Ronster

"The Vanishing"

Original French / dutch version. not sure if I enjoyed as much as the American remake but I think it explored the motivations of the killer more. It's a good story none the less.

"Exit through the gift shop"

Enjoyed this Documentary a lot, I would say this is a great educational and feel good documentary about street art and was not exactly what I thought it was going to be also. Nice soundtrack to boot.

There is also all this talk about "Ooohh but fox have the distrubution rights" that could be a problem.

It could be an even bigger problem for fox if their logo is not on episode 7, 8 and 9 and all the spin offs.

Anyone thought about that?

If anything fox will be pandering to get in on the new trilogy whilst maintaining their contract presence on the old films.

Disney hold the power to do whatever they want and that is what they will do and fox won't put up a fight if Disney want to release the Theatrical versions that you can be sure of.

First though the theatrical versions would need a transfer and work there so that will come later on after episode 7 hits cinemas.

There is a whole generation of people who only know the Special editions though. So they know no different unless they went out of their way to obtain the original releases.

Basically Disney cannot make any money from releasing  a 4K or 8K special edition release because still most people cant afford the TV sets or have space.

The only moderate plausibly option of a money making re-issue is the Original theatrical releases.

Then the Cinema angle is re-vamped versions of THe OT with 3d bums on seats tickets with a release later.

Pile on the new films also which are priority where as the OT is interim projects for later.

Sure they can Package episode 7 with the 6 others but who is really going out to buy that? if they are a pre-existing fan... And with knowledge of the next 2 films also.

Yes, This is how I feel that we know the story and the films just fill in a blank before we get to the next part we already knew about. And with changes to what we already know of the back story. And the Blanks were never anything people really cared for.

Basically the PT could be told in a LOTR style prequel flashbacks lasting 20 minutes or under across the 3 OT films. But the style of the footage would pollute the actual master pieces with shit looking plastic fake footage.

So it's not needed the PT and never will be. But If a salvage were to be made of those few remaining "half decent moments" then they need to be retrofied to even look older than the OT like a historical segment.

I think Ben and Yoda story is the thing missing not Ben and Anakin.

Anakin should have come from nowhere really by chance but a lot later on. Not 3 films of Anakin no no no.

The Clone war, never even felt like it was a war it just felt like something going on and people fighting for no reason. There was no real justification that was dramatic enough that made me care about this war or feel any consequence for it occurring.

If you have a film set in WW2 say the focus is on how things have now changed. There was no change when the clone wars started it just kept going and nobody seemed affected by it.

If I may be so bold as to give my best guess...

We will get a Restored Original theatrical release on Blu-ray.

We will probably get a tweaked / revamped 3D release in Cinemas of OT with later 3D Blu-ray release

And we will also get the new films and spin offs. in 3D also

Disney want to get a return on investment. It's not complicated only when and how this will happen. They want to use the OT (more popular series) as a spring board for this money making exercise but I am sure they also want to cater to existing fans but also cater to new ones. They want their investment to work for them at the end of the day.

Let's just say Disney want to make their Star wars rights purchase a huge success. Right now though they need to make Star Wars theirs with the next installment of episode 7.

I saw Star Wars and ESB on Christmas UK TV first and Betamax (recorded) and also used to listen to raw recordings on audio cassettes of the films when I could.

ROTJ I saw in the cinema in Edgeware UK which no longer exists and after it had finished we stayed in the cinema and watched the next showing so I saw it twice in a row. :)

I saw all the prequels in the cinema too. Oh why did I keep going back for more

Those trees...I mean that forest now :D Is looking even better.

I know it's not finished but are you planning to add a bit more green to the roots? like moss in places?

I have also looked back over previous mock up of defined shafts of light shining through the Dagobah trees by others (not the team). And although I really think that effect is great I am not so sure it is exactly the right thing for the scene (to be very defined shafts of light) that is if you are going for recreating that effect from the theatrical version.

