing TFA? After the trailer for TLJ? The reviews?
Reviews and general spoilers. Luke is my favourite SW character, and honestly his characterization in ROTJ – the promise that he would go on to recreate the Jedi – is essentially the only major thing I liked from that film. It’s bad enough that TFA introduced the concept that Luke’s nascent Jedi Order was eradicated by his own nephew, but I could’ve lived with it if Luke kept his head up and kept on truckin’. Instead he runs off to hide and wallow in self pity while the galaxy deteriorates in his absence. To me that is complete and utter character assassination; I refuse to dignify the movie’s existence by watching it.
I think the new trilogy should have been it’s own thing and been around the new Jedi Temple or something. With Luke been training new Jedi, and then a new Sith comes out of hiding and turns one of his students. I don’t know, but something like that maybe. i.e. no Star Destroyers and no Storm Troopers as that was destroyed in/around ROTJ. And also because not having those things would make the ST it’s own separate thing kind of like with the prequels.
One of my main issues with TLJ is Rey’s character. She doesn’t actually go through any training, nor does the movie focus on her personal journey / inner struggles. Most of her time she spends just trying to get through to Luke and Kylo. Thus we are left at the end with a pretty bland protagonist heading in to the THIRD MOVIE, which is a shame because it feels like such a wasted opportunity for what could have been a really cool character.
Abrams didn’t do much better with her in TFA, but the first 10 minutes or so where she is introduced on Jakku - I thought that was a great introduction for the character. In fact, for me that’s really the only section in any of the Disney SW movies that feels like “Star Wars.” It features really solid, visual storytelling and we learn a lot about Rey in just a few short minutes. (John Williams’ theme here adds a lot as well).
Don’t get me wrong - I like that TLJ tried to return the Force to its roots as just an energy field used by space-Yogis. But it’s too late because Rey exhibits exactly the kind of exaggerated powers implied by ROTJ and the prequels - inherited abilities that belong to a chosen few even in the complete absence of Jedi intervention. The best defence for her Mary Sue-ness in TFA was post-ROTJ logic - you don’t have to live in space-Tibet and meditate for 6 months to hone these powers because you can automatically have a genetic predisposition.
Which is why everyone thought she was a ‘Kenobi’ or a ‘Skywalker’ or even a ‘Palpatine’. It’s annoying (to a fan like me who hates this notion of inherited Jedi-ness) but it follows logically from what’s been established.
But Rey gets to have her cake and eat it too, because she’s a nobody. She’s an everyman/woman like Luke was in ANH with the Force as a ‘mere’ energy field, but she has prequel-level powers. This in turn trivialises the Force because, if it’s no longer genetic, then it simply must be infinitely more accessible than the first films implied.
Conclusion? TLJ is silly, but ROTJ screwed things up in the first place!
There’s nothing in ROTJ that implies “exaggerated” abilities without having to train. The problems started in TFA. She didn’t have to be that powerful, but I think they just didn’t have time to get the script ready, and the end result feels like a rough draft.
Lawrence Kasdan said when they took over writing duties from Michael Arndt, that they basically “started from scratch.” That was in November of 2013, just a few short months before filming. They also said they had trouble figuring out Luke’s role in the movie as Rey’s mentor, as he was originally supposed to be, so they just decided to stick him on an island and be the mcguffin.
As a result of that decision, Rian then had to figure out the whole Luke-Hermit angle. So instead of the movie focusing on Rey’s character, she becomes more of a side character, helping to bring Luke back to the force.
I was reading something recently that Lucas originally had Luke secluded on that planet like a hermit. And then Rey i.e. “Kira” would train under Luke during the first movie. Don’t know what else Lucas had planned out. But then after Disney bought it, they decided to have Han Solo be the mentor to “Rey” in the first movie. Then have Luke train her during the 2nd movie.
TavorX said:
What I DO have an issue with is that Rey has very little conflict character wise. Her fast Jedi leveling-up would be fine if she had stronger inner conflict.Agreed.
One of my main issues with TLJ is Rey’s character. She doesn’t actually go through any training, nor does the movie focus on her personal journey / inner struggles. Most of her time she spends just trying to get through to Luke and Kylo. Thus we are left at the end with a pretty bland protagonist heading in to the THIRD MOVIE, which is a shame because it feels like such a wasted opportunity for what could have been a really cool character.Abrams didn’t do much better with her in TFA, but the first 10 minutes or so where she is introduced on Jakku - I thought that was a great introduction for the character. In fact, for me that’s really the only section in any of the Disney SW movies that feels like “Star Wars.” It features really solid, visual storytelling and we learn a lot about Rey in just a few short minutes. (John Williams’ theme here adds a lot as well).
There’s a screenwriting guru who says this is the generic bad female script example. Female protagonist spends 120 pages trying to solve everyone else’s problems. Generic bad male script example is the spy or action type where everyone is double crossing or triple crossing each other and trying to kill each other. There’s that in TLJ too.
Just a terrible script. I wonder who mostly wrote or signed off on it?
I still can’t believe that Lawrence Kasdan was involved in helping write TFA. He did such a great job with Indiana Jones and Empire and Jedi of the OT. I was really excited that he was involved in TFA. But what we got was crap. I’m hoping he did a real good job on the Solo movie. I also hope in the extras on the Solo Blu-Ray that they show and discuss what was the problem with the original directors. I believe I read that Kasdan didn’t like what he was seeing with I’m guessing the dailies or something.
