Ronster

I Think muddy has a good point but it's clearly the same impact shown twice which is what stops it feeling like a different probe crashing.

And although this is a bit of a radical idea i don't feel it is confusing
when you watch the movie casino you don't need to see a picture of the planet eartht to know that is set on earth. So you would simply be fading through two very different landscapes. Although as Tim said the viewer may struggle to interpret the shift between planets the reveal of Hoth would come a lot later better conveying the rebels hiding and the empire not knowing where they are. as it is now it feels like they find them straight off the bat and does little to convey that they really "don't know" a bit forced if you like.

What I am trying to say is that revealing the external view of the planet the rebels are hiding on at the start does not help hold any mystery from the viewer of the films stand point and I think it does not work all that well in allowing the viewer to partake in the discovery of the secret base as events unfold.

Angway it is only an edit idea.

Empire strikes back.

Should the probe droid hit another planet entirely? And then we get to see Luke spot the probe that lands on Hoth of which he thinks is a meteroite.

Although I liked an edit by Davnes who is an active member here on OT.com I felt that doing it the way that Davnes did it (Davnes had one probe only and Luke see's it land but we see the pre cursor of it entering the atmosphere) messes with the music so I personally would opt for another planet and then cut to luke riding taun taun across the icy plains of Hoth.


I did these mock ups a while back so here is a rough idea of what I had in mind

Would it make the universe feel bigger? Is it better to not see the same probe crash twice? Does it feel a bit too lucky and should we see some of the failed search rather than joining the empires search straight to success and experience it twice? was it like this because of Budget restraints? I hope this sparlks a bit of discussion...

I would really like tk be one of the testers and give you an honest feedback but i don't have the time at the moment due to work and being flat out.

I doubt you will struggle to find people to test it but I may find the time to do this next week if that is suitable for you and there is no rush depending on how things pan out I will PM you

I had a quick look through the 2004 DVD menu's for the special edition again yesterday and I was on the Hoth themed Menu for the chapter selection which is set in the Wampa's Lair.

Now if you select an new set of chapters the screen scrolls across with a Wampa in the foreground and then it struck me. Would that small animation of the Wampa be good enough for the brief glimpse like in the original film. What is good about it is that in the Menu Wampa it is a foreground object but if it was used to recreate the original scene it would be a background object behind ice pillars.

Anyway I am only saying this to help cut down workload as then there would only be one shot left to fix for the Wampa if this piece of footage was "Good Enough"???

It certainly moves a lot better than in the original although it would need slowing down so I will leave that there as a potential good spot and if it helps then great if not no problems just trying to help it get there quicker. Not that you need my help.

Watched Mean Streets last night.

I have not seen it before and had it on the shelf for about a year. Thoroughly enjoyed it and I'll say if you have not seen it go get it and watch it. Great soundtrack and great acting.

Well worth a watch if you like human stories.

^ Yeah that trailer is really good I also really like the vivaldi trailer for Empire Strikes Back also. At the end of the Vivaldi teaser there is this image of Vader against the star field like he is looking out the window but it's like we are seeing his reflection off of glass or something. And as the image fades there is this really cool sort of reverb added to his final breath before the trailer ends.

I think that is such an iconic image that ever since I first saw it, it has stuck with me and also kinda feels a bit scary or spooky. I would love to see this somehow make it in to ESB:R on one of the shots where Vader is looking out the window as a homage to the trailer and the artful way that this shot was put together. I just think it is perhaps one of the best depictions of Vader, and because he is sort of transparent it makes him sort of etherial but also dark and evil shrouded in the shadow and blackness of space.

There are some really nice shots in the ESB:R trailer of which you can see nowhere else.

Also am I right in saying that the music at the very start of the ESB:R Trailer although scored by John Williams was never in the movie?

No Arguments here J or Brash, I have always seen it that way that Vader was changing the method and stakes of an already existing Bounty so I am just questionable as you are coming from the way I have always seen it.

One thing that is one of the things that makes these movies quite special is how people can see things in different ways. Let's celebrate that and not argue about it :)

I am not discounting how you see it just because it's different and If I am seeing it wrong from your perspective then just leave me alone in that little Bubble then. No Issues here at all If you don't see it the same as I do I certainly don't feel heated about it.

Tobar said:

Ronster said:

Jaitea said:

.......wait a second Ronster,.....don't forget Boba is working for Jabba also,.....he wouldn't consider shooting at the Falcon......one his few lines in the film...."What if he doesn't survive, he's worth a lot to me"

J

 I thought Han already had a death warrant out on him and Vaders new Bounty was in conflict with the Jabba Bounty?

 Jabba wanted him alive, hence Boba's line. Vader only wants to use Han and Leia to draw out Luke. He's willing to give up Han to Boba because he knows as long as he has Leia Luke will eventually come for her.