Anyway I have searched through many photo's to find a good reference and real world replication of the original matte in terms of sun and fog / mist and a subtle but beautiful lighting effect that is not "In your face". So I hope this can be of some help as a real world match

That is not a suggestion that is trying to be helpful. And I am sure you know what you want to achieve with the shot by now I just hope that is a good real world reference that can help you. But I am also now wondering If you are going for a real light source to re-create the original matte or do a green screen or perhaps combined both real and artificial elements?

It's going to be a tough cookie to keep Luke and R2 well defined and lit if you have a strong Back lit set by sunlight through trees. I guess the SE decided to give it a look more like the sun was coming from the other direction without altering the other shots. I think this x-wing shot will be tricky lighting wise If you go for re-creating the theatrical matte with a physical model. But this does get me excited for them.

sun is on the right on x-wing shot?

regularjoe said:

I tweaked the yads edit of RotJ.  There were three versions of it and I used the Boba Fett-less one for my main but included the sister act.  I set it up so that Yoda dies saying that there is another Skywalker but Luke doesn't know the identity until the end duel on Death Star II.  Vader senses Leia being shot via the Force and does the math about everyone's relationship and it is a revelation to everyone in the room.

 I like this Idea of Vader being the one to break the news... I can see how it will work too. Very nice idea. Hats off

The first fan edit I watched was ANH:R and it brought me too this world of fan editing. If anything It really woke me up on how films can be altered and improved for the better in ways I never thought about before.

In Hindsight there are a few "iffy" moments but overall it's still just a great alternative and a pleasure to watch.

I don't have an issue with revisionism because I believe that things can be improved upon continually.

Change for the better or for the worst is a personal opinion, but that is what fan editing is about. A person or teams interpretation of how something should be altered for the better to attempt to improve upon the actual film.

You may agree with one change and not like another because you are aware of the original material, but if you do your best to forget about what you have seen previously and treat the film on it's own merits that is what watching a fan edit is about. Watching an alternative version.

adywan said:

I've added a few lasers as they enter the canyon so the two shots blend in better than it did originally. I've also tweaked the canyon quite a bit since the clip was shown.

i think the asteroid shot is fine the way it is. There are slight time jumps throughout the trilogy.  I really don't understand why that shot would be a problem. I've never heard anyone complain about that shot since the film came out.

one thing i do have to say though is that it isn't worth coming up with any more suggestions for changes. The edit is locked down now. All that is left to do is finishing adding the models. No more changes or enhancements will be made apart from what is left to do.

 Great news, I am interested in what it will be like. Many people had concerns about the movement and that it felt slower the shot where the tie fighters collide.

Many people are also wondering which version you prefer the Ties colliding earlier or later?

Fair decision on the cockpit asteroid shot, what I will say is though you managed to improve all the other cockpit based shots by giving them more dynamic movement which look miles better than the original shots and add more continuity.

I think a fair description of what myself and others were trying to achieve by calling that asteroid shot in to question was simply regarding scale and movement and trying to keep that movement you have injected into the sequence going throughout.

It's a nice development when a line is drawn under something and things are now I suppose heading towards the final completion stages. Finish line is approaching :) Well done

Real looking Flames / small explosion when Dak gets hit? It is very brief but it sticks out bad, nasty coloration...

Any half decent free youtube explosion would be an improvement on the effect out the window I think... Has it been altered already?

^^ Yes Mac, that is how it works best

Thanks for bringing this up... I never actually thought about this until reading this.

It Would make a lot more sense if they would have fleshed out Yoda training Obi-wan and it still could have meant other Jedi were still new characters.

But the opportunity to develop those 2 characters a lot more was a missed opportunity. Much more history and lore could have been built on there relationship that continued throughout the 3 films yet they developed a character that they killed off in the first film (Dead End). Trying to repeat the Obi-wan death from star wars when they should have not tried to replicate the originals but focused on more character development that we Did know.

Oh well... Thanks Again for bringing this up.

I agree with this numbers of Jedi being a Small but very dangerous elite group but not aggressive.

Almost like a SAS or Navy Seal Team or something but in a magical religious spiritual sense. They sort out the real difficult bad situations in a way nobody else can in this fantasy world. And also a long arduous task that it would not be easy to earn the title of Jedi or Jedi knight. You would spend most of your life trying to reach that status.