My favorite line in the movie:
Luke: “This is not going to go the way you think.”
Haven’t had time to listen to his review yet. But where is Kevin on the TFA and TLJ?
He loves it! But I think Kevin Smith will always like Star Wars. He has some personal thoghts of things that he would do differently (like pitting Luke actually on Crait) or that did not work for him (Superman Leia), yet he cries at various times and says he has enjoyed the film very much in every sense. I trust him, but I know he will always have the “vision of the heart” when it comes to Star Wars, which is not entirely a bad thing.
I could be wrong. But I seem to recall from years and years of watching Kevin Smith videos that he used to be a prequel defender? And then years later realized they were crap movies?
I think it’ll be interesting to see where Kevin Smith is 5-10 years down the road on these Sequels.
For me these Sequels I don’t like and think they take away from the OT. i.e. won’t be able to get them out of my head when I watch the OT. But I’m hoping at least a few years after Episode 9 is done that I’ll be able to put 7-9 in a “box” and be able to ignore them when watching the OT. As that’s what I have to do with the prequels when watching the OT.
I’ve yet to download the Harmy despecialized OT movies. But I know it’ll take a while for me say to get Vader’s “Nooooo” out of my head when watching ROTJ. It’s kind of burned in there now. Though I actually didn’t mind Lucas removing Vader/Anakin’s bushy eyebrows though in ROTJ. It actually makes sense because he’s a burn victim with scars and things that made him bald.
Just wanted to share Kevin Smith thoughts on TLJ:
Haven’t had time to listen to his review yet. But where is Kevin on the TFA and TLJ?
One of the issues I have with the new movies is the constant over-explanation of everything. Star Wars has never been subtle, but did we really need to see people with monocles and tuxedos on understand that these were rich people?
TLJ was a movie-equivalent of a Thomas Kinkade painting.
It’s an exclusive casino. What are they supposed to wear? Even Vegas has places they won’t let you in without a suit.
You never see anybody in street clothes in a casino in a 007 movie. 😉
The thing is Star Wars is in a galaxy far far away and in the distant past. So I’d prefer it if they kept our modern world out of Star Wars. ie. tuxedos, etc.
It’s like if Luke was running around wearing a t-shirt and jeans.
😉
They better be bell bottoms!
One of the issues I have with the new movies is the constant over-explanation of everything. Star Wars has never been subtle, but did we really need to see people with monocles and tuxedos on understand that these were rich people?
TLJ was a movie-equivalent of a Thomas Kinkade painting.
It’s an exclusive casino. What are they supposed to wear? Even Vegas has places they won’t let you in without a suit.
You never see anybody in street clothes in a casino in a 007 movie. 😉
The thing is Star Wars is in a galaxy far far away and in the distant past. So I’d prefer it if they kept our modern world out of Star Wars. ie. tuxedos, etc.
It’s like if Luke was running around wearing a t-shirt and jeans.
If he was that unhappy he could have threatened to walk if changes weren’t made. It’s not like they could replace him.
And that’s hardly blasting the director.
I doubt that Mark could have walked due to contractual reasons. I also read somewhere that in Rian’s contract to do TLJ, that he had final say in the writing of the movie.
I could almost guarantee that if TLJ’s story beats exactly matched expectations of what people were speculating, many people would have accused the film of being predictable and boring.
I would have settled for a competently told story, and one that spent less time on pointless sub-plots, useless characters, & cartoony gags, and more focus on the critical themes surrounding our hero’s struggles and growth as she takes the next step of her journey.
Because there never were any cartoony gags in the OOT.
Nope, not even close to the extent of the gags that were placed throughout TLJ. The only thing in the OOT that feels like a “gag” is the Tarzan yell in ROTJ, which fortunately is brief and not in-your-face, like the TLJ stuff.
Anyway, the gags are just one aspect of what’s wrong with the movie.
Forgetting Wicket hitting himself in the head with his own sling?
Cartoon physics when Paploo steals the speeder bike?
The slapstick only got worse in the SE’s. The droid in Mos Eisely hitting the other droid for example. Or the Jawas falling off the Ronto.
I thought it fashionable to hate on ROTJ, particularly because Ewoks. Has that changed?
ROTJ is my favorite Star Wars film. It might be “fashionable”, but in that haters-gonna-hate sort of way that gets tiring.
ROTJ is my favorite too. I recognize some flaws that were routinely identified on this forum when I was last here a couple years ago. On some points I disagreed with the naysayers.
Actually, I liked the Ewoks back in the 80’s and still do. I remember playing with that Ewoks village toy at daycare. I know some don’t like the Ewoks, but I thought they were fine. But I can understand why some don’t like them. And I know some don’t like them because they helped defeat the Storm Troopers with their primitive weapons.
Though I do think ROTJ is kind of a weak movie. Kind of like the 3rd Back to the Future movie. I think the Emperors throne room scenes really saves that movie. Actually those scenes are my favorite in all of the Star Wars movies.
I’d pay money to see just one detractor of this film demand a refund from the theater they saw it in and post proof of it.
The only reason I’ve demanded a refund from the theater was because someone had a screaming baby in there with them to watch a movie and I didn’t feel like listening to the baby scream the whole movie. I’d then tell them to please ban babies from the theater. This has happened several times actually.