Well they should have got Tommy Lee Jones involved sooner to go after him then :)



No but seriously I think he must have been wanted dead or alive as Han also says "If I don't Pay off Jabba the Hutt I am a dead man" Boba line which Jaita has quite rightly pointed out could possibly mean that he was worth more Bounty alive than dead. I'm not changing my perspective as I prefer the darker gritty realism of my take it makes it better for me to see it this way. or if he does not pay up "Capture" or "Kill Him" which is evident in Greedo's scene. Anyway it matters not Dead or Alive Jabba does not seem to care much for others lives either. Otherwise it's a silly plot point if everyone want's him only captured alive, The dialogue is contradicting and it makes little sense.

Wait a minute.. I think that Boba fett line about "What if he does not survive..." If Boba cannot present Jabba with either an alive or normally dead version of Han he would struggle politically to claim the bounty. If Han dies in the Carbon freeze chamber it would be not through his doing and would be unable to claim any reward for this Bounty the only way he could get a bounty from Han would be dependent on him surviving the process and being allowed to take him incarcerated.

Jaitea said:

.......wait a second Ronster,.....don't forget Boba is working for Jabba also,.....he wouldn't consider shooting at the Falcon......one his few lines in the film...."What if he doesn't survive, he's worth a lot to me"

J

 I thought Han already had a death warrant out on him and Vaders new Bounty was in conflict with the Jabba Bounty?

Perhaps that is why Vader say "I want them Alive" as he is more than likely had to offer a higher Bounty than Jabba to get what he want's knowing full well if trying to catch them alive was to go wrong the bounty hunters would get paid anyway on the death warrant. So like I said I don't think bounty hunters / assassins / killers have a clean cut job as what may happen can be unpredictable they also have to defend themselves

But the orders Vader gives suggests Boba had previously been given orders not to kill his bounties and did. So he did not follow orders and had to be warned specifically not to disintegrate this particular bounty and was very clearly like I let you off the last time you did that.

But if you like to think of Boba fett as someone who just flies around the galaxy following orders and that bounty hunter assassinations are as clean cut as what you make them out to be then ok. It does not mean I think it's got anything to do with the idea I had anymore it's got more to do with how people percieve an assassin / killer and how taking a target alive is not quite that simple especially if you are spotted following your target and that target is a much more powerful ship. I wanted to put how I see it in context not about the small idea. Perhaps it's better in the original that the guns are aimed from the get go. But we can't see them very well Is the main point weather they should move to aim or not forget about it. we can't see the guns in a defined manner is what I am saying. I wanted to make them more noticeable. It's a dangerous game bounty hunting is it not.

Just to get people going some more I'm going to throw in the double whammy of moving parts on ships. So I'm not sure if it's a feature supported by the falcon as we never see it move but I always wanted to see it move. When the falcon is clamped to the back of the star destroyer in this sequence what if it's dish was moving suggesting the sensor jamming capabilities of the falcon. On the close up shot. That would explain how it was hidden too but I don't know if it can actually rotate or even move.

I can see your point but I was thinking of it more in terms of like you said he has it all planned out, but as he takes aim he stops himself from his run of the mill compulsiveness because of what he was told not to do "I want them alive"

so I was trying to convey that.

as it is in the original it just looks like he is just following them without any thought of blowing them up.

I had another Idea today and I thought I would share it here for fun and not expecting anything to come of it either. But I will say I think it's a good idea and I am not trying to delay The release of the edit at all but here goes.

Ok I watched the sequence of Boba Fett chasing the falcon through the junk and I thought about when Slave 1 passes close by the camera as in the shot above. What if it's guns rotated from pointed downward to forward as if he was contemplating destroying the falcon at this time but he did not because Vader told him "No disintergrations" if you look at the original shot it's actually very hard to make out the guns on the ship. So as a simple addition to this shot was to see a 2D animation of very clearly defined guns on Slave 1 rotating to aim (with the correct perspective added to match the model)

And It's no biggie but it's a small touch that says quite a lot rather than a simple pursuit through a junk field.

As the hyperspace jump has been cancelled that he makes in the version on facebook is there a chance that you will keep the timimg the way It is but Keep a first time viewer guessing if he stops/halts in the junk cutting off pursuit?

I posted here a while ago about The making of The Keep.

Well I know it's not about the keep film rips or video as such but If you like this film then the documentary now appears to be entering it's final stages with the promotional website launching on 1st August.

https://www.facebook.com/wwiifairytale

I am really looking forward to this, as there really is very little info on this mysterious yet visually striking film.

So that's a quick heads up to any fan's of the Keep.

[quote=brimforge]

 some of your ideas are really hard to fit in, but this sums it up:
prologe of different scenes...