In the radio Drama Leia specifically calls to use the ion canon on the AT-AT walkers but is told by an officer "They cannot target at this angle"

So that's something they did think about.

The Ion canon would have fired several blasts every time a transport left with fighter escourt because Leia tells them that in the briefing.

Although they had to evacuate 2 transports at a time as they knew the battle was not swinging in their favour.

Apparently many transports were actually destroyed, but we never got to see this.

ray_afraid said:

 I slightly altered your first line, but I don't think I changed your meaning

 lol :)

Something I wanted to give a brief heads up on. In the scene where Han goes to get Leia from the command center in ESB on Hoth there seems to be some radio background sound missing from the special edition that is present in the Gout mix just before cutting to the retreat (next scene).

Is there anywhere a full list of audio differences in the 8mm audio mix?

Something I think ROTJ benefits from is removing the whole Jealousy of Han... Let's face it, Leia frees him from Carbonite tells him she loves him and put's her own life in grave danger to get her man back. Han continuing to question weather or not she still fancies Luke is a drag and diminishes what we have seen previously.

I also re-watched J Davdar Building Empire again recently and thought about the restored dialogue of Leia in the falcon. "we've got to go back" and again "we've got to go Back" said with more authority over riding Lando's excuses about not going back.

"I know where Luke is" although it's an admission and explanation to why she want's to go back. As viewers of the film we don't need that explanation we know she knows where Luke is and I think it once again slightly out of character that although Lando has helped get them out of trouble he now seems only bothered to save his own skin or simply does not think about their freind Luke. So After he rescues Luke from on top of the Falcon then I think the group can accept him more that he is not such a bad guy and was in a awkward predicament and does not just care about himself but does really care about others also. Leia does not know him at all where Chewie and Lando have a bit of History probably why Chewie never killed him out right.

I like Leia Being dominant at the end of the film, I think at adds much more to her this line that she still has not accepted Lando fully.

@Darth Ender Ha Ha :)

You know me too well.... Funny how all those examples you have given are things I have taken quite a bit of time looking at and wanting to fix or pad out the timing flow better and capitalize on opportunities.

you have practically nailed my dream edit of empire (visually with a few omissions) although I won't talk about the changes exactly.

Perhaps I have a timing affliction :) Think depth, think scope and think a grander scale and being closer to time. It's where I am at that is what burns inside me for this film... I Can't help that.

I think people get pessimistic and put their preservationist hat on sometimes over making changes which could be for the better. But unless we try to explore some of the possibilities we can be none the wiser about how to make any improvement at all. But I will also except that sometimes an idea goes rotten before coming to fruition or simply does not work and is forced and damaging. Where as sometimes things fall in to place naturally.

I never said I hated it did I :)

Perhaps Arnold never needed to jump into the canal on his motorbike in terminator 2 we could have just cut to him riding his motorbike all of a sudden in the canal? we clearly saw him observe the canal that is enough we did not need to see him do that jump did we no... that achieved nothing at all.

Think Space car chase...It's about the build up to it whilst not changing the actual end result. Trying to improve upon the build up is no bad thing.

BlueCardinal said:

Ronster said:

Going back to the asteroid one last post on this. 

Just rewatched the asteroid field scene. I understand the perspective argument, but we don't have enough information to dissect the physics. You don't know how fast the MF is flying, whether the big one is stationary or moving, the direction or speed at which the smaller ones are moving, etc. We see the MF approaching "one of the big ones" through the cockpit, and then we see just how massive it is in the next shot. That's all we really need to enjoy the scene.

Could it be tweaked? Possibly by having it remain roughly the same size the whole time we see it through the cockpit. I've never had any trouble accepting it as presented, though, especially since it is only on screen for a few seconds before the exterior shot.

 Yes, you have summed up things well with your post here about velocity and so fourth. And this is a slightly grey area. But you see the position of that big asteroid is straight out the window and they are flying at it like a brick wall like they are going to crash into it. And it looks nothing like the next shot.