I Have el topo sitting on the shelf still have not managed to put it kn yet. Heard it's good though.

Lynchian ewoks :) i will leave it to yours and my imagination. they would be very weird though much more weird yes.

If this has both vehicle and fps combat i will get this. And i don't play much games anymore.

I loved the rougue squadron series and i liked battlefront too just a lot of fun and fast paced action and had good atmosphere too.

@.mac mithrandir who did the original mock up added the window to the AT-AT I edited it and took it away so it is more like the original. I think sometimes less is more. The front face is badly lit under the cockpit window but the mountains that mithrandir added give the shot more depth and perspective. So if you look at the original shot the lighting is the main culprit of making that shot seem weird I think.

And I am also very Happy with what we have seen so far with the views of shield generator and AT-AT Binoculars which is definitely unfinished anyway that was not a full render. I am simply trying to find out how they got that effect in the film originally I could be wrong but I think it was filmed off of either a monitor or projection screen with my feelings leaning more towards CRT MONITOR. I think it could be worth a try to see what it comes out like but It all depends on weather Ady wants that dirty analogue look or more of a cleaner digital look for those view screen shots. To say they look too good can be critisicsm I suppose.

I think possibly a VGA monitor would be a good choice as they go brighter than a TV as it's filming light particles in a dark room and not actual footage. An old VGA CRT monitor would be my first choice of filming off of it. The other thing to think about is what 60HZ or 75HZ and camera shutter speed what ever it likes best. And if recoreded and played from VHS you could convert from component to VGA or RGBHV to VGA depending on what the VHS out puts are or even composite to s-video. Or repature from VHS and / or pump straight out the PC on VGA. Yes I know it's a mad idea.

I was saying about hz and shutter speed well in the original shield generator shot they seem to have altered the shutter speed of the camera on the fly to allow the refresh scan lines to appear and change when filming off of the monitor but it was a purposeful shift to allow that effect to occur.In the binoculars shot they also do this but there is something else at play and I am not sure if it is a damaged tape or some of it it is or if someone at one pulls out a signal cable briefly while filming it right at the start or was tuning away from an radio signal or aerial cable signal also tracking might have been altered during the Binoculars shot. Just realised I may have this process back to front I think it was first filmed off the monitor then later degraded not degraded and then filmed that is very important. and I am not sure but in the binocular shot I think the camera shuts it's iris momentarily also.

Something I have thought about for a while in the new shot of the binoculars looking at the AT-AT and is also evident in veers view screen of the new shield generator and the probe droid transmission also perhaps. The image looks too sharp and needs a lot of softening and blurring.

Here is the original shot.

So I was thinking well the shot has to be made with all the detail that needs to be there so you have not done anything wrong at all. But I was trying to think of a way to emulate the same effect that we get in the film so heres the idea.

Record the shot to a VHS Tape and if it's not soft enough then record it again either from VHS to VHS or record on the same piece of tape until it degrades. Then re-capture the footage back digitally from the degraded source.

I know this may sound a bit ridiculous but I think it could achieve a really interesting retro effect for veers viewscreen and the binoculars shot. Obviously the text and readouts are being added afterwards digitally and would not need to go through this process if attempted this way. But I thought I would say this idea of trying to physically degrade these shots imparticular rather than try to do it digitally. perhaps even going as far as to not ad interference digitally but to partially ruin the tape by physical smudging also. I said it was off the wall did I not :) or just soften and add interference digitally in post recapture.

My question about this idea is would it work to achieve the similar effect in the shots that are in the original films?

There would obviously be loss of resolution but that is perhaps what it needs? And there is the case of also perhaps setting it up in a different aspect ratio to try to retain more resolution if needed being in 720p. But I thought I would share this one and wondered if it would work?

Was the original shots filmed off of a crt monitor? and is perhaps a better way of getting that degradation rather than recapturing as then you will effectively be bouncing the resolution down but refilming it off a monitor in HD.

Whilst talking about Hoth I wanted to regurgitate a mock up from Mithradir from way back as many people have brought up about this shot and not liking it and I have to agree there is something not right with it and Mithradir's take on it I thought was really good he also mention about making the glass more visible and perhaps silhouettes inside. The cockpit glass is completely incorrect you can compare the grainy view from the binoculars and this and see the silhouettes in the binoculars shot and nothing on the high detail close up..

One thing for sure it is badly lit and under the cockpit ridge. so I edited perhaps something like this?

Tried to edit lukes rescue in Empire strikes back to retain the shuttle flying to the executor. It's a rough mock up and the music needs smoothing out where I made the cut or perhaps extending the final note after bring my shuttle into luke hanging of the bottom of cloud city.

http://www.mediafire.com/watch/kebue2aobu39s2r/shuttle_edit_V2.wmv

I really don't like any of the special editions footage in this section apart from this shot of the shuttle flying to the executor. I see it as like a game of chess and the pieces moving around the board so I wanted to retain this scene. I am trying to find the marriage between the original and the special edition with this but I will admit that it needs work but I shared it because I wanted to share the idea of a different way of looking at it. This goes a bit of a way to suggesting a passage of time between the falcon flying off and returning to cloud city so let us know what you think of the general idea and re-arrangement. It's my first attempt at trying to find a middle ground between special edition and the original for this scene.

And yes I would also be thinking of adding tie fighters destroying cloud cars once the gap was established and the break in the footage was smooth. I would use the celebration footage from ROTJ to show a cloud car being taken down by a tie fighter in this section also coming before the shuttle flying towrds the executor but I don't have the skills for that. Why? because tie fighters don't feel dangerous in Empire Strikes back so if we saw them blowing up a cloud car we could associate them with a threat to the falcon finally. It would also add a further passage of time between the falcon turning back and returning. I think they fly away from cloud city for like 3 minutes and are back in 10 seconds.

There is also the possibility of Vader walking to the shuttle being retained with the line "Bring My Shuttle" although I am not so bothered about it being cut but I am trying to figure out a restructuring of the sequence that helps ease the passage of time of the falcon making it's way back in longer than 10 seconds. There is also the missing scene that nags me about Vader actually spotting the falcon in the distance returning to cloud city as per the script so this all could be possible if a break in the score was established after Luke is left hanging in the blustering wind. In conclusion I feel that an expansion at this point would add a lot to making the passage of time all the more plausible of the falcon returning but as you can see I am only an ideas man and lack the proper skills to pull it off 100% but I think I found a good premise on a new structure for rescuing luke and making the falcons trip back a little more easy to swallow. Even showing shots of the falcon racing through the skies of Bespin back to cloud city would be a good choice of intercutting but this would need music of which there currently is none.

Yes the generator can be seen from the trenches and you have summed up my thoughts perfectly. But it depends on how many trenches there are.... Some trench shots show the generator far off to the rebel troops left on a arge expanse of ice with a cliff face to the rear or left side.

So you got it make the shield generator look heavily defended but the mountains are wrong if that was done i guess so it's not as easy an idea as i thought initially. But we know that it's all a bit random shots in the film so perhaps this is a good idea in one way perhaps bad in others

I had an idea today about an extra shot for the new shield generator model that has been made and it came about because of this shot what the probe droid see's and transmits.

So I noticed that the turret is pictured on the right as protection for the shield generator. This is perhaps a detail that should be taken note of for all other shots containing the shield generator. But it gave me an idea to modiffy this shot.

I'm not sure about this idea of putting the shield generator there but I think it really set's the scene up for what they are trying to protect from the empire destroying and it's a way of adding more depth in an already great shot that has been already tweaked ever so well. But if the shield generator was also added it may go beyond what it already is at the moment and make it even more of an iconic moment.

The reason I'm not sure about the idea is because my awareness of how the battlefield is plotted is a mess because the movie is a mess in terms of where the shield generator is so I am not sure if it would even be correct that they would fly over this into battle. The terrain appears inconsistent throughout the shield generator views from probe droid to battle and eventual destruction so that's also something that needs looking at for the generator shots in terms of continuity also I guess.

Did the echo base hanger get finished?

Not asking for media but this miniature i was impressed with what I saw of it. Just wondering if it was finished and filmed?

Happy for some stuff to remain as a surprise is what i am saying.

It's like everyone got hammered on the bridge kirk looks like he is vomiting on sulus chair.

People may need to be reminded how bad the one in ESB is as you have all but one person throwing themselves about. This one guy just stood there looking at the others thinking well I'm not doing that it's stupid. Thank's for getting rid of the party pooper

I am not sure about the cutting out the torture droid but It's ok. You can tell it's been edited.

The other one is really good and smooth edit and you would never know the difference.

Something I thought about a couple of months ago was why in Empire Strikes Back did we never get treated to the Amazing costume and interior of a Tie Fighter?

Yeah I know we got the AT-AT pilots which were modified from these dudes but still I don't think these guys cannot be beat. Even better than Darth Vader in terms of design perhaps. Any chance of squeezing a shot of one of these dudes in somewhere (not asteroid chase I know this is out of the question here)?

My thoughts are that if you watched Empire as your first star wars experience you would be wondering who was in the tie fighter craft. So the film takes it for granted that you saw the first one which is reasonable as most people have. But that is my point and I think it's something that is sorely missed in Empire Strikes Back.

But this is something that has bugged me for a while they are in Jedi thank goodness it's only Empire where we don't see them. Anyway it's a thought I have had for a while and not sure there is the scope for one to appear but I will just say that I miss these pilots.