Then in the next shot they have suddenly turned 90 degrees to fly across it?. And it looks nothing like what they were heading towards.... All of this happens too fast without any plausible passage of time. Basically it's 2  random shots put together and they are at odds with one another. They don't flow into one another.

I can still enjoy the sequence it's not killing things but I sure would like to see it feel more connected and flow better. The team have brought this sequence up quite a few notches and this is one of the problems still remain. Anyway I think it can work better somehow not sure how mind although I have not the skill to do it myself.

Leia only kisses Luke to make Han jealous anyway...

Going back to the asteroid one last post on this.  Whoever on the team does those 2d but 3d scaled animations (layers moving at different speeds) first of all I want to say I think they are brilliant. I wish more films had them.

But I am kind of hoping that this can be fixed with one of those wonderful animations that you do as It seems all the elements are there for it.

But weather you use this technique to do a fix on it or not or choose to leave it as it is in the original film or tackle the issue another way. I wanted to share a couple of thoughts I had about approaching it in a 2D animation sense even if only for sharing thoughts and being inspired by some of these shots that I have seen you do previously.

Basically I was thinking about this 2d asteroid that has been removed from the film and ways of manipulating it whilst keeping the supposed big one also (less Jarring) but moving it about in the frame. But to cut a long story short yes twisting into frame was a thought I had on an anchored corner but also masking the edge inwards short of the actual edge and scrolling / rotating the surface through the mask to appear as though the surface is sliding against perspective but only slightly.

anyway I wanted to share that thought really about masking short of an edge and scrolling through a surface basically It's an interesting new spin (no pun intended.) And that does not mean either that I am asking for this to be done only a thought about 2d animation in general.

In terms of what the "Big" asteroid looks like or at least how I perceive it from what we see of it. To me it's like a remnant of an old planet surface that has been fractured / destroyed / obliterated and the top side that the falcon fly's over is like the once existing surface of a planet that has broken apart where it's underside and sides would be where it broke apart and it was once a part of something much larger.

About editing grammar and passages of time. Yes I agree that it's fair to show someone finishing their cup of tea or coffee and then then next shot they are leaving the door of their house. But that sort of editing grammar does not bode well in action sequences where we are meant to feel "in the moment" It all depends on what type of scene you are editing. In this scenario in a full on action sequence jump cuts are not the sort of thing you would introduce intentionally.

Jonno said:

It's inevitable really - a well-meaning invitation for suggestions opens the floodgates for those who, rather than pointing out actual shortcomings in the vintage visual effects, decide to start second-guessing the genuine craftsmanship of filmmakers at the top of their game.

Fortunately the actual work is in the hands of someone who well understands the difference between the two.

 It's not suggestions nobody is actually making any solid suggestions even myself.

That asteroid on the shot where Han says "I'm going in closer to one of the big ones" first of all. Looks nothing like the surface that they fly over in the next shot secondly if it was as big as the asteroid surface in the next shot it would get bigger a lot slower but also be much larger out the cockpit window.

That is what we are doing pointing out the short comings of the original visual effects. And trying to figure out a way of it to work better. I don't think anyone perhaps apart from the team... but even perhaps including them know what the best way to handle it is or just to leave it alone and do nothing about it.

No problem Metalmunki...

I started thinking about the way that they handled showing the deathstar as a massive space station...Getting closer and closer over various shots and although that asteroid is not as big as the Deathstar.

perhaps it is missing from this shot if you want to convey it is the big one without writing it off.

But the other issue is that we need to see a smaller object so we can put the "Big One" in perspective. It's missing the much needed external space shot of the falcon approaching something much larger. But that probably is either very difficult or not possible / worth it.

Perhaps the soundtrack can be cut at "closer!" said by C3-PO and an external shot used re-timing the music cue on an external shot but that is a dodgy thing as it may take the sequence too far from what we are used to... but it may also work. My gut says though cannot touch cue alterations in this bit.

I would say that to do it the same as they handled the deathstar shots would require the shot of the "Big one" put in the shot where it is missing (pictured above) and perhaps the 2D (adywan) removed asteroid on the shot where he mentions going in closer etc.

But I will say that if it can be made to work as it should it would be great. here is a quick mock up.

That's using the dodgy 2d asteroid :)

"That's no moon...It's a big asteroid"

Meet Lando

http://vimeo.com/103586338

Some restored Music and added the sound effect for the space train as it passes under the landing platform. Tried to extract the sound from the DVD menu this is the best I could do to retain the missing sound effect for the special edition fx shot.

Renegade Squadron

http://vimeo.com/103586290

This is Star Wars remember? It's a team effort the command center is in contact with the pilots right? Yes I remember... So I tried to get the feel of the original film back in to Empire Strikes Back like what we had at Yavin. It's the Hub of operations we hear the pilots over the PA on open channel so I thought I would try to fix that a bit. This is a small audio edit but I think it works to feel like you are still with the pilots even though you are in the command center.

Retreat!!!

http://vimeo.com/103600131

This is a good example of padding out an existing sound mix. I think it came out really well. It's the scene where Han goes to get Leia from the command center but the mix has been padded no more mute background actors and added sound for C3-PO. there is also a bit of audio from the theatrical cut which is not present in the SE on top of elements from the radio drama. I think I nailed this one.

muddyknees2000 said:

Again, there's NO PROBLEM. Can we please drop this and get back to discussing creative ideas for the edit instead of the FB page?

 Yes... Do Snow speeders use their tow cables to drag transports out of the Hanger?

I have no knowledge of the use of the tow cable apart from to bring down an AT-AT and I had this thought the other day that perhaps the transports needed towing in and out of the Hangers and perhaps were a bit cumbersome. Like domestic aircraft often get towed into Hangers.

I wanted to say that although I don't think Bingowings meant any harm with what he was saying I do honestly believe he had the best intentions. I don't think he really went about proving his point in the best way possible but It certainly was not a malicous attack.

Without flogging a dead horse here are some tips.

Your About Tab on the facebook.

It needs to better convey what the mission is. This should not only be about the Team but what they are striving to achieve. Why do this project? What is the History? For a new comer it has nothing to offer but an assumption that you already know about the previous revisited project. What is Revisited all about? a personal admission from the man in charge. If you are on a mobile the about tab is the first thing you read.

Quote articles that covered your previous project.

Your Videos on Facebook

So far the last few days will not play anymore for some reason. or at least for me.

Presenting a donation drive

Although the donation drive for the lens is primarily been about the Dagobah and Hanger set miniatures. The Hanger miniature would have generated more interest visually and been more exciting. Capturing peoples imagination a bit better. A bunch of trees although fantastically crafted does not have any showbiz about it. Falcon hanger does...

Fan engagement

You go in too quick for posting up your fixes and working towards the fix. Start with comparisons of shots from the original / SE / let people discuss the changes between the versions. Create awareness about why you are doing what you are doing This way some people will feel more engaged if they knew there was a difference in the first place. Yes honestly some people may never have seen the original films. This way the story unfolds and also is more topical. Make people feel a part of your journey from the start not just where you have popped in solution. Bad news is far more interesting so show harmful changes to the films... and put it up for discussion there. There is an educational element missing that most could / would need where some do not.

Although it all is progressing well, there is always room for improvement. This is what I think can be improved upon with the approach /fan page. The people there will do the rest I would hope.

But it's a constructive criticism overall I think it is good page but not sure why videos won't work for me there?.

It's nothing Majorly wrong let's put it that way. I think you are doing a great job overall.

Bingo stop over complicating the situation.

If you went to a cinema and when the film started the image was a small box in the middle of a large screen. You would complain about the size of the image and not only think it looked crap but that you would want your money back.

The cinema then goes on to explain sorry but we don't have the right lens.

Do you get it or not get it.

There is no way around an issue of this sort apart from the right lens.

Nothing complicated at all. and lens glass is the real sting because it's expensive stuff.

I appreciate you are a good supporter of the project and I don't think your intentions are ill but try to understand the situation a bit better. It's unfortunate but a reality.

And may I add anyone else who does not get it or has stupid fears.. Things like this fill me with more confidence than anything else that it's being done proper.